Impotence Support - SSRI / Depression induced low libido/anorgasmia

Author

SSRI / Depression induced low libido/anorgasmia

hilbertd@gmail.com

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

For about 7 years, I have been on an SSRI (Zoloft) for
depression/chronic headaches.
This medication has been very effective for both problems and I have
stabilized my life - gotten
a great job and married. However, I have suffered low libido and ED
as a result
of this (my marriage has been affected because of this) - I have tried
Viagra but it does
not do anything for libido. I don't experience the "pulse-racing"
experience of sexual desire
(before the depression struck)
any more! My wife has been very understanding but I am desperate to
solve this problem.

About 2 months back - I stopped the Zoloft (after tapering back) but I
have had a severe
return of depressive symptoms and headaches. My physician put me on
Zoloft again
and we are back to square one. I have tried Wellbutrin, Remeron etc but
only
the SSRI class seems to help me with my depression/pain.

Please tell me your stories or advice. I am at my wits end - I just
don't see any hope.
How can a marriage survive with no sex ? We do have a loving
relationship otherwise.

I also want to have kids in a few years. How will I be able to have
kids without being
able to have intercourse ?

Charles

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

On 11 Dec 2005 16:18:27 -0800, hilbertd@gmail.com wrote:

>For about 7 years, I have been on an SSRI (Zoloft) for
>depression/chronic headaches.
>This medication has been very effective for both problems and I have
>stabilized my life - gotten
>a great job and married. However, I have suffered low libido and ED
>as a result
>of this (my marriage has been affected because of this) - I have tried
>Viagra but it does
>not do anything for libido. I don't experience the "pulse-racing"
>experience of sexual desire
>(before the depression struck)
>any more! My wife has been very understanding but I am desperate to
>solve this problem.
>
>About 2 months back - I stopped the Zoloft (after tapering back) but I
>have had a severe
>return of depressive symptoms and headaches. My physician put me on
>Zoloft again
>and we are back to square one. I have tried Wellbutrin, Remeron etc but
>only
>the SSRI class seems to help me with my depression/pain.
>
>Please tell me your stories or advice. I am at my wits end - I just
>don't see any hope.
>How can a marriage survive with no sex ? We do have a loving
>relationship otherwise.
>
>I also want to have kids in a few years. How will I be able to have
>kids without being
>able to have intercourse ?

A friend of mine says Luvox keeps his depression in check without the
sexual side effects.

I use Prozac, sex is something from history.

junkmail2869us@yahoo.com

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

Talk to your doctor about omega 3 fats - fish oil.

I take 1.5 teaspoons of liquid fish oil a day. It cured my life-long
depression. Cured. I've been taking it for 8 months, and I have not had
a moment of the old depression. Yeah, life's troubles are still there,
but the sting is gone.

Incidentally, I posted yesterday about how pomegranate juice greatly
helped my ED. Well, I am NOT an "alternative medicine" kinda guy. But
my incredible experience with fish oil made me realize that there may
be natural therapies that do indeed work.

Everyone is different, and fish oil may not work for you. But it had
dramatic changes on my life, and it's very much worth a try.

Also, google "omega 3 depression" and "fish oil depression" for tons of
evidence that it works.

Good luck. Try this.

William Koloff

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

This may sound simplistc but try fish oil capsules 3 per day for the
depression and CoEnzyme Q10 50 mg. morning and afternoon for the
headache . There is ample research for their effectiveness without the
side effects of prescription meds.

Noon Cat Nick

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

Clinical trials done since 1995 have demonstrated repeatedly that ginkgo
biloba extract ameliorates sexual dysfunction resulting from either
depression or psychotropic medications used to treat depression. The
trials showed success rates of 76% to 84% of subjects. Based on these
trials, the National Foundation for Depressive Illness recommends taking
240mg of ginkgo biloba extract daily for four to six weeks. If sexual
problems continue after six weeks, the herb may be considered not to
work in your particular case.

Ginkgo biloba extract is not contraindicated for Zoloft.

N.B.: Check the label before purchasing. Some companies lace their
ginkgo capsules with caffeine or other substances, which might react
adversely with your medication. This is sometimes done because ginkgo
biloba is promoted as enhancing brain function, and such substances give
the consumer the illusion that the herb is working more quickly than it
actually is.

HTH.

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

however, i do suffer from chronic
lack of partner, but i don't think any dose is going to fix that.

