On 2006-07-19, Lawson English <LawsonE@nowhere.none> wrote:
>
> He who lives for the fruit of action only [i.e. *intended* goal], I ho
ld
> to be a fool. --Lord Krishna..

You have to be careful with logic reading that. One of my questions when
I read it was "How can this not be used by the people that go around
blowing up train stations"? Add to that the quote about not mourning for
the dead because their Atma will live on, and the one about the warrior
having the shortest path to heaven. I'm sure some terrorist organisations
would have a lovely time with the first chapter or so of the Gita.

There is obviously a very fine line which I don't think the Bhagavad
Gita answers determining when your action is good and when it is bad -
even if it does kill people. When is a terrorist a terrorist, or a freedom
fighter? (I think the answer is clear concerning recent attrocities).

Can the terrorist go to heaven/Samadhi, deluded or brainwashed into
believing that his actions are good and performing them with true
detachment - or are we heading into the tamasic worship/actions talked
of in the end chapters?  Of course "doing it to punish the west" is very
much attachment to the goal.

Can the person responsible for pressing the nuclear bomb button be Good
because they are detached from the fruits of their labour? The damage
from that action would be huge. We can argue that the world unfortunately
needs soldiers, so denying them their spiritual goal because of this would
be very unfair. The UK press are talking about the Trident submarines,
so there are people in this exact situation.

The criteria mentioned in the Gita look like a good balance. I
particularly like the fact that it's your _true_ inner intent at a given
time that matters. Some people joke about ideas such as repenting - "Say
100 Hail Marys and all will be fine" used to appear in commedy sketches
before we became politically correct. I assume that real catholicism
takes repenting a lot more seriously than the commedians portrayed them.

At the other end of the scale a priest once told me that it's pretty
well impossible to go to heaven as all sins over the lifetime are taken
and you've all undoutedly sinned at some point in this life. For this
priest every sin took you further away with no way of getting back - a
very bleak outlook. If we accept reincarnation then the last few years
of your life versus the last 80 years of your many lives makes little
difference on the big scale of things.

The Gita tells us that repenting is great - but it has to be wholly done
which I think takes a lot of effort. If you fall back to your old ways
you've obviously not repented. Those of us trying yoga can see the effort
that would be required over some time. The approach is very gentle -
kindly guiding yourself to prefer a better way rather than forced or
dramatic changes.

- Richard

(Saying hello to everyone in the world's intelligence agencies as that
post probably contains more special keywords than the old Emacs spooks
command ever produced ;-)

--
_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com>
_/  _/    _/    _/
_/_/      _/    _/               Time is a one way street,
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                    except in the Twighlight Zone

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Richard Corfield wrote:
> On 2006-07-19, Lawson English <LawsonE@nowhere.none> wrote: 
>
> You have to be careful with logic reading that. One of my questions when
> I read it was "How can this not be used by the people that go around
> blowing up train stations"?

Richard,

I can hear, understand and sympathize with your concerns about what the
Gita implies for you. You are certainly not alone in this level of
understanding. I wish to offer you this suggestion. I hope you will
accept it in the spirit of Love in which it is offered :-)

Do yourself a favor and "suspend" what you think you might know about
the Gita, about yoga and about "life". Open your heart and your mind.
Become "as a child" and listen, watch and learn. Learning something new
is a process. It is a process, as adults, we make slower and more
painful when we come to any conclusion that we know something. John
Grinder & Richard Bandler in, "Using Your Brain For a Change",  made
the point that as soon as we think we "know" something we stop learning
and establish a state of ignorance. Creating a state of openness,
vulnerability and acceptance and thus opening the channels to really
"know", is what concentration / meditation and yoga is all about. A
true antidote for fear. Fear being the only thing that can keep us from
"knowing" what is True. This is not a simple task, nor an easy one. It
is however the only "real" task we will/can ever have.

Rather then respond to your post, point for point, I will give you the
"end game", the "bottom line", the "whole enchilada" :-) This is the
secret to the Universe, the answer to every question and the only thing
one can ever really "know". Nothing less then the proverbial "holy
grail", affording the bearer all the power of the Universe. It's also
what the Gita (or any scripture eg. Bible, Qur'an, Tao Te Ching, Sri
Guru Granth Sahib, take your pick) is saying (albeit in a longer, more
drawn out way :-)

This is it. [insert drum roll here: berrratatatatatatatatatata..]

