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| backbeat 2004-10-03, 10:22 pm |
| Help resolve this dissonance with your thoughts.
Bill and Bob are brothers. Bill is 62 and he has ESRD, some PAD and CAD.
He smokes. Recently he had an episode of renal encephalopathy and nearly
died, it was related to insufficient dialysis time.
Bill gets very bad headaches from dialysis, and neuropathy from the ESRD. He
was prescribed percocet to help him cope, this drug may have played some
role in the development of encephalopathy because there was evidence of
abuse. Bill's doctor threatened to cut him from the recipient list if he did
not't stop smoking. So far, he has been unable to do so.
Bill went to the ER again, the second time in a month, hemorrhaging from the
rectum. His hematocrit dropped to 18. HGB 6. Bill was transfused with 6
units. This episode was caused by excessive Excedrin ingestion (2 grams
ASA/day), combined with high BP, these opened up a bleeding ulcer. Bill has
been going through hell lately.
Bob is married to two younger kids: 11 and 15. Bob has a mortgage and is
financially struggling. Bob's wife is 48 and has HTN, newly diagnosed
diabetes, she is morbidly obese, smokes. She has the same disease as Bill as
well: focal segmented glomerular nephritis. In December, Bill asked Bob
consider giving a kidney because he couldn't tolerate dialysis. Bob said he'
d look into it.
Bob was worried because of his wife's condition, if something happened to
him related to surgery, something might soon happen to his wife, and his
family would be in jeopardy. The family has no backup support because they
are older parents.. Most relatives are distant and older.
Bob went to have the blood work done. He was a 0/6 HLA match with negative
cross match. The meaning of the HLA status is ambiguous. Not ideal. Bob is
seeing his brother in great distress; he sees his brother fading, wasting.
He can see his brother got a raw deal in life: Bob was the favored son, Bob
was doing better in many ways, and his father neglected Bill. There is deep
resentment there on Bills' side toward Bob. Does Bob give Bill a kidney? How
do they resolve this problem when it is clear that Bill may die before a
kidney comes, and Bob will probably feel tormented if this occurs?
It seems neither can win this situation. Bob is watching Bill get sicker.
However, he realizes that transplant scenarios do not always go like
described in Readers digest. Either could die on the table. Acute rejection
could occur. By trying to help his brother by feeling pressured, or
motivated by guilt, and given his brother's compromised state, Bob could
kill his brother in an attempt to help. Bill could become sensitized to
those six antigens and limit options for a second transplant to a perfect
HLA match, should the first fail.
There is some family pressure to donate the kidney because in theory it can
be done, but a sister with young kids understands Bob's reluctance to go
forward. An older sister reinforces Bill's anger but stoking it, saying:" he
shouldn't have had the blood work if he didn't intend to go through with
it." The sister assumes Bob has made up his mind and then had the test. Bob
still has not made up his mind.
What should Bob do? Should he donate the kidney? Should he resolve not to
donate the kidney and help build brother up so that he could survive until
kidney becomes available? Should he keep the option open if transplant
becomes a necessity? In the usual transplant situation, all the variables
are examined with the family. Bill refuses a family meeting saying: "if you
mention all that stuff about your wife they won't do it."
What do you think?
backbeat
| |
|
| Sophies Choice !
backbeat wrote:
> Help resolve this dissonance with your thoughts.
> Bill and Bob are brothers. Bill is 62 and he has ESRD, some PAD and CAD.
> He smokes. Recently he had an episode of renal encephalopathy and nearly
> died, it was related to insufficient dialysis time.
> Bill gets very bad headaches from dialysis, and neuropathy from the ESRD. He
> was prescribed percocet to help him cope, this drug may have played some
> role in the development of encephalopathy because there was evidence of
> abuse. Bill's doctor threatened to cut him from the recipient list if he did
> not't stop smoking. So far, he has been unable to do so.
>
> Bill went to the ER again, the second time in a month, hemorrhaging from the
> rectum. His hematocrit dropped to 18. HGB 6. Bill was transfused with 6
> units. This episode was caused by excessive Excedrin ingestion (2 grams
> ASA/day), combined with high BP, these opened up a bleeding ulcer. Bill has
> been going through hell lately.