LMac

2005-12-12, 12:55 am

Repousse@gmail.com

2005-12-12, 10:53 am

By all means try the non-medical suggestions provided to you by group
members. However, it does sound like you have a very persistent
depression that requires ongoing treatment. There is a new
antidepressant that REPORTEDLY causes no sexual problems (according to
the company reps [E Lilly, I think] who visit me all the time). It is
called Cymbalta (duloxetine) and your doctor should be well supplied
with enough samples for you to try it out for the required 4 - 8 weeks.
The company is really pushing it. Patients usually respond swiftly to
Cymbalta and you may notice a response in as little as 2 weeks.
Serzone (nefazodone) is still available as a generic. Serzone has
almost no incidence of sex-related problems. The original manufacturer
of Serzone pulled it because of potential liver problems. A simple
liver test (a blood draw) every 3 - 6 months or so should rule out
liver problems.
My own bias, incidentally, is that depression should be treated by a
psychiatrist, not a general practitioner. There are many medical
"tricks" known to psychiatrists elicit only a blank look from a GP.

Ignatz's Bricks

2005-12-12, 10:53 am

junkmail2869us@yahoo.com wrote:

> Talk to your doctor about omega 3 fats - fish oil.
>
> I take 1.5 teaspoons of liquid fish oil a day. It cured my life-long
> depression.

and

William Koloff wrote:

> This may sound simplistc but try fish oil capsules 3 per day for the
> depression

OK, time for a cholesterol warning.

If you have high Cholesterol, taking fish oil will probably:
1) Decrease your Triglycerides (Which is good.)
2) Reduce your Good Cholesterol (Which is bad!)
3) Increase your Bad Cholesterol (Which is bad!)

Please note, I said "probably". Each person is different. Some sources
say taking vitiamine E or C or garlic with the fish oil will prevent
this, but when I tried them, they did not help with the increase in LDL.

Ignatz's Bricks

Peabody

2005-12-12, 10:53 am

Ignatz's Bricks says...

> OK, time for a cholesterol warning.

> If you have high Cholesterol, taking fish oil will
> probably:
> 1) Decrease your Triglycerides (Which is good.)
> 2) Reduce your Good Cholesterol (Which is bad!)
> 3) Increase your Bad Cholesterol (Which is bad!)

Could you give me a link or two that support this?

> Please note, I said "probably". Each person is
> different. Some sources say taking vitiamine E or C or
> garlic with the fish oil will prevent this, but when I
> tried them, they did not help with the increase in LDL.

Wanderer

2005-12-13, 12:52 am

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:57:39 -0500, Noon Cat Nick wrote
(in message <439CF531.9000504@hotmail.com> ):

> Clinical trials done since 1995 have demonstrated repeatedly that ginkgo
> biloba extract ameliorates sexual dysfunction resulting from either
> depression or psychotropic medications used to treat depression.

Please document those studies Noon Cat Nick. The ones that clearly
demonstrate that ginkgo biloba helps with sexual dysfunction due to
depression or medications. Since you used the word "repeatedly," I'm assuming
there are a whole lot of studies conducted since 1995. Thanks for your help!

Wanderer

Wanderer

2005-12-13, 12:52 am

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:18:27 -0500, hilbertd@gmail.com wrote
(in message <1134346707.465709.208040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> ):

> For about 7 years, I have been on an SSRI (Zoloft) for
> depression/chronic headaches.
> This medication has been very effective for both problems and I have
> stabilized my life - gotten
> a great job and married. However, I have suffered low libido and ED
> as a result
> of this (my marriage has been affected because of this) - I have tried
> Viagra but it does
> not do anything for libido. I don't experience the "pulse-racing"
> experience of sexual desire
> (before the depression struck)
> any more! My wife has been very understanding but I am desperate to
> solve this problem.
>
> About 2 months back - I stopped the Zoloft (after tapering back) but I
> have had a severe
> return of depressive symptoms and headaches. My physician put me on
> Zoloft again
> and we are back to square one. I have tried Wellbutrin, Remeron etc but
> only
> the SSRI class seems to help me with my depression/pain.
>
> Please tell me your stories or advice. I am at my wits end - I just
> don't see any hope.
> How can a marriage survive with no sex ? We do have a loving
> relationship otherwise.
>
> I also want to have kids in a few years. How will I be able to have
> kids without being
> able to have intercourse ?
>

Your post raises a few questions. First, are you completely unable to have
intercourse now? Or can you get you still get an erection with Viagra? If
Viagra is still helpful, you may find that Cialis works just as well, AND
helps with libido, with fewer side effects.

