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Home > Archive > Impotence Support > November 2005 > Do I need testosterone or growth hormone
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Do I need testosterone or growth hormone
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| I went to doctor with my main symptoms being lack of
power and abdominal fat inspite of reasonable diet and
exercise. After prompting I got the following test results.
TSH 2.52 (.32-4.84)
FSH 1.7 (1.4-18.1)
LH 1.6 (1.5-34.6)
Testosterone 259 (168-796)
% free T 2.09 (1.5-2.2)
Free T 54.2 (55-90)
I told the doctor it looks like a pituitary problem.
He says not worth investigating. Try these testosterone
patches and here is some medicine that will give you gas
if you eat too much. I said no thank you.
Next I went to endocrinologist. He did MRI that showed
no pituitary tumors and got test results as follows.
Free T 31.9 (47-244)
cortisol 7.8 (5-25)
prolactin 5.7 (2.6-29.9)
IGF-1 96 (402-839)
His recommendation was testosterone gel. I ask about HCG
because it seems to fit better with low T, FSH, and LH.
He says too expensive. I say cheaper than gel. He says
too hard to dose and monitor and I don't need fertility.
I do not have depression, mood swings, low libido, or
erectile dysfunction. Symptoms seem to line up better
with lack of growth hormone and the IGF-1 seems more
out of whack than the testosterone. He says that the
testosterone should bring the IGF-1 up, try the gel for
6 weeks and retest. He is much better than first doctor.
Being the experiential type I am going to give it a try.
Should I be looking for a third opinion on the treatment
method? If so how does one go about finding a doctor
who can better treat without going through a lot of trail
and error?
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| Muerta 2005-11-11, 6:26 pm |
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"ray" <ray@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:CEQ9f.7922$7s1.706@fe04.lga...
>
> His recommendation was testosterone gel. I ask about HCG
> because it seems to fit better with low T, FSH, and LH.
> He says too expensive. I say cheaper than gel. He says
> too hard to dose and monitor and I don't need fertility.
>
You can always try taking him this, Ray. It's the endo's "bible" on
hypogiandism.
http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf
It does look like your growth hormone is out of whack. Maybe if you take the
endo material in, and have a heart to heart with a request to, "humor me for
8 weeks, and we'll re-evaluate", you can make some headway.
If you do the gel, make sure you get an E2 test at the re-testing time. We
all like breasts, we just don't want to wear them ourselves ;-)
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| Joe D. 2005-11-11, 6:27 pm |
| "ray" <ray@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:CEQ9f.7922$7s1.706@fe04.lga...
> Free T 31.9 (47-244)
> cortisol 7.8 (5-25)
> prolactin 5.7 (2.6-29.9)
> IGF-1 96 (402-839)
>
> His recommendation was testosterone gel. I ask about HCG
> because it seems to fit better with low T, FSH, and LH.
> He says too expensive. I say cheaper than gel. He says
> too hard to dose and monitor and I don't need fertility.
hCG is MUCH cheaper than Androgel, unless your insurance
pays for the gel.
Endos frequently think hCG is expensive because the high
dosages required for infertility treatment can be expensive.
But contrast the amt typically needed for male hypogonadism
are quite small -- 1000 to 1500 IU per week, sometimes even
less.
Despite requiring injection, many find it easier and less messy
to use. No worry about gel rubbing off and contaminating
women or children. No messy icky feeling on the skin. No
worry about properly sequencing gel application and bathing.
hCG avoids testicular shinkage and atrophy that often
accompanies testosterone.
While fertility is the classic reason for hCG over T, as stated
above there are other advantages.
If you want hCG, it's your body. Tell him you don't want
testicular shrinkage, or tell him you might want kids, get
a young wife, etc.
That said, there's nothing really wrong with taking testosterone,
especially given your test numbers. You really need something,
whether hCG or T. Either one will probably make you feel
much better, so look on the good side.
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| Joe D. 2005-11-11, 6:27 pm |
| Forgot to add, another beef endos have with
hCG is the literature says intra-muscular injection,
I think with a 1.5" 22 gauge needle. Many patients are too
squeamish to self-inject that.
However hCG works fine for subcutaneous injection with a
1/2" 30 gauge insulin syringe. Almost anybody can do that.
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| Mr. Softy 2005-11-11, 6:27 pm |
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"Joe D." <joe@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:bj5af.31781$_31.20873@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Forgot to add, another beef endos have with
> hCG is the literature says intra-muscular injection,
> I think with a 1.5" 22 gauge needle. Many patients are too
> squeamish to self-inject that.
