Impotence Support - migraine, blood pressure, maybe cholesterol fixed but theres a small problem

Author

migraine, blood pressure, maybe cholesterol fixed but theres a small problem

Napoleon

2006-06-22, 4:22 pm

I am a caucasion male 50 years old.

I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the
following problems:

blood pressure 150/90 - high
ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high
weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy

and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for
migraine (maxalt and lately relpax)

So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol
aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and
these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission
so now, for the last month, I am taking

Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day
Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day

after one month

blood pressure 90/60 - normal!
ldl cholesterol - not measured yet
weight 188 - slightly better
no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them
very bad)

I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i
feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only to
dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams now
which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of
science! But all is not 100% good.

My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became
100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ----
pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood
pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually
limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent
erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!

William Wagner

2006-06-22, 4:22 pm

In article <1151004255.513562.287380@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
"Napoleon" <napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am a caucasion male 50 years old.
>
> I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the
> following problems:
>
> blood pressure 150/90 - high
> ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high
> weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy
>
> and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for
> migraine (maxalt and lately relpax)
>
> So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol
> aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and
> these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission
> so now, for the last month, I am taking
>
> Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day
> Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day
>
> after one month
>
> blood pressure 90/60 - normal!
> ldl cholesterol - not measured yet
> weight 188 - slightly better
> no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them
> very bad)
>
> I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i
> feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only to
> dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams now
> which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of
> science! But all is not 100% good.
>
> My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became
> 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ----
> pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
>
> I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood
> pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually
> limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent
> erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!

I'd suggest playing with this. Put in you numbers and lower and
higher numbers.

Risk....?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/he...se-risk/HB00047

Please note that a hard penis seems to relate to heart health.
Arteries are arteries still a heads up for your total health AKA
life..

I don't give a darn about cholesterol yet I try to get HDL up.
Exercise and Niacin for my adventure seem intelligent for me.

As for BP talk to your doc about diuretic options.

Bill

--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

Peabody

2006-06-22, 4:22 pm

Napoleon says...

> My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these
> pills I became 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis
> I have right now ---- pfffffft => nothing ever and it
> doesn't seem to be getting any better.

> I would like to know how to get my erections back but
> not my blood pressure or migraines. Are these drugs
> going to cause a perpetually limp member? Any ideas? If
> I can just occasionally get a decent erection and
> maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!

I don't know about the Vytorin, but thiazide diuretics are
notorious for causing impotence, as are beta blockers. I
suggest you tell your doctor about the impotence, and ask
him to switch your blood pressure med to one of the classes
that is less likely to cause a problem - an ace inhibitor,
angiotensin receptor blocker, or calcium channel blocker.

I don't know what effect such a change would imply for your
migranes.

Also, your blood pressure doesn't have to be 90/60. That's
actually a good bit below normal.

For both of your meds, there are lots of alternatives. You
just may need to try a number of them to get the results you
want without unacceptable side effects. But that will
require you to keep the pressure on your doctor. In my
experience, your doctor won't mind that you're impotent
unless you make an issue of it. So you will have to put
your foot down on this one.

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

2006-06-22, 4:22 pm

Napoleon wrote:
> I am a caucasion male 50 years old.
>
> I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the
> following problems:
>
> blood pressure 150/90 - high
> ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high
> weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy
>
> and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for
> migraine (maxalt and lately relpax)
>
> So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol
> aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and
> these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission
> so now, for the last month, I am taking
>
> Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day
> Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day
>
> after one month
>
> blood pressure 90/60 - normal!
> ldl cholesterol - not measured yet
> weight 188 - slightly better
> no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them
> very bad)
>
> I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i
> feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only to
> dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams now
> which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of
> science! But all is not 100% good.
>
> My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became
> 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ----
> pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
>
> I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood
> pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually
> limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent
> erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!

Would suggest two things:

(1) Lose weight. For many impotence goes away with becoming leaner and
trimmer (and hungrier <-- healthy appetite). Would suggest you ask
your doctor to supervise your use of the 2PD-OMER Approach:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

(2) Inform your doctor about your impotence. There are medications
that should help until you become healthier, more fit, leaner and
trimmer when you may not need these medications anymore.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife

Jim Chinnis

2006-06-22, 9:21 pm

Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote in part:

>William Wagner schrieb:
>[...]
>
>This gives some odd results. I always thought that being male was a risk
>factor for heart disease. However, with this risk calculator you get a
>considerably higher risk for females then for males if both have the
>same other values. Could it be that they made an error and switched male
>and female? Or are females only protected against heart disease because
>they usually have better risk factors?
>
>Thorsten
>

What age did you enter?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

William Wagner

2006-06-22, 9:21 pm

In article <e7f83h$df3$03$1@news.t-online.com>,
Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote:

> Jim Chinnis schrieb:
>
> Different ages. I always get higher risk values for females than for males.
>
> Thorsten

Yea but we only have one age. But those blood numbers can vary and my
point was risk is not impacted by those numbers in a linear way based
on this here info. Interesting and I wonder if we will ever see
handsome people speak of this on mass media.

Down with the bad and up with the good. So simplistic.
There may be copyright with this nonsense.

