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1.5 million Americans a year affected by medication errors
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|
| Roman Bystrianyk 2006-07-24, 2:25 am |
| "1.5 million Americans a year affected by medication errors", Seattle
Times, July 21, 2006,
Link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...ugerrors21.html
At least 1.5 million Americans are sickened, injured or killed each
year by avoidable errors in prescribing, dispensing and taking
medications, the influential Institute of Medicine concludes in a major
report released Thursday.
Mistakes in giving drugs are so prevalent in hospitals that, on
average, a patient will be subjected to a medication error each day he
or she fills a hospital bed, the report says.
Following up on its 2000 report on medical errors of all kinds, the
institute, a branch of the National Academy of Sciences, undertook the
most extensive study ever of medication errors at the request of
Congress when it passed the Medicare Modernization Act in 2003.
The report found errors to be not only harmful and widespread, but
costly as well. The extra medical cost of treating drug-related
injuries occurring only in hospitals was estimated to be at least $3.5
billion a year.
"The frequency of medication errors and preventable adverse drug events
is cause for serious concern," said Linda Cronenwett, dean of the
School of Nursing at the university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
and co-chair of the panel that researched the report. She and other
panel members said the problem requires immediate action.
"Everyone in the health-care system knows this is a major problem, but
there's been very little action and it's generally remained on the back
burner," panel member Charles Inlander said. "With this report, we hope
to give everyone involved good, hard information on how they can
prevent medication errors, and then create some pressure to have them
implement it."
The report endorsed much wider use of electronic prescribing, which it
says reduces errors, and encouraged technology improvements so the many
computer programs used by doctors, hospitals and drugstores are
compatible.
The errors the institute studied included doctors writing illegible
prescriptions, nurses giving one patient medication intended for
another, and a local pharmacist dispensing 100-milligram pills rather
than the prescribed 50 milligrams.
The report spotlighted the case of Betsy Lehman, a health reporter for
The Boston Globe. The 39-year-old wife and mother of two was being
treated for breast cancer in an experimental program at the Dana-Farber
Cancer Institute in 1994.
A medical fellow wrote a prescription for the cancer drugs citing the
total amount she was to receive over four days, the report said. She
died when nurses administered that total each day, overwhelming her
system. The hospital had no system in place to monitor dosages, and her
family argued that staff did not pay attention to her complaints about
the effects of the overdose, according to the report.
The report did not address whether some drugs should be pulled from the
market because of their intrinsic risks or whether the Food and Drug
Administration does an adequate job of ensuring that approved drugs are
safe for general use. That is the subject of another study expected to
be released soon by the institute.
With more than 4 billion prescriptions written each year in the United
States, even a very small error rate can translate into a large number
of problems.
Among the drugs most commonly associated with errors in hospitals are
insulin, morphine, potassium chloride and the anticoagulants heparin
and warfarin, which have a high risk of patient injury when dispensed
incorrectly.
The report cited a 2002 study from the United States Pharmacopeia that
found that these five drugs accounted for 28 percent of all errors that
resulted in extended hospitalizations. Insulin alone accounted for a
third of that total.
The panel cited a variety of causes for the problems.
One is unexpected drug interactions. With more than 15,000 prescription
drugs in use and 300,000 over-the-counter products, "it is virtually
impossible for a human to track all the interactions anymore," said Dr.
Wilson Pace of the university of Colorado.
Another is the similarity between drug names, which often results in
the wrong drug being given. For example, Fosamax, the osteoporosis
drug, could be mistaken for Flomax, given to improve urination in
patients with an enlarged prostate.
Other problems include patients not understanding how to take the
drugs.
The report said errors in hospitals and long-term-care facilities
generally are not reported to patients or family members unless they
result in injury or death. The panel said all health-care organizations
should report medication errors to patients whether they cause harm or
not.
Based on existing studies, the panel estimated that drug errors cause
at least 400,000 preventable injuries and deaths in hospitals each
year, more than 800,000 in nursing homes and facilities for the
elderly, and 530,000 among Medicare recipients treated in outpatient
clinics. The report said the actual numbers are likely much higher.
Inlander, president of the People's Medical Society, a Pennsylvania
consumer-health advocacy group, said that the institute panel sought
information about how many people may have died as a result of drug
errors, but that the estimates were so different - from 7,000 to
50,000 a year - that they were not included in the report.
| |
| Jan Drew 2006-07-24, 2:25 am |
| Thanks again, Roman. Sad so few HERE [MHA] are interested.
"Roman Bystrianyk" <rbystrianyk@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153709354.423232.221570@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "1.5 million Americans a year affected by medication errors", Seattle
> Times, July 21, 2006,
> Link:
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...ugerrors21.html
>
> At least 1.5 million Americans are sickened, injured or killed each
> year by avoidable errors in prescribing, dispensing and taking
> medications, the influential Institute of Medicine concludes in a major
> report released Thursday.
>
> Mistakes in giving drugs are so prevalent in hospitals that, on
> average, a patient will be subjected to a medication error each day he
> or she fills a hospital bed, the report says.
>
> Following up on its 2000 report on medical errors of all kinds, the
> institute, a branch of the National Academy of Sciences, undertook the
> most extensive study ever of medication errors at the request of
> Congress when it passed the Medicare Modernization Act in 2003.
