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Long-term Pain after Refractive Surgery
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| LASIKtruth 2005-04-27, 10:54 pm |
| I don't' really understand the pain many patients experience permanently
after LASIK - is it dryness pain or nerve pain or nerve pain from dryness?
One post RS patient I know who had a very bad surface ablation has constant
pain - he had a hyperopic treatment. His eyes always hurt. He has an amazing
attitude even though his vision is also absolute shit. Correctable to 20/50
in the left eye with glasses, double vision in the right. He has really
really bad floaters too. The first things he wakes up to are all the
floaters on the ceiling. He says he has dreams of seeing normally and then
wakes up every day to his newly visually impaired life.
A coworker has had an eye that is sore even if he touches his eyelid very
gently since his LASIK 2 years ago.
Another post-RS patient I know had a surface ablation and could really use a
contact lens in that eye but ANYTHING that touches that eye causes
excruciating pain.
The moral of the story? Don't get LASIK.
| |
| serebel 2005-04-27, 10:54 pm |
|
It's amazing how the only people you know are so called victims. You
are such a bull artist. You wouldn't be believed if your keyboard came
notarized.
SErebel
| |
| Glenn - USAEyes.org 2005-04-27, 10:54 pm |
| What amazes me more is that for all the people over all the years who
have contacted our organization seeking assistance for refractive
surgery induced complications, we have not had as many of these kind
of complications as is claimed by LASIK"truth", who I dare presume
does not have the same access.
Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
I am not a doctor.
| |
| serebel 2005-04-27, 10:54 pm |
| These loonies just make this stuff up as they go along. They're just
cartoon characters.
SErebel
| |
| Ragnar 2005-04-28, 8:54 am |
| I know a guy who....
You are totally full of it.
The "the pain many patients experience permanently" is your own
invention.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:09:08 -0400, "LASIKtruth"
<LASIKtruth@Yahoo_nospam.com> wrote:
>I don't' really understand the pain many patients experience permanently
>after LASIK - is it dryness pain or nerve pain or nerve pain from dryness?
>One post RS patient I know who had a very bad surface ablation has constant
>pain - he had a hyperopic treatment. His eyes always hurt. He has an amazing
>attitude even though his vision is also absolute shit. Correctable to 20/50
>in the left eye with glasses, double vision in the right. He has really
>really bad floaters too. The first things he wakes up to are all the
>floaters on the ceiling. He says he has dreams of seeing normally and then
>wakes up every day to his newly visually impaired life.
>
>
>
>A coworker has had an eye that is sore even if he touches his eyelid very
>gently since his LASIK 2 years ago.
>
>
>
>Another post-RS patient I know had a surface ablation and could really use a
>contact lens in that eye but ANYTHING that touches that eye causes
>excruciating pain.
>
>
>
>The moral of the story? Don't get LASIK.
>
| |
| doctor_my_eye@msn.com 2005-04-28, 8:54 am |
| I hope that the casual reader here always notes that Ragnar and SERebel
never have any scientific data to justify their rebuttal of these
pain-related threads. When Glenn says that he doesn't see the pain my
patients at his website, my gut reaction is "Of course you don't!"
What self-respecting pain management patient would subject himself to
the constant shilling from your pro-LASIK advocacy group?
Ragnar and SERebel are not medical professionals. They are happy LASIK
patients that have enough time to sit around all day and slam the
victims of bad LASIK to victimize them again.
The bottom line: There are chronic pain patients that have been
disabled by the results of their refractive surgery. Period. We can
go over the old arguments about "1% vs 5%" or debate the scientific
literature over trigeminal neuralgia and transferred pain...but not
today. Today lets just acknowledge that there are chronically
miserable pain management patients that feel punched in the gut by the
lies and venom that SERebel, Glenn and Ragnar place here avery day to
justify their feeble attempts to feel good about their own advocacy.
LASIKtruth wrote:
> I don't' really understand the pain many patients experience
permanently
> after LASIK - is it dryness pain or nerve pain or nerve pain from
dryness?