>
> However hCG works fine for subcutaneous injection with a
> 1/2" 30 gauge insulin syringe. Almost anybody can do that.
22 gauge! Ouch. I would play along with the Endo and tell him you don't
mind the 22 gauge needles. Then I would just use the 30 gauge insulin
syringe. You can buy them at most pharmacies or you can order them online.
Animal supply houses sell them either per unit with or without needles, or
in boxes of 100 for about $20.
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"Joe D." <joe@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:PJ4af.1890$ZR1.667@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> "ray" <ray@somewhere.net> wrote in message
> news:CEQ9f.7922$7s1.706@fe04.lga...
>
>
> hCG is MUCH cheaper than Androgel, unless your insurance
> pays for the gel.
>
> Endos frequently think hCG is expensive because the high
> dosages required for infertility treatment can be expensive.
>
> But contrast the amt typically needed for male hypogonadism
> are quite small -- 1000 to 1500 IU per week, sometimes even
> less.
>
> Despite requiring injection, many find it easier and less messy
> to use. No worry about gel rubbing off and contaminating
> women or children. No messy icky feeling on the skin. No
> worry about properly sequencing gel application and bathing.
>
> hCG avoids testicular shinkage and atrophy that often
> accompanies testosterone.
Thanks for your reply. I have made all these arguments with
the endo already. I figure that the free samples of the gel for
6 weeks will be a fair trail to see if there is a difference. If so
then I will shop for a hCG endo. Any ideas oh finding one
who takes medicare in southern California?
The pellets seem like the most convenient way. Any other
pros or cons?
> While fertility is the classic reason for hCG over T, as stated
> above there are other advantages.
>
> If you want hCG, it's your body. Tell him you don't want
> testicular shrinkage, or tell him you might want kids, get
> a young wife, etc.
I am 65 with a vesectomy, it might be a hard sell
> That said, there's nothing really wrong with taking testosterone,
> especially given your test numbers. You really need something,
> whether hCG or T. Either one will probably make you feel
> much better, so look on the good side.
I am giving the gel a 6 week try. I have some short hiking
segments that am timing to see if there is a difference in
performance. I feel good now. Neither my wife nor I have
noticed any change. I am open minded about it.
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| Joe D. 2005-11-11, 6:27 pm |
| "ray" <ray@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:Mi7af.8399$7s1.908@fe04.lga...
>
> I figure that the free samples of the gel for
> 6 weeks will be a fair trail to see if there is a difference. If so
> then I will shop for a hCG endo. Any ideas oh finding one
> who takes medicare in southern California?
Nothing wrong with gel, it's just more messy than hCG, plus
Drs often prescribe too low a dose and don't do adequate
follow up testing. Men vary by 10-to-1 in skin permeability.
Most men do OK on the 5g or 10g Androgel packets but others
require much more. The Androgel package insert says Drs should
re-test every few weeks until desired serum T levels are reached.
Make sure your Dr does this.
>
> The pellets seem like the most convenient way. Any other
> pros or cons?
Pellets have advantages but aren't often used in the US and
most Drs aren't familiar with them.
>
> I am 65 with a vesectomy, it might be a hard sell
>
Understood. You could tell him you have severe psychological
and self image hang ups about testicular shrinkage. Just a
thought, and it's not that far out as many men are bothered by it.
>
> I am giving the gel a 6 week try. I have some short hiking
> segments that am timing to see if there is a difference in
> performance. I feel good now. Neither my wife nor I have
> noticed any change. I am open minded about it.
Make sure follow up testing shows your serum T levels reach
the proper level -- AT LEAST mid-point of the ref range.
Many men have taken T, not been re-tested, and feel worse,
or only have temporary improvement.
What happens is their internal production shuts down, thus
leaving the external T to carry the entire load -- like putting
a space heater in a room with an underperforming furnace.
This is one reason why re-testing and dosage adjustment is
needed.
Low as your T level was, increasing it to mid-range should
quickly make you feel better -- increased energy, mood and
libido. However men vary in the degree and rapidity of response.
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| Muerta 2005-11-11, 6:27 pm |
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"Joe D." <joe@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:bj5af.31781$_31.20873@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Forgot to add, another beef endos have with
> hCG is the literature says intra-muscular injection,
> I think with a 1.5" 22 gauge needle. Many patients are too
> squeamish to self-inject that.
>
> However hCG works fine for subcutaneous injection with a
> 1/2" 30 gauge insulin syringe. Almost anybody can do that.
>
Endo had me on HMG for quite a while, then switched to HCG.....I always did
the 30ga sub-q 1 1/2 inches outside of the umbillicus.
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