Thanks to everyone for their input on my first set of questions.

These questions are for different viewpoints, a good place to ask as it
seems there's a variety of different styles and schools on this ng.

How do you judge how much time per day to put into this?  I could spend
two hours just going through the positions and things that look
interesting, but I don't have two hours a day.

How do you shape or choose the exercises, movements and positions you do
in a day?  Do you do the same every day, do you go by how you're
feeling, do you go by your plans for the rest of the day?

Once again, thanks for your answers.

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

i'm pretty lightweight around here, but here's what i do.
i have a life, and i need yoga in it. it's all about balance.
i do a 1 1/2 hr class each week just to keep me in line and not hurting
myself.
i do yoga for 20 minutes each morning. i know that's not a lot, some would
say not enough, but it's what i can do and it makes such a difference to me.
i broke my hand this summer and due to a number of things, discontinued yoga
for about 4 weeks. i missed it every day. i'm rushing it a bit, but i'm back
into it to this week. i have a crisis i couldn't run from, can't seem to get
away from, and apparently can't face either, and i needed to do yoga just to
give myself a mini-break. i find just the 20 minutes has helped me regain
some emotional balance and physical well-being.
each morning my mini routine starts with getting my breathing in line, then
a few stretching positions - bound ankle, cat-dog/downward dog/hero's
series, then bridge, wind releasing, maybe a twist.  i sometimes do pigeon
pose, or the warriors. i always end with balancing. i take things from my
classes and work them in. sometimes i do the ones i enjoy, for fun.
sometimes i do the ones i hate, for challenge.
and i always do a forward bend with focus on breathing while drying my hair
upside down, and i do a imperceptible mountain pose while waiting for the
water to boil for my morning tea at my office.
works for me.
nancy

<apikoros@nonken.net> wrote in message
news:0f4di0lth4pprav0tkrmtkknqvdqjflnvt@4ax.com..
> Thanks to everyone for their input on my first set of questions.
>
> These questions are for different viewpoints, a good place to ask as it
> seems there's a variety of different styles and schools on this ng.
>
> How do you judge how much time per day to put into this?  I could spend
> two hours just going through the positions and things that look
> interesting, but I don't have two hours a day.
>
> How do you shape or choose the exercises, movements and positions you do
> in a day?  Do you do the same every day, do you go by how you're
> feeling, do you go by your plans for the rest of the day?
>
> Once again, thanks for your answers.

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Yoga is not only about asanas. You could be doing fine yoga practice with
just dhrana (concentration, focusing of mind) and meditation. Unless of
course you view yoga only as a set of excercies to keep your body fit, not
a way to become enlightened ;-).

Bhagavad Gita, chapter XII
(http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/bgita.htm):

"
1. Those devotees who, ever steadfast, thus worship Thee and those also who
worship the Imperishable and the Unmanifested-which of them are better
versed in Yoga?
2. Those who, fixing their minds on Me, worship Me, ever steadfast and
endowed with supreme faith, these are the best in Yoga in My opinion.
3. Those who worship the imperishable, the indefinable, the unmanifested,
the omnipresent, the unthinkable, the eternal and the immovable,
4. Having restrained all the senses, even-minded everywhere, intent on the
welfare of all beings-verily they also come unto Me.
5. Greater is their trouble whose minds are set on the Unmanifested; for the
goal-the Unmanifested-is very difficult for the embodied to reach.
6. But to those who worship Me, renouncing all actions in Me, regarding Me
as the supreme goal, meditating on Me with single-minded Yoga,
7. To those whose minds are set on Me, O Arjuna, verily I become ere long
the saviour out of the ocean of the mortal Samsara!
8. Fix thy mind on Me only, thy intellect in Me, (then) thou shait no doubt
live in Me alone hereafter.
..
12. Better indeed is knowledge than practice; than knowledge meditation is
better; than meditation the renunciation of the fruits of actions; peace
immediately follows renunciation.
"

So you could go the way of bhakti yoga, remembering
Krishna/Vishnu/Shiva/Jesus (whatever you call God) or jnani by constant
awarness of "I am That", "Brahman and I are One", "all is One". You can do
that whenever you want (no one will yell at you for practicing yoga on
company time, unless they will read your mind ;-), by constant repetition
of that effort you'll strenghten your mind, and as jogic law of association
goes - by constant thinking about a thing you could become it..

--
Brachman alone is Real. Om, Om..

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Piotr Neuman wrote:

> Bhagavad Gita, chapter XII
> (http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/bgita.htm):
>
> "
> 5. Greater is their trouble whose minds are set on the Unmanifested; for t
he
> goal-the Unmanifested-is very difficult for the embodied to reach.