>
> Bob is married to two younger kids: 11 and 15. Bob has a mortgage and is
> financially struggling. Bob's wife is 48 and has HTN, newly diagnosed
> diabetes, she is morbidly obese, smokes. She has the same disease as Bill as
> well: focal segmented glomerular nephritis. In December, Bill asked Bob
> consider giving a kidney because he couldn't tolerate dialysis. Bob said he'
> d look into it.
>
> Bob was worried because of his wife's condition, if something happened to
> him related to surgery, something might soon happen to his wife, and his
> family would be in jeopardy. The family has no backup support because they
> are older parents.. Most relatives are distant and older.
> Bob went to have the blood work done. He was a 0/6 HLA match with negative
> cross match. The meaning of the HLA status is ambiguous. Not ideal. Bob is
> seeing his brother in great distress; he sees his brother fading, wasting.
> He can see his brother got a raw deal in life: Bob was the favored son, Bob
> was doing better in many ways, and his father neglected Bill. There is deep
> resentment there on Bills' side toward Bob. Does Bob give Bill a kidney? How
> do they resolve this problem when it is clear that Bill may die before a
> kidney comes, and Bob will probably feel tormented if this occurs?
> It seems neither can win this situation. Bob is watching Bill get sicker.
> However, he realizes that transplant scenarios do not always go like
> described in Readers digest. Either could die on the table. Acute rejection
> could occur. By trying to help his brother by feeling pressured, or
> motivated by guilt, and given his brother's compromised state, Bob could
> kill his brother in an attempt to help. Bill could become sensitized to
> those six antigens and limit options for a second transplant to a perfect
> HLA match, should the first fail.
> There is some family pressure to donate the kidney because in theory it can
> be done, but a sister with young kids understands Bob's reluctance to go
> forward. An older sister reinforces Bill's anger but stoking it, saying:" he
> shouldn't have had the blood work if he didn't intend to go through with
> it." The sister assumes Bob has made up his mind and then had the test. Bob
> still has not made up his mind.
> What should Bob do? Should he donate the kidney? Should he resolve not to
> donate the kidney and help build brother up so that he could survive until
> kidney becomes available? Should he keep the option open if transplant
> becomes a necessity? In the usual transplant situation, all the variables
> are examined with the family. Bill refuses a family meeting saying: "if you
> mention all that stuff about your wife they won't do it."
> What do you think?
> backbeat
>
>
| |
| Larry Krzewinski 2004-10-03, 10:22 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:45:58 GMT, "backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net>
wrote:
>Help resolve this dissonance with your thoughts.
>Bill and Bob are brothers. Bill is 62 and he has ESRD, some PAD and CAD.
>He smokes. Recently he had an episode of renal encephalopathy and nearly
>died, it was related to insufficient dialysis time.
>Bill gets very bad headaches from dialysis, and neuropathy from the ESRD. He
>was prescribed percocet to help him cope, this drug may have played some
>role in the development of encephalopathy because there was evidence of
>abuse. Bill's doctor threatened to cut him from the recipient list if he did
>not't stop smoking. So far, he has been unable to do so.
>
>Bill went to the ER again, the second time in a month, hemorrhaging from the
>rectum. His hematocrit dropped to 18. HGB 6. Bill was transfused with 6
>units. This episode was caused by excessive Excedrin ingestion (2 grams
>ASA/day), combined with high BP, these opened up a bleeding ulcer. Bill has
>been going through hell lately.
>
>Bob is married to two younger kids: 11 and 15. Bob has a mortgage and is
>financially struggling. Bob's wife is 48 and has HTN, newly diagnosed
>diabetes, she is morbidly obese, smokes. She has the same disease as Bill as
>well: focal segmented glomerular nephritis. In December, Bill asked Bob
>consider giving a kidney because he couldn't tolerate dialysis. Bob said he'
>d look into it.
>
>Bob was worried because of his wife's condition, if something happened to
>him related to surgery, something might soon happen to his wife, and his
>family would be in jeopardy. The family has no backup support because they
>are older parents.. Most relatives are distant and older.
>Bob went to have the blood work done. He was a 0/6 HLA match with negative
>cross match. The meaning of the HLA status is ambiguous. Not ideal. Bob is
>seeing his brother in great distress; he sees his brother fading, wasting.
