> omjaram yazdi:
> Hi,
>
> There is neither time nor movement. These are constructs created by
> humans to help manage their existence on the material plane. In reality
> (think/meditate about it) there is only here and only now. The ability
> to know or perceive this is what I think Carlos Casteneta's, Don Juan
> meant by "stopping the world".
>
> Namaste
>
>
>  Dear friend..
>  Now you talk as if you are something but no HUMAN  Well NOTHING TO
> SAY if you say so..
>  But your way remind me a heart sutra..But there is also lotus sutra
> ..
>  Many people says a lot about NOW..But what makes NOW a NOW..That can
> be a question may be.
>  Then you say 'STOPPING THE WORLD'
>  there can be many meaning of this but I guess you mean DEATH ? then we
> should question LIFE? then what is all these?
>  Might be ACTION?
>  So when you write 'There is neither time nor movement'so what is the
> thing to make this sentence REAL?  or useful? or FACT?
>   I guess (think?) ACTION ?
>
>  NAMASTE 

lilashi,

Something really fun to do is to try to imagine where past begins, where
now is and where the future begins.

At what point does our now moment become the past? Now only becomes the
past when we remember it. That is, when we recreate it in our mind
(imagination) and we add it to another remembrance and another and
another and so on. Just like a movie our now moment is a single frame
(which contains all there is); a still picture. We store that picture
and take another and store it and another and store it. When we play it
back it appears to move and have time and it is linear so we say that
one thing happened before another; future, present and past. But the
absolute reality is that past has no objective existence and neither
does the future. This process of imagining and playing back is required
for the human vehicle to survive on this plane. But this also why it is
said that life is an illusion, a fiction we create.

When we stop the world our perception is in the immediate now, without
imagining/remembering future or past (a still picture) without time,
without movement, without distance or separation.

Then what is now if it doesn't move? Nothing of course! Absolutely
nothing! Or if you prefer, now is everything. Absolutely everything! It
is not about life or death because these do not exist any more then time
or movement. That I believe is the meaning of your Heart Sutra. The
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh has said that one can discover meditation in the
moment between heart beats or at that moment between when the breath
moves in or out. This is when everything stops and one can experience
the now moment.

What is the practical application of this knowledge or in other words so
what, What difference does it make? For most people it is meaningless
nonsense but for a jnana yogi it is of paramount importance. As the
jnani is intent on using the mind to root out every lie, illusion and
fiction possible so that what remains is the Truth or Yoga (Union).

Jared

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If you read my prewious writings in here I might say that I
understand 
What you write is what I experience sometimes when I practise tai chi
or suddenly for no reason..But let me add something on these
subject..Atime ago :9 I used to experience this often but then when
I thought of action then these two connected and become one..AS if you
stop..immediate action and immediate experience..and is you wish
then reaction then action ext ext..I had several strange experiences
like that..
As if I meditate and STOP! and immediate thought for instance a bird
then this moment bird appear and I think bird comes to my window and
yes it does!!!!!But the strange thing is I do not sit and wait for the
bird near my window..I practise tai chi on my launc with my eyes shot
and image appears I open my eyes it is there and then I think action
and it happens..Many happens like that..only when I really in deep
meditation..I do not talk about hypnose or sleepi
ng either..Real experience I mean..Thats why I said ACTION  is
yoga..
But yes being still(using this word instead of the word stop) is like
being aware of all the possibilities..being aware of all.. but if
there is nothing then it is nothing  if no action then there is no
illusion and movie  there for no reality..
I had an experiend 'have you ever been aware of your body takes no
breathe ? but still you are aware ? thats sometimes happens to
me..but now I am practising to close my mind on the same
time..Cause when I m aware of these moments sudden I go into deep
thoughts..and when I was aware of that then I stoped doing that..And
I know most of the times can use these moments for a deep rest for my
mind..and sometimes for projection of my thoughts into reality..
So as you know a lot about yoga  do you think I have correct
experiences ? cause sometimes I have daubts..
omjaroo yazdi: 
>
> lilashi,
>
> Something really fun to do is to try to imagine where past begins, where
> now is and where the future begins.
>
> At what point does our now moment become the past? Now only becomes the
> past when we remember it. That is, when we recreate it in our mind
> (imagination) and we add it to another remembrance and another and
> another and so on. Just like a movie our now moment is a single frame
> (which contains all there is); a still picture. We store that picture
> and take another and store it and another and store it. When we play it
> back it appears to move and have time and it is linear so we say that
> one thing happened before another; future, present and past. But the
> absolute reality is that past has no objective existence and neither
> does the future. This process of imagining and playing back is required
> for the human vehicle to survive on this plane. But this also why it is
> said that life is an illusion, a fiction we create.
>
> When we stop the world our perception is in the immediate now, without
> imagining/remembering future or past (a still picture) without time,
> without movement, without distance or separation.
>
> Then what is now if it doesn't move? Nothing of course! Absolutely
> nothing! Or if you prefer, now is everything. Absolutely everything! It
> is not about life or death because these do not exist any more then time
> or movement. That I believe is the meaning of your Heart Sutra. The
> Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh has said that one can discover meditation in the
> moment between heart beats or at that moment between when the breath
> moves in or out. This is when everything stops and one can experience
> the now moment.
>
> What is the practical application of this knowledge or in other words so
> what, What difference does it make? For most people it is meaningless
> nonsense but for a jnana yogi it is of paramount importance. As the
> jnani is intent on using the mind to root out every lie, illusion and
> fiction possible so that what remains is the Truth or Yoga (Union).
>
> Jared