There is only God. The character of everything that exists (and
everything that doesn't) is in the nature and substance of God.
Everything everywhere is and as and of God. For example: God is Good.
Everything is Good.. God is Life, God is Love, God is Intelligence,
God is Spirit, God is Soul, God is Principle, God is Truth..
[reference: Emmet Fox, "Alter Your Life", The Seven Main Aspects of
God.]

If I know this then I know all there is to know and I can answer any
possible question about the "meaning" of anything. If I don't,  then I
don't really know anything :-)

There; secret of the Universe revealed (again). You and I can now go
about our life's and the pursuit of yoga without the slightest worry or
fear.. Well maybe not quite yet. After all, this is why we pursue /
study / practice Yoga in the first place :-)

Jared
o
^
www.omjaroo.com

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On 2006-07-20, omjaroo <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I can hear, understand and sympathize with your concerns about what the
> Gita implies for you. You are certainly not alone in this level of
> understanding. I wish to offer you this suggestion. I hope you will
> accept it in the spirit of Love in which it is offered :-)
>

Thanks for the advice. I suppose it is in my nature to try to analyse
things so much ;) Will try not thinking so much. Perhaps having a break
from all things yoga to allow the dust to settle.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com>
_/  _/    _/    _/
_/_/      _/    _/               Time is a one way street,
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                    except in the Twighlight Zone

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omjaroo wrote:

> Richard Corfield wrote: 
>
> Richard,
>
> I can hear, understand and sympathize with your concerns about what the
> Gita implies for you. You are certainly not alone in this level of
> understanding. I wish to offer you this suggestion. I hope you will
> accept it in the spirit of Love in which it is offered :-)
>
> Do yourself a favor and "suspend" what you think you might know about
> the Gita, about yoga and about "life". Open your heart and your mind.
> Become "as a child" and listen, watch and learn. Learning something new
> is a process. It is a process, as adults, we make slower and more
> painful when we come to any conclusion that we know something. John
> Grinder & Richard Bandler in, "Using Your Brain For a Change",  made
> the point that as soon as we think we "know" something we stop learning
> and establish a state of ignorance. Creating a state of openness,
> vulnerability and acceptance and thus opening the channels to really
> "know", is what concentration / meditation and yoga is all about. A
> true antidote for fear. Fear being the only thing that can keep us from
> "knowing" what is True. This is not a simple task, nor an easy one. It
> is however the only "real" task we will/can ever have.
>
> Rather then respond to your post, point for point, I will give you the
> "end game", the "bottom line", the "whole enchilada" :-) This is the
> secret to the Universe, the answer to every question and the only thing
> one can ever really "know". Nothing less then the proverbial "holy
> grail", affording the bearer all the power of the Universe. It's also
> what the Gita (or any scripture eg. Bible, Qur'an, Tao Te Ching, Sri
> Guru Granth Sahib, take your pick) is saying (albeit in a longer, more
> drawn out way :-)
>
> This is it. [insert drum roll here: berrratatatatatatatatatata..]
>
> There is only God. The character of everything that exists (and
> everything that doesn't) is in the nature and substance of God.
> Everything everywhere is and as and of God. For example: God is Good.
> Everything is Good.. God is Life, God is Love, God is Intelligence,
> God is Spirit, God is Soul, God is Principle, God is Truth..
> [reference: Emmet Fox, "Alter Your Life", The Seven Main Aspects of
> God.]
>
> If I know this then I know all there is to know and I can answer any
> possible question about the "meaning" of anything. If I don't,  then I
> don't really know anything :-)
>
> There; secret of the Universe revealed (again). You and I can now go
> about our life's and the pursuit of yoga without the slightest worry or
> fear.. Well maybe not quite yet. After all, this is why we pursue /
> study / practice Yoga in the first place :-)
>
> Jared
> o
> ^
> www.omjaroo.com
>

I just have to stress that Jared is not speaking of belief here, but of
true knowledge, and the only way to really know the truth of this is to
experience it. Yoga teaches us a way to reach this experience, and with
diligence and luck, through the grace of God, it can be reached.

S.

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700e

Thanks for the assist :-)

Nice to hear from you!

Jared
o
^

Sevenhundred Elves wrote:
> omjaroo wrote:
> 
>
> I just have to stress that Jared is not speaking of belief here, but of
> true knowledge, and the only way to really know the truth of this is to
> experience it. Yoga teaches us a way to reach this experience, and with
> diligence and luck, through the grace of God, it can be reached.
>
> S.

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