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Home > Archive > Lasik Eyes Surgery > October 2004 > Comparing Gastric Bypass to LASIK
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Comparing Gastric Bypass to LASIK
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| Wizkid 2004-10-13, 7:11 pm |
| There is a thread here that is trying to compare gastric bypass
(bariatric surgery) to LASIK. This is a non-sensical comparison as
LASIK is purely an elective and cosmetic procedure. Gastric bypass is
not. If you want to disagree, I urge you to read both this month's
JAMA and Archives of Surgery. Each has an article fully detailing the
healthcare benefits of bariatric surgery (gastric bypass or LapBand
surgery). Morbid obesity is now considered an epidemic, with profound
consequences on the future of our healthcare system. With the positive
outcomes of bariatric surgery now becoming evident, there is a reason
why Medicare will convene a conference in November to look into the
full reimbursement these procedures.
LASIK is not even in the same ballpark. Bariatric surgery reduces
problems and costs downstream. It is quite possible that LASIK will do
just the opposite.
WK
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| So, LASIK is purely elective and cosmetic? There is nothing cosmetic
about it at all. When it's done, nobody can tell you even had
anything done. Cosmetic surgery involves changing your appearance.
LASIK does not alter one's appearance at all.
As for elective, other than emergency surgery to prevent death, just
what surgery isn't elective?
On 13 Oct 2004 11:49:50 -0700, gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote:
>There is a thread here that is trying to compare gastric bypass
>(bariatric surgery) to LASIK. This is a non-sensical comparison as
>LASIK is purely an elective and cosmetic procedure. Gastric bypass is
>not. If you want to disagree, I urge you to read both this month's
>JAMA and Archives of Surgery. Each has an article fully detailing the
>healthcare benefits of bariatric surgery (gastric bypass or LapBand
>surgery). Morbid obesity is now considered an epidemic, with profound
>consequences on the future of our healthcare system. With the positive
>outcomes of bariatric surgery now becoming evident, there is a reason
>why Medicare will convene a conference in November to look into the
>full reimbursement these procedures.
>
>LASIK is not even in the same ballpark. Bariatric surgery reduces
>problems and costs downstream. It is quite possible that LASIK will do
>just the opposite.
>WK
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| serebel 2004-10-13, 10:08 pm |
| gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote in message news:<c11e3ecf.0410131049.6820f84a@posting.google.com>...
> There is a thread here that is trying to compare gastric bypass
> (bariatric surgery) to LASIK. This is a non-sensical comparison as
> LASIK is purely an elective and cosmetic procedure. Gastric bypass is
> not. If you want to disagree, I urge you to read both this month's
> JAMA and Archives of Surgery. Each has an article fully detailing the
> healthcare benefits of bariatric surgery (gastric bypass or LapBand
> surgery). Morbid obesity is now considered an epidemic, with profound
> consequences on the future of our healthcare system. With the positive
> outcomes of bariatric surgery now becoming evident, there is a reason
> why Medicare will convene a conference in November to look into the
> full reimbursement these procedures.
>
> LASIK is not even in the same ballpark. Bariatric surgery reduces
> problems and costs downstream. It is quite possible that LASIK will do
> just the opposite.
> WK
I completly agree with this assessment
SErebel
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| Wizkid 2004-10-14, 11:08 am |
| Dear RM,
Surgery is categorized as medically necessary, elective with the goal
of improving an individual's health, and cosmetic. Examples elective
surgery include bariatric surgery, surgery for GERD, etc. These
surgeries, while not medically necessary, improve a person's overall
short and/or long term health. Plastic (except some reconstructive)
surgery, and refractive surgery are not medically necessary and have
no effect on the short term or long term health of the patient.
WK
RM <rm@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<lq3rm0piu6b33qm93ldmdocv4u1qficb3e@4ax.com>...[vbcol=seagreen]
> So, LASIK is purely elective and cosmetic? There is nothing cosmetic
> about it at all. When it's done, nobody can tell you even had
> anything done. Cosmetic surgery involves changing your appearance.
> LASIK does not alter one's appearance at all.
> As for elective, other than emergency surgery to prevent death, just
> what surgery isn't elective?
>
> On 13 Oct 2004 11:49:50 -0700, gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote:
>
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| DoctorMyEye 2004-10-14, 7:13 pm |
| In our television market, the morning newscast is full of commercials
for "The Blah Blah Bariatric Center, Our Results Will Change Your
Life". My patient noted in that thread was "sold" a bypass when he
was 6'1"tall and 280 pounds.
That is not morbid obesity.
The point of the thread is that problem LASIKs often exist because
aggressive surgeons are performing LASIK on manic-depressives, brittle
diabetics and Marfans Syndrome patients. The industry has grown to be
a large enough cash cow that it is "sucking in" people who should be
disqualified.
My thread was not intended to "damn" gastric bypass. It was intended
to "damn" the selling of gastric bypass to moderately overweight lazy
Americans with a disposable income that would let them buy into the
idea that exercise and diet aren't needed when the bypass is such an
easy fix. The psych counseling part of bypass surgery teaches people
how to eat well for the rest of their lives. But, I have seen
patients who have bone density loss and signs of malnutrition because
they never "got it", and they keep eating junk food after their bypass
because that was always their comfort food before the bypass. The
"sizzle" of the TV ads angers me because it doesn't emphasize the
LIFESTYLE CHANGE that makes a bypass work.
serebel@aol.com (serebel) wrote in message news:<6ddf3bb5.0410131834.6a9ded26@posting.google.com>...
> gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote in message news:<c11e3ecf.0410131049.6820f84a@posting.google.com>...
>
> I completly agree with this assessment
>
> SErebel
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| I'll grant you that it's elective surgery, but it's not cosmetic
surgery. I have a book by the much renowned Dr. Slade (a real name,
not a made up one) who details that it's in no way cosmetic surgery.
Having suffered from GERD in the past, I am not aware that there is
any surgery for it directly, although indirectly removing the gall
bladder might eliminate it. Otherwise it can be controlled someone
with medication to control the reflux and over production of acid and
bile.
This hair-splitting of symantics should probably be avoided. Before
long we will be drifiting into childbirth, abortions, c-sections,
circumcisions, etc. and debating whether they are elective procedures
or not. I think we can just end this debate.
On 14 Oct 2004 07:15:21 -0700, gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>Dear RM,
>Surgery is categorized as medically necessary, elective with the goal
>of improving an individual's health, and cosmetic. Examples elective
>surgery include bariatric surgery, surgery for GERD, etc. These
>surgeries, while not medically necessary, improve a person's overall
>short and/or long term health. Plastic (except some reconstructive)
>surgery, and refractive surgery are not medically necessary and have
>no effect on the short term or long term health of the patient.
>WK
>
>RM <rm@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<lq3rm0piu6b33qm93ldmdocv4u1qficb3e@4ax.com>...
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| serebel 2004-10-14, 10:09 pm |
| gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote in message news:<c11e3ecf.0410140615.76134169@posting.google.com>...
> Dear RM,
> Surgery is categorized as medically necessary, elective with the goal
> of improving an individual's health, and cosmetic. Examples elective
> surgery include bariatric surgery, surgery for GERD, etc. These
> surgeries, while not medically necessary, improve a person's overall
> short and/or long term health. Plastic (except some reconstructive)
> surgery, and refractive surgery are not medically necessary and have
> no effect on the short term or long term health of the patient.
> WK
>
Surgery for GERD mostly is necessary, if neglected can lead to
ulceration and even cancer of the esophagus.
SErebel
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| Wizkid 2004-10-15, 7:25 pm |
| I think that you will find a dispute over this. Surgeons feel that
surgery should be indicated for many more than are having it, while
gastroenterologists feel differently. WK
serebel@aol.com (serebel) wrote in message news:<6ddf3bb5.0410141642.5e5a2d47@posting.google.com>...
> gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote in message news:<c11e3ecf.0410140615.76134169@posting.google.com>...
>
>
> Surgery for GERD mostly is necessary, if neglected can lead to
> ulceration and even cancer of the esophagus.
>
> SErebel
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| serebel 2004-10-15, 10:08 pm |
| doctor_my_eye@msn.com (DoctorMyEye) wrote in message news.
>
> The point of the thread is that problem LASIKs often exist because
> aggressive surgeons are performing LASIK on manic-depressives, brittle
> diabetics and Marfans Syndrome patients. The industry has grown to be
> a large enough cash cow that it is "sucking in" people who should be
> disqualified.
>
>
This statement is only one side of the coin. There are people who do
not list on the "questionaire" their actual medical history, either
deliberately or thinking that their history is not relevent. Surgeons
don't always get the info from them that they need to know.
SErebel
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| On 15 Oct 2004 18:39:32 -0700, serebel@aol.com (serebel) wrote:
>doctor_my_eye@msn.com (DoctorMyEye) wrote in message news.
>
>This statement is only one side of the coin. There are people who do
>not list on the "questionaire" their actual medical history, either
>deliberately or thinking that their history is not relevent. Surgeons
>don't always get the info from them that they need to know.
>
>
>SErebel
That's a problem in all areas of health care. For instance, LVI's
optical division called EyeglassesWorld routinely was dispensing
expired and used contact lenses. I wonder how much of a risk a
patient has from acquiring a disease from a used contact lens.
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| Glenn - USAEyes.org 2004-10-17, 7:11 pm |
| On 15 Oct 2004 12:00:25 -0700, gospa68@aol.com (Wizkid) wrote:
>I think that you will find a dispute over this. Surgeons feel that
>surgery should be indicated for many more than are having it, while
>gastroenterologists feel differently. WK
>
Not unlike ophthalmology and optometry.
Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
I am not a doctor.
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| Gastric Bypass is also the only known possible cure for type 2
diabetes. A high percentage of Diabetics who have the procedure
experience a complete cessation of symptoms of Diabetes and are no
longer insulin dependant. What is really interesting about this is the
fact that the blood sugar levels return to normal long before you
would imagine they would. It can happen in a matter of a few weeks
even though the weight loss is not yet so great that you would think
it could have such a profound effect. I watched my Mother die of
diabetes 2 years ago. I had beginning stages of diabetes and truly do
not consider it an elective surgery. It saved my life as far as I am
concerned. Just my 2 cents. Now I am back to oblivion.... ;o)
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