I'll be attending a class in Kundalini Yoga this weekend which will be a
new experience. My instructor has strongly reccomended it, having learned
kundalini herself. Her lessons (those I attend) are more Hatha with bits
of kundalini added though I don't know where the overlap is.  It looks
like kundalini adds the moving meditations and the mantra "Sat Nam".

My search for more information has included looking at various cult
databases in which 3HO shows prominately. So what do we know about 3HO
and Kundalini in general? A lot of the information is old. How are things
today? (I don't have any problems with my teacher or lessons)

I am assured that there is no mention of religion in the teaching or other
cult-ish tendancies. That the kundalini class will be a great experience
(it probably will). All new information gets thoroughly double checked
and sanitised anyway though it can take me time to process it.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com>
_/  _/    _/    _/
_/_/      _/    _/               Time is a one way street,
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                    except in the Twighlight Zone

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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:02:15 -0700, Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfield@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll be attending a class in Kundalini Yoga this weekend which will be a
> new experience. My instructor has strongly reccomended it, having learned
> kundalini herself. Her lessons (those I attend) are more Hatha with bits
> of kundalini added though I don't know where the overlap is.  It looks
> like kundalini adds the moving meditations and the mantra "Sat Nam".
>
> My search for more information has included looking at various cult
> databases in which 3HO shows prominately. So what do we know about 3HO
> and Kundalini in general? A lot of the information is old. How are things
> today? (I don't have any problems with my teacher or lessons)
>
> I am assured that there is no mention of religion in the teaching or
> other
> cult-ish tendancies. That the kundalini class will be a great experience
> (it probably will). All new information gets thoroughly double checked
> and sanitised anyway though it can take me time to process it.
>
>  - Richard
>

As an outside observer, it appears to me that almost everyone in the USA
claiming to teach "kundalini yoga" comes to it from Sikhism (which is a
religion, n'est-ce pas?), as does the emphasis on "sat nam" and various
shabd mantras. So I can't escape the feeling that what you're getting is a
kundalini-ish, specialized form or subset of Sikhism. Just my opinion, not
based on first-hand experience with them. None of the above would
necessarily invalidate the teachings, but to say that religion is not
mentioned seems a little disingenuous, at least to me.

--Don
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yogabare

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Richard,

I wouldn't be surprised if all yogis and yoga were considered "cult". I
have read well reasoned (from a Christian POV) discourses painting yoga
as the "anti-Christ".

The first thing I would like to know is what is your intention or
purpose for taking up the study/practice of kundalini?

> My search for more information has included looking at various cult
> databases in which 3HO shows prominately. So what do we know about 3HO
> and Kundalini in general? A lot of the information is old. How are things
> today? (I don't have any problems with my teacher or lessons)

A goggle/alt.yoga search on hari har, hari har+kundalini, might be
instructive. As I remember he has written some really good posts
concerning kundalini.  Hari is one of earliest and most well liked
members of alt.yoga. You can look on his profile, he is also the third
highest poster on alt.yoga. I believe he is also very highly situated
within 3HO. If whatever they espouse or teach results in people like
Hari Har then I think its great!

BTW, you might be able to take religion out of the pursuit or yoga but
you will never eliminate the God part. God (or whatever term you are
comfortable with, Void, Source, Higher Power, etc.) is the point of
yoga. Many people rely on religions as a interface with God, so you
will often hear religious over-tones in things yoga. I understand the
meaning and purpose of religion and I trust that God will lead me not
into temptation and deliver me from evil, so this no longer scares me
:-) I am even learning to appreciate and embrace the customs and
traditions of others, even though personally I have no use what's so
ever for religion. It's no wonder then that I have started my yoga path
as a Jnani and am working my way back towards Bhakti :-)

Trust the process! You'll be fine, I personally guarantee it :-)

Jared
o
^
I started with nothing and I still have most of it left..
www.omjaroo.com

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On 2006-07-20, omjaroo <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Richard,
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if all yogis and yoga were considered "cult". I
> have read well reasoned (from a Christian POV) discourses painting yoga
> as the "anti-Christ".

Yet I wonder about one day mixing the two and integrating my practice
of yoga into my involvement with my more christian community. I can
correlate a lot of my knowledge of yoga with my knowledge of
christianity.