>He can see his brother got a raw deal in life: Bob was the favored son, Bob
>was doing better in many ways, and his father neglected Bill. There is deep
>resentment there on Bills' side toward Bob. Does Bob give Bill a kidney? How
>do they resolve this problem when it is clear that Bill may die before a
>kidney comes, and Bob will probably feel tormented if this occurs?
>It seems neither can win this situation. Bob is watching Bill get sicker.
>However, he realizes that transplant scenarios do not always go like
>described in Readers digest. Either could die on the table. Acute rejection
>could occur. By trying to help his brother by feeling pressured, or
>motivated by guilt, and given his brother's compromised state, Bob could
>kill his brother in an attempt to help. Bill could become sensitized to
>those six antigens and limit options for a second transplant to a perfect
>HLA match, should the first fail.
>There is some family pressure to donate the kidney because in theory it can
>be done, but a sister with young kids understands Bob's reluctance to go
>forward. An older sister reinforces Bill's anger but stoking it, saying:" he
>shouldn't have had the blood work if he didn't intend to go through with
> it." The sister assumes Bob has made up his mind and then had the test. Bob
>still has not made up his mind.
>What should Bob do? Should he donate the kidney? Should he resolve not to
>donate the kidney and help build brother up so that he could survive until
>kidney becomes available? Should he keep the option open if transplant
>becomes a necessity? In the usual transplant situation, all the variables
>are examined with the family. Bill refuses a family meeting saying: "if you
>mention all that stuff about your wife they won't do it."
>What do you think?
>backbeat
Bob needs to make this decision himself. He should always be aware
that at any time prior to undergoing the anesthesia for the kidney
donation he is free to back out of this. He should never be pressured
by anyone to do this. Bob should only donate the kidney if he feels
it is the right thing to do in his situation and he understands all
the risks involved. There are never any guarantees, just calculated
guesses based upon the odds.
Larry
| |
|
|
"backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:qrh6d.1778$Xd2.1531@trndny01...
> Help resolve this dissonance with your thoughts.
> Bill and Bob are brothers. Bill is 62 and he has ESRD, some PAD and CAD.
> He smokes. Recently he had an episode of renal encephalopathy and nearly
> died, it was related to insufficient dialysis time.
> Bill gets very bad headaches from dialysis, and neuropathy from the ESRD.
He
> was prescribed percocet to help him cope, this drug may have played some
> role in the development of encephalopathy because there was evidence of
> abuse. Bill's doctor threatened to cut him from the recipient list if he
did
> not't stop smoking. So far, he has been unable to do so.
>
> Bill went to the ER again, the second time in a month, hemorrhaging from
the
> rectum. His hematocrit dropped to 18. HGB 6. Bill was transfused with 6
> units. This episode was caused by excessive Excedrin ingestion (2 grams
> ASA/day), combined with high BP, these opened up a bleeding ulcer. Bill
has
> been going through hell lately.
>
> Bob is married to two younger kids: 11 and 15. Bob has a mortgage and is
> financially struggling. Bob's wife is 48 and has HTN, newly diagnosed
> diabetes, she is morbidly obese, smokes. She has the same disease as Bill
as
> well: focal segmented glomerular nephritis. In December, Bill asked Bob
> consider giving a kidney because he couldn't tolerate dialysis. Bob said
he'
> d look into it.
>
> Bob was worried because of his wife's condition, if something happened to
> him related to surgery, something might soon happen to his wife, and his
> family would be in jeopardy. The family has no backup support because they
> are older parents.. Most relatives are distant and older.
> Bob went to have the blood work done. He was a 0/6 HLA match with negative
> cross match. The meaning of the HLA status is ambiguous. Not ideal. Bob is
> seeing his brother in great distress; he sees his brother fading, wasting.
> He can see his brother got a raw deal in life: Bob was the favored son,
Bob
> was doing better in many ways, and his father neglected Bill. There is
deep
> resentment there on Bills' side toward Bob. Does Bob give Bill a kidney?
How
> do they resolve this problem when it is clear that Bill may die before a
> kidney comes, and Bob will probably feel tormented if this occurs?
