If I am teaching yoga for the purpose of God awareness/union; could I
dare charge? The Truth belongs to God (and therefore everyone in the
Universe). It is not mine to sell. If need be, I am happy to pay (with
time, effort or cash) to give others the knowledge that by God's grace
has been given to me. This is also karma yoga.

If I am teaching "yoga" for fitness, entertainment, sex or success
in life, then this is very different. I can charge or not because what
I am teaching is only yoga in name (a shadow) and not really yoga at
all.

If I know the Truth about yoga, and I am exploiting people's need for
Union with God by teaching it's shadow, then God help me. This is
what's referred to as the "dark side" of yoga and would be a sin of the
highest order. We've all heard of "fallen" or "false" gurus.

That being said, if a student gives a free and heart felt offering in
support of their teacher's basic material needs, then this is right
and as it should be. Personaly I don' think a teacher should ever ask
and anything above the teacher's needs should be refused or donated
to others.

There are no hard and fast rules here. It all depends on what one is
seeking in learning yoga or in teaching yoga. This is why we practice
yoga and strive to develop discrimination and wisdom.

Is this helpful?

Jared

Namaste

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"omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123442231.319961.9350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com..
>jared ?i've been thinking about this for a couple of days,

Ahh, a thinker. This is the hallmark of a jnani :-)

>starting with "of course you should charge". (the "you" being actually
>you plus any others who have taught me). i finally worked my around to
>"whether or not you charge, i should pay".

I appreciate your reasoning. I would agree. I think it is important for
us to take personal responsibility and contribute and pay our way in
the world.

>maybe its the capitalist in me that says you have something
>(knowledge, ability to instruct) that i want to benefit from. being
>responsible for providing for my own needs and wants, and not
>accustomed to just taking whatever i want or need, i pay.

Notwithstanding what I said above, sometimes I find one of the hardest
things to do is to "accept" a gift from someone. I want to pay them
in kind because I do not want to feel "indebted" to them and
therefore, vulnerable. This fear or distrust is a real poison in human
relationships. Because it disallows the person giving the joy of giving
as well as the joy of having a gift freely and gladly accepted. In
addition any inability to "accept" will work against us in our
quest for Yoga (union) because by its very nature Yoga is a profound
form of acceptance of the mental, physical and spiritual realms.

>there's another side to this to consider - if i want or need instruction,
>it ?>behooves me to ensure that its available. a teacher who is starving,
>or ?>endangered by living in the streets, or arrested for being naked in
>public ?>will not be available to me. i know this is selfish, but sometimes
>selfish ?>is reasonable.

Selfish? I would call that pragmatic :-) After all in the highly
developed nations there is little or no context for a teacher to
"give away" teaching as a fulltime avocation. Where as in India a
naked sadhu may be revered and cared for by total strangers, here as
you suggest they would be jailed and/or medicated :-(  The poster who
made the comment that he has taught yoga free for 30 years, still
required a paid job to support himself while he did so. I suspect that
is just how it has to be done here unless you align yourself with a
yogic community.

Implicit in this idea of supporting one's self while teaching yoga
has to be the question of whether one should charge to teach yoga its
self. Then that takes me back to; it depends on whether you are
teaching yoga in its original design as a striving for God Union or as
a commercial fitness, stress reduction or weight loss, product. But
then this begs the question, but what about the person who is attracted
to yoga as a "product" and as a result of practicing the
"product" becomes aware of yoga's true purpose? But for the
commercial product being available they might not have realized the
spiritual benefits.

Then again either the teacher is aware of the true purpose or they are
not. I still think, the teacher that is aware, ought not sell yoga but
rather support themselves in some other fashion and leave their yoga
teaching motives pure and resolute.

Bottom line for a "seeker" of Truth. If you are paying any more
then a nominal or cost basis fee for yoga instruction this is probably
not a "spiritually" centered program. I believe the Truth will
always be "free" in any regard and especially in yoga. As long as
"telling the truth" is subject to commercial concerns then there is
always the possibility (likelihood) the Truth will be bent for those
concerns.


> i'm still thinking about it. ?> nancy

Me too. but that's what jnanis do.:-)

Jared

Namaste


I think you should charge whatever you feel like. If people are willing to
pay a fortune, then charge them a fortune! You are not ripping the off, you
are giving them what they want for a price they are willing to pay.
Unethical? Unspiritual? I don't think so.

My Brother is a very successful hypnotherapist. He has just written a book
on wealth and abundance. When he was struggling to make ends meet, he
focused his energy of becoming wealthy so that he could use that wealth to
help other people. Now he can. He can use his wealth to gain life
experiences he could never have afforded. He can use the knowledge gained
from these experiences to improve his healing techniques.

The notion that you can only be truly spiritual if you are poor is nonsense.
Why should financial wealth be a success to be ashamed of? As long as you
are not emotionally attached to material items.

Get rich, buy a big house and a nice car, then give them away when you don't
want them anymore, that's kind of how he lives his life. He is a very
generous person.

Paul

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hbkta@aol.com wrote:

> I spent 10 months in India getting yoga instruction.
> There was no charge, no fee.

