When children are first learning to play the piano, say the first year,
would practicing on a keyboard mess them up?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

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"Sue" <sburke9368@wideopenwest.com> wrote in message
news:I7mdnR1x3Ii6AP7fRVn-gQ@wideopenwest.com..
> When children are first learning to play the piano, say the first year,
> would practicing on a keyboard mess them up?
> --
> Sue (mom to three girls)
>
>
Well, I'm not a purist-I went to using a keyboard at school because the
district wouldn't pay for frequent enough tuning. The feel of a keyboard is
very different, but the skills transfer, with some caveats.

A few suggestions:

1) Full size keys, and at least 6 full octaves. A full 88 is better. This is
a requirement-many keyboards do not have full sized keys, and this causes
real problems in transferring to piano.
2) Touch sensitive keys (Velocity sensitive is another term used). Without
these, it's easy to learn very bad habits, which are a real problem on an
actual piano.
3) Damper Pedals and Weighted keys both are very helpful in the future, but
not so much in the first year. These are found in digital pianos, which are
sort of a bridge between a keyboard and a piano (and I tend to think are the
best of both worlds for practice purposes, because digitals don't need
tuning and can be played with headphones)
4) If you get a real piano, you MUST be willing to pay for tuning every 6
months, 3 if you're in a climate with a lot of change, or if you don't
reliably control the temperature in your house within about 10 degrees.
Don't wait until you can hear the piano is out of tune, because unless you
have a highly trained ear or perfect pitch, you won't hear the small
changes. The older the piano, the more frequently it is likely to need to be
tuned.


Some piano teachers are purists, and do not wish a child to use a keyboard,
but from my POV for most students, a keyboard will work, and a good digital
piano will work for almost anyone-many students majoring in music now take
one with them to college, because it can be practiced in a dorm room, and
can be used with a computer for notation software.

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Sue wrote:

> When children are first learning to play the piano, say the first year,
> would practicing on a keyboard mess them up?

Depends on the keyboard.  Better keyboards have better
feedback, better touch.  Of course, a really good keyboard isn't
going to run a lot less than a piano.  I know some kids who've
had no choice but to start with a keyboard who are doing well,
but who's to say they wouldn't be doing better with a real
piano?  Our piano teacher *strongly* encourages a real piano,
but she has both a piano and a keyboard at her home and I
knew lots of piano majors at college who had keyboards in
their rooms so they could practice with headphones.
Personally, if I had some reason that I really couldn't
get a piano (but I could get a good keyboard) for a short
period of time, I'd discuss it with the prospective piano
teacher and see what he or she said.  Different teachers
will give you different answers.  I wouldn't try it with
a keyboard that didn't have a full range or didn't give
feedback that was very close to that of a real piano.  If
I end up with three kids playing piano, however, I will
definitely be looking into getting a keyboad as a second
instrument and rotating practice times so that more than
one can practice at a time.

Best wishes,
Ericka

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Sue wrote:

> When children are first learning to play the piano, say the first year,
> would practicing on a keyboard mess them up?

Sorry to be a purist, but here goes..

An acoustic piano is as different from an electric
piano as an acoustic bass is different from an
electric bass.  Yes, they read the same notes and
they have externally the same kind of mechanism
to produce the notes (for the fingers, that is, not
internal mechanics), BUT they are NOT THE SAME
instrument.

If your final medium is a piano (for the lesson, for
a recital, for a competition), then you MUST practice
on a piano.  If your final medium is an electric
keyboard, then you MUST practice on a keyboard.

I play both piano and keyboards for community
theatre pit orchestras and, believe me, it does not
work to practice for the electric on my piano, nor
vice versa.  The sound production is different,
the finger strength, the way you move your
fingers..  It's a different technique.

Once you get good enough, you can get by with
using an electric keyboard to help you figure out
spacings and fingerings and memorization, but
you still cannot practice your concerto on your
keyboard and expect to perform well on a piano.

