Howdy!

I have often heard of "yoga mysticism" but I have never encountered
it.

Is that just due to my ignorance of the Yoga Sutras and Upanashads?

OR..

Is  "mysticism" just a term used by outsiders who are unfamilier with
the very specific terminology that covers the different states of
"internal awareness" that a person usually does not encounter unless
they practice yoga themselves?


--
howdydave
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org

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howdydave wrote:
> Howdy!
>
> I have often heard of "yoga mysticism" but I have never encountered
> it.
>
> Is that just due to my ignorance of the Yoga Sutras and Upanashads?
>
> OR..
>
> Is  "mysticism" just a term used by outsiders who are unfamilier with
> the very specific terminology that covers the different states of
> "internal awareness" that a person usually does not encounter unless
> they practice yoga themselves?
>
>

I also have never encountered it. Generally, those I've met who were "in
to" some sort of mysticism were actually in love with the idea of
secret knowlede. Some how, for them, the idea that some group or diety
or secret society had the final answer that would explain everything was
satisfying. They didn't need to be privy to that secret, just wanted to
know that it was there.

Strange notions, if you're asking me.

David

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> Howdy!
>
> I have often heard of "yoga mysticism" but I have never encountered
> it.


Mysticism, relates to that which can be known but not necessarily
demonstrated, proven, or explained. Yoga deals with lots of that stuff.
Virtually none of it is secret but few people invest the time and effort
to learn it. Much of it can not be learned intellectually and must be
experienced. Hence it remains a mystery and the people who experience it
are mystics and the discussion of it is termed mysticism.


This is also why no single yoga is suited to everyone. There are
different yoga foundations for different personality types. Which speaks
to another comment I wanted to address concerning jnanis. Jnana is the
yoga path of wisdom, knowledge and use of the mind to transcend the
mind. It is suited to people for whom reasoning, didactics, and all
manner of intellectual inquiry for the truth is strong. Karma yoga for
people of action and those whose passion is to serve, bhakti for whom
love and adoration of God is paramount.  As one dives deeper and deeper
into the internal environment the differing yogas come closer and closer
to each other until at a point they all merge into ? You guessed it,
Yoga.

There are a number of jnanis who are regulars in alt.yoga. You can
probably pick them out by the tone of their comments. Stu, Puma, MikeD,
Christopher Calder, JD, blacknblue, HB, Wade, to name a few. Jnana is
less about a prescribed discipline and more about a relentless and
merciless seeking after the truth, to the point of trading life itself
if need be.

> Is that just due to my ignorance of the Yoga Sutras and Upanashads?

It would be helpful for a jnani to read/read about these.

> OR..
>
> Is  "mysticism" just a term used by outsiders who are unfamilier with
> the very specific terminology that covers the different states of
> "internal awareness" that a person usually does not encounter unless
> they practice yoga themselves?

That likely is the case however I think, arcane or esoteric would be
more appropriate here.

Occult is the one that still has me a bit turned around. The term is
used as if it has a specific meaning but I haven't found one yet. I
think it is probably bandied around like the term mysticism.

Jared

Namaste

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I use to believe in the occult and mysticism, but now I think the
evidence suggests that it's all in the brain. BRAIN ELECTRICS is a new
science, while ancient mysticism is a misinterpretation of natural
brain phenomena.  Anyone can take 50 milligrams of psilocybin and get a
fantastic mystical experience.  If mysticism is based on chemistry,
that means it is physical in nature, not supernatural, and is part of
the physical brain structure and function.

See "Do you have a soul?" at:
http://home.att.net/~meditation/soul.html

Christopher Calder
http://home.att.net/~meditation/ - home page

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"omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:omjaroo-63BB69.19380028052005@news.corenews.com.. 

<snip>
[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
> It would be helpful for a jnani to read/read about these.

<snip>

> Jared
>
> Namaste

Howdy!

I have the 2 vol.
God Talks With Arjuna - The Bhagavad Gita
by: Paramahansa Yogananda

I was going to order a commontary on the Yoga Sutras just yesterday, but I
thought that I had better make a concerted effort to study what I already
have on hand first!



Dave

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On 2005-05-28 20:04:48 -0700, "calderhome@yahoo.com"
<calderhome@yahoo.com> said:

> I use to believe in the occult and mysticism, but now I think the
> evidence suggests that it's all in the brain. BRAIN ELECTRICS is a new
> science, while ancient mysticism is a misinterpretation of natural
> brain phenomena.  Anyone can take 50 milligrams of psilocybin and get a
> fantastic mystical experience.  If mysticism is based on chemistry,
> that means it is physical in nature, not supernatural, and is part of
> the physical brain structure and function.