> One post RS patient I know who had a very bad surface ablation has
constant
> pain - he had a hyperopic treatment. His eyes always hurt. He has an
amazing
> attitude even though his vision is also absolute shit. Correctable to
20/50
> in the left eye with glasses, double vision in the right. He has
really
> really bad floaters too. The first things he wakes up to are all the
> floaters on the ceiling. He says he has dreams of seeing normally and
then
> wakes up every day to his newly visually impaired life.
>
>
>
> A coworker has had an eye that is sore even if he touches his eyelid
very
> gently since his LASIK 2 years ago.
>
>
>
> Another post-RS patient I know had a surface ablation and could
really use a
> contact lens in that eye but ANYTHING that touches that eye causes
> excruciating pain.
>
>
>
> The moral of the story? Don't get LASIK.
| |
| Glenn - USAEyes.org 2005-04-28, 11:53 am |
| I didn't say that we don't encounter patients with postoperative pain.
We do. What I said was that in the five years we have been around, we
have not had a total of three patients contact us with long term
refractive surgery induced pain as severe as LASIK"truth" describes
his acquaintances have.
It just seems very odd that an organization active in patient problem
resolution would not have seen this kind of problem, whereas a heavily
biased unidentified anti-LASIK zealot has.
Considering the other misrepresentations presented in this forum by
LASIK"truth" that have been debunked, I have little reason to believe
the latest that cannot possibly be confirmed.
If you want to believe LASIK"truth" despite her long history of lies,
misinformation, and manipulation, that is your choice. I'm simply
pointing out that this latest story seems unlikely to be accurate.
Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
I am not a doctor.
| |
| Ragnar 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| Considering over 60% of the posts on your website are written by you
or your brother, I guess you have a good idea of your website's
content.
I wouldn't get carried away calling yourself a medical professional.
Besides the fact that you are incompetent and crazy, you are not a
medical professional. You are not a medical doctor.
On 28 Apr 2005 03:31:15 -0700, doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I hope that the casual reader here always notes that Ragnar and SERebel
>never have any scientific data to justify their rebuttal of these
>pain-related threads. When Glenn says that he doesn't see the pain my
>patients at his website, my gut reaction is "Of course you don't!"
>What self-respecting pain management patient would subject himself to
>the constant shilling from your pro-LASIK advocacy group?
>Ragnar and SERebel are not medical professionals. They are happy LASIK
>patients that have enough time to sit around all day and slam the
>victims of bad LASIK to victimize them again.
>
>The bottom line: There are chronic pain patients that have been
>disabled by the results of their refractive surgery. Period. We can
>go over the old arguments about "1% vs 5%" or debate the scientific
>literature over trigeminal neuralgia and transferred pain...but not
>today. Today lets just acknowledge that there are chronically
>miserable pain management patients that feel punched in the gut by the
>lies and venom that SERebel, Glenn and Ragnar place here avery day to
>justify their feeble attempts to feel good about their own advocacy.
>LASIKtruth wrote:
>permanently
>dryness?
>constant
>amazing
>20/50
>really
>then
>very
>really use a
| |
| serebel 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
|
doctor_my_...@msn.com wrote:
> I hope that the casual reader here always notes that Ragnar and
SERebel
> never have any scientific data to justify their rebuttal of these
> pain-related threads. When Glenn says that he doesn't see the pain
my
> patients at his website, my gut reaction is "Of course you don't!"
> What self-respecting pain management patient would subject himself to
> the constant shilling from your pro-LASIK advocacy group?
> Ragnar and SERebel are not medical professionals. They are happy
LASIK
> patients that have enough time to sit around all day and slam the
> victims of bad LASIK to victimize them again.
>
> The bottom line: There are chronic pain patients that have been
> disabled by the results of their refractive surgery. Period. We can
> go over the old arguments about "1% vs 5%" or debate the scientific
> literature over trigeminal neuralgia and transferred pain...but not
> today. Today lets just acknowledge that there are chronically
> miserable pain management patients that feel punched in the gut by
the
> lies and venom that SERebel, Glenn and Ragnar place here avery day to
> justify their feeble attempts to feel good about their own advocacy.
