Impotence Support - What happens when one leaves Androlgel/testosterone replacement?

Author

What happens when one leaves Androlgel/testosterone replacement?

Quiz

2006-08-22, 9:22 pm

Been on Androlgel for about 4 years. Starting to notice heart stuff..huge
changes for no reason can determine. Feeling chest pressure/pain from
exersion. Huge red neck stuff...have read excessive/continual use can
affect circulation. Have acquired that weird round redneck thing rounding
about 8 or 10 inches under neck and now starting to cover neck....
Have read this can be a result of circulatory stimulation. Have read people
sexually stimulated often show this same symptom thing....
Been using same amount...or so...pushing to max...back off when not feeling
as think should...
Now thinking of going off...but concerned how going off Androgel would
affect...
Think might be depression...low energy...low libido...but already suffering
that..
Have never been depressive...or low energy...or low libido...know have low
testosterone...
Was hoping Androgel would correct...now worried it is having adverse
affect...
Ideas?

Losher Ooka

2006-08-23, 2:22 am

On 2006-08-23, Quiz <quiz@home.com> wrote:
> Been on Androlgel for about 4 years. Starting to notice heart stuff..huge
> changes for no reason can determine. Feeling chest pressure/pain from
> exersion. Huge red neck stuff...have read excessive/continual use can
> affect circulation. Have acquired that weird round redneck thing rounding
> about 8 or 10 inches under neck and now starting to cover neck....
> Have read this can be a result of circulatory stimulation. Have read people
> sexually stimulated often show this same symptom thing....
> Been using same amount...or so...pushing to max...back off when not feeling
> as think should...
> Now thinking of going off...but concerned how going off Androgel would
> affect...
> Think might be depression...low energy...low libido...but already suffering
> that..
> Have never been depressive...or low energy...or low libido...know have low
> testosterone...
> Was hoping Androgel would correct...now worried it is having adverse
> affect...
> Ideas?

Sorry, but chest pressure/pain on exertion is not generally a side
effect of Androgel as far as I'm aware, and should _always_ be
evaluated by a professional in case it's cardiac-related.

If it _is_ cardiac, it's really, really, really important to avoid
that first heart attack at all costs, as many men never survive it.
There are lots of drugs they can use, but do yourself a favor and get
evaluated like, today...

As for the red-neck, sorry, I've no idea.

Losher

Muerta

2006-08-23, 8:21 am

"Quiz" <quiz@home.com> wrote in message
news:QeCdnYFKTtkpB3bZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@midco.net...
> Been on Androlgel for about 4 years. Starting to notice heart stuff..huge
> changes for no reason can determine. Feeling chest pressure/pain from
> exersion. Huge red neck stuff...have read excessive/continual use can
> affect circulation. Have acquired that weird round redneck thing rounding
> about 8 or 10 inches under neck and now starting to cover neck....
> Have read this can be a result of circulatory stimulation. Have read
> people sexually stimulated often show this same symptom thing....
> Been using same amount...or so...pushing to max...back off when not
> feeling as think should...
> Now thinking of going off...but concerned how going off Androgel would
> affect...
> Think might be depression...low energy...low libido...but already
> suffering that..
> Have never been depressive...or low energy...or low libido...know have low
> testosterone...
> Was hoping Androgel would correct...now worried it is having adverse
> affect...
> Ideas?
>
>

I was on androgel for 1 1/2 years, until I found out about the issue with
it's heavy aromatazation to estrogen.

Had friends who did the same thing, and one guy on the group here was taking
arimidex to keep his estrogen down.

Now, be aware that elevated estrogen in men is a very, very bad thing. It
has been attributed to heart attacks(Framingham heart report), and at the
very least, it shuts down the testosterone receptors, causes weight gain,
and prostate problems.

Have you ever had your Estradiol (E2) checked? I think you'll be in for a
*big* surprise if you do.

Now then, back to your original question.

If you go off the androgel, assuming it's doing you any good at all, it will
on the average take you 6-12 weeks to get back to the stage that put you on
androgel in the first place.

Yes, you will feel like shit, have nightsweats, and cry when you watch
movies.

Ain't that fun.