As someone who spent years recovering from SSRI use, I urge you to seek
alternative forms of therapy. Among other things, SSRIs lower testosterone
levels. I suspect that if you have blood work done, you will find that your T
levels are low for your age.

I have never heard of SSRIs being used to treat headaches/pain -- only
depression. What is your doctor's field of specialty? Have you discussed your
sexual side effects with him or her? What does the doctor say about your
sexual issues, and other possible medicinal options? Do you think it might be
time to seek a second opinion?

Wanderer

Noon Cat Nick

2005-12-13, 10:53 am

Wanderer wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:57:39 -0500, Noon Cat Nick wrote
>(in message <439CF531.9000504@hotmail.com> ):
>
>
>
>Please document those studies Noon Cat Nick. The ones that clearly
>demonstrate that ginkgo biloba helps with sexual dysfunction due to
>depression or medications. Since you used the word "repeatedly," I'm assuming
>there are a whole lot of studies conducted since 1995. Thanks for your help!
>

I came up with these specific reports on a quick Google search. HTH.

* * * * * * *

"Long Term Safety and Efficacy of Ginkgo Biloba Extract in the Treatment
of Anti- Depressant-Induced Sexual Dysfunction," Alan Jay Cohen, M.D. ,
Diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, Assistant
Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the university of California,San
Francisco (1997)

Five patients treated for DSM-IV diagnosis of Depression with an SSRI
(fluoxetine or sertraline) developed sexual dysfunction during the
course of their treatment. The three men in the study reported
anorgasmia, decreased libido, and erectile failure. The two women had
anorgasmia, delayed orgasm and decreased libido. Each patient was
started on a course of GBE 60 mg. (50:1 extract) twice a day.
There were no contraindications for the use of GBE, such as use of
anticoagulants, coagulopathy,nor allergy to GBE.
Doses were titrated to 120 mg. twice a day over a 4 week period.
Patients were assessed by clinical interview and subject reporting on
the following parameters: change in libido, ability to achieve orgasm,
and erectile competence.
Results:
Sexual dysfunction was effectively reversed by GBE 240 mg. per day in
each patient. Each patient chose to continue the treatment for an open
ended period with clinical monitoring of symptoms. Three patients
described brief periods of discontinuation of the GBE with a concomitant
return of the ASD. The male patients,ages 45, 42, and 38, each had a
single episode of non- psychotic major depression. The women, 48 and 49,
had recurrent, unipolar depression, non-psychotic. Both women also had
Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Their thyroid indices were normal on
replacement T-4.
There were no other medical conditions, nor substance abuse problems.
Adverse reactions to the GBE were minimal and did not disrupt the
treatment. Some gastro- intestinal complaints and lightheadedness were
reported. No abnormal bleeding nor bruising occurred.
References:
1. Cohen, A.(1996) "Treatment of Antidepressant- Induced Sexual
Dysfunction with Ginkgo Biloba Extract" New Research Report from The
Proceedings of The American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting
Abstract #716 .
2. Cohen, A., Bartlik, B. (1997) " Treatment of Sexual Dysfunction with
Ginkgo Biloba Extract" Scientific Reports -Paper Session from The
Proceedings of The APA Annual Meeting .
3. LeBars, P., et al. (1997) "A Placebo-Controlled, Double-Blind,
Randomized Trial of an Extract of Ginkgo Biloba for Dementia" JAMA; 278:
1372-1332.
4.Braquet, P. Hosford,D.(1991) "Ethnopharmacology and the Development of
Natural PAF Antagonists as Therapeutic Agents" J. Ethno- pharmacology, ;
32:135-139.
5. Kleijnen,J. , Knipschild, P. (1992) "Ginkgo Biloba" Lancet ;
340:1136-39.
6. Gitlin, M. (1997) "Sexual Side Effects of Psychotropic Medications"
in Psychiatric Clinics of North America , Annual of Drug Therapy vol. 4
pg. 61-90. .
Copyright © Priory Lodge education Limited 1997

* * * * * * * * *

Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 1998; 24:139-143.
"Patients taking prescription antidepressants often experience unwanted
sexual side effects. In this open clinical trial, researchers treated 33
women and 30 men experiencing this problem with 80 to 120 mg of ginkgo
extract per day. All patients continued taking their usual
antidepressant medication during the trial. (Most were using SSRI-type
drugs such as fluoxetine or sertraline.) At the end of the four-week
trial, results were assessed through clinical interviews and patient
self-reports. Ginkgo treatment was reported to be effective for 91
percent of female patients and 76 percent of males. All of the patients
for whom ginkgo was effective expressed interest in continuing the
herbal treatment. The authors mention possible mechanisms of action to
explain ginkgo's observed effect and call for future double-blind
studies on the topic."