I wonder if those are some kind of proto-Zennists? (Not a very serious
question, it seems, but I really wonder if some kind of Void-meditation
was around in the days of Arjuna, and if that's what Krishna is talking
about in this verse.)

Just thinking aloud.

S.

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Piotr Neuman <sikkh_del_@|del|wp.pl> wrote:

> Yoga is not only about asanas. You could be doing fine yoga practice with
> just dhrana (concentration, focusing of mind) and meditation. Unless of
> course you view yoga only as a set of excercies to keep your body fit, not
> a way to become enlightened ;-).

<smile> I've been waiting for this sort of comment, and thinking in the
last few days about what I'd write or say in response.

I'm not looking for enlightenment, or the process of becoming
enlightened.

My intuitive understanding of it is that there *is* no one true moment
of such, only a series of gates as though entering a temple - but that
first doorway is the one thought by others to be The Big "E"
"Enlightenment."

First and possibly last, this is about making the body healthier.
Looking at the pictures of people in complex and peculiar poses, I think
"Why is this an effective or desireable photo to show off a teacher, a
school?  What point is there to be able to hang around on your hands
with your feet crossed and a look of cheerful disregard of apparent
discomfort blah blah blah?"

It seems that as a person performs simple ones and progresses into the
more complex variations, they're making the body strong enough to
support its own self in a physical and healthy way.  If you're "into"
alchemy, you can use that context, with the phrase "as above, so below"
- meaning as the physical body becomes strong enough to hold itself
together, the physical sense of self translates into the emotional (as
I've experienced with certain exercises bringing out the hurts of the
past) and eventually (whether I want or seek it - or not) the spiritual.

This is probably a very limited viewpoint, and odds are that it's quite
wrong.  What do I know?  I just want to be stronger and more self-aware,
and wherever that takes me.. I'll see what happens.

I'm really not interested in becoming one with the universe or
whatever.  I'd rather develop the ability to become one with myself, so
if I ever happen to bump into the Universe I'll be able to distinguish
it from whatever Self is perceiving it.

That being said, meditation *is* a good piece of the puzzle, I recognize
and acknowledge that, because my transmission spins too fast to engage
sometimes, and my clutch could use some work. 

<snipped portion of the BG>

This is not an attempt to start a flame war here - this is simple
statement.  I'll discuss it if you like - I enjoy civil religious debate
without flames. 

In response I would say:

I have no desire to Worship, no desire for Faith, no desire for
Devotion.  I have seen that which leaves no room for Faith - Seeing
precludes the need for Faith.  I have no need to Worship.  Nothing of
importance to me seeks my Devotion.
..
> of that effort you'll strenghten your mind, and as jogic law of associatio
n
> goes - by constant thinking about a thing you could become it..

I agree *very* strongly with your last statement.    Too many
"neurotypical" people miss that point completely, or disregard it as
frou frou Bunnies&Light hogwash.

Thank you very much for your feedback. 

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Sevenhundred Elves wrote:

> Piotr Neuman wrote:
> 
>
> I wonder if those are some kind of proto-Zennists? (Not a very serious
> question, it seems, but I really wonder if some kind of Void-meditation
> was around in the days of Arjuna, and if that's what Krishna is talking
> about in this verse.)

I agree very much since Buddha himself stated that the goal of practice is:

"There is, O monks, a state where there is neither earth, nor water, nor
heat, nor air; neither infinity of space nor infinity of consciousness, nor
nothingness, nor perception nor non-perception; neither this world nor that
world, neither sun nor moon. It is the uncreate. That O monks, I term
neither coming nor going nor standing; neither death nor birth. It is
without stability, without change; it is the eternal which never originates
and never passes away. There is the end of sorrow."

"It is hard to realize the essential, the truth is not easily perceived;
desire is mastered by him who knows, and to him who sees aright all things
are naught. There is, O monks, an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated,
unformed. Were there not, O monks, this unborn, unoriginated, uncreated,
unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated,
created, formed. Since, O monks, there is an unborn, unoriginated,
uncreated and unformed, therefore is there an escape from the born,
originated, created, formed."

I guess Krishna just points out that concentration on Himself is much more
easy since mind has easier object to grasp and concentrate on, than to try
visualize/conceptualize The Uncreated which cannot be really grasped by any
mind (you can only Be That, not describe/observe That as if you were
separate, for more details you may visit http://realization.org/).

--
Brachman alone is Real. Om, Om..

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Sheesh your response is so long that you may really have some issues against
Karma/Bhakti/Jnani yogins (that's pre-classical yoga).