If you want to speed that up, have your doc put you on HCG injections that
will stimulate leydig cell growth. That treatment is recommended by the
A.A.C.E (endocronologists).

That course would probably shorten you time to a few weeks, *if* you are not
primary hypogonadnal.

I did HMG, then HCG for a year, and found out I was primary.

Testosterone cypionate has been a godsend to me (4 years & grinning).

BTW, what's the doc say about your affliction?

Get an E2 test, bud. It can save your life.

stryped

2006-08-23, 4:22 pm

x-no-archive:yes

I am male and 35. Beenon Androgel for about 5 years. My testosterone
was low normal for my range. (Averaged about 2-300) ZWith the lowest
dose of androgel it is 600 or so.

What are these problems? You have me worried. I was thinking of geting
off as well.
Muerta wrote:
> "Quiz" <quiz@home.com> wrote in message
> news:QeCdnYFKTtkpB3bZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@midco.net...
>
> I was on androgel for 1 1/2 years, until I found out about the issue with
> it's heavy aromatazation to estrogen.
>
> Had friends who did the same thing, and one guy on the group here was taking
> arimidex to keep his estrogen down.
>
> Now, be aware that elevated estrogen in men is a very, very bad thing. It
> has been attributed to heart attacks(Framingham heart report), and at the
> very least, it shuts down the testosterone receptors, causes weight gain,
> and prostate problems.
>
> Have you ever had your Estradiol (E2) checked? I think you'll be in for a
> *big* surprise if you do.
>
> Now then, back to your original question.
>
> If you go off the androgel, assuming it's doing you any good at all, it will
> on the average take you 6-12 weeks to get back to the stage that put you on
> androgel in the first place.
>
> Yes, you will feel like shit, have nightsweats, and cry when you watch
> movies.
>
> Ain't that fun.
>
> If you want to speed that up, have your doc put you on HCG injections that
> will stimulate leydig cell growth. That treatment is recommended by the
> A.A.C.E (endocronologists).
>
> That course would probably shorten you time to a few weeks, *if* you are not
> primary hypogonadnal.
>
> I did HMG, then HCG for a year, and found out I was primary.
>
> Testosterone cypionate has been a godsend to me (4 years & grinning).
>
> BTW, what's the doc say about your affliction?
>
> Get an E2 test, bud. It can save your life.

LMac

2006-08-23, 4:22 pm

stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I am male and 35. Beenon Androgel for about 5 years. My testosterone
> was low normal for my range. (Averaged about 2-300) ZWith the lowest
> dose of androgel it is 600 or so.
>
> What are these problems? You have me worried. I was thinking of geting
> off as well.

Considering your age, you might want to add a sperm count to your next
labs and use that as a long-term baseline as you explore alternatives to
Androgel.

....Lmac

Muerta

2006-08-23, 4:22 pm

"stryped" <stryped@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156347713.882935.325570@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I am male and 35. Beenon Androgel for about 5 years. My testosterone
> was low normal for my range. (Averaged about 2-300) ZWith the lowest
> dose of androgel it is 600 or so.
>
> What are these problems? You have me worried. I was thinking of geting
> off as well.

Hey man, if you're hitting 600 on androgel, I've gotta applaud you.

Having been on it myself, doing 10 grams a day to shaved shoulders and ab,
applying and rubbing in with a baby bottle, I never got over 300 ng/Dl.

They'd probably want to use you as a poster child ;)

Seriously, in all the years I've been in this group, and a few of my friends
using it and switching to testim, I've only heard two other people say they
were attaining good levels.

However, I still haven't seen anybody on it who got their E2 checked, that
it wasn't through the roof. It's just the nature of the beast.

When I was on it, I was eating DIM and leafy green vegetables like it was
going out of style trying to lower my E2, and it was tough for me to get
below twice the max rate for males.

I think I was just short of lactating ;)

I didn't want to do arimidex, and eventually I switched to HMG/HCG for a
year, then when that didn't work, I went to testosterone cypionate which
does not aromataze so badly, and have been below max since then.

Plus, instead of the $300 a month it was costing me for androgel, it went to
about $20 a month for the cyp.

I now stay around 600-800 ng/Dl.