>
> The report found errors to be not only harmful and widespread, but
> costly as well. The extra medical cost of treating drug-related
> injuries occurring only in hospitals was estimated to be at least $3.5
> billion a year.
>
> "The frequency of medication errors and preventable adverse drug events
> is cause for serious concern," said Linda Cronenwett, dean of the
> School of Nursing at the university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
> and co-chair of the panel that researched the report. She and other
> panel members said the problem requires immediate action.
>
> "Everyone in the health-care system knows this is a major problem, but
> there's been very little action and it's generally remained on the back
> burner," panel member Charles Inlander said. "With this report, we hope
> to give everyone involved good, hard information on how they can
> prevent medication errors, and then create some pressure to have them
> implement it."
>
> The report endorsed much wider use of electronic prescribing, which it
> says reduces errors, and encouraged technology improvements so the many
> computer programs used by doctors, hospitals and drugstores are
> compatible.
>
> The errors the institute studied included doctors writing illegible
> prescriptions, nurses giving one patient medication intended for
> another, and a local pharmacist dispensing 100-milligram pills rather
> than the prescribed 50 milligrams.
>
> The report spotlighted the case of Betsy Lehman, a health reporter for
> The Boston Globe. The 39-year-old wife and mother of two was being
> treated for breast cancer in an experimental program at the Dana-Farber
> Cancer Institute in 1994.
>
> A medical fellow wrote a prescription for the cancer drugs citing the
> total amount she was to receive over four days, the report said. She
> died when nurses administered that total each day, overwhelming her
> system. The hospital had no system in place to monitor dosages, and her
> family argued that staff did not pay attention to her complaints about
> the effects of the overdose, according to the report.
>
> The report did not address whether some drugs should be pulled from the
> market because of their intrinsic risks or whether the Food and Drug
> Administration does an adequate job of ensuring that approved drugs are
> safe for general use. That is the subject of another study expected to
> be released soon by the institute.
>
> With more than 4 billion prescriptions written each year in the United
> States, even a very small error rate can translate into a large number
> of problems.
>
> Among the drugs most commonly associated with errors in hospitals are
> insulin, morphine, potassium chloride and the anticoagulants heparin
> and warfarin, which have a high risk of patient injury when dispensed
> incorrectly.
>
> The report cited a 2002 study from the United States Pharmacopeia that
> found that these five drugs accounted for 28 percent of all errors that
> resulted in extended hospitalizations. Insulin alone accounted for a
> third of that total.
>
> The panel cited a variety of causes for the problems.
>
> One is unexpected drug interactions. With more than 15,000 prescription
> drugs in use and 300,000 over-the-counter products, "it is virtually
> impossible for a human to track all the interactions anymore," said Dr.
> Wilson Pace of the university of Colorado.
>
> Another is the similarity between drug names, which often results in
> the wrong drug being given. For example, Fosamax, the osteoporosis
> drug, could be mistaken for Flomax, given to improve urination in
> patients with an enlarged prostate.
>
> Other problems include patients not understanding how to take the
> drugs.
>
> The report said errors in hospitals and long-term-care facilities
> generally are not reported to patients or family members unless they
> result in injury or death. The panel said all health-care organizations
> should report medication errors to patients whether they cause harm or
> not.
>
> Based on existing studies, the panel estimated that drug errors cause
> at least 400,000 preventable injuries and deaths in hospitals each
> year, more than 800,000 in nursing homes and facilities for the
> elderly, and 530,000 among Medicare recipients treated in outpatient
> clinics. The report said the actual numbers are likely much higher.
>
> Inlander, president of the People's Medical Society, a Pennsylvania
> consumer-health advocacy group, said that the institute panel sought
> information about how many people may have died as a result of drug
> errors, but that the estimates were so different - from 7,000 to
> 50,000 a year - that they were not included in the report.
>
| |
| vernon 2006-07-24, 4:27 pm |
|
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:SMZwg.55475$VE1.34119@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Thanks again, Roman. Sad so few HERE [MHA] are interested.
There are so few here on MHA who are interested in the purpose of MHA.
You would think Pharms and doctors (especially surgeons) were trying to
protect their idiocy.
>
> "Roman Bystrianyk" <rbystrianyk@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1153709354.423232.221570@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
| |
| Mark Probert 2006-07-24, 9:26 pm |
| vernon wrote:
>
> There are so few here on MHA who are interested in the purpose of MHA.
Vernon, you are so right. Whenever the cons of any alternative medicine
are being discussed, there are those who just have to trash the person.
Furthermore, you have others who cannot think for themselves, so they
marginalize anyone with whom they disagree.
Finally, there are those people who think that trashing conventional
medicine is somehow discussing alternative health.
| |
| Jan Drew 2006-07-24, 9:26 pm |
|
"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:gbbxg.164$9r1.16@fe11.lga...
> vernon wrote:
>
Mark still hasn't learned to quote properly.
vernon did not write that. I did. As Mark clearly read.
So much for Mark's UDP.
I knew it wouldn't last. Dishonest Mark Probert is exposed. AGAIN.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Vernon, you are so right. Whenever the cons of any alternative medicine
> are being discussed, there are those who just have to trash the person.
Hmm. The liars of conventional and organized medicine do exactly that.
Mark is a number one example.
>
> Furthermore, you have others who cannot think for themselves, so they
> marginalize anyone with whom they disagree.
That wouldn't be trashing.
Poor Mark.
>
> Finally, there are those people who think that trashing conventional
> medicine is somehow discussing alternative health.
