Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organiza
tion.
When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
zone.

But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
seemed wacko.

I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
techniques but I have done a bit.

Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.

--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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Joey Goldstein wrote:
> Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organi
zation.
> When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
> extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
> zone.
>
> But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
> saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
> seemed wacko.
>
> I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
> techniques but I have done a bit.
>
> Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
> could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
>

Hey there Joey  

TM, eh? Hmmmm ..  be careful is all I can say.  From what I've read, it's
considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras and can af
fect
the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels ( think that's what it 
is
called ).  They also believe they can 'fly' in the higher levels.

I'm no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to learn it
about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for the first
level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ).  This is merely *my* opinion and
 not
fact.  Have a look through Google with:

http://tinyurl.com/dgetk

and you'll see what I mean; highlights being:

http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <--- *Important!*
http://www.trancenet.org/
http://www.suggestibility.org/

You can believe what you will.  Just trying to forewarn you in case of any
possible dangers    I'd hate to think that my inaction helped someone to
become hurt ..

Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM.



Smile for no reason!
Shane-o  =]

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On 2005-07-24 18:54:41 -0700, Joey Goldstein <nospam@nowhere.net> said:

>
> Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM
> organization.
> When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
> extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
> zone.
> But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
> saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
> seemed wacko.
>
> I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
> techniques but I have done a bit.
>
TM is very traditional meditation.

> Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
> could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
>

I have been practicing TM for about 30 years.   Its been a very good
run.  The organization is nutty, but the basic technique is good.  It
truly comes from a traditional Indian system.  The way it is taught is
highly monitored to make sure the subtle practice is passed on
correctly. You may want to contact someone in your area and get
"checked".  It is free, and will get you on back on your practice.
There is an 800 number at TM.org

As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get.  It is
meditation as taught in the Sankara tradition.  A system that has been
passed on from master to student for several millennia.  It is a mantra
form of meditation.  There are other forms of meditation.  Most of them
have Buddhist roots.  There is a very good web site that will give you
a taste of other techniques, http://www.wildmind.org/  It is run by a
Buddhist monk.  He is a little down on TM.

Another teacher of the Sankara tradition is Swami Muktananda.  He has a
cult (used in the good way) in the US.  One of his followers is Sally
Kempton.  She has a terrific book on meditation called "The Heart of
Meditation".  She travels around and gives workshops.  I went to one -
it was excellent.  http://www.sallykempton.com  Although she has no
direct relation with the TM org, she has no problem with it.  We got
along very well at the workshop.

Be careful about the Web sites on TM.  They are filled with a lot of
misinformation.  Usually they are run be people with hidden agendas.
Some are fundamentalist Christians who think TM and yoga in general is
evil.  Others are people who came into the organization looking for
something the organization didn't provide.  They have an axe to grind.

The TM organization is very bizarre.  Part of that is because Maharishi
runs the organization from the top down.  He is not good at running
organizations.  He is very good at teaching meditation and talking
about the mechanics of consciousness.  He is one of the few Guru types
out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with
students.

I highly suggest you go for free "checking"  you may find that is
enough to get you going again.  The trick is to make the practice a
habit.  You are very fortunate to have been initiated.  Use it as a
base line to understand other techniques that are out there.
--
~Stu

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On 2005-07-24 20:30:08 -0700, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> said:

> Joey Goldstein wrote: 
> Hey there Joey  
>
>   TM, eh? Hmmmm ..  be careful is all I can say.  From what I've read,
> it's considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras
> and can affect the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels (
> think that's what it is called ).  They also believe they can 'fly' in
> the higher levels.
>
>   I'm no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to
> learn it about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for
> the first level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ).  This is merely
> *my* opinion and not fact.  Have a look through Google with:
>
>     http://tinyurl.com/dgetk
>
Why did you feel a need to hide your search as TM Cult Danger?
How about a search for "TM peaceful form of yoga".  Or do a pubmed
search on TM.  You will find thousands of research articles that have
proven TM to have fantastic health benefits.

http://www.freep.com/news/education/tm5_20030605.htm
http://www.rxtm.co.nz/cardiovascula..art_failure.htm
http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7433
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psych..i
on.htm

Over

the last 40 years there have been many independent studies of the
effects of TM.  I have not seen one that showed any danger.


Look carefully at who is putting up these anti-TM sites.  Most are
Christian groups.  More often then not they are disgruntled student who
did not get what they were looking for out of the organization.


and you'll see what I mean; highlights being:
>
>     http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <--- *Important!*
>     http://www.trancenet.org/
>     http://www.suggestibility.org/
>
>   You can believe what you will.  Just trying to forewarn you in case
> of any possible dangers    I'd hate to think that my inaction helped
> someone to become hurt ..
>
> What dangers are those?  I have known thousands of people who have
> practiced TM.  I have never known anyone to be hurt by closing there
> eyes and thinking a mantra.


Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM.
>
> TM is yoga.  It is a technique clearly described by Patanjali in the
> Yoga Sutras.




Smile for no reason!
> Shane-o  =]
>
> Why do you want to spread this venom?
--
~Stu

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Thanks for writing Stu.

Stu wrote:
>
>
> As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get.

Hmm. Most of the yoga books I've read have meditations where you monitor
your breath or concentrate on the light from a candle or on some
particular thought with an actual meaning. The only other mantra
meditations I've read about seem to involve actually making the sound of
the mantra, vocally (eg. "OM"), which again is tied up with the breath.
TM appears to be unique in that the mantra is simply a thought, and a
meaningless thought at that, and does not need to be tied to any
rhythmic cycle in its repetitions.