Read a little about the effects of elevated estrogen on males. If you're on
vacation, spend a couple weeks searching for the research paper "Increased
incidence of heart attacks in men with elevated estrogen" in the Framingham
heart report, teh cardiologists "bible". Be advised it's a lot like looking
for a paragraph in "war and peace", but evntually I did find it.

stryped

2006-08-23, 4:22 pm

x-no-archive:yes

I had a vasectomy last year.
LMac wrote:
> stryped wrote:
>
> Considering your age, you might want to add a sperm count to your next
> labs and use that as a long-term baseline as you explore alternatives to
> Androgel.
>
> ...Lmac

stryped

2006-08-23, 4:22 pm

x-no-archive:yes

Should I just get off cold turkey. Are those other drugs injectables? I
thought the others were bad for your liver?
Muerta wrote:
> "stryped" <stryped@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1156347713.882935.325570@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey man, if you're hitting 600 on androgel, I've gotta applaud you.
>
> Having been on it myself, doing 10 grams a day to shaved shoulders and ab,
> applying and rubbing in with a baby bottle, I never got over 300 ng/Dl.
>
> They'd probably want to use you as a poster child ;)
>
> Seriously, in all the years I've been in this group, and a few of my friends
> using it and switching to testim, I've only heard two other people say they
> were attaining good levels.
>
> However, I still haven't seen anybody on it who got their E2 checked, that
> it wasn't through the roof. It's just the nature of the beast.
>
> When I was on it, I was eating DIM and leafy green vegetables like it was
> going out of style trying to lower my E2, and it was tough for me to get
> below twice the max rate for males.
>
> I think I was just short of lactating ;)
>
> I didn't want to do arimidex, and eventually I switched to HMG/HCG for a
> year, then when that didn't work, I went to testosterone cypionate which
> does not aromataze so badly, and have been below max since then.
>
> Plus, instead of the $300 a month it was costing me for androgel, it went to
> about $20 a month for the cyp.
>
> I now stay around 600-800 ng/Dl.
>
> Read a little about the effects of elevated estrogen on males. If you're on
> vacation, spend a couple weeks searching for the research paper "Increased
> incidence of heart attacks in men with elevated estrogen" in the Framingham
> heart report, teh cardiologists "bible". Be advised it's a lot like looking
> for a paragraph in "war and peace", but evntually I did find it.

Muerta

2006-08-23, 9:23 pm

"stryped" <stryped@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156359637.096683.93090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Should I just get off cold turkey. Are those other drugs injectables? I
> thought the others were bad for your liver?

Well, your method of quitting is your choice.

Yes, the other drugs are injectables.

No, it's oral testosterone that's bad for your liver.

You'd obviously prefer to use the HCG to just waiting to se if your
testicles are going to function again.

Why do you wish to go back to having a T count in the 200's?

stryped

2006-08-24, 8:21 am

x-no-archive:yes

Because of the estrogen you were talking about.

That plus what I hear about it causing prostate cancer.

I am not so sure it is doing me any good. Sexual function is about the
same I think.
Muerta wrote:
> "stryped" <stryped@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1156359637.096683.93090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Well, your method of quitting is your choice.
>
> Yes, the other drugs are injectables.
>
> No, it's oral testosterone that's bad for your liver.
>
> You'd obviously prefer to use the HCG to just waiting to se if your
> testicles are going to function again.
>
> Why do you wish to go back to having a T count in the 200's?

Muerta

2006-08-25, 8:22 am

"stryped" <stryped@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156422530.489452.56420@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Because of the estrogen you were talking about.
>
> That plus what I hear about it causing prostate cancer.
>
> I am not so sure it is doing me any good. Sexual function is about the
> same I think.

Well, the "causing prostate cancer" is BS and has been very much disproven
over the years. The jury is till out on whether it can fuel an *existing*
tumor.

Elevated estrogen is very very frequently present in the case of prostate
problems, as is elevated DHT levels.

Here's the bottom line, stryped, if your estrogens are high, the strongest,
E2, will compete at the T receptors in your body and cause them to shut
down, and then you will not get the benefits of a proper T level, because
the receptors are no longer sensing it.

The solution?

First (back around the circle), GET TESTED!

E2 and prolactin, at the least.

You say you don't feel any better. That's a "clue". Testosterone replacement
works, but you have to work with it.