> It seems neither can win this situation. Bob is watching Bill get sicker.
> However, he realizes that transplant scenarios do not always go like
> described in Readers digest. Either could die on the table. Acute
rejection
> could occur. By trying to help his brother by feeling pressured, or
> motivated by guilt, and given his brother's compromised state, Bob could
> kill his brother in an attempt to help. Bill could become sensitized to
> those six antigens and limit options for a second transplant to a perfect
> HLA match, should the first fail.
> There is some family pressure to donate the kidney because in theory it
can
> be done, but a sister with young kids understands Bob's reluctance to go
> forward. An older sister reinforces Bill's anger but stoking it, saying:"
he
> shouldn't have had the blood work if he didn't intend to go through with
> it." The sister assumes Bob has made up his mind and then had the test.
Bob
> still has not made up his mind.
> What should Bob do? Should he donate the kidney? Should he resolve not to
> donate the kidney and help build brother up so that he could survive
until
> kidney becomes available? Should he keep the option open if transplant
> becomes a necessity? In the usual transplant situation, all the variables
> are examined with the family. Bill refuses a family meeting saying: "if
you
> mention all that stuff about your wife they won't do it."
> What do you think?
> backbeat
>
Bob should rexamine his premise of self-sacrifice, which usually means
others calling for Bob to sacrifice but rarely reciprocated.
Bob should live a life within his own personal interest: his life, his
wife's life and his children.
Whom does Bob value more? his wife or his brother?
Bob should not accept the ethics of self sacrifice: he should value his life
and his family before his brother.
Bob should not feel tormented if Bill dies.
Bill can get a cadaver kidney, but he has to work on it to get on the list.
If he is undisciplined about this goal , there is no indication that he will
be responsible with a living donor kidney. There is a reason why the Drs and
transplant committee won't put him on the list: they don't want to waste a
cadaver kidney, let alone a living donor kidney.
Bob should focus on the mother of his children.
Bob should not donate his kidney to his brother and save it for his wife, if
he decides she deserves it.
| |
| Chuk Goodin 2004-10-03, 10:22 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:45:58 GMT, "backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net> wrote:
>What should Bob do? Should he donate the kidney? Should he resolve not to
>donate the kidney and help build brother up so that he could survive until
>kidney becomes available? Should he keep the option open if transplant
>becomes a necessity? In the usual transplant situation, all the variables
>are examined with the family. Bill refuses a family meeting saying: "if you
>mention all that stuff about your wife they won't do it."
>What do you think?
If I were Bob, I'd keep my kidney -- if you're the only support for a
family (or in a situation where you soon might be), that has to come
before siblings. Yes, dialysis can suck (and it sounds like it is for
Bill), but it doesn't seem like Bill'd be very good at taking care of a
new kidney, either.
(I don't know how much help answers from strangers will be -- every
family's choices are going to be very personal. Bob definitely does not
need to feel guilty about not sacrificing his own health for his brother.)
--
chuk
| |
| Richard Archer 2004-10-03, 10:22 pm |
|
"backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:qrh6d.1778$Xd2.1531@trndny01...
> snip>
I see the mention of some sisters in the post, have they considered
donations?
It shouldn't be just down to Bob.
Richard Archer
| |
| backbeat 2004-10-03, 10:22 pm |
| One sister has four kids, two of whom have medical problems. The other is
63, fairly healthy, but supposedly has a BP that is bit two high, she's also
a hypochondriac - she thinks she has the same disease, but does not.
Ironically - she's dumping the biggest guilt trip on Bob. She has not done
the blood test. Her kids are grown, mortgage paid, husband rich. Get the
picture?
backbeat
"Richard Archer" <mrrichardarcher@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:cjj32b$4b0$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:qrh6d.1778$Xd2.1531@trndny01...
>
> I see the mention of some sisters in the post, have they considered
> donations?
> It shouldn't be just down to Bob.
>
> Richard Archer
>
>
| |
| Homefinders 2004-10-04, 10:08 pm |
| I couldn't agree more. Based on the info provided, Bill sounds like he
isn't prepared to accept responsibility for helping to improve his health
with the assistance he already has. He needs an attitude transplant before
he gets a kidney transplant and needs to show that he can look after himself
by becoming compliant and not smoking or abusing prescription meds.