Dang Chris, that is soooo David Hume, materialist of you.  Everything
can be explained in terms of concrete physical phenomena.

Imagine for just a second that the electrons speeding through the cells
and synapses, are taking place at sub-atomically.  Is it possible that
the reactions that are happening may be subject to the laws of quantum
mechanics and not Newtonian physics?

It these are in fact quantum reactions it suggest that the brain is not
so much a binary computer with on-off conditions but a quantum
computer.  A quantum computer subject to the multi dimensional physics
of QM.  No longer on-off but coherent super position states.

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

And if this theory is too wild and speculative, isn't important for
humans to understand that there is a bigger picture here than a bunch
of animals roaming around this planet, spitting and belching for
survival.  Isn't sum of our humanity more than a mass of cells glued
together?

Just maybe the attributes of brain physiology are markers for events
transcending the brain itself.  Measuring brain reactions to understand
consciousness is a bit like taking apart a printing press to understand
today's news stories.
--
~Stu

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Stu,

Thanks for the url, very cool! MikeD likes this stuff. Did you notice
he just posted?

My two cents:-)

There will always be a physical corollary (of anything that exists),
which can be observed, defined measured etc, even if the technology to
do so doesn't exist yet. The materialists are searching for the same
thing the religious are. They are just taking a different
(longer/scarier) path if you ask me (and Mr. Einstein, who they say
died a mystic.)

My theory is we live in a primary universe and can only infer what
exists in binary symbolism (equally alternating opposites), giving the
impression of time, space, movement and other fictions required so we
can express (and find our car keys:-).

Namaste

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I am familiar with the quantum brain theory, but don't pay much
attention to it as there is absolutely no proof of it.  Even if it is
true, it does not change anything.  There is no scientific theory, even
quantum theory, that can justify a belief in reincarnation.  That is
the crucial point.  No one knows exactly how consciousness works, but
we do know for sure it relies on chemistry to work.  You can put any
"enlightened" person to sleep by injecting them with drugs, lowering
their blood pressure, or removing oxygen or glucose from their blood.
My guess is that consciousness is just complexly woven chemistry.  Even
bugs have consciousness, so the consciousness circuit exists in even
small animals and is not that complex.  One Russian scientist claimed
to have built a conscious computer by making computer chips that mimic
the human brain cell. His claim may have been balcony, but who knows
what scientists will bring in future years.  I would not be surprised
if artificial consciousness is possible.

If you read the current scientific papers written on consciousness you
will not find any bigger pile of horse dung anywhere.  They use allot
of ten dollar words for ten cent ideas, and jump from one obscure
reference to another, all without really saying anything.  Thus, it is
easy to tell from what has been written so far that no one knows
anything and that they are all just bluffing to get grant money.  If
you really know how something works you can state it simply and
clearly.  Scientists can describe the TV camera like qualities of the
human brain, but not consciousness itself.  There is an organic TV in
your brain, but what is watching the TV?  The quantum brain papers are
even worse because they have no scientific test data to back up any of
their beliefs.  It is all just based on wild speculation and a desire
to find something sexy and mysterious, so they can go on believing in
reincarnation or spirit or whatever their religious trip is.

The universe IS a mysterious place and matter is energy and energy is
UNKNOWN.  For example, there is no scientific explanation as to why and
how a room dedicated to meditation practice builds up a vibe.  It may
be some kind of simple electrical charge or it may be something new to
science. That said, there is no evidence to suggest a separable soul,
let alone reincarnation.  If something is true you can test for it.  If
you test the soul-reincarnation theory at multiple points you will find
it fails the test at every point.  If you test the no-soul,
no-reincarnation theory at multiple points, you will find it passes the
tests with ease at every single point.

Soul is a theory and no-soul is a theory.  I would be pleased to find
that one day someone discovers proof of a soul and reincarnation, as I
find life fun and I would be happy to come back for another go-round.
I am not anti-soul by emotional makeup and I believed in
soul-reincarnation for over 35 years.  That is a long time to believe
something.  The point is all my beliefs fell apart due to overwhelming
evidence the soul theory is fantasy and not fact.  There is allot of
evidence to suggest that religions, which are all cults, and gurus are
using those well meaning fantasies to make money and mind control the
masses.