* * * * * * *

In a 1999 open trial, GBE was administered to 30 men and 33 women
suffering from sexual side effects attributed to the use of
antidepressant drugs. All but 15 patients were taking selective
serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Sexual side effects ranged from
decreased libido and erectile difficulties to delayed or inhibited
orgasm. In men, previous treatment with cyproheptadine, yohimbine,
amantadine, buspirone, or antidepressant dose reduction had failed.
Patients were prescribed ginkgo biloba extract in a daily dose of 80 to
120 mg. After four weeks, they were reevaluated for symptoms of sexual
dysfunction. With 84% of the patients reporting positive results in all
phases of the sexual response cycle, the herb shows it may have
applications beyond cognitive function enhancement. Women did fare
better than men in the study with 91% indicating success. The success
rate for men was 76%. No adverse effects were reported and the use of
ginkgo biloba appeared to be compatible with antidepressant therapy. As
in most other studies, the researchers reported that many patients also
experienced improved cognitive functioning, mental clarity, memory, and
increased energy.1
Like most GBE studies on sexual dysfunction, another group of
researchers also attributed the extract’s success to its ability to aid
circulatory function. In their study, 78% of men who had impotence
caused by impaired blood flow regained erections after using GBE.2
According to Dr. Stephen Karch, a specialist in cardiac pathology and
author of The Consumer’s Guide to Herbal Medicine, ancient Chinese
herbalists referred to ginkgo as an aphrodisiac. Karch says ginkgo
enhances nitric oxide production, which is a key factor in helping males
achieve erections. Nitric oxide is a messenger, informing certain blood
vessels to relax. Karch also notes that since ginkgo improves syndromes
related to hardening of the arteries in the legs, the arterial complex
supplying the genitals is usually involved as well.3
References
1. Cohen AJ, Bartlik B. Ginkgo biloba for antidepressant-induced sexual
dysfunction. J Sex Marital Therapy 1998; 24:139-45.
2. Nidus Information Services, Inc. Well-Connected Report: Impotence
(Erectile Dysfunction). June 1999.
3. Michaud, S. Ginkgo Below. Salon Magazine July 1999.
http://www.salon.com/health/feature.../ginkgo_biloba.

* * * * * * *

Ginkgo Supplements Useful for SSRI-Related Sexual Dysfunction - Clinical
Psychiatry News, 9/2002
"Ginkgo has multiple systemic effects. It acts as a free-radical
scavenger, inhibits platelet aggregation, causes vasodilation, and
allows more efficient cellular uptake of oxygen and glucose. The effects
of ginkgo on sexual arousal are thought to result from increased blood
circulation to the genital area..."

Ignatz's Bricks

2005-12-13, 10:53 am

Peabody wrote:
> Ignatz's Bricks says...
>
>
> Could you give me a link or two that support this?

Sorry, but I can't.

Fish oil was one of the first things that I tried to reduce my
triglycerides. It helped on triglyerides, and gave me a slight overall
cholesterol lowering, but the LDL cholesterol went sky high! On
rereading several studies (I googled "fish oil" and triglycerides ) I
see that this was a known problem, and I found there were several
theories why this happened. None of the suggested "fixes" worked for me.

