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Home > Archive > Impotence Support > September 2006 > why the delay?
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| Michael 2006-09-18, 2:21 am |
| Does anyone know of the physical reason why men experience delayed
ejacualations because of ED drugs? I read the patient inserts for Viagra and
Cialis and don't remember reading that as a side effect. If it is a side
effect, shouldn't that be listed??
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Michael wrote:
> Does anyone know of the physical reason why men experience delayed
> ejacualations because of ED drugs? I read the patient inserts for Viagra and
> Cialis and don't remember reading that as a side effect. If it is a side
> effect, shouldn't that be listed??
________
It probably should be.
This seems to be a dosage-related phenomenon; men who need higher doses
of the ED pills or take higher dosages because they prefer the effect
of that are more likely to experience ejaculation delay than those who
can get away with less.
Jim
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| irwell 2006-09-18, 4:22 pm |
| On 18 Sep 2006 11:06:48 -0700, "Jim" <avocet@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Michael wrote:
>
>________
>
>It probably should be.
>
>This seems to be a dosage-related phenomenon; men who need higher doses
>of the ED pills or take higher dosages because they prefer the effect
>of that are more likely to experience ejaculation delay than those who
>can get away with less.
>
>Jim
Spending a little more time on foreplay
will help with delayed ejacs.
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| Mungy@HorribleISP.gov 2006-09-18, 4:22 pm |
| "Jim" <avocet@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>Michael wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>It probably should be.
>This seems to be a dosage-related phenomenon; men who need higher doses
>of the ED pills or take higher dosages because they prefer the effect
>of that are more likely to experience ejaculation delay than those who
>can get away with less.
As one who suffers a lot from delayed ejaculation I don't agree that
it is caused by any of the PDE5-suppressor drugs. There's no
noticeable difference for me on any of them and without them
ejaculation is delayed indefinitely.
However, I've been reading a lot of urology texts and magazines
recently--they really have no idea of what causes delayed ejaculation
except that there's a high correlation with bph--and one thing that
struck me was a comment about retrograde ejaculation that was not
obviously caused by any physical abnormality (e.g. not post-TURP). One
urologist contended that guys playing sex games where they
deliberately try to suppress ejaculation after the emission process
has started risk having the body learn that practice and then being
unable to un-learn it. He says that although they think they're
suppressing the ejaculation what they're really doing is opening the
bladder neck and relieving the pressure in the prostatic urethra by
allowing the ejaculate to flow back into the bladder. Because the
control over the bladder neck is not 100% conscious (like your rate of
breathing) you can't easily reverse the process.
Of course this guy doesn't reference any study and the idea might be a
croc of shit but there seems to be some logic there. Even without
playing any sex games when we were teenagers didn't we try to hold off
for as long as possible at great difficulty? I know I did. Built up
the semen quantity as a side effect. But if your body learns to do
this and then over the years the quantity of semen decreases and the
deferral is no longer necessary but your body still continues along
its merry way of delaying ejaculation, and delaying and delaying...
Just a thought.
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| Peabody 2006-09-18, 9:23 pm |
| Michael says...
> Does anyone know of the physical reason why men
> experience delayed ejacualations because of ED drugs? I
> read the patient inserts for Viagra and Cialis and don't
> remember reading that as a side effect. If it is a side
> effect, shouldn't that be listed??
I don't know why the effect takes place, but it is included
as a possible side effect in the Viagra prescribing
information, well, kinda:
The following events occurred in <2% of patients in
controlled clinical trials; a causal relationship to VIAGRA
is uncertain. Reported events include those with a
plausible relation to drug use; omitted are minor events
and reports too imprecise to be meaningful:
....snip...
Urogenital: cystitis, nocturia, urinary frequency, breast
enlargement, urinary incontinence, abnormal ejaculation,
genital edema and anorgasmia.
The key word being "anorgasmia".
But even so, I think there is some disconnect on this issue
because from what is reported here and elsewhere,
significantly delayed orgasm occurs with a lot more than <2%
of those taking these drugs, and certainly far more
frequently than the other items in the "urogenital" list.
It's hard to believe the pharma's don't know about it, but
not at all clear why they wouldn't list it. It would be a
plus for some users.
