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Home > Archive > Impotence Support > January 2006 > Got opposite effect from DIM - Estradiol higher & Testosterone lower!
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Got opposite effect from DIM - Estradiol higher & Testosterone lower!
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| Hi,
Based on recommendations in this newsgroup I tried DIM-Plus (3 capsules per
day) by Nature's Way ordered from www.n101.com, with the aim of decreasing
Estradiol and increasing Testosterone. Strangely, the results I got were
quite the opposite.
A saliva test taken prior to the treatment gave the following results:
Testosterone: 85 pg/ml (ref range 50-200 pg/ml)
Estradiol (E2): 0.8 pg/ml (ref range 0.5-1.5 pg/ml)
Estrone (E1): 2.6 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
Estriol (E3): <3 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
Progesterone: <15 pg/ml (ref range 25-100 pg/ml)
After having taken 3 DIM capsules per day for 1 week, a new saliva test gave
the following results:
Testosterone: 66 pg/ml (ref range 50-200 pg/ml)
Estradiol (E2): 1.7 pg/ml (ref range 0.5-1.5 pg/ml)
Estrone (E1): 1.6 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
Estriol (E3): <3 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
Progesterone: <15 pg/ml (ref range 25-100 pg/ml)
As you can see, Testosterone was decreased, while Estradiol (E2) was
increased, due to DIM. I also got gradually worse during the time I took
DIM, which matches what could be expected when hormone changes such as what
were indicated by the test results occur. Is there anyone who's had (or
heard of) a similar experience when taking DIM? Is there any theory that can
explain the non-expected results I got?
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| Wanderer 2006-01-09, 5:52 pm |
| On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:52:51 -0500, John wrote
(in message <43c2d9ee$0$1492$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com> ):
> Hi,
>
> Based on recommendations in this newsgroup I tried DIM-Plus (3 capsules per
> day) by Nature's Way ordered from www.n101.com, with the aim of decreasing
> Estradiol and increasing Testosterone. Strangely, the results I got were
> quite the opposite.
>
> A saliva test taken prior to the treatment gave the following results:
>
> Testosterone: 85 pg/ml (ref range 50-200 pg/ml)
> Estradiol (E2): 0.8 pg/ml (ref range 0.5-1.5 pg/ml)
> Estrone (E1): 2.6 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
> Estriol (E3): <3 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
> Progesterone: <15 pg/ml (ref range 25-100 pg/ml)
>
> After having taken 3 DIM capsules per day for 1 week, a new saliva test gave
> the following results:
>
> Testosterone: 66 pg/ml (ref range 50-200 pg/ml)
> Estradiol (E2): 1.7 pg/ml (ref range 0.5-1.5 pg/ml)
> Estrone (E1): 1.6 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
> Estriol (E3): <3 pg/ml (ref range <3 pg/ml)
> Progesterone: <15 pg/ml (ref range 25-100 pg/ml)
>
> As you can see, Testosterone was decreased, while Estradiol (E2) was
> increased, due to DIM. I also got gradually worse during the time I took
> DIM, which matches what could be expected when hormone changes such as what
> were indicated by the test results occur. Is there anyone who's had (or
> heard of) a similar experience when taking DIM? Is there any theory that can
> explain the non-expected results I got?
Saliva tests are notoriously inaccurate. You should have the actual blood
work done. It's certainly possible that you have had paradoxical results, but
saliva tests are not a good way of determining that.
Wanderer
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| Muerta 2006-01-10, 12:52 am |
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"John" <nospam@no.where> wrote in message
news:43c2d9ee$0$1492$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com...
> Hi,
>
Well.......no. Looking at your results, I see that there was some decrease
in estrone, but a definate increase in estradiol. That is perplexing.
It's a lot like saying asprin made your headache worse.
Hormone levels can vary every 30-minutes to 1/2 hour, but we've really got
to be reasonable about results and just figure that you have an average of
what's taking place.
As you may have read from the posts, too little estrogen has about the same
effect as too much. I don't see where your results were that bad prior to
taking DIM. You gave a 0.8 pg result with a 0.5-1.5 pg range, and that seems
totally reasonable to me, so I have to ask why you felt the need to lower
your estrogen level initially.
As you may have also noted by hanging out here, the bottom line is that if
it makes you feel worse, don't do it.