Bill

--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

Cindy Wells

2006-06-23, 2:24 am

Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote in news:e7f6dp$irv$01$1
@news.t-online.com:

<snip>
>
> This gives some odd results. I always thought that being male was a
risk
> factor for heart disease. However, with this risk calculator you get a
> considerably higher risk for females then for males if both have the
> same other values. Could it be that they made an error and switched
male
> and female? Or are females only protected against heart disease
because
> they usually have better risk factors?
>

Pre-menopause most women have lower heart disease risk but after
menopause that benefit disappears rapidly. Also, women tend to
be more pro-active on getting regular checkups and keeping their
weight down. (However, those women who got into yo-yo dieting
will have worse numbers IIRC.)

Cindy Wells
(whose maternal line now has heart disease and stroke on both sides
to go with the migraines (on grandma's side) and TIAs (on grandpa's
side); my paternal line disease risks are harder to asses - biological
grandfather died in the military and grandma didn't go to the doctor
for diagnoses in her later years.)

> Thorsten
>
>

gPeter

2006-06-23, 2:24 am

90/60 for BP is a little "better" than normal. But I don't think it has
anything to do with your impotence.
gPeter

"Napoleon" <napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com> az alábbiakat írta a következo
hírüzenetben: 1151004255.513562.287380@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>I am a caucasion male 50 years old.
>
> I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the
> following problems:
>
> blood pressure 150/90 - high
> ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high
> weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy
>
> and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for
> migraine (maxalt and lately relpax)
>
> So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol
> aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and
> these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission
> so now, for the last month, I am taking
>
> Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day
> Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day
>
> after one month
>
> blood pressure 90/60 - normal!
> ldl cholesterol - not measured yet
> weight 188 - slightly better
> no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them
> very bad)
>
> I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i
> feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only to
> dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams now
> which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of
> science! But all is not 100% good.
>
> My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became
> 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ----
> pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
>
> I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood
> pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually
> limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent
> erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!
>

Comax

2006-06-23, 8:21 am

Napoleon wrote:
> I am a caucasion male 50 years old.
>
> I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the
> following problems:
>
> blood pressure 150/90 - high
> ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high
> weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy
>
> and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for
> migraine (maxalt and lately relpax)
>
> So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol
> aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and
> these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission
> so now, for the last month, I am taking
>
> Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day
> Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day
>
> after one month
>
> blood pressure 90/60 - normal!
> ldl cholesterol - not measured yet
> weight 188 - slightly better
> no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them
> very bad)
>
> I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i
> feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only to
> dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams now
> which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of
> science! But all is not 100% good.
>
> My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became
> 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ----
> pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
>
> I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood
> pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually
> limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent
> erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!

Hi Napoleon

Unfortunately for you impotence is quite common. I suggest that you
read the book "The Cure of High Blood Pressure by Respiratory
Exercises" written mid-last century, and now available as an e-book on
www.cureofhighbloodpressure.com, and practice some of the techniques
suggested (with your Doctors knowledge of course!).
Hope this helps,
Good Health!

Comax

Juhana Harju

2006-06-23, 8:21 am

Napoleon wrote:
: I am a caucasion male 50 years old.
:
: I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the
: following problems:
:
: blood pressure 150/90 - high
: ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high
: weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy
:
: and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for
: migraine (maxalt and lately relpax)
:
: So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol
: aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and
: these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission
: so now, for the last month, I am taking
:
: Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day
: Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day
:
: after one month
:
: blood pressure 90/60 - normal!
: ldl cholesterol - not measured yet
: weight 188 - slightly better
: no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them
: very bad)
:
: I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i
: feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only
: to dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams
: now which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of
: science! But all is not 100% good.
:
: My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became
: 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ----
: pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
:
: I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood
: pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually
: limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent
: erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia!

Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure
lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse effects. In
an Israeli study below drinking pomegranate juice daily reduced systolic
blood pressure by 21 mmHg (not 21% as the abstract mistakenly states). That
would be enough in your case. Besides lowering blood pressure the juice
would also improve your antioxidant status considerably.

http://www.pomwonderful.com/pdf/clinical_nutrition.pdf

--
Juhana

Muerta

2006-06-23, 4:22 pm

"Peabody" <waybackNO874SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XHDmg.57990$9c6.50411@dukeread11...
>
> I don't know about the Vytorin, but thiazide diuretics are
> notorious for causing impotence, as are beta blockers. I
> suggest you tell your doctor about the impotence, and ask
> him to switch your blood pressure med to one of the classes
> that is less likely to cause a problem - an ace inhibitor,
> angiotensin receptor blocker, or calcium channel blocker.
>

As I read through the thread, I see Peabody beat me to this. I discussed
this in the long past with my Dr., and as he assisted greatly in my approach
to cure ED, I had said to him..."NO Thiazides or Beta Blockers". He was most
agreeable and sympathetic and we fought my hypertension as a team until back
in the 120/80 normal range.