I have 3 younger brothers, none of whom have the problems that Bob has, but
they all decided that for their own reasons they couldn't or wouldn't donate
a kidney to me. I accepted this and settled in to wait for a cadaver donor.
The best way of waiting is to ensure that you take the best possible care of
yourself, rather than acting as the "victim" in this scenario. Self
responsibility leads to self improvement.
Judanne
"AisA" <aisa@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:_%A6d.4370$ls6.1631@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Bob should rexamine his premise of self-sacrifice, which usually means
> others calling for Bob to sacrifice but rarely reciprocated.
> Bob should live a life within his own personal interest: his life, his
> wife's life and his children.
> Whom does Bob value more? his wife or his brother?
> Bob should not accept the ethics of self sacrifice: he should value his
> life
> and his family before his brother.
> Bob should not feel tormented if Bill dies.
> Bill can get a cadaver kidney, but he has to work on it to get on the
> list.
> If he is undisciplined about this goal , there is no indication that he
> will
> be responsible with a living donor kidney. There is a reason why the Drs
> and
> transplant committee won't put him on the list: they don't want to waste a
> cadaver kidney, let alone a living donor kidney.
> Bob should focus on the mother of his children.
> Bob should not donate his kidney to his brother and save it for his wife,
> if
> he decides she deserves it.
>
>
| |
| Homefinders 2004-10-04, 10:08 pm |
| Sounds like they could all do with some family counselling, especially Bob
and Bill.
Judanne
"backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vdc7d.29477$Wa7.10112@trndny06...
> One sister has four kids, two of whom have medical problems. The other is
> 63, fairly healthy, but supposedly has a BP that is bit two high, she's
> also
> a hypochondriac - she thinks she has the same disease, but does not.
> Ironically - she's dumping the biggest guilt trip on Bob. She has not done
> the blood test. Her kids are grown, mortgage paid, husband rich. Get the
> picture?
> backbeat
>
> "Richard Archer" <mrrichardarcher@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:cjj32b$4b0$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>
| |
|
| Yes, and truly for no other reasons than for our own selfish need to
physically and mentally prepare for the operation. It is the key to self
esteem, a fuel needed for survival with dignity. As matter of fact, self
responsibility can become a source of inspiration for others especially the
young ones and thus offered a basis for family to get involved. In my case,
because I value my sibblings for the individuals that they are, I opted for
a cadaver kidney. Once transplanted, I considered it a personal achievement
.. Everyone was amazed at my independence and joined in the celebration
without guilt. So in the end, the "kidney problem" was transformed into a
positive experience for all involved.
From my ESRF experience, I came to the conclusion that altruism is the root
of much dishonesty, tension and suffering I see around me. Bill and Bob's
situation is an illustration of the consequences of this type of morality.We
must survive, as dignified human beings.
Best wishes to you.
AisA
"Homefinders" <judanne@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:5un8d.14469$5O5.2381@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I couldn't agree more. Based on the info provided, Bill sounds like he
> isn't prepared to accept responsibility for helping to improve his health
> with the assistance he already has. He needs an attitude transplant
before
> he gets a kidney transplant and needs to show that he can look after
himself
> by becoming compliant and not smoking or abusing prescription meds.
>
> I have 3 younger brothers, none of whom have the problems that Bob has,
but
> they all decided that for their own reasons they couldn't or wouldn't
donate
> a kidney to me. I accepted this and settled in to wait for a cadaver
donor.
> The best way of waiting is to ensure that you take the best possible care
of
> yourself, rather than acting as the "victim" in this scenario. Self
> responsibility leads to self improvement.
>
> Judanne
>
>
>
> "AisA" <aisa@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:_%A6d.4370$ls6.1631@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
a[vbcol=seagreen]
wife,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
| |
| Daniel Granot 2004-10-13, 11:10 am |
|
Donating a kidney to someone who refuses to quit smoking?
Considering Bill refuses to quit smoking for his own health, there are an
endless stream of other possibilities for him to abuse his system and lead
to the further deterioration of his body let alone whether he has a
functioning transplanted kidney.