> The first thing I would like to know is what is your intention or
> purpose for taking up the study/practice of kundalini?

My knowledge of kundalini yoga is very limited. I've been working based
on my experiences in lessons - so it would be more a question of "what is
my interest in following further the yoga that my teacher teaches?". In
that case, quite a lot. It may be that the lessons I attend are much
more Hatha than Kundalini and I would be happier with that path instead.

Or spend a few more years on just the basics, Yamma, Niyamma, Asana,
start Pranayama, without worrying about the deeper stuff. But then if
yoga is to be performed with a goal it would help to understand that
goal.

To be fair - the ramblings of what looks like one person are not enough
reason to throw the idea away. (All the cult database sites had a common
link in their ownership). It's very much one set of people's arguments
against another. Having not actually experienced a kundalini class it
really is too early to judge.

How integral to yoga are ideas such as kundalini awakening? It is not
something I've found much mention of until now and not something I'd have
personally thought necessary for spiritual fulfillment. "Calming the mind,
looking inwards, finding Samadhi" didn't contain any mention of quite
violant sounding bursts of energy running up the spine, or performing
actions intended to cause this. (I have seen mentions of gentle warmth
as an effect of meditation which don't sound so bad.)

It sounds in a similar area to the Sidhis I asked about earlier. Something
that may happen along the way. A lot of posts here and even articles
against yoga suggest that kundalini awakening happens.

> Trust the process! You'll be fine, I personally guarantee it :-)

I think the relative sluggishness of what can be called Shraddha for me
would cause that. It tends to spring back to its old shape very easily.
I am perhaps trying to shortcut the process a bit and learn a lot ahead,
which isn't so good.

Thanks

- Richard

--
_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com>
_/  _/    _/    _/
_/_/      _/    _/               Time is a one way street,
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                    except in the Twighlight Zone

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Richard Corfield wrote:
> On 2006-07-20, omjaroo <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote: 
>
> Yet I wonder about one day mixing the two and integrating my practice
> of yoga into my involvement with my more christian community. I can
> correlate a lot of my knowledge of yoga with my knowledge of
> christianity.
> 
>
> My knowledge of kundalini yoga is very limited. I've been working based
> on my experiences in lessons - so it would be more a question of "what is
> my interest in following further the yoga that my teacher teaches?". In
> that case, quite a lot. It may be that the lessons I attend are much
> more Hatha than Kundalini and I would be happier with that path instead.
>
> Or spend a few more years on just the basics, Yamma, Niyamma, Asana,
> start Pranayama, without worrying about the deeper stuff. But then if
> yoga is to be performed with a goal it would help to understand that
> goal.
>
> To be fair - the ramblings of what looks like one person are not enough
> reason to throw the idea away. (All the cult database sites had a common
> link in their ownership). It's very much one set of people's arguments
> against another. Having not actually experienced a kundalini class it
> really is too early to judge.
>
> How integral to yoga are ideas such as kundalini awakening? It is not
> something I've found much mention of until now and not something I'd have
> personally thought necessary for spiritual fulfillment. "Calming the mind,
> looking inwards, finding Samadhi" didn't contain any mention of quite
> violant sounding bursts of energy running up the spine, or performing
> actions intended to cause this. (I have seen mentions of gentle warmth
> as an effect of meditation which don't sound so bad.)
>
> It sounds in a similar area to the Sidhis I asked about earlier. Something
> that may happen along the way. A lot of posts here and even articles
> against yoga suggest that kundalini awakening happens.
> 
>
> I think the relative sluggishness of what can be called Shraddha for me
> would cause that. It tends to spring back to its old shape very easily.
> I am perhaps trying to shortcut the process a bit and learn a lot ahead,
> which isn't so good.
>
> Thanks
>
>  - Richard
>
> --
>    _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com
>
>   _/  _/    _/    _/
>  _/_/      _/    _/               Time is a one way street,
> _/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                    except in the Twighlight Zone

Howdy!

One thing to keep in mind..

No matter WHICH yogic discipline you are starting from,
everybody's yoga is unique.

The instructor doesn't have the last word!

The instructor can direct you in the general direction that
you need to go, but you must incorporate YOUR yoga into
your-SELF!