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And I shall add  I prefer Zen budhism or simply tao..Cause when you
said jnani thats like a name  bt I have my name already and we are
not in the military and neither in any religious union,so there is no
jnani , saints nor any titles..
I do not really accept the way of Hinduism either..Cause I believe
everybody has got equal right for being alive..Cause we are HUMAN! So
we have to be human and of course we accept evolution but that does not
mean we kill everything around us to survive..We have other tools, to
create peace harmony..
I use the subject WE because of my politeness and kindness..I am only
talking on ehalf of myself 
Cause I think the way we think can be the same but how we act can be
totaly different  cause on the same time we are not alone in these
world..every one of us creates actions and we are not totaly free from
our actions among ourselfs..Tha creates dialectique and relations..
So..May be I have to give example..We use the same colours paints
even we do the same picture  in the same style and use same technique
but at the end all the pictures will be different  cause there is
many other factors in it..not only the way  MAY BE I have to finish
with saying from J.Khrishnamurti ..I some how respect him but I can
never walk the walk as him or same as him  Cause he is He and I am
ME..(or I)
Truth is a pathless land...
Sometimes even we do not live in the same time period and even we do
not know eachother we feel different for some people..Its like a warm
relaxing feeling all around us..or nice breeze..
Khrishnamurti's books..Dalai Lama's words..Puma's words and even if I
do not even see Puma's pic I feel close to Puma..
So you see feelings are important to create picture 

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Howdy lilashi!

"Truth is a pathless land"

Since most of us have not yet reached that land, we need a path to get from
here to the frontier. That path may be Tai Chi or Zen or Jnana or Tao or
whatever works for the traveller.

--
Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com


"lilashi" <lilashi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124741791.781220.199240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..
> And I shall add  I prefer Zen budhism or simply tao..Cause when you
> said jnani thats like a name  bt I have my name already and we are
> not in the military and neither in any religious union,so there is no
> jnani , saints nor any titles..
> I do not really accept the way of Hinduism either..Cause I believe
> everybody has got equal right for being alive..Cause we are HUMAN! So
> we have to be human and of course we accept evolution but that does not
> mean we kill everything around us to survive..We have other tools, to
> create peace harmony..
> I use the subject WE because of my politeness and kindness..I am only
> talking on ehalf of myself 
> Cause I think the way we think can be the same but how we act can be
> totaly different  cause on the same time we are not alone in these
> world..every one of us creates actions and we are not totaly free from
> our actions among ourselfs..Tha creates dialectique and relations..
> So..May be I have to give example..We use the same colours paints
> even we do the same picture  in the same style and use same technique
> but at the end all the pictures will be different  cause there is
> many other factors in it..not only the way  MAY BE I have to finish
> with saying from J.Khrishnamurti ..I some how respect him but I can
> never walk the walk as him or same as him  Cause he is He and I am
> ME..(or I)
> Truth is a pathless land...
> Sometimes even we do not live in the same time period and even we do
> not know eachother we feel different for some people..Its like a warm
> relaxing feeling all around us..or nice breeze..
> Khrishnamurti's books..Dalai Lama's words..Puma's words and even if I
> do not even see Puma's pic I feel close to Puma..
> So you see feelings are important to create picture 
>

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>Cause when I m aware of these moments sudden I go into deep
>thoughts..and when I was aware of that then I stoped doing that..