You're in the low-normal range for T, and I can see you wanting to boost
that, but, again, why lower the original E level?
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| > On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:52:51 -0500, John wrote
> (in message <43c2d9ee$0$1492$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com> ):
>
>
> Saliva tests are notoriously inaccurate. You should have the actual blood
> work done. It's certainly possible that you have had paradoxical results,
> but
> saliva tests are not a good way of determining that.
>
> Wanderer
>
I'm not sure what the reliability of saliva tests are, but at least for T
they have been pretty accurate for me (at least when the T level is withing
the ref range). I took a saliva test and a blood test at the same time once,
and the T came back approximately the same (although different ref ranges
were used of course). I've tested T a couple of more times using a saliva
test, and the results came back approximately the same (i.e. the T level
reported was pretty consistent). For the other hormones I don't know though.
Still, since I actually felt worse during the time I took DIM, chances are
pretty good that at least the fact that T was decreased and E2 was increased
is correct. I'm of course not sure though...
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|
| > "John" <nospam@no.where> wrote in message
> news:43c2d9ee$0$1492$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com...
>
> Well.......no. Looking at your results, I see that there was some decrease
> in estrone, but a definate increase in estradiol. That is perplexing.
>
> It's a lot like saying asprin made your headache worse.
>
> Hormone levels can vary every 30-minutes to 1/2 hour, but we've really got
> to be reasonable about results and just figure that you have an average of
> what's taking place.
>
> As you may have read from the posts, too little estrogen has about the
> same effect as too much. I don't see where your results were that bad
> prior to taking DIM. You gave a 0.8 pg result with a 0.5-1.5 pg range, and
> that seems totally reasonable to me, so I have to ask why you felt the
> need to lower your estrogen level initially.
>
> As you may have also noted by hanging out here, the bottom line is that if
> it makes you feel worse, don't do it.
>
> You're in the low-normal range for T, and I can see you wanting to boost
> that, but, again, why lower the original E level?
I agree that there is no reason to take DIM with the aim of lowering E2, if
the reported E2 level of 0.8 pg/ml is correct. However, the reason I took
DIM was that an E2 test a couple of months earlier had shown a high normal
E2 level (approximately 1.4 pg/ml if I remember correctly).
No matter whether it was sensible or not to take DIM in this case, it's
still strange that I got opposite results from what could be expected. I
also noticed that the Progesterone level was below the lower end of the ref
range (<15pg/ml, ref range 25-100 pg/ml) on both occations when it was
measured, i.e. both before and after DIM was taken. I don't know if that can
affect anything... ? But I'm not sure what a low Progesterone level will do
to a man?
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| On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:12:48 +0100, "John" <nospam@no.where> wrote:
>
>I'm not sure what the reliability of saliva tests are, but at least for T
>they have been pretty accurate for me (at least when the T level is withing
>the ref range). I took a saliva test and a blood test at the same time once,
>and the T came back approximately the same (although different ref ranges
>were used of course). I've tested T a couple of more times using a saliva
>test, and the results came back approximately the same (i.e. the T level
>reported was pretty consistent). For the other hormones I don't know though.
>Still, since I actually felt worse during the time I took DIM, chances are
>pretty good that at least the fact that T was decreased and E2 was increased
>is correct. I'm of course not sure though...
>
My experience with blood tests is that there is quite a varibility
when it comes to measuring my testosterone. In a 3 month
period I had readings of 260, 125, 241. After 6 weeks on
Testim it was 175. Doctor said that much variation is common.
He said in medical school the students used themselves
to measure testosterone and that much change was common.
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| Muerta 2006-01-11, 12:52 am |
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"Who" <sanman@aool.com> wrote in message
news:dsb8s1teh1odn9ufo0vjqsfahn9a5t0qgr@4ax.com...
>
> My experience with blood tests is that there is quite a varibility
> when it comes to measuring my testosterone. In a 3 month
> period I had readings of 260, 125, 241. After 6 weeks on
> Testim it was 175. Doctor said that much variation is common.
> He said in medical school the students used themselves
> to measure testosterone and that much change was common.
The drop in T level on Testim or Androgel is very, very common. If you
google through this group, you'll find that with the overwhelming majority
of us that have done the gel course, T goes down, estrones go up.
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