I would love to be proven wrong on this matter, but I doubt that will
happen as all the evidence is against my former belief in
soul-reincarnation.  I got suckered into believing it because I was
naively and wrongly impressed with the credentials of all those great
sages who believed in it.  Then I finally realized I was part of a long
chain of belief that was based on nothing but wishful thinking.  The
great heroes of religion are not that great, and the "occult" is just
part of the world of human imagination.

Christopher Calder
http://home.att.net/~meditation/ - home page

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Christopher,

>If you test the soul-reincarnation theory at multiple points you will find
>it fails the test at every point. =A0If you test the no-soul,
>no-reincarnation theory at multiple points, you will find it passes the
>tests with ease at every single point.

How do we go about doing this? Can we do it here on alt.yoga?

Jared

Namaste

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<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117433092.121692.255760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..
> I am familiar with the quantum brain theory, but don't pay much
> attention to it as there is absolutely no proof of it.  Even if it is
> true, it does not change anything.  There is no scientific theory, even
> quantum theory, that can justify a belief in reincarnation.  That is
> the crucial point.  No one knows exactly how consciousness works, but
> we do know for sure it relies on chemistry to work.  You can put any
> "enlightened" person to sleep by injecting them with drugs, lowering
> their blood pressure, or removing oxygen or glucose from their blood.
> My guess is that consciousness is just complexly woven chemistry.  Even
> bugs have consciousness, so the consciousness circuit exists in even
> small animals and is not that complex.  One Russian scientist claimed
> to have built a conscious computer by making computer chips that mimic
> the human brain cell. His claim may have been balcony, but who knows
> what scientists will bring in future years.  I would not be surprised
> if artificial consciousness is possible.
>
> If you read the current scientific papers written on consciousness you
> will not find any bigger pile of horse dung anywhere.  They use allot
> of ten dollar words for ten cent ideas, and jump from one obscure
> reference to another, all without really saying anything.  Thus, it is
> easy to tell from what has been written so far that no one knows
> anything and that they are all just bluffing to get grant money.  If
> you really know how something works you can state it simply and
> clearly.  Scientists can describe the TV camera like qualities of the
> human brain, but not consciousness itself.  There is an organic TV in
> your brain, but what is watching the TV?  The quantum brain papers are
> even worse because they have no scientific test data to back up any of
> their beliefs.  It is all just based on wild speculation and a desire
> to find something sexy and mysterious, so they can go on believing in
> reincarnation or spirit or whatever their religious trip is.
>
> The universe IS a mysterious place and matter is energy and energy is
> UNKNOWN.  For example, there is no scientific explanation as to why and
> how a room dedicated to meditation practice builds up a vibe.  It may
> be some kind of simple electrical charge or it may be something new to
> science. That said, there is no evidence to suggest a separable soul,
> let alone reincarnation.  If something is true you can test for it.  If
> you test the soul-reincarnation theory at multiple points you will find
> it fails the test at every point.  If you test the no-soul,
> no-reincarnation theory at multiple points, you will find it passes the
> tests with ease at every single point.
>
> Soul is a theory and no-soul is a theory.  I would be pleased to find
> that one day someone discovers proof of a soul and reincarnation, as I
> find life fun and I would be happy to come back for another go-round.
> I am not anti-soul by emotional makeup and I believed in
> soul-reincarnation for over 35 years.  That is a long time to believe
> something.  The point is all my beliefs fell apart due to overwhelming
> evidence the soul theory is fantasy and not fact.  There is allot of
> evidence to suggest that religions, which are all cults, and gurus are
> using those well meaning fantasies to make money and mind control the
> masses.
>
> I would love to be proven wrong on this matter, but I doubt that will
> happen as all the evidence is against my former belief in
> soul-reincarnation.  I got suckered into believing it because I was
> naively and wrongly impressed with the credentials of all those great
> sages who believed in it.  Then I finally realized I was part of a long
> chain of belief that was based on nothing but wishful thinking.  The
> great heroes of religion are not that great, and the "occult" is just
> part of the world of human imagination.
>
> Christopher Calder
> http://home.att.net/~meditation/ - home page
>

Howdy!

Are you talking about CONCIOUSNESS or THE MIND??
They are not the same thing!

The scientific method is dependant on dualism and thus can not be used to
prove/demonstrate a non-dualist concept. Any attempt to do so will only lead
to conundrums and contradictions.


--
Dave ©¿©¬

http://www.howdydave.com

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