Alternative IS *alternative* from conventional.
A fact dismissed by most of the *gang*.
| |
| David Wright 2006-07-25, 2:27 am |
| In article <44c4eccc$0$18784$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com>,
vernon <there@there> wrote:
>
>"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:SMZwg.55475$VE1.34119@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>There are so few here on MHA who are interested in the purpose of MHA.
>
>
>You would think Pharms and doctors (especially surgeons) were trying to
>protect their idiocy.
Well, golly, vernon, you do a very poor job of protecting your own
idiocy. Perhaps you should designate someone as a proxy to protect
it for you.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-25, 4:28 pm |
|
David Wright wrote:
> In article <44c4eccc$0$18784$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com>,
> vernon <there@there> wrote:
>
> Well, golly, vernon, you do a very poor job of protecting your own
> idiocy. Perhaps you should designate someone as a proxy to protect
> it for you.
There might have been a time, in the infancy of the newsgroups, when
such insults were amusing or clever. I'm sorry to tell you, David, but
those days are long gone.
PeterB
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-25, 4:28 pm |
|
Mark Probert wrote:
> vernon wrote:
>
>
>
> Vernon, you are so right. Whenever the cons of any alternative medicine
> are being discussed, there are those who just have to trash the person.
It's a false charge, Markey. If you give respect, you get it back.
> Furthermore, you have others who cannot think for themselves, so they
> marginalize anyone with whom they disagree.
If that's true, then those posts would simply be ignored. Yet, that
doesn't happen. Rather, your team spends hundreds of hours each year
trying to rip those people to shreds. While claiming such posters are
delusional, you give them almost 100% of your attention. The effort to
flush posters off the newsgroups with such ferocity has actually worked
against you. The pawns are off the board, Markey. It's just a matter
of time before your efforts here will be a fading memory.
> Finally, there are those people who think that trashing conventional
> medicine is somehow discussing alternative health.
Pointing out the failures in standard healthcare isn't "trashing"
anything. Your close minded approach to these subjects, however, is
quite telling.
PeterB
| |
| vernon 2006-07-25, 9:25 pm |
|
"David Wright" <wright@l1000.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:yLgxg.72588$Lm5.54290@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <44c4eccc$0$18784$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com>,
> vernon <there@there> wrote:
>
> Well, golly, vernon, you do a very poor job of protecting your own
> idiocy. Perhaps you should designate someone as a proxy to protect
> it for you.
>
Please inform us when and how you have FURTHERED the intent of the group.
You and your ilk (look up ilk before you go into a catatonic fit) are ONLY
here to troll and disagree with anything and without even knowledge of the
subject OR the alternative. You have NEVER given an alternative to the
alternative, just blindly protected the other blind followers of AMA, JAMA,
and all pharms.
You might even have your mommy read what I said so you see the implication
and context. Don't ask your MD.
| |
| David Wright 2006-07-26, 2:25 am |
| In article <1153847010.260158.162290@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
PeterB <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
>David Wright wrote:
>
>There might have been a time, in the infancy of the newsgroups, when
>such insults were amusing or clever. I'm sorry to tell you, David, but
>those days are long gone.
You're not at all sorry to tell me that, so I trust Jan will
immediately call you a liar.
And "amusing" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't value your
opinion in these matters. Or most others.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
| |
| JohnDoe 2006-07-26, 8:26 am |
| PeterB wrote:
> David Wright wrote:
>
>
>
> There might have been a time, in the infancy of the newsgroups, when
> such insults were amusing or clever. I'm sorry to tell you, David, but
> those days are long gone.
>
> PeterB
I see you're protecting Vernon again PeterB. Why? Do you think he's too
stupid to stand up for himself? Or am I correct and is Vernon one your
aliases? Wouldn't surprise me. After all, you accuse CathyB of lying
about who she is, claiming she is Rosalind Dalefield, and we have seen
how you actually do all the things that you accuse others of,
Mr.SupplementBlogger. Just out of curiosity, what do they pay you to
post here anyway?
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-26, 4:33 pm |
|
JohnDoe wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
>
>
> I see you're protecting Vernon again PeterB. Why? Do you think he's too
> stupid to stand up for himself? Or am I correct and is Vernon one your
> aliases? Wouldn't surprise me. After all, you accuse CathyB of lying
> about who she is, claiming she is Rosalind Dalefield, and we have seen
> how you actually do all the things that you accuse others of,
> Mr.SupplementBlogger. Just out of curiosity, what do they pay you to
> post here anyway?
Vernon is one of the more intelligent people posting here. I have to
agree with him that what David does amounts to trolling, but I think
he's being too generous. As for what I do, I give you the same level
of respect you give to me. A review of the history of my posts shows
I am here on my own behalf. The joy of seeing you work for your supper
on mha is all the reward I need. Cheerio.
PeterB
| |
| JohnDoe 2006-07-26, 4:33 pm |
| PeterB wrote:
> JohnDoe wrote:
>
>
>
> Vernon is one of the more intelligent people posting here.
Yup, Vernon and PeterB must be one and the same person. No doubt about it.
> I have to agree with him that what David does amounts to trolling, but I think
> he's being too generous.
> As for what I do, I give you the same level of respect you give to me.
So? I'm not losing a second of sleep over that.
> A review of the history of my posts shows I am here on my own behalf.