What happens when Bill gets the kidney, trashes it and is back on dialysis?
How will Bob feel?
It's almost like giving money to a crack addict. The problem is not going to
be resolved and rather more likely to be exacerbated.
With all due respect, this goes for Bill's wife too.
If you're trying to assist your body to heal and be more accommodating to a
transplant, then smoking and partaking in any other harmful substances are
an offence to the notion of donation.
1. Get Bill to stop smoking and stop any other unhealthy habits.
2. Get wife to stop smoking and stop any other unhealthy habits.
3. Both are close, but only donate to the one which is most urgent when it
really is urgent.
It would seem that the need by Bill is not urgent. Therefore, at some point
his wife' requirement may be more urgent than Bill's hence a donation to his
wife.
"backbeat" <backbeatone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:qrh6d.1778$Xd2.1531@trndny01...
> Help resolve this dissonance with your thoughts.
> Bill and Bob are brothers. Bill is 62 and he has ESRD, some PAD and CAD.
> He smokes. Recently he had an episode of renal encephalopathy and nearly
> died, it was related to insufficient dialysis time.
> Bill gets very bad headaches from dialysis, and neuropathy from the ESRD.
He
> was prescribed percocet to help him cope, this drug may have played some
> role in the development of encephalopathy because there was evidence of
> abuse. Bill's doctor threatened to cut him from the recipient list if he
did
> not't stop smoking. So far, he has been unable to do so.
>
> Bill went to the ER again, the second time in a month, hemorrhaging from
the
> rectum. His hematocrit dropped to 18. HGB 6. Bill was transfused with 6
> units. This episode was caused by excessive Excedrin ingestion (2 grams
> ASA/day), combined with high BP, these opened up a bleeding ulcer. Bill
has
> been going through hell lately.
>
> Bob is married to two younger kids: 11 and 15. Bob has a mortgage and is
> financially struggling. Bob's wife is 48 and has HTN, newly diagnosed
> diabetes, she is morbidly obese, smokes. She has the same disease as Bill
as
> well: focal segmented glomerular nephritis. In December, Bill asked Bob
> consider giving a kidney because he couldn't tolerate dialysis. Bob said
he'
> d look into it.
>
> Bob was worried because of his wife's condition, if something happened to
> him related to surgery, something might soon happen to his wife, and his
> family would be in jeopardy. The family has no backup support because they
> are older parents.. Most relatives are distant and older.
> Bob went to have the blood work done. He was a 0/6 HLA match with negative
> cross match. The meaning of the HLA status is ambiguous. Not ideal. Bob is
> seeing his brother in great distress; he sees his brother fading, wasting.
> He can see his brother got a raw deal in life: Bob was the favored son,
Bob
> was doing better in many ways, and his father neglected Bill. There is
deep
> resentment there on Bills' side toward Bob. Does Bob give Bill a kidney?
How
> do they resolve this problem when it is clear that Bill may die before a
> kidney comes, and Bob will probably feel tormented if this occurs?
> It seems neither can win this situation. Bob is watching Bill get sicker.
> However, he realizes that transplant scenarios do not always go like
> described in Readers digest. Either could die on the table. Acute
rejection
> could occur. By trying to help his brother by feeling pressured, or
> motivated by guilt, and given his brother's compromised state, Bob could
> kill his brother in an attempt to help. Bill could become sensitized to
> those six antigens and limit options for a second transplant to a perfect
> HLA match, should the first fail.
> There is some family pressure to donate the kidney because in theory it
can
> be done, but a sister with young kids understands Bob's reluctance to go
> forward. An older sister reinforces Bill's anger but stoking it, saying:"
he
> shouldn't have had the blood work if he didn't intend to go through with
> it." The sister assumes Bob has made up his mind and then had the test.
Bob
> still has not made up his mind.
> What should Bob do? Should he donate the kidney? Should he resolve not to
> donate the kidney and help build brother up so that he could survive
until
> kidney becomes available? Should he keep the option open if transplant
> becomes a necessity? In the usual transplant situation, all the variables
> are examined with the family. Bill refuses a family meeting saying: "if
you
> mention all that stuff about your wife they won't do it."
> What do you think?
> backbeat
>
>
|
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