I know there is a lot of baggage attached to the TM teacher's
assignation of the mantra.
As a TM practitioner ("follower"?) of many years, Stu, how do you feel
about this?
There was a guy (Eli Bay?) who was teaching a de-mystified version of TM
called The Relaxation Response and he simply replaced the Hindu mantras
with the word "one".
Do you think that this mantra can be as effective as the ones assigned
by the TM people?
If not, then why?

> The TM organization is very bizarre.  Part of that is because Maharishi
> runs the organization from the top down.  He is not good at running
> organizations.  He is very good at teaching meditation and talking
> about the mechanics of consciousness.  He is one of the few Guru types
> out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with
> students.
>
> I highly suggest you go for free "checking"  you may find that is
> enough to get you going again.  The trick is to make the practice a
> habit.  You are very fortunate to have been initiated.  Use it as a
> base line to understand other techniques that are out there.
> --
> ~Stu

I'd rather stay away from the "organization" at this point.
Practicing TM is not a high priority for me right now so I don't think
I'll be going in for any "checking" any time soon. The technique's not
really all that hard to remember anyway.

--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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Stu wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> On 2005-07-24 20:30:08 -0700, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> said:
> 
> Why did you feel a need to hide your search as TM Cult Danger?
> How about a search for "TM peaceful form of yoga".  Or do a pubmed
> search on TM.  You will find thousands of research articles that have
> proven TM to have fantastic health benefits.
>
> http://www.freep.com/news/education/tm5_20030605.htm
> http://www.rxtm.co.nz/cardiovascula..art_failure.htm
>
> http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7433
> http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psych..br />
tion.htm
>
>
> Over
> the last 40 years there have been many independent studies of the
> effects of TM.  I have not seen one that showed any danger.
>
>
> Look carefully at who is putting up these anti-TM sites.  Most are
> Christian groups.  More often then not they are disgruntled student who
> did not get what they were looking for out of the organization.
>
>
> and you'll see what I mean; highlights being:
> 
>
>
>
>  Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM.
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> Smile for no reason!
> 

Greetings Stu  

Seriously man, relax.  Please don't take my opinion so seriously/personally.
I'm not attacking TM, although it may have come across that way  <sigh>

I said at the start that I am no expert in relation to TM and have never
practised it.  I also mentioned:

<Quote>
You can believe what you will.  Just trying to forewarn you in case of any
possible dangers    I'd hate to think that my inaction helped someone to
become hurt ..
</Quote>

Notice that I did not say that TM is dangerous or that you will die from it,
just that there /may/ be possible dangers.  The possible dangers are mention
ed
on trancenet.org.

How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question.  Do you do asanas in TM?

You said "Why spread this venom?"  I already answered that in the above quot
e.
Plus, I did not consider it "venom", just another side to a story that may o
r
may not be true.  You seem to consider it "venom" because you do not know an
y
person with any problems from it, so see the articles as illogical.  I can
understand that  

Look, I get the feeling from your post that you're not impressed with me rig
ht
now.  My apologies if I am wrong, seriously.  I'm not afraid to say sorry if
shown that I am wrong.

Also, thanks for the other links.  I do know of the related health benefits 
of
TM.  A lot of these benefits were mentioned when I went to the TM Centre her
e in
Australia.

Do you still hate me?  



Smile for no reason
Shane-o  =]

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Absolutely it is a cult.  Just get some books on traditional
meditation.

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tracym@askme.net wrote:

> Absolutely it is a cult.  Just get some books on traditional
> meditation.

G'day Tracy  

Could you please explain why you have come to that conclusion? I honestly wa
nt
to know.  I've read a lot of good about it and a lot of bad ( sorry Stu ).
Opinions are great and I'd like yours  



Smile for no reason! Go on, do it  
Shane-o  =]

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On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:47:11 GMT, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> wrote:

>tracym@askme.net wrote:
> 
>
>G'day Tracy  
>
>  Could you please explain why you have come to that conclusion? I honestly
 want
>to know.  I've read a lot of good about it and a lot of bad ( sorry Stu ).
>Opinions are great and I'd like yours  

I've read enough testimonials from survivors of that cult, on the web.
When cults say:  Oh, don't believe it,  that's just sour grapes, well.
I would only believe *that*  if I know the person saying it
personally, and trust their opinion, and that person knows the one
who criticizes the cult personally, and knows for a fact that the
person has an ulterior motive.

It happens all too often -  what else could a cult do,   to minimize
the bad effect of the truth getting out?  Dismiss it out of hand.
exactly.

try rickross.com - that is one place where they have some info
about TM as a cult:

http://www.rickross.com/groups/tm.html

tracy

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What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a
congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values?

tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:47:11 GMT, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> wrote:
> 
>
> I've read enough testimonials from survivors of that cult, on the web.
> When cults say:  Oh, don't believe it,  that's just sour grapes, well.
> I would only believe *that*  if I know the person saying it
> personally, and trust their opinion, and that person knows the one
> who criticizes the cult personally, and knows for a fact that the
> person has an ulterior motive.
>
> It happens all too often -  what else could a cult do,   to minimize
> the bad effect of the truth getting out?  Dismiss it out of hand.
> exactly.
>
> try rickross.com - that is one place where they have some info
> about TM as a cult:
>
> http://www.rickross.com/groups/tm.html
>
> tracy

--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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