You recently happily admitted you were being paid for your posting here.
What happened? Did you get fired? Did they finally realize you're not
asset but a liability?
> The joy of seeing you work for your supper on mha is all the reward I need.
> Cheerio.
>
> PeterB
>
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-26, 4:33 pm |
|
JohnDoe wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
>
>
> Yup, Vernon and PeterB must be one and the same person. No doubt about it.
Why, because you're dopey and he's not?
>
> So? I'm not losing a second of sleep over that.
I guess you're proud of what you do here, then. Good for you.
>
> You recently happily admitted you were being paid for your posting here.
How about posting a link to prove that. Or just admit you're lying.
> What happened? Did you get fired? Did they finally realize you're not
> asset but a liability?
We each make our own way in life, johndopey. The next step is reaping
what you've sown, as measured by your motives.
[vbcol=seagreen]
| |
| Jan Drew 2006-07-26, 4:33 pm |
|
"JohnDopey wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
>
>
> I see you're protecting Vernon again PeterB.
Your lack of seeing is noted.
<snip nothing to do with the subject>
You just proved my statement to be true.
There are so few here on MHA who are interested in the purpose of MHA.
| |
| Jan Drew 2006-07-26, 4:33 pm |
|
"JohnDoe" <none@ofyourbusiness.com> wrote in message
news:44c77466$0$2027$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl...
> PeterB wrote:
>
>
> Yup, Vernon and PeterB must be one and the same person. No doubt about it.
Path:
g2news2.google.com!news3.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!post02.iad01!news.ThunderNews.com
!not-for-mail
From: "vernon" <there@there>
Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative,sci.med,misc.headlines,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
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<9fNxg.247$0e5.155@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<1153934224.263091.87990@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Medication errors harm 1.5 million Americans each year, reveals
IOM report
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:59:30 -0700
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Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Medication errors harm 1.5 million Americans each year, reveals
IOM report
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>
>
> So? I'm not losing a second of sleep over that.
>
>
> You recently happily admitted you were being paid for your posting here.
> What happened? Did you get fired? Did they finally realize you're not
> asset but a liability?
That is a blatant lie.
PerterB
May 23 2006
Actually, much cheaper than you, since I'm here for free.
JohnDoe
Now, you have just the other day happily admitted you
are a paid shill for the supplement industry.
PeterB
Johndopey is also a pharma blogger who lies incessantly. If only the
supplements industry *could* afford this level of PR, but they can't,
so people like me do this for free.
JD > However, that does not
> mean other people are as blatently dishonest and crooked as you are.
PB The word is blatantly. And I make no pretense as to why I am here.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc...2f4eede44e7c2a8
Ahah, caught you! 'Our legal team'.... See that everybody! I long had my
suspicions that PeterB was a member of a team that is here to push
supplements and assorted useless So Called Alternative Medicine, in
fact, that PeterB is doing exactly what he accuses 'Big Pharma' of
doing. Here, in his own words, by his own admission, is irrefutable
proof that in fact it is him who is doing the pushing for his corporate
masters. 'Warning: supplement industry is blogging these newsgroups' is
what should be posted. He even has a legal team.
Thank you PeterB for proving me right that you are a supplement pusher.
I noticed that already when you kept pushing supplements in stead of
healthy food and lifestyle. Anyone who wants people to swallow vitamin
pills in stead of (natural!) fruit and vegetables is rather suspect in
my eyes and you just proved me right.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc...b9ffd2b9225d345
> Ahah, caught you! 'Our legal team'.... See that everybody!
It wasn't a slip, dufus. "Our legal team" is just my way of
identifying with the interests of ANH and health freedom advocates. I
don't provide legal services to this effort.
> I long had my suspicions that PeterB was a member of a team that is here
> to push supplements and assorted useless So Called Alternative Medicine,
> in fact, that PeterB is doing exactly what he accuses 'Big Pharma' of
> doing.
If you had been a soldier for the Axis powers during WWII, and your
brother had been a soldier for the NATO alliance, would you have said
you were both doing exactly the same thing?
> Here, in his own words, by his own admission, is irrefutable proof that in
> fact it is him who is doing the pushing for his corporate masters.
Even if I were, it doesn't change anything I've said here. You either
agree with my views or you don't. It just so happens I'm not, but you
can believe as you wish.
> 'Warning: supplement industry is blogging these newsgroups' is what should
> be posted. He even has a legal team.
> Thank you PeterB for proving me right that you are a supplement pusher. I
> noticed that already when you kept pushing supplements in stead of healthy
> food and lifestyle.
I post far more about healthy lifestyle choices than use of
supplements. I defend free access to dietary supplements because I use
them myself. In fact, use of supplements can be thought of as a
lifestyle choice itself. I also "push" fluoride-free water, if you can
find it.
> Anyone who wants people to swallow vitamin pills in stead of (natural!)
> fruit and vegetables is rather suspect in my eyes and you just proved me
> right.
I take a whole-food vitamin supplement, in addition to eating a healthy
diet. You and your sponsors can keep the synthetic varieties for
yourselves.
Now...could we get back to the subject?
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
| |
| Mark Probert 2006-07-26, 9:28 pm |
| PeterB wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> It's a false charge, Markey. If you give respect, you get it back.
Horseshit. Your fabrication of pharma blogger prevents just that.