I believe you studied with an authentic Yogi, and a strict one at that.

> The students at the ashram paid the rent, utilities, bought the food,
> whatever material stuff that was needed.
> no money for such stuff passed through the hands of the Swami. He had
> food, shelter, and the clothes on his back. Materially that was all he
> required.

This is contentment, sometimes called non-hoarding, one of the Niyamas
in Hatha yoga.

> Materially he knew, without a doubt, that Brahma would
> provide what he needed.
>        A condition of the teacher training which he offered was agreement 
not
> to charge for teaching yoga to others.

Very proper and quite in accordance with one of the Yamas, the
non-receiving of gifts.

> I have given free classes for almost 30 years.

Excellent!

>        Thanks to Brahma, I have a cushy and secure governmeng job that all
ows
> me time and the financial freedom to do so.

I believe this is the best we can achieve in an Occidental cultural
context.

> Were I to choose to live
> the life of a "professional" yogi, I think it would be necessary to
> have the personal integrity and fortitude to embrace it all, material
> renunciation included.

As Patanjali says: "The success of Yogis differs according as the means
they adopt are mild, medium or intense". Nobody is required to go to
extremes.

Thank you.

S.

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Paul

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

The distinction I was drawing was between teaching yoga in its original
intent as method for God realization versus its commercial form as
exercise, etc.

>I think you should charge whatever you feel like. If people are willing to
>pay a fortune, then charge them a fortune! You are not ripping the off,
>you are giving them what they want for a price they are willing to pay.
>Unethical? Unspiritual? I don't think so.

Could that be the same reasoning the person who puts a gun to my head
and asks me for a donation, uses? After all I certainly "want" him
to go away and I am certainly "willing" to give whatever I have to
have him go away :-)

>My Brother is a very successful hypnotherapist. He has just written a
>book on wealth and abundance. When he was struggling to make ends
>meet, he focused his energy of becoming wealthy so that he could use
>that wealth to help other people. Now he can. He can use his wealth to
>gain life experiences he could never have afforded. He can use the
>knowledge gained from these experiences to improve his healing
>techniques.

I suppose this would also make his services more valuable, no?

>The notion that you can only be truly spiritual if you are poor is nonsense
.
>Why should financial wealth be a success to be ashamed of? As long as
>you are not emotionally attached to material items.

Each of us has to search our hearts and answer this question for
ourselves. There is no universal right/wrong answer. The following idea
is how I judge/guide my life and what I teach my children, in this
regard.

We are not our wealth or abundance or lack of it. We are whatever God
is. To the extent that we "realize" and understand this we are
wealthy. To the extent that we do not we are impoverished.
Doesn't matter how much/little money we have.

>Get rich, buy a big house and a nice car, then give them away when you
>don't want them anymore, that's kind of how he lives his life. He is a very
>generous person.

Is there a list I can get on for that donation? :-)

Jared

Namaste

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I know of an organization that teaches Yoga (asanas). You are required
to pay $100, but it is accepted as a donation.

But the spiritual aspects of Yoga are taught free of charge. Usually,
classes are held every week.


William Lee
http://www.PainRelief-Meditation-Yoga.com
"How To Overcome Pain Thru The POWER Of Meditation"
(Due to graphic images, viewer discretion is advised.)


omjaroo wrote:
> If I am teaching yoga for the purpose of God awareness/union; could I
> dare charge? The Truth belongs to God (and therefore everyone in the
> Universe). It is not mine to sell. If need be, I am happy to pay (with
> time, effort or cash) to give others the knowledge that by God's grace
> has been given to me. This is also karma yoga.
>
> If I am teaching "yoga" for fitness, entertainment, sex or success
> in life, then this is very different. I can charge or not because what
> I am teaching is only yoga in name (a shadow) and not really yoga at
> all.
>
> If I know the Truth about yoga, and I am exploiting people's need for
> Union with God by teaching it's shadow, then God help me. This is
> what's referred to as the "dark side" of yoga and would be a sin of the
> highest order. We've all heard of "fallen" or "false" gurus.
>
> That being said, if a student gives a free and heart felt offering in
> support of their teacher's basic material needs, then this is right
> and as it should be. Personaly I don' think a teacher should ever ask
> and anything above the teacher's needs should be refused or donated
> to others.
>
> There are no hard and fast rules here. It all depends on what one is
> seeking in learning yoga or in teaching yoga. This is why we practice
> yoga and strive to develop discrimination and wisdom.
>
> Is this helpful?
>
> Jared
>
> Namaste

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Would that be a week-long class or 1 class every 7 days?

--
Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com


"Pain Relief Meditation Yoga" <painrelief_meditation_yoga@yahoo.com> wrote
in message news:1123799564.828621.184440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com..
> I know of an organization that teaches Yoga (asanas). You are required
> to pay $100, but it is accepted as a donation.
>
> But the spiritual aspects of Yoga are taught free of charge. Usually,
> classes are held every week.
>
>
> William Lee
> http://www.PainRelief-Meditation-Yoga.com
> "How To Overcome Pain Thru The POWER Of Meditation"
> (Due to graphic images, viewer discretion is advised.)
>
>
> omjaroo wrote: 
>

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[  Post Follow-up to this message ]

> Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>
> The distinction I was drawing was between teaching yoga in its original
> intent as method for God realization versus its commercial form as
> exercise, etc.