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| Wanderer 2006-09-18, 9:23 pm |
| On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:16:33 -0400, Michael wrote
(in article <MpSdnayxsuAIkpPYnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com> ):
> Does anyone know of the physical reason why men experience delayed
> ejacualations because of ED drugs? I read the patient inserts for Viagra and
> Cialis and don't remember reading that as a side effect. If it is a side
> effect, shouldn't that be listed??
I think some of it is coincidental. From what I've read, delayed orgasm is a
fairly natural consequence of aging. And most of us who are in the ED
category are no spring chickens. But the drugs do seem to exacerbate it, and
I'm not sure Jim is right that it is dosage dependent. You are definitely
asking the right question: what is the mechanism that causes it? I wonder if
the strength of the erection itself may be a factor. I recall that in my
younger days, when I got one of those rock hard plate-breaking erections, it
usually took me longer to reach orgasm. Maybe something in the rigidity of
the erection causes loss of sensation"? Just a wild XXX guess. I stopped
worrying about this long ago. If I can't come today, I'll come tomorrow.
XXXXing is fun anyway. (Apologies to the gotta cum right now crowd.)
Wanderer
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| Wanderer wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:16:33 -0400, Michael wrote
> (in article <MpSdnayxsuAIkpPYnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com> ):
>
>
>
> I think some of it is coincidental. From what I've read, delayed orgasm is a
> fairly natural consequence of aging. And most of us who are in the ED
> category are no spring chickens. But the drugs do seem to exacerbate it, and
> I'm not sure Jim is right that it is dosage dependent. You are definitely
> asking the right question: what is the mechanism that causes it? I wonder if
> the strength of the erection itself may be a factor. I recall that in my
> younger days, when I got one of those rock hard plate-breaking erections, it
> usually took me longer to reach orgasm. Maybe something in the rigidity of
> the erection causes loss of sensation"? Just a wild XXX guess. I stopped
> worrying about this long ago. If I can't come today, I'll come tomorrow.
> XXXXing is fun anyway. (Apologies to the gotta cum right now crowd.)
>
> Wanderer
>
>
My experience parallels Wanderer's. While I've seldom had delayed ejac
(perhaps a couple of dozen times), most of those instances happened
before I turned 55 and during each one I can recall, I was rock hard
with a distended glans.
This is sort of the opposite situation from seems to cause P.E. for me
-- poor rigidity and a soft glans. (which may or may not trigger some
subconscious anxiety... etc. etc.) ...Lmac
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| Peabody 2006-09-19, 4:22 pm |
| LMac says...
[vbcol=seagreen]
Well, I thought that too. But, I've found that wearing a
cockring doesn't further slow things down for me. In fact,
I finish more quickly with a cockring, and it definitely
does the plumped-up glans thing. So, for me the only common
factor is the Cialis I take. During those periods when I've
been off it for a while, I do reach orgasm more quickly.
Well, it's just probably one of those individual things.
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Mungy@HorribleISP.gov wrote:
....and one thing that
> struck me was a comment about retrograde ejaculation that was not
> obviously caused by any physical abnormality (e.g. not post-TURP). One
> urologist contended that guys playing sex games where they
> deliberately try to suppress ejaculation after the emission process
> has started risk having the body learn that practice and then being
> unable to un-learn it. He says that although they think they're
> suppressing the ejaculation what they're really doing is opening the
> bladder neck and relieving the pressure in the prostatic urethra by
> allowing the ejaculate to flow back into the bladder. Because the
> control over the bladder neck is not 100% conscious (like your rate of
> breathing) you can't easily reverse the process.
_________
A problem with repeated retrograde ejaculation (non-surgically caused)
is not so much learned-behavior but a gradual weakening of the bladder
neck itself. Retrograde ejaculation is pretty much a harmless event,
however the more often it occurs, the more often it is likely to occur
in the future as the valve weakens.
A few years ago I was taking a blood pressure med which caused this
occasionally. No big deal. But over the course of some months I was
shooting backward about half the times. Changed B/P meds and within a
couple weeks I was ejaculating normally. Hasn't happened since.
Jim
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| Michael wrote:
> Does anyone know of the physical reason why men experience delayed
> ejacualations because of ED drugs? I read the patient inserts for Viagra and
> Cialis and don't remember reading that as a side effect. If it is a side
> effect, shouldn't that be listed??
>
>
>
Maybe a lot of guys, including me would consider that to
be a desirable side effect. I think if I was in the business I would
make sure everyone knew about it!!
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