Further, there have been times that I decided to attempt to engage you
in a reasonable conversation, and you posted your bullshit about
handlers/paymasters, whatever the shit you call it. That is most
certainly not being respectful on your part.
>
> If that's true, then those posts would simply be ignored.
No, idiot, I was referring to you and your bullshit manner of dealing
with people who call your antics for what they are.
Yet, that
> doesn't happen. Rather, your team spends hundreds of hours each year
> trying to rip those people to shreds.
There ya go...marginalizing...
While claiming such posters are
> delusional, you give them almost 100% of your attention. The effort to
> flush posters off the newsgroups with such ferocity has actually worked
> against you.
You imagination is running wild. I want morons like you on the
newsgroups to use as examples of how moronic some altnuts are. You serve
that purpose so well.
The pawns are off the board, Markey. It's just a matter
> of time before your efforts here will be a fading memory.
What is fading is your logic. Your credibility faded a long time ago.
>
> Pointing out the failures in standard healthcare isn't "trashing"
> anything. Your close minded approach to these subjects, however, is
> quite telling.
I have no closed minded approach, idiot. I pointed out a truth that you
obviously needed to dismiss.
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
|
Mark Probert wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
>
> Horseshit. Your fabrication of pharma blogger prevents just that.
Bullshit. You're doing exactly what you've always done: attack those
who advocate natural medicine and defend the drug makers, without
regard for the facts or respect for the individual.
> Further, there have been times that I decided to attempt to engage you
> in a reasonable conversation, and you posted your bullshit about
> handlers/paymasters, whatever the shit you call it. That is most
> certainly not being respectful on your part.
I've seen your efforts. As time goes on, your motives are simply
becoming more transparent. Everything here can be discussed on purely
ideological grounds, if you so choose. Instead, you and your team
confine yourself to denials and personal attacks.
>
> No, idiot, I was referring to you and your bullshit manner of dealing
> with people who call your antics for what they are.
See what I mean?
> Yet, that
>
> There ya go...marginalizing...
You've done it to yourselves. The observation is just a description of
your behaviour.
> While claiming such posters are
>
> You imagination is running wild. I want morons like you on the
> newsgroups to use as examples of how moronic some altnuts are. You serve
> that purpose so well.
No one ever said you aren't charming.
> The pawns are off the board, Markey. It's just a matter
>
> What is fading is your logic. Your credibility faded a long time ago.
It's not about me, Markey. Or even you.
>
> I have no closed minded approach, idiot. I pointed out a truth that you
> obviously needed to dismiss.
I so appreciate your efforts, Markey. I suggest you get a black board
and write "I am not a pharma blogger" on it twenty thousand times.
I'll bet it improves your argument.
PeterB
| |
| Vernon 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
|
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Dxdxg.135209$dW3.93189@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:gbbxg.164$9r1.16@fe11.lga...
>
> Mark still hasn't learned to quote properly.
>
> vernon did not write that. I did. As Mark clearly read.
Not that it makes much difference BUT it is a direct quote from my post.
>
> So much for Mark's UDP.
>
> I knew it wouldn't last. Dishonest Mark Probert is exposed. AGAIN.
>
> Hmm. The liars of conventional and organized medicine do exactly that.
>
> Mark is a number one example.
>
> That wouldn't be trashing.
>
> Poor Mark.
>
> Alternative IS *alternative* from conventional.
>
> A fact dismissed by most of the *gang*.
>
>
>
| |
| Vernon 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
|
"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:gbbxg.164$9r1.16@fe11.lga...
> vernon wrote:
>
>
>
> Vernon, you are so right. Whenever the cons of any alternative medicine
> are being discussed, there are those who just have to trash the person.
>
> Furthermore, you have others who cannot think for themselves, so they
> marginalize anyone with whom they disagree.
>
> Finally, there are those people who think that trashing conventional
> medicine is somehow discussing alternative health.
There is MUCH that is rightly to be trashed in so called conventional
medicine as with ANY "conventional" area, even wisdom.
If there were no hard line conventionalists here, the discussions would have
much less to do with pharm, MD junk and would drift into successful applied
science.
BUT in ANY newsgroup, there are trolls.
Of course there would be about 2/3 less posts if al personal patter were
eliminated. back and forth, back and forth, back and forth about
practically EVERYTHING except health or medicine.
| |
| Mark Probert 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
| PeterB wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> Bullshit. You're doing exactly what you've always done: attack those
> who advocate natural medicine and defend the drug makers, without
> regard for the facts or respect for the individual.
Incorrect, One Neuron. I am atacking YOUR TACTICS, not what you say
about those subjects. If you had two neurons, you could dedicate one to
operating your bodily functions and the other to thinking. So far, your
body functions.
>
> I've seen your efforts. As time goes on, your motives are simply
> becoming more transparent. Everything here can be discussed on purely
> ideological grounds, if you so choose. Instead, you and your team
> confine yourself to denials and personal attacks.
Like I said, you do not discuss facts, and resort to the "team"
"paymaster" ad nauseum form of ad hominem and well poisoning. Thanks for
the proof.
>
> See what I mean?
I know what I meant, and I know it skipped right past your one neuron.
>
> You've done it to yourselves. The observation is just a description of
> your behaviour.
I do what I do, because of what YOU, and your ilk do.
>
> No one ever said you aren't charming.
Couldn't come up with a better response, eh? Keep posting. I'll keep
roasting.
>
> It's not about me, Markey. Or even you.
In MHA it is.