Here comes that moron minarik who can't even get anyone to post on his
pathetic site. Now he says his idiot daughter can fight the "big one"
with him now that she graduated clown college. The only chronic and
miserable one is Minarik. He's not a doctor, just a pathetic, fat,
wannabe pop psycologist. You can tell by just reading his site. All he
does is whine about PTSD and says not one thing to help anyone, except
himself. He is just another SE fraud looking to scam money over the
internet.
SErebel
| |
| Ragnar 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| On 28 Apr 2005 18:43:50 -0700, "serebel" <serebel@aol.com> wrote:
>
>doctor_my_...@msn.com wrote:
>SERebel
>my
>LASIK
>the
>
>Here comes that moron minarik who can't even get anyone to post on his
>pathetic site. Now he says his idiot daughter can fight the "big one"
>with him now that she graduated clown college. The only chronic and
>miserable one is Minarik. He's not a doctor, just a pathetic, fat,
>wannabe pop psycologist. You can tell by just reading his site. All he
>does is whine about PTSD and says not one thing to help anyone, except
>himself. He is just another SE fraud looking to scam money over the
>internet.
>
>SErebel
I seriously doubt that his daughter would want to be associated with
his reputation. Why would she want to start out with 3 strikes
against her?
| |
| doctor_my_eye@msn.com 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| Not very long ago, when the tsunami first hit Southeast Asia, I went
over to AOL and looked at their message board about the disaster.
Hundreds of people were posting there, with kind thoughts and
thoughtful questions about how they could help.
But, there was one poster that wanted to start a thread with the
nastiest, most vile thing you have ever read. That thread had over 700
responses, and in a very sick way it got the attention that the poster
wanted. His thread was called "God Took Out the Trash"
and he actually argued that the thousands of deaths were justified
because the dead in Southeat Asia were not Christians.
I thought of that thread when I saw what Rags and SERebel wrote here.
Have you idiots no honor whatsoever? You are the lowest form of scum.
Hey Rebel, AOL is still YOUR access provider, isn't it?
| |
| serebel 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
|
doctor_my_...@msn.com wrote:
> Not very long ago, when the tsunami first hit Southeast Asia, I went
> over to AOL and looked at their message board about the disaster.
> Hundreds of people were posting there, with kind thoughts and
> thoughtful questions about how they could help.
> But, there was one poster that wanted to start a thread with the
> nastiest, most vile thing you have ever read. That thread had over
700
> responses, and in a very sick way it got the attention that the
poster
> wanted. His thread was called "God Took Out the Trash"
> and he actually argued that the thousands of deaths were justified
> because the dead in Southeat Asia were not Christians.
> I thought of that thread when I saw what Rags and SERebel wrote here.
> Have you idiots no honor whatsoever? You are the lowest form of
scum.
> Hey Rebel, AOL is still YOUR access provider, isn't it?
This coming from the whacko who runs a dead website. Minarik, you
should have been there that day. Then again, blubber floats. Leave it
to you to bring up a tsunami on a lasik BB. Obviously, you know nothing
about basic eyecare, so you go off on a tangent.
Yup, AOL is one of my ISP's.
SErebel
| |
| Ragnar 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| On 29 Apr 2005 12:53:33 -0700, doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
>Not very long ago, when the tsunami first hit Southeast Asia, I went
>over to AOL and looked at their message board about the disaster.
>Hundreds of people were posting there, with kind thoughts and
>thoughtful questions about how they could help.
>But, there was one poster that wanted to start a thread with the
>nastiest, most vile thing you have ever read. That thread had over 700
>responses, and in a very sick way it got the attention that the poster
>wanted. His thread was called "God Took Out the Trash"
>and he actually argued that the thousands of deaths were justified
>because the dead in Southeat Asia were not Christians.
>I thought of that thread when I saw what Rags and SERebel wrote here.
> Have you idiots no honor whatsoever? You are the lowest form of scum.
> Hey Rebel, AOL is still YOUR access provider, isn't it?