Used an AT2 blocker and a Calcium Channel blocker.

napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com

2006-06-23, 4:22 pm

William Wagner wrote:
>
> I'd suggest playing with this. Put in you numbers and lower and
> higher numbers.
>
> Risk....?
>
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/he...se-risk/HB00047
>
> Please note that a hard penis seems to relate to heart health.
> Arteries are arteries still a heads up for your total health AKA
> life..
>
> I don't give a darn about cholesterol yet I try to get HDL up.
> Exercise and Niacin for my adventure seem intelligent for me.
>
>
> As for BP talk to your doc about diuretic options.
>
> Bill
>

It seems from that calculator that my cholesterol is far more of a
problem than the blood pressure.

It seem the consensus here is that it's the BP medicine that is causing
my problems.

napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com

2006-06-23, 4:22 pm

Peabody wrote:
> Napoleon says...
> I don't know about the Vytorin, but thiazide diuretics are
> notorious for causing impotence, as are beta blockers. I
> suggest you tell your doctor about the impotence, and ask
> him to switch your blood pressure med to one of the classes
> that is less likely to cause a problem - an ace inhibitor,
> angiotensin receptor blocker, or calcium channel blocker.
>
> I don't know what effect such a change would imply for your
> migranes.
>
> Also, your blood pressure doesn't have to be 90/60. That's
> actually a good bit below normal.
>
> For both of your meds, there are lots of alternatives. You
> just may need to try a number of them to get the results you
> want without unacceptable side effects. But that will
> require you to keep the pressure on your doctor. In my
> experience, your doctor won't mind that you're impotent
> unless you make an issue of it. So you will have to put
> your foot down on this one

Thanks, further confimation that its the BP medication. I think I'm
also going to try the weight loss approach along with asking about less
harsh medication in the mean time. I hope the problem isn't the Vytorin
because I'm pretty worried I won't be able to lower it enough just by
losing weight.

napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com

2006-06-23, 4:22 pm

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> Would suggest two things:
>
> (1) Lose weight. For many impotence goes away with becoming leaner and
> trimmer (and hungrier <-- healthy appetite). Would suggest you ask
> your doctor to supervise your use of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
>
> (2) Inform your doctor about your impotence. There are medications
> that should help until you become healthier, more fit, leaner and
> trimmer when you may not need these medications anymore.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife

That gives me hope I can help with some weight loss. You 2 lb of food a
day diet looks interesting and the ultimate in simplicity, but if I'm
going to be very happy on it those 2# it will have to be something
like Chocolate Fudge Haagan-Daz. (Not seriously of course, but I
calculate the calories would still only come to about 2000 per day
which by past experience I know is easily low enough for me to lose
weight with.)

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

2006-06-23, 4:22 pm

napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com wrote:
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> That gives me hope I can help with some weight loss. You 2 lb of food a
> day diet looks interesting and the ultimate in simplicity, but if I'm
> going to be very happy on it those 2# it will have to be something
> like Chocolate Fudge Haagan-Daz. (Not seriously of course, but I
> calculate the calories would still only come to about 2000 per day
> which by past experience I know is easily low enough for me to lose
> weight with.)

It is unlikely your doctor will like the idea of your being on a Ice
Cream diet dovetailed with the 2PD-OMER Approach. Instead, less of
everything across the board without changing **what** you are eating
except as your doctor advises you as s/he supervises you.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife

judy.n

2006-06-23, 4:22 pm

They actually sell a device called Resperate for around 300$ that
trains you to breath slowly. It's been proven effective. Andrew Weil
(the alternative medicine MD from Tucson is always mentioning it.) I
sent away for literature on it for my husband, and it's a reasonable
device, although somewhat overpriced--but if you compare the price of
meds and the price of experiencing side effects, I suppose it's worth
it. Sometimes it really helps to have an actual device to force you to
practice slow breathing.
http://www.resperate.com/?Ls=J&lk=1

One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as
120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult.

Judy
Comax wrote:
> Napoleon wrote:
>
>
> Hi Napoleon
>
> Unfortunately for you impotence is quite common. I suggest that you
> read the book "The Cure of High Blood Pressure by Respiratory
> Exercises" written mid-last century, and now available as an e-book on
> www.cureofhighbloodpressure.com, and practice some of the techniques
> suggested (with your Doctors knowledge of course!).
> Hope this helps,
> Good Health!
>
> Comax

Napoleon

2006-06-23, 9:21 pm

Muerta wrote:
>
> As I read through the thread, I see Peabody beat me to this. I discussed
> this in the long past with my Dr., and as he assisted greatly in my approach
> to cure ED, I had said to him..."NO Thiazides or Beta Blockers". He was most
> agreeable and sympathetic and we fought my hypertension as a team until back
> in the 120/80 normal range.
>
> Used an AT2 blocker and a Calcium Channel blocker.

There are several responses now all pointing the finger of accusation
at the hydrochlorothiazide (not the vytorin) which makes me happy
because it seems there are several options for lowering blood pressure.

Napoleon

2006-06-23, 9:21 pm

gPeter wrote:
> 90/60 for BP is a little "better" than normal. But I don't think it has
> anything to do with your impotence.
> gPeter
>
I wouldn't think so either because I've always believed that impotence
increased with increasing blood pressure not the other way around.

Juhana Harju

2006-06-24, 2:21 am

judy.n wrote:

: One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as
: 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult.