>
> I so appreciate your efforts, Markey. I suggest you get a black board
> and write "I am not a pharma blogger" on it twenty thousand times.
> I'll bet it improves your argument.
Petey, see above where I said that keeping you handy provides the best
evidence? I was shocked at your providing the proof so soon.
Thanks.
| |
| Mark Probert 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
| Vernon wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:gbbxg.164$9r1.16@fe11.lga...
>
> There is MUCH that is rightly to be trashed in so called conventional
> medicine as with ANY "conventional" area, even wisdom.
Even assuming that is so, how does that relate to the pros and cons of
alt med? It doesn't.
> If there were no hard line conventionalists here, the discussions would have
> much less to do with pharm, MD junk and would drift into successful applied
> science.
>
> BUT in ANY newsgroup, there are trolls.
>
> Of course there would be about 2/3 less posts if al personal patter were
> eliminated. back and forth, back and forth, back and forth about
> practically EVERYTHING except health or medicine.
2/3rds? Surely you jest. I thought it was more like 7/8ths!
| |
| Jan Drew 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
| ROTFLOL.....
Go...........Peter.......GO!!!
"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154006849.611400.261490@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> Bullshit. You're doing exactly what you've always done: attack those
> who advocate natural medicine and defend the drug makers, without
> regard for the facts or respect for the individual.
>
>
> I've seen your efforts. As time goes on, your motives are simply
> becoming more transparent. Everything here can be discussed on purely
> ideological grounds, if you so choose. Instead, you and your team
> confine yourself to denials and personal attacks.
>
>
> See what I mean?
>
>
> You've done it to yourselves. The observation is just a description of
> your behaviour.
>
>
> No one ever said you aren't charming.
>
>
> It's not about me, Markey. Or even you.
>
>
> I so appreciate your efforts, Markey. I suggest you get a black board
> and write "I am not a pharma blogger" on it twenty thousand times.
> I'll bet it improves your argument.
>
> PeterB
>
| |
|
|
| Vernon 2006-07-27, 4:28 pm |
|
"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:oi5yg.193$v75.119@fe10.lga...
> Vernon wrote:
>
> Even assuming that is so, how does that relate to the pros and cons of alt
> med? It doesn't.
Pluses and minuses of varying alternatives would be refeshing rather than
blatant attacks by pharm and MD defenders, and replies.
Even some honest comparisons between some conventional and alternative with
pluses and minuses of BOTH in the same post.
Statins was one of the blatant trolls.
Let's see. How many know when Nattokinase, Plavix, Cumodin, EDTA, garlic,
aspirin, omega-3 apply and why?
BTW, they ALL apply.
>
>
> 2/3rds? Surely you jest. I thought it was more like 7/8ths!
>
I didn't want to be accused of overstatement. I also didn't want to confuse
anyone with fractions other than 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4.
I overstepped by even using numbers.
| |
| Mark Probert 2006-07-27, 9:26 pm |
| Vernon wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Dxdxg.135209$dW3.93189@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Not that it makes much difference BUT it is a direct quote from my post.
Precisely, Vernon. I deleted everything that you did not write. Thank
you for your honesty.
| |
| Jan Drew 2006-07-27, 9:26 pm |
| Gosh. Bless. <g>
YOU do what YOU do........It is YOUR decision to POST what YOU do!
YOU and YOU alone are responsible for YOUR own words.
Take responsibility and STOP blaming others.
Back to the subject:
"1.5 million Americans a year affected by medication errors", Seattle
Times, July 21, 2006,
Link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...881_drugerro...
At least 1.5 million Americans are sickened, injured or killed each
year by avoidable errors in prescribing, dispensing and taking
medications, the influential Institute of Medicine concludes in a major
report released Thursday.
Mistakes in giving drugs are so prevalent in hospitals that, on
average, a patient will be subjected to a medication error each day he
or she fills a hospital bed, the report says.
Following up on its 2000 report on medical errors of all kinds, the
institute, a branch of the National Academy of Sciences, undertook the
most extensive study ever of medication errors at the request of
Congress when it passed the Medicare Modernization Act in 2003.
The report found errors to be not only harmful and widespread, but
costly as well. The extra medical cost of treating drug-related
injuries occurring only in hospitals was estimated to be at least $3.5
billion a year.
"The frequency of medication errors and preventable adverse drug events
is cause for serious concern," said Linda Cronenwett, dean of the
School of Nursing at the university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
and co-chair of the panel that researched the report. She and other
panel members said the problem requires immediate action.
"Everyone in the health-care system knows this is a major problem, but
there's been very little action and it's generally remained on the back
burner," panel member Charles Inlander said. "With this report, we hope
to give everyone involved good, hard information on how they can
prevent medication errors, and then create some pressure to have them
implement it."
The report endorsed much wider use of electronic prescribing, which it
says reduces errors, and encouraged technology improvements so the many
computer programs used by doctors, hospitals and drugstores are
compatible.
The errors the institute studied included doctors writing illegible
prescriptions, nurses giving one patient medication intended for
another, and a local pharmacist dispensing 100-milligram pills rather
than the prescribed 50 milligrams.
The report spotlighted the case of Betsy Lehman, a health reporter for
The Boston Globe. The 39-year-old wife and mother of two was being
treated for breast cancer in an experimental program at the Dana-Farber
Cancer Institute in 1994.