Just joking :-).

apikoros@nonken.net wrote:

> Piotr Neuman <sikkh_del_@|del|wp.pl> wrote:
> 
>
> <smile> I've been waiting for this sort of comment, and thinking in the
> last few days about what I'd write or say in response.

:-)

> My intuitive understanding of it is that there *is* no one true moment
> of such, only a series of gates as though entering a temple - but that
> first doorway is the one thought by others to be The Big "E"
> "Enlightenment."

That's My-ism imo (http://www.geocities.com/h2lee/genx.html):

"Me-Ism: A search by an individual, in the absence of training in
traditional religious tenets, to formulate a personally tailored religion
by himself. Most frequently a mishmash of reincarnation, personal dialogue
with a nebulously defined god figure, naturalism, and karmic eye-for-eye
attitudes."

Still joking :-) (that was a quote from generation x dictionary).

> First and possibly last, this is about making the body healthier.

I work out, swim and cycle for that end, YMMV.

> It seems that as a person performs simple ones and progresses into the
> more complex variations, they're making the body strong enough to
> support its own self in a physical and healthy way.  If you're "into"
> alchemy, you can use that context, with the phrase "as above, so below"
> - meaning as the physical body becomes strong enough to hold itself
> together, the physical sense of self translates into the emotional (as
> I've experienced with certain exercises bringing out the hurts of the
> past) and eventually (whether I want or seek it - or not) the spiritual.

True but it's the other way around too, a "healthy and focused" mind makes
you preform much better at sports. For example I noticed that meditation
improved vastly my dexterity and ability to push my body to new limits.
That's also why many eastern martial arts use concentration and meditation
techniques before and after practicing (not to mention chi kung(pranayama
in essence ;-) for controlling "the life force" with mind's concentration)

> This is probably a very limited viewpoint, and odds are that it's quite
> wrong.  What do I know?  I just want to be stronger and more self-aware,
> and wherever that takes me.. I'll see what happens.

Good attitude imo, no one is perfect or holds "all the answers". See what's
good for you and use it.

>  I'm really not interested in becoming one with the universe or
> whatever.  I'd rather develop the ability to become one with myself, so
> if I ever happen to bump into the Universe I'll be able to distinguish
> it from whatever Self is perceiving it.

I do not really understand what "bumping into Universe and distinguishing if
from Self which is perceiving" means :-).

> That being said, meditation *is* a good piece of the puzzle, I recognize
> and acknowledge that, because my transmission spins too fast to engage
> sometimes, and my clutch could use some work. 

:-)

> <snipped portion of the BG>
>
> This is not an attempt to start a flame war here - this is simple
> statement.  I'll discuss it if you like - I enjoy civil religious debate
> without flames. 

I do not enjoy flames too, nor did I expect such a "prepared beforehand"
answer ;-). There are many shools of yoga/hinduism/buddhism, go with
whichever you want..

I just think that bhakti or jnana yoga can be usefull to somebody
(hopefully ;-) so I mentioned it in response to your "A question of time"
enquiry. One of the biggest advantages of those yogas are that no one needs
to know you practice at all (may be usefull at times) and you can do it all
day long (if you're advanced then also when dreaming) ;-).

> In response I would say:
>
> I have no desire to Worship, no desire for Faith, no desire for
> Devotion.  I have seen that which leaves no room for Faith - Seeing
> precludes the need for Faith.  I have no need to Worship.  Nothing of
> importance to me seeks my Devotion.

You're not a person that would find bhakti yoga usefull then. But you could
study some Advaita Vedanta (jnana, for example
http://realization.org/page/doc0/doc0023.htm). Different people have
different natures and so different yoga/buddhism paths exist..

> .. 
>
> I agree *very* strongly with your last statement.    Too many
> "neurotypical" people miss that point completely, or disregard it as
> frou frou Bunnies&Light hogwash.

:-)

> Thank you very much for your feedback. 

Thanks too, I hope you'll have a really good progress in yoga (whichever
type you choose) :-).

--
Brachman alone is Real. Om, Om..

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Apologies for taking so long to respond, but respectful comments deserve
thought-out responses.  

Piotr Neuman <sikkh_del_@|del|wp.pl> wrote:

> Sheesh your response is so long that you may really have some issues again
st
> Karma/Bhakti/Jnani yogins (that's pre-classical yoga).
>
> Just joking :-).

<chuckle>  I wouldn't know pre-classical yoga from post-modern yoga.