Any reference for that?

--
Juhana

judy.n

2006-06-24, 4:22 pm

Tne National Heart Lung and Blood Institute publishes guidelines for
treatment of blood pressure: they call them JNC (Joint National
Committee): the most recent is JNC 7. Here's the web site with a free
download of the documents:
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/hypertension/

In the "old" days, we accepted 140/90 as borderline HTN, now there's a
new ideal of 120/80, yet studies show that to achieve that level, in
Western societies, as we age, most people will require medication.
JNC is a "moving target" as they're always updating their data and
recommendations, but they base in on the levels of blood pressure and
bad outcomes--stroke, heart attacks.
For years we wanted diabetics at 120/80, now it's the ideal for
everyone.
Judy
Juhana Harju wrote:
> judy.n wrote:
>
> : One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as
> : 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult.
>
> Any reference for that?
>
> --
> Juhana

Juhana Harju

2006-06-24, 4:22 pm

judy.n wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:: judy.n wrote:
::
::: One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined
::: as 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult.
::
:: Any reference for that?

: Tne National Heart Lung and Blood Institute publishes guidelines for
: treatment of blood pressure: they call them JNC (Joint National
: Committee): the most recent is JNC 7. Here's the web site with a free
: download of the documents:
: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/hypertension/
:
: In the "old" days, we accepted 140/90 as borderline HTN, now there's a
: new ideal of 120/80, yet studies show that to achieve that level, in
: Western societies, as we age, most people will require medication.
: JNC is a "moving target" as they're always updating their data and
: recommendations, but they base in on the levels of blood pressure and
: bad outcomes--stroke, heart attacks.
: For years we wanted diabetics at 120/80, now it's the ideal for
: everyone.

I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be better than
90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk
doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."

--
Juhana

kol_Isha

2006-06-24, 4:22 pm

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...
> judy.n wrote:
> :
> : In the "old" days, we accepted 140/90 as borderline HTN, now there's a
> : new ideal of 120/80, yet studies show that to achieve that level, in
> : Western societies, as we age, most people will require medication.
> : JNC is a "moving target" as they're always updating their data and
> : recommendations, but they base in on the levels of blood pressure and
> : bad outcomes--stroke, heart attacks.
> : For years we wanted diabetics at 120/80, now it's the ideal for
> : everyone.
>
> I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be better
> than
> 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk
> doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
>
> --
> Juhana
>

I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60. She is
saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90 (the "old"
standard). Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not bad (unless it
drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for that individual).
Mine normally runs around 90/60, and my doctor totally pooh-poohs this being
a problem at all, despite the fact that for years, my mother has been
yelling at me to "talk to the doctor about your blood pressure, it's too
low." (My doctor quietly tells me not to pay any attention to my mother.)
I am also quite certain that low blood pressure does not contribute in any
way to my migraines... although a few times, when I've sought treatment in
the emergency room because my migraine was out of control, it was noted that
my blood pressure at those times is sometimes as low as 80/50. (I noted on
one emergency room admission sheet that they diagnosed me with "migraine"
and "syncope." I did NOT faint, but I suppose I probably looked like I
might. Of course, that could have as easily been the migraine or all the
medications I had taken.)

Regards,

Arlene

Juhana Harju

2006-06-24, 4:22 pm

kol_Isha wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
: news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...

:: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be
:: better than
:: 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk
:: doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
::
: I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60.
: She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90
: (the "old" standard).

She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as 120/80 and
that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult."

: Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not
: bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for
: that individual).

I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness or
fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some references to
back her claim.

: Mine normally runs around 90/60, and my doctor
: totally pooh-poohs this being a problem at all, despite the fact that
: for years, my mother has been yelling at me to "talk to the doctor
: about your blood pressure, it's too low." (My doctor quietly tells
: me not to pay any attention to my mother.) I am also quite certain
: that low blood pressure does not contribute in any way to my
: migraines... although a few times, when I've sought treatment in the
: emergency room because my migraine was out of control, it was noted
: that my blood pressure at those times is sometimes as low as 80/50.
: (I noted on one emergency room admission sheet that they diagnosed me
: with "migraine" and "syncope." I did NOT faint, but I suppose I
: probably looked like I might. Of course, that could have as easily
: been the migraine or all the medications I had taken.)
:
: Regards,
:
: Arlene

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju

2006-06-24, 4:22 pm

Ignatz's Bricks wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:
:: Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure
:: lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse
:: effects. In an Israeli study below drinking pomegranate juice daily
:: reduced systolic blood pressure by 21 mmHg (not 21% as the abstract
:: mistakenly states). That would be enough in your case. Besides
:: lowering blood pressure the juice would also improve your
:: antioxidant status considerably.
::
:: http://www.pomwonderful.com/pdf/clinical_nutrition.pdf
:
: I don't have high blood pressure, but I take 4 ounces of Pomegranate
: juice twice a day for impotence problems, and one side effect that I
: noticed was that it lowered my blood pressure by about 10 mmHg
: Systolic and by about 05 mmHg Diastolic.
:
:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...7695&query_hl=4

Thanks for your posting! I had not thought about this kind of use of
pomegranate juice. I had not seen the study either.

