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| Hi Greg,
Thanks for the reply and reference. My 6 week trail of Testim
is over. I got the test results and went over them with the endo.
Testosterone measured 175 (ref 200-900) statistically
unchanged. Cholesterol has been 175 +/- 8 (5 readings over
5 years) was 202. PSA over 4 years was 1 +/- .14 measured
1.91, Estraidol 38.9 (10-54), Cortisol 9.7 up from 7.8, and
red blood about the same, in range but close to polycythemia.
My feeling during the trail was unchanged. The endo offered
larger dose. I said that the standard dose had only negative
effects, with none of the positives. He agreed and said he
was sensitive about side effects. I asked again about hCG,
or testosterone shots. He had nothing good to say about
either and does not offer them.
The IGF-1 level went from 96 to 138. The IGF-1 has a
reference range of 36 to 237 but my 138 was flagged
as out of range low. The endo could not explain that.
The last IGF-1 had similar results. I asked about growth
hormone and did not get any answer other than it was
expensive and he would research it. He repeated in no
uncertain words that raising testosterone will raise the
IGF-1 level. I challenged and we agreed to disagree.
He said he likes to see Cortisol levels in the range
of 13 to 16 ( mine were 7.9 and 9.7) He did an
adrenal stimulation test, said to call back in 2 weeks.
My symptoms do not appear to be adrenal related,
but I am still looking for an answer. I got the
impression that if I pass this test he will give up.
This endo has been practicing for 20 years and is very
through in testing. Am I asking too much in trying
to find a doctor who is no longer practicing, but
knows what he is doing? How do I find one?
The other test out of range was eosinophils at 6.3%
with a ref range of 0 to 6. This was not in his area
of knowledge.
"Greg" <not@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dff821cf33a7007989800@news-server.rochester.rr.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> Be prepared to meet physician resistance to order the testing. As a
> retiree, you may have enough risk factors that the Endo is reluctant to
> do the testing. Furthermore, the endo will point out that the results
> of the testing are moot if you don't have the means to finance HGH
> replacement therapy. Additionally, the research on the use of HGH in
> the geriatric population (geriatric = 55 and older)is less than
> compelling yet. I remember that the national institute of health funded
> a study recently ('04 or '05) on the use of testosterone and HGH
> replacement in geriatric men, but the conclusion was that this
> combination therapy wasn't ready for "prime time" yet because the risk
> to benefit ration was still ill defined. Big, expensive studies with
> the pooled data from tens of thousands of participants will eventually
> tip the scales one way or annother.
> To determine HGH deficiency, Insulin tolerance testing (ITT) is the gold
> standard and requires that you have it done in the presence of a
> physician, almost always an endocrinologist. They give you a dose of
> regular insulin calculated to drop your blood sugar very low, usually
> under 40 mg/dl, or until you become symptomatically hypoglycemic. It's
> really no fun. With a BG that low you pore sweat, feel awful, and can't
> really process what they are saying to you very well. Eventually, the
> fight or flight response kicks in and pituitary release of ACTH
> stimulates a surge of cortisol and adrenalin causing the body to self
> correct the low BG. The beauty of the test is that adrenal function can
> be assessed at the same time HGH deficiency is ruled in or out. ITT
> really is the gold standard for both HGH deficiency as well as adrenal
> insufficiency, although other stimulation tests are available.
> I found a great NIH power point type slide presentation on the effects
> of HGH and testosterone replacement in the elderly (males and females)
> (see address at the end of this reply). On page 14 of the presentation
> you can see that a randomized, blinded placebo controlled study showed
> that testosterone replacement alone had no significant effect on IGF-1
> levels in males. Don't know WHERE your doc got that idea from, but I
> urge you to switch to an endocrinologist now if this doc is not one
> already. I STILL suspect that the doc didn't really mean that the
> testim would raise IGF-1. He might have been trying to say that
> testosterone replacement would have a crossover effect on some of the
> same variables. This presentation does make clear that testosterone
> replacement beneficially affects several of the same variables that HGH
> does, but alone, it's effect on IGF-1 levels didn't rise above the
> placebo responce (which was zilch).
>
> See NIH presentation in acrobat pdf format at this address:
>
> http://ods.od.nih.gov/pubs/elderly....man.pdf#search='HGH%
> 20and%20testosterone%20therapy%20in%20elderly%20men'
>
> I believe Blackman's data came from the following study, although it
> wasn't clearly referenced in the PDF presentation:
>
> Title: Growth hormone and sex steroid effects on bone metabolism and
> bone mineral density in healthy aged women and men.
> Source: The journals of gerontology. Series A, Biological sciences and
> medical sciences [1079-5006] Christmas
> yr:2002 vol:57 iss:1 pg:M12 -8
>
> In article <LC5lf.15333$cR4.7713@fe03.lga>, none@none.com says...
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