The most important developments will probably come
when you are practicing your yoga outside of class.

If you come to a split in the road, don't be afraid to explore
a bit.

If (when) you eventually come to a parting of ways you
say "Thinks for bringing me along this far." You then go on
your way until the next teacher crosses your path.

Dave

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On 2006-07-19 15:02:15 -0700, Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfield@gmail.com> said:

> I'll be attending a class in Kundalini Yoga this weekend which will be a
> new experience. My instructor has strongly reccomended it, having learned
> kundalini herself. Her lessons (those I attend) are more Hatha with bits
> of kundalini added though I don't know where the overlap is.  It looks
> like kundalini adds the moving meditations and the mantra "Sat Nam".
>
> My search for more information has included looking at various cult
> databases in which 3HO shows prominately. So what do we know about 3HO
> and Kundalini in general? A lot of the information is old. How are things
> today? (I don't have any problems with my teacher or lessons)
>
> I am assured that there is no mention of religion in the teaching or other
> cult-ish tendancies. That the kundalini class will be a great experience
> (it probably will). All new information gets thoroughly double checked
> and sanitised anyway though it can take me time to process it.
>
>  - Richard

Hi Richard,

It is too bad Hari is not here to respond to your post.  He followed
the 3HO and truly expressed himself in compassionate positive ways.  In
Los Angeles there is a huge 3HO community on the westside.  I went to a
3HO chiropractor who was really good.  He integrated yogic practices
into his healing.  He also integrated many modern techniques as well.
On the weekends he used to teach an asana class for his patients.

Clearly 3HO is a cult.  But cult really is a word that just means that
there a few followers following a single vision.  Christianity,
Judaism, and Buddhism started out as cults.  Recently, some sociopaths
have given the word "cult" a bad name.  We all should approach cults
with a healthy skepticism.  But as far as I can see those members of
the 3HO are kind, evolved beings who are working to help others thrive
in the world.

I have also had the opportunity to meet Sikhs in Los Angeles.  The
website http://sikh.net/home.htm is a terrific place to learn about
this religion whose roots started in Islam.  They do not practice yoga
and in fact they have been critical of Siddhas who follow Patanjali.  I
have had the opportunity to talk to many Sikhs who came to the U.S. to
escape oppression in India at the hands of the Hindus.  The culmination
of this oppression was a massacre at a Sikh temple in the 80's.

Apparently Master Yogi Bhajan used the Sikh religion as a basis for his
yoga when he founded the 3HO.  The form of yoga he teaches is quite a
bit different than the yoga one learns from other Hindu based
traditional forms like Iyengar, Yogananda, Satchananda, Muktanada,
Bikram and the like.   But, as I said before it seems to produce
positive results.  So who am I to judge?

We have a wonderful opportunity here in the west of having exposure to
many schools of yoga.  Take advantage this check out other schools in
your local area.  See what best resonates with your being.  It will
either strengthen your understanding of Kundalini Yoga  (a trademark of
Yogi Bajan) or help you see some of its weaknesses.

I know that after having Iyengar method training, I found it difficult
to use Kundelini form as the muscle mechanics and sequences were not
nearly as effective.  But that is purely my experience.  I am just an
idiot on the internet.  I highly recommend exposing yourself to other
forms and seeing for yourself.
--
~Stu

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On 2006-07-19 22:45:49 -0700, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:

> BTW, you might be able to take religion out of the pursuit or yoga but
> you will never eliminate the God part. God (or whatever term you are
> comfortable with, Void, Source, Higher Power, etc.) is the point of
> yoga.

Nirvana means "to extinguish".  No exceptions.  Even the god part.

The eighteenth century French philosopher Denis Diderot, when accused
of being an atheist, replied that he simply did not care whether God
existed or not. In response to Voltaire, he wrote that it is "very
important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not to
believe in God is not important at all."

--
~Stu

There is no "point" to yoga.  That is the point.

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I know that after having Iyengar method training, I found it difficult
to use Kundelini form as the muscle mechanics and sequences were not
nearly as effective.  But that is purely my experience.  I am just an
idiot on the internet.  I highly recommend exposing yourself to other
forms and seeing for yourself.

> ~Stu

Stu did you use the pranayamas during your Iyenger method training?

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