A medical fellow wrote a prescription for the cancer drugs citing the
total amount she was to receive over four days, the report said. She
died when nurses administered that total each day, overwhelming her
system. The hospital had no system in place to monitor dosages, and her
family argued that staff did not pay attention to her complaints about
the effects of the overdose, according to the report.
The report did not address whether some drugs should be pulled from the
market because of their intrinsic risks or whether the Food and Drug
Administration does an adequate job of ensuring that approved drugs are
safe for general use. That is the subject of another study expected to
be released soon by the institute.
With more than 4 billion prescriptions written each year in the United
States, even a very small error rate can translate into a large number
of problems.
Among the drugs most commonly associated with errors in hospitals are
insulin, morphine, potassium chloride and the anticoagulants heparin
and warfarin, which have a high risk of patient injury when dispensed
incorrectly.
The report cited a 2002 study from the United States Pharmacopeia that
found that these five drugs accounted for 28 percent of all errors that
resulted in extended hospitalizations. Insulin alone accounted for a
third of that total.
The panel cited a variety of causes for the problems.
One is unexpected drug interactions. With more than 15,000 prescription
drugs in use and 300,000 over-the-counter products, "it is virtually
impossible for a human to track all the interactions anymore," said Dr.
Wilson Pace of the university of Colorado.
Another is the similarity between drug names, which often results in
the wrong drug being given. For example, Fosamax, the osteoporosis
drug, could be mistaken for Flomax, given to improve urination in
patients with an enlarged prostate.
Other problems include patients not understanding how to take the
drugs.
The report said errors in hospitals and long-term-care facilities
generally are not reported to patients or family members unless they
result in injury or death. The panel said all health-care organizations
should report medication errors to patients whether they cause harm or
not.
Based on existing studies, the panel estimated that drug errors cause
at least 400,000 preventable injuries and deaths in hospitals each
year, more than 800,000 in nursing homes and facilities for the
elderly, and 530,000 among Medicare recipients treated in outpatient
clinics. The report said the actual numbers are likely much higher.
Inlander, president of the People's Medical Society, a Pennsylvania
consumer-health advocacy group, said that the institute panel sought
information about how many people may have died as a result of drug
errors, but that the estimates were so different - from 7,000 to
50,000 a year - that they were not included in the report.
"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:Qg5yg.192$v75.77@fe10.lga...
> PeterB wrote:
>
> Incorrect, One Neuron. I am atacking YOUR TACTICS, not what you say about
> those subjects. If you had two neurons, you could dedicate one to
> operating your bodily functions and the other to thinking. So far, your
> body functions.
>
>
> Like I said, you do not discuss facts, and resort to the "team"
> "paymaster" ad nauseum form of ad hominem and well poisoning. Thanks for
> the proof.
>
>
> I know what I meant, and I know it skipped right past your one neuron.
>
>
> I do what I do, because of what YOU, and your ilk do.
>
>
>
> Couldn't come up with a better response, eh? Keep posting. I'll keep
> roasting.
>
>
> In MHA it is.
>
>
> Petey, see above where I said that keeping you handy provides the best
> evidence? I was shocked at your providing the proof so soon.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
| |
| David Wright 2006-07-28, 2:25 am |
| In article <44c697f2$0$18752$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com>,
vernon <there@there> wrote:
>
>"David Wright" <wright@l1000.prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:yLgxg.72588$Lm5.54290@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>Please inform us when and how you have FURTHERED the intent of the group.
I've talked about the alternative modalities I use and the ones I've
tried that didn't work. You could look it up.
>You and your ilk (look up ilk before you go into a catatonic fit)
I'm quite aware of the meaning of the word. Why don't you try tell us
about it in German, big guy?
>are ONLY here to troll and disagree with anything and without even
>knowledge of the subject OR the alternative.
Given your total non-mastery of virtually every subject on which you
attempt to expound, that's very funny.
>You have NEVER given an alternative to the alternative,
An alternative to the alternative? Do you mean an alternative to the
conventional? Something else?
>just blindly protected the other blind followers of AMA, JAMA,
>and all pharms.
Glad you're not one to engage in idiotic generalizations, vernon. If
you were, you'd probably be making a lot of silly misstatements.
>You might even have your mommy read what I said so you see the
>implication and context. Don't ask your MD.
I almost never see him anyway. But the day I start accepting you as
any kind of authority will be the day the men in white come to take me
away to the looney bin.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
| |
|
|
| Vernon 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
|
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Bjiyg.1507$TV.407@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:mwbyg.266$v75.26@fe10.lga...
>
> The point IS. Mark KNEW *I* wrote it.
If you THINK you wrote it, see below.
>
> He blew his UDP! Which was FAKE. And filled with LIES.
>
You have a very strong imagination or a very poor capability in English or
you don't even know what you are saying or you haven't a clue what I said
and Mark quoted.
Oh, well, news groups.
| |
| Vernon 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
| I recently did a survey of a few surgeons and a few naturopaths.
They were requested to write prescriptions and instructions for predefined
products for predefined illnesses. Each thought it was refills, so no new
diagnoses was specifically required. The prescriptions were for their own
existing patients.
Both groups made a gross dosage error in about 1/3 of the prescriptions.
I.E. the mg, or number of times per day.
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4xbyg.182849$F_3.115898@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> Gosh. Bless. <g>
>
> YOU do what YOU do........It is YOUR decision to POST what YOU do!