The exception is if you spend enough money to
get an electric that has touch sensitivity comparable
to an acoustic.  For that amount of money, if your
recital will be on an acoustic, I'd say, get an acoustic.

-- Anita --

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In article <9mN8e.95647$vK6.52788@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
Donna Metler <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote:
>
>4) If you get a real piano, you MUST be willing to pay for tuning every 6
>months, 3 if you're in a climate with a lot of change, or if you don't
>reliably control the temperature in your house within about 10 degrees.
>Don't wait until you can hear the piano is out of tune, because unless you
>have a highly trained ear or perfect pitch, you won't hear the small
>changes. The older the piano, the more frequently it is likely to need to b
e
>tuned.

Perhaps this is a silly question, but if you can't hear the difference,
why does it matter if the piano is slightly out of tune?

--Robyn

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"Donna Metler" <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote in message
news:9mN8e.95647$vK6.52788@bignews3.bellsouth.net..
>
> "Sue" <sburke9368@wideopenwest.com> wrote in message
> news:I7mdnR1x3Ii6AP7fRVn-gQ@wideopenwest.com.. 
> Well, I'm not a purist-I went to using a keyboard at school because the
> district wouldn't pay for frequent enough tuning. The feel of a keyboard
> is
> very different, but the skills transfer, with some caveats.
>
> A few suggestions:
>
> 1) Full size keys, and at least 6 full octaves. A full 88 is better. This
> is
> a requirement-many keyboards do not have full sized keys, and this causes
> real problems in transferring to piano.
> 2) Touch sensitive keys (Velocity sensitive is another term used). Without
> these, it's easy to learn very bad habits, which are a real problem on an
> actual piano.
> 3) Damper Pedals and Weighted keys both are very helpful in the future,
> but
> not so much in the first year. These are found in digital pianos, which
> are
> sort of a bridge between a keyboard and a piano (and I tend to think are
> the
> best of both worlds for practice purposes, because digitals don't need
> tuning and can be played with headphones)
> 4) If you get a real piano, you MUST be willing to pay for tuning every 6
> months, 3 if you're in a climate with a lot of change, or if you don't
> reliably control the temperature in your house within about 10 degrees.
> Don't wait until you can hear the piano is out of tune, because unless you
> have a highly trained ear or perfect pitch, you won't hear the small
> changes. The older the piano, the more frequently it is likely to need to
> be
> tuned.
>
Dh (who plays the piano and has perfect pitch) adds that the piano he learnt
on didn't need tuning that often. He reckons it was probably done once a
year, but often didn't really need even that. He says it will depend on the
individual piano, where it is (if near heat source it may need it more) and
other things.
Debbie
Ps he also says that 88 octaves will make a big piano  :-)

>
> Some piano teachers are purists, and do not wish a child to use a
> keyboard,
> but from my POV for most students, a keyboard will work, and a good
> digital
> piano will work for almost anyone-many students majoring in music now take
> one with them to college, because it can be practiced in a dorm room, and
> can be used with a computer for notation software.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Robyn Kozierok writes:

> Perhaps this is a silly question, but if you can't hear the difference,
> why does it matter if the piano is slightly out of tune?

Because you want any kids around to develop a better ear than you have
yourself, I assume? I think it's like developing different boundaries
between consonants depending on which language(s) you're exposed to - if
the instruments a young child hears are consistently well in tune, then
something that isn't so well in tune sounds wrong, which is what you're
aiming for, if you want the child to have the possibility of doing well as
a musician.

Is there also an argument that it's better for the piano to be in tune?
With violins, there is a consensus that an instrument that is well and
regularly played becomes a better instrument, though I don't know whether
it's really true. Since piano temperaments have to be compromises anyway, I
don't know whether this would work for pianos, though.


Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

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"Robyn Kozierok" <robynk@nautilus.shore.net> wrote in message
news:giU8e.1055$E57.798@fe51.usenetserver.com..
> In article <9mN8e.95647$vK6.52788@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
> Donna Metler <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote: 
you[vbcol=seagreen] 
be[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
> Perhaps this is a silly question, but if you can't hear the difference,
> why does it matter if the piano is slightly out of tune?
>
> --Robyn
>
Because you'll never learn to hear the difference if the tuning is always
shifting. One reason why I prefer to see students start on instruments other
than piano is that on a string instrument or a wind instrument, intonation
is under the student's control, while on piano, it is taken out of your
control entirely, and as a result, students who play just piano tend to
develop less sensitive hearing as far as pitch is concerned.

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"Welches" <welches@nospamplease.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:OCU8e.36455$pA6.18640@newsfe1-win.ntli.net..
>
> "Donna Metler" <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote in message
> news:9mN8e.95647$vK6.52788@bignews3.bellsouth.net.. 
This[vbcol=seagreen] 
causes[vbcol=seagreen] 
Without[vbcol=seagreen] 
an[vbcol=seagreen] 
6[vbcol=seagreen] 
you[vbcol=seagreen] 
to[vbcol=seagreen] 
> Dh (who plays the piano and has perfect pitch) adds that the piano he
learnt
> on didn't need tuning that often. He reckons it was probably done once a
> year, but often didn't really need even that. He says it will depend on
the
> individual piano, where it is (if near heat source it may need it more)
and
> other things.
Heat and humidity are big ones-as is the consistency of temperature. My
school district turns off the heat/AC when no one is in the building, which
means after Christmas break, even if the piano was in tune previously, it
won't be anymore. Memphis humidity doesn't help, either.  I had to tune
guitars daily in that building-and I don't mean fine tuning of a few cents
here and there, either. Which is why I finally went ahead and bought a
decent digital piano for my classroom-since I'm not a concert pianist, it
didn't matter all that much, and the intonation differences were
significant.

> Debbie
> Ps he also says that 88 octaves will make a big piano  :-)-
88 keys-sorry!

> 
take[vbcol=seagreen] 
and[vbcol=seagreen] 
>
>

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"Irrational Number" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4263F96F.35F12D50@nospam.com..
> Sue wrote:
> 
>
> Sorry to be a purist, but here goes..
>
> An acoustic piano is as different from an electric
> piano as an acoustic bass is different from an
> electric bass.  Yes, they read the same notes and
> they have externally the same kind of mechanism
> to produce the notes (for the fingers, that is, not
> internal mechanics), BUT they are NOT THE SAME
> instrument.
>
> If your final medium is a piano (for the lesson, for
> a recital, for a competition), then you MUST practice
> on a piano.  If your final medium is an electric
> keyboard, then you MUST practice on a keyboard.
>
> I play both piano and keyboards for community
> theatre pit orchestras and, believe me, it does not
> work to practice for the electric on my piano, nor
> vice versa.  The sound production is different,
> the finger strength, the way you move your
> fingers..  It's a different technique.
>
> Once you get good enough, you can get by with
> using an electric keyboard to help you figure out
> spacings and fingerings and memorization, but
> you still cannot practice your concerto on your
> keyboard and expect to perform well on a piano.
>
> The exception is if you spend enough money to
> get an electric that has touch sensitivity comparable
> to an acoustic.  For that amount of money, if your
> recital will be on an acoustic, I'd say, get an acoustic.
>
I find this interesting-I'm not a concert pianist, or even primarily a
pianist (for me, piano is a secondary instrument which I use in teaching
voice and other instruments), but I find more differences between pianos
than between a decent digital piano with weighted keys and a well-maintained
acoustic. Of course, that may be because I'm tending to play on spottily
maintained school and church pianos-and usually a digital piano is kept
locked up AWAY from little fingers, while acoustics tend to become toys for
little wandering hands.

> -- Anita --
>
>

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