Actually.. the activity in this newsgroup drops to almost nothing...
until some idiot such as yourself stirs something up.
| |
| LASIKtruth 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| You're a very sick person. I know people who are devastated by chronic pain
years after their LASIK surgeries and your ignorant dismissal of this
terrible problem is deplorable.
Fortunately, even the most casual reader of this NG can quickly pick up that
you and SE rebel are uneducated morons.
My own eyes were hurting last night over a year out from LASIK. LASIK
damages eyes. Get it through your head. Your eyes are damaged, too. It's not
a question of whether or not LASIK harms your eyes... it's a question of
timing and degree. Will you have ectasia immediately? Years later? Will your
dry eye be mild or serious or debilitating? Will you have dry eye problems
after the first year? After 3 years? Five years? When you hit 50? 60?
There are post-LASIK individuals with dry eye so devastating they can't
work. They are in constant pain, wear goggles and their suffering is very
real and tragic.
"Ragnar" <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dt1171lpml9vhn49c4qsfrf7rjvpmpiv3h@4ax.com...
>I know a guy who....
>
> You are totally full of it.
> The "the pain many patients experience permanently" is your own
> invention.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:09:08 -0400, "LASIKtruth"
> <LASIKtruth@Yahoo_nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
| |
|
| Yes, I agree it is deplorable for people to dismiss others who have
LASIK problems just because one has had a good outcome. There are
documented cases of unresolvable complications.
It is also dangerous to extrapolate from your own bad outcome and
conclude that everyone is a ticking time bomb waiting for some kind of
painful and catastrophic complication to manifest itself. There is no
data to support this.
Neither extreme way of thinking does anything to help pre- or post-LASIK
consumers understand the real issues.
It reminds me of Olympic judging where the high and low scores are
thrown out in order to protect against favoritism and avoid
discrimination.
In article <1114869343.d2a58aac9a3d0bdd0a27a2bb4e0a1624@teranews>,
"LASIKtruth" <LASIKtruth@Yahoo_nospam.com> wrote:
> You're a very sick person. I know people who are devastated by chronic pain
> years after their LASIK surgeries and your ignorant dismissal of this
> terrible problem is deplorable.
> My own eyes were hurting last night over a year out from LASIK. LASIK
> damages eyes. Get it through your head. Your eyes are damaged, too. It's not
> a question of whether or not LASIK harms your eyes... it's a question of
> timing and degree. Will you have ectasia immediately? Years later? Will your
> dry eye be mild or serious or debilitating? Will you have dry eye problems
> after the first year? After 3 years? Five years? When you hit 50? 60?
>
> There are post-LASIK individuals with dry eye so devastating they can't
> work. They are in constant pain, wear goggles and their suffering is very
> real and tragic.
>
--
~RT
The truth lies somewhere between Ragnar and LASIKtruth
Two sides of the same coin
| |
| LASIKtruth 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| Well, studies documenting that 100% of LASIK cases have pathology are
available. No extrapolation needed.
"RT" <RTMD24@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RTMD24-FA5783.10512730042005@newssvr13-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> Yes, I agree it is deplorable for people to dismiss others who have
> LASIK problems just because one has had a good outcome. There are
> documented cases of unresolvable complications.
>
> It is also dangerous to extrapolate from your own bad outcome and
> conclude that everyone is a ticking time bomb waiting for some kind of
> painful and catastrophic complication to manifest itself. There is no
> data to support this.
>
> Neither extreme way of thinking does anything to help pre- or post-LASIK
> consumers understand the real issues.
>
> It reminds me of Olympic judging where the high and low scores are
> thrown out in order to protect against favoritism and avoid
> discrimination.
>
> In article <1114869343.d2a58aac9a3d0bdd0a27a2bb4e0a1624@teranews>,
> "LASIKtruth" <LASIKtruth@Yahoo_nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> --
> ~RT
> The truth lies somewhere between Ragnar and LASIKtruth
> Two sides of the same coin
| |
| Glenn - USAEyes.org 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| 100% of anyone who has any surgery of any kind have "pathology".
Perhaps you should consider how the term "pathology" is used in
medical practice before you attempt to use it in your ongoing tirade
against LASIK.
Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
I am not a doctor.
| |
| LASIKtruth 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| Glenn, LASIK is an ELECTIVE surgery and the pathologies that are being
determined to be universal in patients are serious. Performing LASIK surgery
on a healthy eye does harm to that eye, which is a violation of the
hippocratic oath and therefore malpractice. Whatever happened to 'First do
no harm?'
"Glenn - USAEyes.org" <glenn.hageleSTOPSPAM@USAEyes.org> wrote in message
news:n6b7711rinhvss4jl4q8l6fh1dfr2foheu@4ax.com...
> 100% of anyone who has any surgery of any kind have "pathology".
> Perhaps you should consider how the term "pathology" is used in
> medical practice before you attempt to use it in your ongoing tirade
> against LASIK.
>
> Glenn Hagele
> Executive Director
> Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
>
> Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
>
> http://www.USAEyes.org
> http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
>
> I am not a doctor.
| |
| Glenn - USAEyes.org 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| I would think that after years of this, you would find something
better than this to denounce LASIK.
Circumcision is a violation of the oath too, and yet every year tens
of thousands of infants are circumcised without religious purpose and
with absolutely no proven medical benefit whatsoever.
At least with LASIK the patients are adults, have the opportunity to
do their own research, come to their own conclusions, and make an
informed decision if they want to have elective surgery.
LASIK is not for everybody, but it also is not the public health
problem you apparently want others to believe it is. In fact, you
made the decision to have this elective surgery too.
Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
I am not a doctor.
| |
| LASIKtruth 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| You must have me confused with someone else. Patients are deceived by the
LASIK industry, by doctors and all the problems with LASIK are not handled
appropriately by the FDA. So patients go into the LASIK procedure
underinformed. A surgeon had a bad LASIK outcome within the past year - he's
a medical professional and he really couldn't find out what he needed to
know about problems with LASIK until it was too late. LASIK's shortcomings
are not well-advertised and if you don't know about them, that is what
specifically to research, it is hard to uncover them.
Then there are people like you trying to gloss over the seriousness of the
LASIK problem for personal profit.
No rigorous double-blinded controlled study has ever been done on LASIK and
no agency is policing outcomes. Doctors are covering up their poor outcomes,
quietly sending them to RGP fitters in the hope that some of the most
damaged patients will have some of their visual quality restored. Some
patients have too much nerve damage and eyes that are too dry for the only
'fix' available to control distortions - hard contact lenses.
People don't go get LASIK so that they can end up with worse vision with
glasses or contacts than before LASIK but this happens all too often. Plus
they end up with the nerve damage we talked about, debris under the flap and
a host of other problems that could someday lead to the need for a corneal
transplant.
I wish the LASIK industry, doctors and the FDA would have provided me enough
information to make an informed decision. I was denied this right, as most
patients are.
"Glenn - USAEyes.org" <glenn.hageleSTOPSPAM@USAEyes.org> wrote in message
news:m5p7719nh7o9c4sb6ucj4cius8hc8l2fdv@4ax.com...
>I would think that after years of this, you would find something
> better than this to denounce LASIK.
>
> Circumcision is a violation of the oath too, and yet every year tens
> of thousands of infants are circumcised without religious purpose and
> with absolutely no proven medical benefit whatsoever.
>
> At least with LASIK the patients are adults, have the opportunity to
> do their own research, come to their own conclusions, and make an
> informed decision if they want to have elective surgery.
>
> LASIK is not for everybody, but it also is not the public health
> problem you apparently want others to believe it is. In fact, you
> made the decision to have this elective surgery too.
>
> Glenn Hagele
> Executive Director
> Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
>
> Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
>
> http://www.USAEyes.org
> http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
>
> I am not a doctor.
| |
| serebel 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| Funny how us uneducated morons are enjoying our lasik outcomes and you
"smart" people whine on and on. Oh boo hoo!!!
SErebel
| |
| serebel 2005-05-01, 5:57 pm |
| You were given plenty of info to make an informed decision, you were
denied nothing. You just like to drone on and on. Wah, wah, wah, blame
anyone else but me.
SErebel
|
| |
|
|