: For the record:
: These guys really ought to proofread more carefully, too. The full
: text version of the Journal of Urology article has a typo in the
: formula for finding the Body Mass Index.
:
: IB

--
Juhana

judy.n

2006-06-24, 4:22 pm

The reference deals with high blood pressure. Low blood pressure is an
issue: it has been implicated in syndromes like chronic fatigue, and if
a patient can not maintain their blood pressure with changes in
position--orthostatic hypotension--they are at risk for dizziness or at
worse, fainting. Tilt table testing is used to formally diagnose
orthostatic hypotension.
I was at a recent lecture on blood pressure, and the cardiologist
stated that with older people who have "stiffer" blood vessels, rapid
lowering of blood pressure may cause them to not be able to maintain
adequate circulation.
So, you want me to justify what qualifies as hypotension. Blood
pressure norms vary by age: there are tables for children. After 18 the
normal blood pressures are defined by the article I cited. Symptomatic
hypotension is a completely different subject than guidelines for
treating high blood pressure.
Again, I've read recent articles that are implicating orthostatic
hypotension in chronic fatigue, and clearly some patients tolerate
lower blood pressures, but older patients frequently do not--they stand
up and faint. If it's not that severe, they might just feel fatigued
and ligthheaded.
I just peeked at pubmed, and although many articles implicate low
blood pressure in chronic fatigue, a recent article showed that many
people drop their pressure on the tilt table without symtpoms. So, it's
controversial.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum
The bottom line, for me, is that if you are lowering someone's blood
pressure by medications, you need to be careful, as they have become
used to a higher pressure, and many do have symptoms with too rapid
lowering and too low of a blood pressure.
Here's an article on blood pressure lowering and orthostatic
hypotension
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...act&dr=abstract
Is that enough evidence?
Judy
Juhana Harju wrote:
> kol_Isha wrote:
> : "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
> : news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...
>
> :: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be
> :: better than
> :: 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk
> :: doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
> ::
> : I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60.
> : She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90
> : (the "old" standard).
>
> She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as 120/80 and
> that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult."
>
> : Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not
> : bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for
> : that individual).
>
> I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness or
> fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some references to
> back her claim.
>
> : Mine normally runs around 90/60, and my doctor
> : totally pooh-poohs this being a problem at all, despite the fact that
> : for years, my mother has been yelling at me to "talk to the doctor
> : about your blood pressure, it's too low." (My doctor quietly tells
> : me not to pay any attention to my mother.) I am also quite certain
> : that low blood pressure does not contribute in any way to my
> : migraines... although a few times, when I've sought treatment in the
> : emergency room because my migraine was out of control, it was noted
> : that my blood pressure at those times is sometimes as low as 80/50.
> : (I noted on one emergency room admission sheet that they diagnosed me
> : with "migraine" and "syncope." I did NOT faint, but I suppose I
> : probably looked like I might. Of course, that could have as easily
> : been the migraine or all the medications I had taken.)
> :
> : Regards,
> :
> : Arlene
>
> --
> Juhana

judy.n

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness
or
fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some references
to
back her claim."
How do you know this to be true?
Low blood pressure can be a serioous problem in certain situations.
Judy
Juhana Harju wrote:
> kol_Isha wrote:
> : "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
> : news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...
>
> :: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be
> :: better than
> :: 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk
> :: doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
> ::
> : I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60.
> : She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90
> : (the "old" standard).
>
> She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as 120/80 and
> that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult."
>
> : Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not
> : bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for
> : that individual).
>
> I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness or
> fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some references to
> back her claim.
>
> : Mine normally runs around 90/60, and my doctor
> : totally pooh-poohs this being a problem at all, despite the fact that
> : for years, my mother has been yelling at me to "talk to the doctor
> : about your blood pressure, it's too low." (My doctor quietly tells
> : me not to pay any attention to my mother.) I am also quite certain
> : that low blood pressure does not contribute in any way to my
> : migraines... although a few times, when I've sought treatment in the
> : emergency room because my migraine was out of control, it was noted
> : that my blood pressure at those times is sometimes as low as 80/50.
> : (I noted on one emergency room admission sheet that they diagnosed me
> : with "migraine" and "syncope." I did NOT faint, but I suppose I
> : probably looked like I might. Of course, that could have as easily
> : been the migraine or all the medications I had taken.)
> :
> : Regards,
> :
> : Arlene
>
> --
> Juhana

Juhana Harju

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

judy.n wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:: kol_Isha wrote:
::: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
::: news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...
::
:::: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be
:::: better than
:::: 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD
:::: risk doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
::::
::: I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60.
::: She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90
::: (the "old" standard).
::
:: She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as
:: 120/80 and that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an
:: adult."
::
::: Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not
::: bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for
::: that individual).
::
:: I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness
:: or fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some
:: references to back her claim.

: How do you know this to be true?