 
>
> That's My-ism imo (http://www.geocities.com/h2lee/genx.html):
>
> "Me-Ism: A search by an individual, in the absence of training in
> traditional religious tenets, to formulate a personally tailored religion
> by himself. Most frequently a mishmash of reincarnation, personal dialogue
> with a nebulously defined god figure, naturalism, and karmic eye-for-eye
> attitudes."

Eeew.  Sounds like everything I hated about the 1980's Southern
California Crystal Weenies.

For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong with someone formulating
a personally tailored religion.  We could go off on discussing the
positives and negatives of that, it sounds like it would be a fun
sub-thread.  

> Still joking :-) (that was a quote from generation x dictionary).

The best humor is based on real life.  I lived in Orange County,
California in the 80's.  It's not too far from the extremes of "New
Age."  Put me off from ideas  that could have laid beneficial
foundations for living with life's subsequent stressors.
 
>
> I work out, swim and cycle for that end, YMMV.

I found just "exercise" wasn't enough.  Restructured my diet and views
on food and personal growth.  The body's not just a physical machine.
 
..<snipped my excess verbiage>..
[vbcol=seagreen]
> True but it's the other way around too, a "healthy and focused" mind makes
> you preform much better at sports. For example I noticed that meditation
> improved vastly my dexterity and ability to push my body to new limits.
> That's also why many eastern martial arts use concentration and meditation
> techniques before and after practicing (not to mention chi kung(pranayama
> in essence ;-) for controlling "the life force" with mind's concentration)

I'm familiar with that effect - more of my limitations in physical
activity are/have been mental, than physical.

> 
>
> Good attitude imo, no one is perfect or holds "all the answers". See what'
s
> good for you and use it.

Too long I didn't try things because the trying made me uncomfortable.
More lessons are learned from trying things that invade the comfort
zone.

> I do not really understand what "bumping into Universe and distinguishing 
if
> from Self which is perceiving" means :-).

Needs a little personal background.  I try to tell it in a way that
doesn't sound like whin(g)ing.

The culture of my upbringing (my mother's interpretation of it)
encourages females to nurturing to excess.  The "Yiddische Mama" was, to
her, the ideal of female life.  I was encouraged to think of others
beyond my own needs, and place the needs of others so far ahead of mine
that any sense of essential self was fairly crippled.  I still have a
strong tendency towards being chameleon-like socially and emotionally,
to my detriment.

Had things gone on more or less normally, I would have survived and not
noticed the lack, but then my younger child developed significant
learning disabilities. Sort of compounded things until there was nearly
no "me" left.  Really nasty place to be.

Lots of the personal work I've done since then has been by necessity
very self-oriented, which seems as far as I've read either contradictory
to the ideals of Yoga or, as I've read some tell it - downright
contradictory.  Once again, my understanding is probably limited.
 
>
> :-)
> 
>
> I do not enjoy flames too, nor did I expect such a "prepared beforehand"
> answer ;-). There are many shools of yoga/hinduism/buddhism, go with
> whichever you want..

Being overprepared is one of my drawbacks.   I like to hear about the
learning and understandings of others, it helps me see a wider
perspective.  I'm not a Hindu, nor a Buddhist.  Nor are either of those
goals of mine.

>
> I just think that bhakti or jnana yoga can be usefull to somebody
> (hopefully ;-) so I mentioned it in response to your "A question of time"
> enquiry. One of the biggest advantages of those yogas are that no one need
s
> to know you practice at all (may be usefull at times) and you can do it al
l
> day long (if you're advanced then also when dreaming) ;-).

A fair amount of what I've picked up is now also part of just
remembering to stand right, and bend right, and straighten right.


> You're not a person that would find bhakti yoga usefull then. But you coul
d
> study some Advaita Vedanta (jnana, for example
> http://realization.org/page/doc0/doc0023.htm). Different people have
> different natures and so different yoga/buddhism paths exist..

I wish more of the Western Monotheistic Big Three understood that
better.
 
>
> Thanks too, I hope you'll have a really good progress in yoga (whichever
> type you choose) :-).

Either I will or I won't - but that's for me to act on.    Thank you
again!

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

Piotr Neuman wrote:

> Bhagavad Gita, chapter XII
> (http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/bgita.htm):
>
> "
> 5. Greater is their trouble whose minds are set on the Unmanifested; for t
he
> goal-the Unmanifested-is very difficult for the embodied to reach.

I wonder if those are some kind of proto-Zennists? (Not a very serious
question, it seems, but I really wonder if some kind of Void-meditation
was around in the days of Arjuna, and if that's what Krishna is talking
about in this verse.)

Just thinking aloud.

S.

Report this post to a moderator

[  Post Follow-up to this message ]