I think I know what you mean. When I let myself be very still I become
aware of thoughts (conscious) which normally I would not "hear" because
they are "subconscious". I believe the point of meditation is to hear
the thoughts at deeper and deeper levels until there is no more
subconscious thought and all thought is conscious. Then to suspend (or
let go of) all thought and directly perceive without the color of any
"mind stuff".

>And I know most of the times can use these moments for a deep rest for
>my mind..and sometimes for projection of my thoughts into reality..

Sometimes when I am still, I become very frightened.  At some point my
mind senses it is vulnerable, that there is somewhere it can't go or
perhaps can't come back from :-(  A sense of imminent death. Which "I
know" does not exist, but I am having a difficult time convincing my
body :-)

>So as you know a lot about yoga  do you think I have correct
>experiences ? cause sometimes I have daubts..

As far as I know all experience is "correct". I'm not sure what you are
asking. What is it you doubt?

Jared

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Daer Jaroo,
You totaly misunderstood 
Cause you are dividing my writting and trying to analyze it..Thats
wrong and strange 
I m reading my writting and trying to understand your understanding
from it..  Where I mentioned FEAR? Can you realy explain ?
Faer does not exist by it self 
There are things which makes it real  and thats ILLUSION 
omjaroo yazdi: 
>
> I think I know what you mean. When I let myself be very still I become
> aware of thoughts (conscious) which normally I would not "hear" because
> they are "subconscious". I believe the point of meditation is to hear
> the thoughts at deeper and deeper levels until there is no more
> subconscious thought and all thought is conscious. Then to suspend (or
> let go of) all thought and directly perceive without the color of any
> "mind stuff".
> 
>
> Sometimes when I am still, I become very frightened.  At some point my
> mind senses it is vulnerable, that there is somewhere it can't go or
> perhaps can't come back from :-(  A sense of imminent death. Which "I
> know" does not exist, but I am having a difficult time convincing my
> body :-)
> 
>
> As far as I know all experience is "correct". I'm not sure what you are
> asking. What is it you doubt?
>
> Jared

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> Daer Jaroo,
>You totaly misunderstood 

Did I ? :-)

>Cause you are dividing my writting and trying to analyze it..

Am I? :-)

>Thats wrong and strange 

Is it? :-)

>I m reading my writting and trying to understand your understanding
>from it.. 

An "I" statement. I like "I" statements better than "you" statements.

>Where I mentioned FEAR? Can you realy explain ?

You did not mention fear. You related what happens to you when you are
still. I related what happens to me sometimes, when I am still.

> Faer does not exist by it self 
>There are things which makes it real  and thats ILLUSION 

I agree..

Jared

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lilashi wrote:

>    If you read my prewious writings in here I might say that I
> understand 
> What you write is what I experience sometimes when I practise tai chi
> or suddenly for no reason..But let me add something on these
> subject..Atime ago :9 I used to experience this often but then when
> I thought of action then these two connected and become one..AS if you
> stop..immediate action and immediate experience..and is you wish
> then reaction then action ext ext..I had several strange experiences
> like that..
>    As if I meditate and STOP! and immediate thought for instance a bird
> then this moment bird appear and I think bird comes to my window and
> yes it does!!!!!

It feels like magic, doesn't it? This kind of thing happens when we are
very much at one with what is real, and I mean Real. In such moments,
how could we expect anything else than what is going to happen? It is
just a sign that your practice is working, it doesn't mean that you
summoned the bird, or created it, nor even that you imagined it. Don't
get too attached to this kind of thing, it is just a small thing, but it
has a potential to lead us astray, because it can make us think we are
great and important to get such unusual perceptions. Yogis who come to
this conclusion are hindering themselves from further progress, until
they think better of it.

Keep up your practice, it's obviously working fine, but don't get
distracted by those peculiar side-effects. They are perfectly normal.
Deal with them as with any real-world distraction.

S.

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