Dr. John P. Cooke, who is the head of Stanford Medical School's vascular
unit, states it clearly in his book /The Cardiovascular Cure/ (Broadway
Books, 2003, p. 6):

"In my opinion, the lower your blood pressure, the better. Obviously, if
your blood pressure is too low, you will faint. But I tell my patients that
their blood pressure should be just high enough to keep them from falling
over. Even if your blood pressure is as low as 90/60 but you can stand
without trouble, this is healthy and, in the long run, better for your heart
and vessels."

http://tinyurl.com/oo7py

--
Juhana

Jim Chinnis

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>judy.n wrote:
>: Juhana Harju wrote:
>:: kol_Isha wrote:
>::: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
>::: news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...
>::
>:::: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be
>:::: better than
>:::: 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD
>:::: risk doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
>::::
>::: I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60.
>::: She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90
>::: (the "old" standard).
>::
>:: She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as
>:: 120/80 and that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an
>:: adult."
>::
>::: Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not
>::: bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for
>::: that individual).
>::
>:: I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness
>:: or fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some
>:: references to back her claim.
>
>: How do you know this to be true?
>
>Dr. John P. Cooke, who is the head of Stanford Medical School's vascular
>unit, states it clearly in his book /The Cardiovascular Cure/ (Broadway
>Books, 2003, p. 6):
>
>"In my opinion, the lower your blood pressure, the better. Obviously, if
>your blood pressure is too low, you will faint. But I tell my patients that
>their blood pressure should be just high enough to keep them from falling
>over. Even if your blood pressure is as low as 90/60 but you can stand
>without trouble, this is healthy and, in the long run, better for your heart
>and vessels."
>
>http://tinyurl.com/oo7py

Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern:

http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle...l_id=tho20jun06
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Juhana Harju

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:: judy.n wrote:
::: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::: kol_Isha wrote:
::::: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in message
::::: news:4g505oF1lfq3nU1@individual.net...
::::
:::::: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be
:::::: better than
:::::: 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD
:::::: risk doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg."
::::::
::::: I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than
::::: 90/60. She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better
::::: than 140/90 (the "old" standard).
::::
:::: She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as
:::: 120/80 and that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an
:::: adult."
::::
::::: Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not
::::: bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm
::::: for that individual).
::::
:::: I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes
:::: dizziness or fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post
:::: some references to back her claim.
::
::: How do you know this to be true?
::
:: Dr. John P. Cooke, who is the head of Stanford Medical School's
:: vascular unit, states it clearly in his book /The Cardiovascular
:: Cure/ (Broadway Books, 2003, p. 6):
::
:: "In my opinion, the lower your blood pressure, the better.
:: Obviously, if your blood pressure is too low, you will faint. But I
:: tell my patients that their blood pressure should be just high
:: enough to keep them from falling over. Even if your blood pressure
:: is as low as 90/60 but you can stand without trouble, this is
:: healthy and, in the long run, better for your heart and vessels."
::
:: http://tinyurl.com/oo7py
:
: Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern:
:
: http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle...l_id=tho20jun06

Thanks for a a good posting! It seems that Dr. Cooke is not well informed in
this respect.

--
Juhana

kol_Isha

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu>
>
> Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern:
>
> http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle...l_id=tho20jun06
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

As a person with normally very low blood pressure, I'm naturally very
interested in this topic. This article does NOT say that low blood pressure
is a concern... it says only that it is a concern in patients with corony
heart disease (CHD)! And, they are talking about patients with HBP whose
blood pressure is being lowered with medication, and how to maintain the
balance between dyastolic and systolic without lowering one or the other too
much.

I would imagine, as Judy said previously, that it is a problem in some
situations, but not always. If you faint or pass out or have chronic
fatigue, that is a problem. If your blood pressure is normally higher, and
then suddenly drops... that is a problem that needs to be looked into. If
you are on blood pressure medication and your blood pressure takes a
nosedive from very high to too low, that is a problem and your medication
probably needs to be adjusted. If you have no symptoms and feel fine and
have always had low blood pressure, that is NOT a problem.

Regards,

Arlene

Juhana Harju

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

kol_Isha wrote:
: "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu>
::
:: Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern:
::
:: http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle...l_id=tho20jun06
:
: As a person with normally very low blood pressure, I'm naturally very
: interested in this topic. This article does NOT say that low blood
: pressure is a concern... it says only that it is a concern in
: patients with corony heart disease (CHD)! And, they are talking
: about patients with HBP whose blood pressure is being lowered with
: medication, and how to maintain the balance between dyastolic and
: systolic without lowering one or the other too much.
:
: I would imagine, as Judy said previously, that it is a problem in some
: situations, but not always. If you faint or pass out or have chronic
: fatigue, that is a problem. If your blood pressure is normally
: higher, and then suddenly drops... that is a problem that needs to be
: looked into. If you are on blood pressure medication and your blood
: pressure takes a nosedive from very high to too low, that is a
: problem and your medication probably needs to be adjusted. If you
: have no symptoms and feel fine and have always had low blood
: pressure, that is NOT a problem.

In the abstract below it is explained that the possible hazards associated
with low diastolic blood pressure are probably caused by isolated systolic
blood pressure:

Am J Cardiol. 2004 Aug 1;94(3):380-4.

A likely explanation for the J-curve of blood pressure cardiovascular risk.

Kannel WB, Wilson PW, Nam BH, D'Agostino RB, Li J.

Boston university School of Medicine/Framingham Heart Study, Framingham,
Massachusetts 01702-5827, USA.