Ignatz's Bricks

Ignatz's Bricks

2005-12-13, 10:53 am

JohnK@myday.com

2005-12-17, 10:52 am

hilbertd@gmail.com wrote:
> For about 7 years, I have been on an SSRI (Zoloft) for
> depression/chronic headaches.
> This medication has been very effective for both problems and I have
> stabilized my life - gotten
> a great job and married. However, I have suffered low libido and ED
> as a result
> of this (my marriage has been affected because of this) - I have tried
> Viagra but it does
> not do anything for libido. I don't experience the "pulse-racing"
> experience of sexual desire
> (before the depression struck)
> any more! My wife has been very understanding but I am desperate to
> solve this problem.
>
> About 2 months back - I stopped the Zoloft (after tapering back) but I
> have had a severe
> return of depressive symptoms and headaches. My physician put me on
> Zoloft again
> and we are back to square one. I have tried Wellbutrin, Remeron etc but
> only
> the SSRI class seems to help me with my depression/pain.
>

Seems to me, you should be looking to get off these ssri's. One Q-
never answered by
the mfg's is:
Does the brain adjust to long-term artificially hi levels of serotonin
by making fewer receptors for serotonin?? ( mother nature thinks you
don't need as many....you know, use them or lose them) The
consequence of trying to wean off them, should then be, you'll feel
much worse than b-4 you started on them.

Just remembered I had this, don't know how useful it might be.
Snoop on Google, might be more groups or weaning-off formulas.

WELCOME TO THE SSRI WITHDRAWAL SUPPORT
http://www.network54.com/Forum/281849/page-8

Letter from MindFreedom to federal agencies.
9 December 2003
<snip>
The following language from their web site is similar to their TV ad:
"Although the way Zoloft works for depression, panic disorder, OCD, and
PTSD is not completely understood, what is understood is that Zoloft is
a medicine that helps correct the chemical imbalance of serotonin in
the brain."

Pfizer, Inc. does not explain the following important indisputable
fact: There is no scientific evidence for such a chemical imbalance.
For example, there is no reliable diagnostic lab test for any alleged
chemical imbalance for any mental disorder.

http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/pfizerlies.shtml

Advertisements for SSRIs May Be Misleading
Laurie Barclay, MD
<snipped>
Another difficulty with using the efficacy of SSRIs in depression to
bolster the serotonin hypothesis is that the efficacy itself is
problematic. A meta-analysis cited in the PLoS Medicine essay reviewed
all clinical trials of antidepressants submitted to the U.S. Food and
Drug Administration (FDA).

This meta-analysis showed that placebo duplicated about 80% of the
antidepressant response, and that more than half of pharmaceutical
company-
sponsored trials failed to show a statistically significant difference
between
antidepressant and placebo. Moreover, antidepressants that do not
affect
serotonin are as effective as SSRIs in reducing symptoms of depression,
and
even placebo and nonpharmacologic treatments have been shown to have
robust effects.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/516262

Shamus

2005-12-17, 10:52 am

I'm just going by what my doctor told me one time about SSRI's.
Sort of like taking testosterone for body building, your testicles get
smaller and don't put out as much testosterone because you're getting
it from somewhere else.

The same for Seratonin, the brain stops making as much Seratonin and is
limited
to the amount that you're feeding it. That's why u get withdrawl symptoms
when
u stop SSRI's all at once. U have to gradually withdraw the SSRI and give
the
brain time to readjust to making more Seratonin on it's own.

He told me they had a conference in England and at the conference it was
announced
that the depression wasn't due to not enough Seratonin in the brain, but was
caused
by having too much Seratonin.

The hypothesis was that when u fed the brain Seratonin, the brain quit
manufacuring it;
then the amount u fed it through trial and error until the depression left
was the result
of the brain finally getting the right amount of Seratonin and there by
balancing out
the chemical inbalance.

My wife definately does well on SSRI's, and I can't take them because they
make me
way to nervous and sick, so it definately all depends on the individual.

My doctor also told me that if a person wants to get off of SSRI's, the best
way of going
about it was to switch to Lexapro because Lexapro has very low side effects.
My wife
quit Paxil and went straight to Lexapro without any problems what so ever.

He also told me that if you decide to quit Lexapro, you might only have a
week of withdrawls
compared to a month on the other SSRI's.

Now this is all 2nd hand information from my doctor, and doctors are only
human too, so if
this information doesn't hold water; well I tried to pass on what I was
informed about the best I could. :-)
Shamus

"JohnK@myday.com" <JonLeipzig@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1134830041.593229.230800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> hilbertd@gmail.com wrote:
-------------snip-[vbcol=seagreen]
> Seems to me, you should be looking to get off these ssri's. One Q-
> never answered by
> the mfg's is:
> Does the brain adjust to long-term artificially hi levels of serotonin
> by making fewer receptors for serotonin?? ( mother nature thinks you
> don't need as many....you know, use them or lose them) The
> consequence of trying to wean off them, should then be, you'll feel
> much worse than b-4 you started on them.