I still think you should not beat yourself up regarding charging to teach
either of these. You are enhancing the quality of an individuals life,
therefore enhancing all of our lives, you are providing a flow of
energy.money is also a flow of energy. Would you feel guilty if someone
hugged you and said they loved you at the end of a teaching session? Why
should you feel any different if they gave you cash? Each is an expression
of gratitude. If you gave honestly and they received happily what's the
problem? Don't you want your children experience quality of life materially
AND spiritually? I would love fly my children first class to a Himalayan
retreat to learn humility. I would hope that the experience of such a
juxtaposition would enable them decide what is important and what is not. I
do not wish to impose my ideals on my children, but I would like to have the
wealth and opportunity to creatively demonstrate my ideals. Wealth can give
one the opportunity to lead by example. You don't 'have' to be an arsehole
to be a billionaire.


> 
>
> Could that be the same reasoning the person who puts a gun to my head
> and asks me for a donation, uses? After all I certainly "want" him
> to go away and I am certainly "willing" to give whatever I have to
> have him go away :-)

It would only be the 'same reasoning' if you explicitly asked the person to
point a gun at your head. Are you intending to round people up and force
them to practice Yoga at gunpoint?

 
>
> I suppose this would also make his services more valuable, no?

Indeed.

 
>
> Each of us has to search our hearts and answer this question for
> ourselves. There is no universal right/wrong answer. The following idea
> is how I judge/guide my life and what I teach my children, in this
> regard.
>
> We are not our wealth or abundance or lack of it. We are whatever God
> is. To the extent that we "realize" and understand this we are
> wealthy. To the extent that we do not we are impoverished.
> Doesn't matter how much/little money we have.

Absolutely! If you do not dwell on how much money you or I  have, you
eliminate any negative thoughts surrounding money. You are then free to
become abundant.


 
>
> Is there a list I can get on for that donation? :-)

I'll see what I can do.

;o)

Paul

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>
> Excellent!
> 
>
> I believe this is the best we can achieve in an Occidental cultural
> context.


I'm sorry, but this is nonsense! So thanks to a 'cushy' government job you
can teach Yoga for free and feel good about yourself and all the other Yogis
can pat you on the back and tell you that you are adhering to the Niyamas.
What a load of bollocks!

I am I the only one here appalled by this self gratifying post?

Paul

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Paul H wrote:

> 
>
>
> I'm sorry, but this is nonsense! So thanks to a 'cushy' government job you
> can teach Yoga for free and feel good about yourself and all the other Yog
is
> can pat you on the back and tell you that you are adhering to the Niyamas.
> What a load of bollocks!
>
> I am I the only one here appalled by this self gratifying post?
>
> Paul

I wasn't aware of being self gratifying. Not any more than usual :-)

I wanted to congratulate hbkta on being so lucky as to be able to do the
things he do. This doesn't mean that I have forgotten the less lucky,
and how they must make compromises they might not be entirely happy
with.

In the west, today, time and place are almost always paid for. This was
less the case long ago, when yoga was first discovered (I'm assuming
that it's prehistoric). I personally feel that it would be best if yoga
could be free for all, but at the same time it is obvious to me that
compromises have to be made, rents have to be paid, any full-time
teachers have to eat, etc. The nature and extent of such compromise must
of course be decided by each individual. What hbkta does is not an
unbending rule that must be followed by all. Yet I'm very glad that he
has found a way to teach yoga for free, and I can't find fault with
that.

We are taught many things for free.

I didn't pay to learn how to ride a bicycle or how and when to kiss a
girl, these things I learned for free at one time or another. My mother
took some pains to teach me some table manners when I was a child, but
she hasn't billed me for it yet. Maybe she did it out of love for me,
or maybe for love of table manners, but there was never a question of
money.

Perhaps hbkta teaches yoga for free out of love for mankind or for love
of yoga.

S.

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>
> Perhaps hbkta teaches yoga for free out of love for mankind or for love
> of yoga.

No. He teaches it because the tax that I pay the state affords him the
luxury to teach Yoga for free, therefore **I** pay him to teach Yoga. He is
doing no one any favours. I would rather he got a proper job as opposed to
his "cushy" government job and charged for his time when he is
'enlightening' people.

I think your opinion on this is rather hypocritical: on one hand he takes
from society (with contempt) but hey, that's OK as long as he provides free
Yoga!

I have worked closely with Civil servants and I am regularly appalled at the
time and money the majority of them waste. To praise someone who effectively
brags about his cushy civil service life is as shocking and ignorant as the
as the perpetrator!

Remember, his cushy existence, at our taxpaying expense, means that other
people suffer or die due to a lack of money once all the civil servants have
pissed it up the wall.

Paul

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