We prospectively tested in the combined original and offspring Framingham
cohorts the hypothesis that the increase in cardiovascular disease (CVD)
incidence at low diastolic blood pressure (BP) is largely confined to
subjects with increased systolic BP and hence an increased pulse pressure.
The 10-year risk of 951 nonfatal CVD events and 204 CVD deaths was estimated
at diastolic pressures of <80, 80 to 90, and > or =90 mm Hg, according to
concomitant systolic BP. An increasing tendency for a J-curve relation of
CVD incidence to diastolic BP was observed with successive increments in
accompanying systolic BP. In both genders, a statistically significant
excess of CVD events was observed at a diastolic BP of <80 mm Hg only when
accompanied by a systolic BP of >140 mm Hg that persisted after adjustment
for age and associated CVD risk factors. Patients with this condition of
isolated systolic hypertension have been shown to benefit from
antihypertensive treatment. PMID: 15276113

http://tinyurl.com/g5gwc

--
Juhana

Jim Chinnis

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"kol_Isha" <kol_isha@hotmail.com> wrote in part:

>
>"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu>
>
>
>As a person with normally very low blood pressure, I'm naturally very
>interested in this topic. This article does NOT say that low blood pressure
>is a concern... it says only that it is a concern in patients with corony
>heart disease (CHD)! And, they are talking about patients with HBP whose
>blood pressure is being lowered with medication, and how to maintain the
>balance between dyastolic and systolic without lowering one or the other too
>much.
>
>I would imagine, as Judy said previously, that it is a problem in some
>situations, but not always. If you faint or pass out or have chronic
>fatigue, that is a problem. If your blood pressure is normally higher, and
>then suddenly drops... that is a problem that needs to be looked into. If
>you are on blood pressure medication and your blood pressure takes a
>nosedive from very high to too low, that is a problem and your medication
>probably needs to be adjusted. If you have no symptoms and feel fine and
>have always had low blood pressure, that is NOT a problem.
>
>Regards,
>
>Arlene
>

I don't disagree with you. But I'd say this is an area that is not
well-understood. (Like most.)
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Jim Chinnis

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>In the abstract below it is explained that the possible hazards associated
>with low diastolic blood pressure are probably caused by isolated systolic
>blood pressure:

There seem to be at least two hypotheses. One has to do with pulse pressure,
which is often high in *treated* hypertension and in isolated systolic
hypertension. The other concerns the low diastolic pressure, which may
hamper perfusion of heart muscle, particularly where coronary artery disease
is present.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Jim Chinnis

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>: Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern:
>:
>: http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle...l_id=tho20jun06
>
>Thanks for a a good posting! It seems that Dr. Cooke is not well informed in
>this respect.

He was probably well-informed at the time of writing, which could have
anywhere between about 2000 and 2002...
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Juhana Harju

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:
:: In the abstract below it is explained that the possible hazards
:: associated with low diastolic blood pressure are probably caused by
:: isolated systolic blood pressure:
:
: There seem to be at least two hypotheses. One has to do with pulse
: pressure, which is often high in *treated* hypertension and in
: isolated systolic hypertension. The other concerns the low diastolic
: pressure, which may hamper perfusion of heart muscle, particularly
: where coronary artery disease is present.

It is also known that the outcome of drug treated hypertension is not as
good as hypertension treated by diet.

To my knowledge pulse pressure is associated with arterial stiffness which
in turn is mostly caused by impared endothelial function. Do you think that
my reasoning correct if I think that pulse pressure (or isolated blood
pressure) could be treated by enhancing endothelial function by fish oils,
dietary arginine, phytochemicals and glycemic control?

--
Juhana

Jim Chinnis

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>:
>:: In the abstract below it is explained that the possible hazards
>:: associated with low diastolic blood pressure are probably caused by
>:: isolated systolic blood pressure:
>:
>: There seem to be at least two hypotheses. One has to do with pulse
>: pressure, which is often high in *treated* hypertension and in
>: isolated systolic hypertension. The other concerns the low diastolic
>: pressure, which may hamper perfusion of heart muscle, particularly
>: where coronary artery disease is present.
>
>It is also known that the outcome of drug treated hypertension is not as
>good as hypertension treated by diet.
>
>To my knowledge pulse pressure is associated with arterial stiffness which
>in turn is mostly caused by impared endothelial function. Do you think that
>my reasoning correct if I think that pulse pressure (or isolated blood
>pressure) could be treated by enhancing endothelial function by fish oils,
>dietary arginine, phytochemicals and glycemic control?

I don't think I know enough to really comment.

