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Home > Archive > Lasik Eyes Surgery > December 2005 > INFORMED CONSENT, why no LASIK patient can provide it
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INFORMED CONSENT, why no LASIK patient can provide it
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| How can a patient be considered to be adequately informed if they have
no idea that the LASIK procedure increases the distortions in the
cornea in virgin eyes? Can you find me an informed consent document
that explains loss of contrast sensitivity, increased higher order
aberrations and corneal nerve damage? If you can't, then patients are
not receiving adequate informed consent. What stats do you think
patients are handed so that they can review LASIK outcomes? If they
have surgery with a VISX laser they are given stats with 70% of the
clinical outcomes MISSING.
So unless someone is given access to ALL of the PMA data (we're still
waiting, it may take the freedom of information act... lawsuits etc...)
patients have know idea what the real outcomes were in clinical trials
and therefore are not able to provide informed consent for their
procedure.
This alone is a gross affront to medical ethics and informed consent
and is a good reason to stop LASIK right now.
I repeat, there is no informed consent for LASIK!
I'm still looking for a LASIK patient that fully understood that their
flap would never heal, their cornea would bulge, that they'd end up
with nerve damage, that their odds of hitting plano at 12 months were
(have we estimated around 50%?) that they'd have junk under their flap
and microstriae, that they'd lose contrast sensitivity... and still
signed a consent form that clearly explained all of these outcomes.
Of course they ultimately would be unable to provide informed consent
because the bulk of the clinical trials outcome data was witheld from
them.
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| You and others have said time before that many patients arent fully
informed before getting lasik or laser surgury. I have talked to some
and one guy didnt even know you can get lasik without a flap! (its
called prk or lasek) and many presbyopic people arent informed that
they will lose their near vision after RS. I really extend my
consolences for low myopes over 35 because they are trading minus
glasses for plus glasses and ruining their eyes in the process. Some
actually *increase* their dependancy on glasses. I know a few who ended
in bifocals because they gave up their late gift of myopia! Most dont
know that all lasers induce more aberrations, I didnt know either at
one time! Many people think lasik gives perfect vision, but this
absolutely is not true. It will get you closer to plano but many people
still need glasses. Finally, they exaggerate 20/20 results. See this
thread, Eye!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....4caf530f116aae3
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| Ragnar 2005-12-19, 12:55 pm |
| Someone has misinformed you.
LASEK invovles a flap, someone told you it didn't. However, the LASEK
flap is so thin that the advantages of having a flap are pretty much
lost and the procedure is essentially identical to PRK.
PRK is an alternative to LASIK which is better for a very small
percentage of refractive surgery patients. Certainly under 5% would
do better with PRK than LASIK. Some people will disagree with that,
they are wrong.
There is no surgery where the patient is fully informed. That would
take months or years for even intelligent people to absorb and
frankly, most people are not capable of understanding a surgery. Keep
in mind that the IQ of 100 is the average IQ of a human. That
roughly means that 50% of people have double digit IQs. Even a
person of average intelligence with an IQ of 100 is not capable of
understanding the information given to them.
Even in your short post below, you have more things wrong than right.
Also, your back and forth pat on the back with Eye is getting a bit
silly.
On 18 Dec 2005 17:41:03 -0800, "Ace" <acemanvx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You and others have said time before that many patients arent fully
>informed before getting lasik or laser surgury. I have talked to some
>and one guy didnt even know you can get lasik without a flap! (its
>called prk or lasek) and many presbyopic people arent informed that
>they will lose their near vision after RS. I really extend my
>consolences for low myopes over 35 because they are trading minus
>glasses for plus glasses and ruining their eyes in the process. Some
>actually *increase* their dependancy on glasses. I know a few who ended
>in bifocals because they gave up their late gift of myopia! Most dont
>know that all lasers induce more aberrations, I didnt know either at
>one time! Many people think lasik gives perfect vision, but this
>absolutely is not true. It will get you closer to plano but many people
>still need glasses. Finally, they exaggerate 20/20 results. See this
>thread, Eye!
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt....4caf530f116aae3
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| Lasek only moves apart the ephiplitical layer but truth be told often
the ephi layer gets damaged then it becomes prk. No matter, that layer
grows back in days, bandage contact can be removed then. PRK is very
good for low myopes and even some moderate myopes. The risks of haze is
slight for low(er) pescriptions and not having a flap is advantegous,
especially if you do contact sports like boxing. Also alot of the
complications arises from flap problems which PRK avoids and while
theres other problems like haze and long healing times, its "worth" it
for many, especially lower myopes, those with mild dry eyes, those who
do contact sports. PRK is also more forgiving on dry eyes than lasik.
It doesnt take a year to be fully informed. More like 1-3 months and
visits to a few doctors and talking about it with several people, both
online and in person. Basically learn everything there is to lasik(but
you dont have to learn how to do lasik or use a laser machine) just
learn about the cause and effects and then youll be able to weigh the
risks and make an informed decision. Some people are at much higher
risk than others(big pupils, dry eyes, thin corneas, high pescription,
etc)
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| In article <1135027288.127728.46460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Ace" <acemanvx@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Basically learn everything there is to lasik(but
> you dont have to learn how to do lasik or use a laser machine)
Really? that is so enlightening and a load off many I'm sure.
I considered learning how to laser my own eyes before having LASIK done,
but I didn't have a weekend to spare. I hired someone else to do it for
me.
--
~RT
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RT wrote:
> In article <1135027288.127728.46460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> "Ace" <acemanvx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Really? that is so enlightening and a load off many I'm sure.
>
> I considered learning how to laser my own eyes before having LASIK done,
> but I didn't have a weekend to spare. I hired someone else to do it for
> me.
>
ROFLMAO
> --
> ~RT
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| "I considered learning how to laser my own eyes before having LASIK
done,
but I didn't have a weekend to spare. I hired someone else to do it for
me."
me thinks it would be impossible to self laser. you wouldnt be able to
"see" what you were doing and if something goes wrong you may not even
know. Yes you did a great job hiring an experienced surgeon to help you
with lasik, you just lay down and look at the red light and he will
take care of the rest 
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