If the problems of low diastolic pressure or high pulse pressure are due to
poor perfusion of the heart muscle, I don't know if improved endothelial
function would make a sufficient differece to resolve it or not.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

judy.n

2006-06-25, 4:22 pm

Thanks for the excellent article: very up to date and complete.
If we go back to Napoleon's original concerns: his blood pressure was
fairly dramatically lowered. If we run his Framingham risk, and we
don't have all the details to do so, it would likely suggest an LDL
goal of 100 or 130 depending on the 10 year risk.
The bottom line is, he has some risk for atherosclerosis, his blood
pressure was lowered fairly dramatically in a short period of time, and
he suffered side effects: likely due to med side effects and possibly
due to the blood pressure lowering. He's likely a person where 90/60 is
too low of a blood pressure.
We have been arguing if there is a level of blood pressure that is
too low, and obviously there is: it is of most concern if you have
heart and/or kidney disease, or are symptomatic with it.
This is a migraine forum. Migraine can cause autonomic dysfunction,
some of that may be reflected in some dysregulation of blood
pressure--which is the likely mechanism for the success of calcium
channel blockers, beta blockers, ACE inhibitor and ARB's for the
prophylaxis of migraine.
As Arlene as written several times, if you are healthy and tolerate
your relatively low blood pressure without symptoms, then it's not a
cause for concern.
Judy
Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>
>
> Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern:
>
> http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle...l_id=tho20jun06
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Cindy Wells

2006-06-25, 9:21 pm

"judy.n" <judy.nudelman@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1151266763.417768.237030@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

<snip>

> The bottom line is, he has some risk for atherosclerosis, his blood
> pressure was lowered fairly dramatically in a short period of time,
> and he suffered side effects: likely due to med side effects and
> possibly due to the blood pressure lowering. He's likely a person
> where 90/60 is too low of a blood pressure.
> We have been arguing if there is a level of blood pressure that is
> too low, and obviously there is: it is of most concern if you have
> heart and/or kidney disease, or are symptomatic with it.
> This is a migraine forum. Migraine can cause autonomic dysfunction,
> some of that may be reflected in some dysregulation of blood
> pressure--which is the likely mechanism for the success of calcium
> channel blockers, beta blockers, ACE inhibitor and ARB's for the
> prophylaxis of migraine.
> As Arlene as written several times, if you are healthy and tolerate
> your relatively low blood pressure without symptoms, then it's not a
> cause for concern.
> Judy

<snip>
My understanding is that healthy blood pressure is also a factor of
height, weight and gender. However, a patient may be uncomfortable with
their bp and should discuss it with their doc - particularly if
undesirable side effects are present (Quality of life matters - and the
doc isn't the one who has to deal with it). Similarly, a doctor might
be unhappy with a patient having too low a bp and want to change the
meds.

Cindy Wells
(who had the latter with Calan (for migraine prophylaxis) starting with
a normal bp. My doc tested my bp standing, sitting and lying down and
questioned why I wasn't coming into the clinic with bruises from
falling when I got up in the morning. Thus we tried the next med in
the list the neuro had made of things to try to break the frequency/
severity routine.)

jay1000

2006-06-25, 9:21 pm

"kol_Isha" <kol_isha@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZJyng.24349$gv2.13707@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu>
>
>
> As a person with normally very low blood pressure, I'm naturally very
> interested in this topic. This article does NOT say that low blood
> pressure is a concern... it says only that it is a concern in patients
> with corony heart disease (CHD)! And, they are talking about patients
> with HBP whose blood pressure is being lowered with medication, and how to
> maintain the balance between dyastolic and systolic without lowering one
> or the other too much.
>
> I would imagine, as Judy said previously, that it is a problem in some
> situations, but not always. If you faint or pass out or have chronic
> fatigue, that is a problem. If your blood pressure is normally higher,
> and then suddenly drops... that is a problem that needs to be looked into.
> If you are on blood pressure medication and your blood pressure takes a
> nosedive from very high to too low, that is a problem and your medication
> probably needs to be adjusted. If you have no symptoms and feel fine and
> have always had low blood pressure, that is NOT a problem.
>
> Regards,
>
> Arlene
>

There is also a correlation between low diastolic and dementia/Alzheimer's.
Before anyone gets uptight, notice I said correlation and not causation.
From what I understand there is not enough data to say whether low diastolic
causes dementia/Alzheimer's or whether impending dementia/Alzheimer's causes
low diastolic. The only mechanism suggested is that low diastolic results
in reduced perfusion in the brain and reduced perfusion may result in
dementia/Alzheimer's.

Jay

wastball

2006-06-28, 4:22 pm

Juhana Harju wrote:
> Ignatz's Bricks wrote:
> : Juhana Harju wrote:
> :
> :: Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure
> :: lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse
> :: effects. In an Israeli study below drinking pomegranate juice daily
> :: reduced systolic blood pressure by 21 mmHg (not 21% as the abstract
> :: mistakenly states). That would be enough in your case. Besides
> :: lowering blood pressure the juice would also improve your
> :: antioxidant status considerably.
> ::
> :: http://www.pomwonderful.com/pdf/clinical_nutrition.pdf
> :
> : I don't have high blood pressure, but I take 4 ounces of Pomegranate
> : juice twice a day for impotence problems, and one side effect that I
> : noticed was that it lowered my blood pressure by about 10 mmHg
> : Systolic and by about 05 mmHg Diastolic.
> :
> :
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...7695&query_hl=4
>
> Thanks for your posting! I had not thought about this kind of use of
> pomegranate juice. I had not seen the study either.
>
> : For the record:
> : These guys really ought to proofread more carefully, too. The full
> : text version of the Journal of Urology article has a typo in the
> : formula for finding the Body Mass Index.
> :
> : IB
>
> --
> Juhana

Really, the proofreading is outrageout