>
> YOU and YOU alone are responsible for YOUR own words.
>
> Take responsibility and STOP blaming others.
>
> Back to the subject:
>
> "1.5 million Americans a year affected by medication errors", Seattle
> Times, July 21, 2006,
> Link:
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...881_drugerro...
>
> At least 1.5 million Americans are sickened, injured or killed each
> year by avoidable errors in prescribing, dispensing and taking
> medications, the influential Institute of Medicine concludes in a major
> report released Thursday.
>
>
> Mistakes in giving drugs are so prevalent in hospitals that, on
> average, a patient will be subjected to a medication error each day he
> or she fills a hospital bed, the report says.
>
>
> Following up on its 2000 report on medical errors of all kinds, the
> institute, a branch of the National Academy of Sciences, undertook the
> most extensive study ever of medication errors at the request of
> Congress when it passed the Medicare Modernization Act in 2003.
>
>
> The report found errors to be not only harmful and widespread, but
> costly as well. The extra medical cost of treating drug-related
> injuries occurring only in hospitals was estimated to be at least $3.5
> billion a year.
>
>
> "The frequency of medication errors and preventable adverse drug events
> is cause for serious concern," said Linda Cronenwett, dean of the
> School of Nursing at the university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
> and co-chair of the panel that researched the report. She and other
> panel members said the problem requires immediate action.
>
>
> "Everyone in the health-care system knows this is a major problem, but
> there's been very little action and it's generally remained on the back
> burner," panel member Charles Inlander said. "With this report, we hope
> to give everyone involved good, hard information on how they can
> prevent medication errors, and then create some pressure to have them
> implement it."
>
>
> The report endorsed much wider use of electronic prescribing, which it
> says reduces errors, and encouraged technology improvements so the many
> computer programs used by doctors, hospitals and drugstores are
> compatible.
>
>
> The errors the institute studied included doctors writing illegible
> prescriptions, nurses giving one patient medication intended for
> another, and a local pharmacist dispensing 100-milligram pills rather
> than the prescribed 50 milligrams.
>
>
> The report spotlighted the case of Betsy Lehman, a health reporter for
> The Boston Globe. The 39-year-old wife and mother of two was being
> treated for breast cancer in an experimental program at the Dana-Farber
> Cancer Institute in 1994.
>
>
> A medical fellow wrote a prescription for the cancer drugs citing the
> total amount she was to receive over four days, the report said. She
> died when nurses administered that total each day, overwhelming her
> system. The hospital had no system in place to monitor dosages, and her
> family argued that staff did not pay attention to her complaints about
> the effects of the overdose, according to the report.
>
>
> The report did not address whether some drugs should be pulled from the
> market because of their intrinsic risks or whether the Food and Drug
> Administration does an adequate job of ensuring that approved drugs are
> safe for general use. That is the subject of another study expected to
> be released soon by the institute.
>
>
> With more than 4 billion prescriptions written each year in the United
> States, even a very small error rate can translate into a large number
> of problems.
>
>
> Among the drugs most commonly associated with errors in hospitals are
> insulin, morphine, potassium chloride and the anticoagulants heparin
> and warfarin, which have a high risk of patient injury when dispensed
> incorrectly.
>
>
> The report cited a 2002 study from the United States Pharmacopeia that
> found that these five drugs accounted for 28 percent of all errors that
> resulted in extended hospitalizations. Insulin alone accounted for a
> third of that total.
>
>
> The panel cited a variety of causes for the problems.
>
>
> One is unexpected drug interactions. With more than 15,000 prescription
> drugs in use and 300,000 over-the-counter products, "it is virtually
> impossible for a human to track all the interactions anymore," said Dr.
> Wilson Pace of the university of Colorado.
>
>
> Another is the similarity between drug names, which often results in
> the wrong drug being given. For example, Fosamax, the osteoporosis
> drug, could be mistaken for Flomax, given to improve urination in
> patients with an enlarged prostate.
>
>
> Other problems include patients not understanding how to take the
> drugs.
>
>
> The report said errors in hospitals and long-term-care facilities
> generally are not reported to patients or family members unless they
> result in injury or death. The panel said all health-care organizations
> should report medication errors to patients whether they cause harm or
> not.
>
>
> Based on existing studies, the panel estimated that drug errors cause
> at least 400,000 preventable injuries and deaths in hospitals each
> year, more than 800,000 in nursing homes and facilities for the
> elderly, and 530,000 among Medicare recipients treated in outpatient
> clinics. The report said the actual numbers are likely much higher.
>
>
> Inlander, president of the People's Medical Society, a Pennsylvania
> consumer-health advocacy group, said that the institute panel sought
> information about how many people may have died as a result of drug
> errors, but that the estimates were so different - from 7,000 to
> 50,000 a year - that they were not included in the report.
>
>
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:Qg5yg.192$v75.77@fe10.lga...
>
>
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
|
Mark Probert wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
>
> Incorrect, One Neuron. I am atacking YOUR TACTICS, not what you say
> about those subjects. If you had two neurons, you could dedicate one to
> operating your bodily functions and the other to thinking. So far, your
> body functions.
Your comedy class not going so well?
>
> Like I said, you do not discuss facts, and resort to the "team"
> "paymaster" ad nauseum form of ad hominem and well poisoning. Thanks for
> the proof.
Markey, anyone who reads a history of my posts, and a history of yours,
will see that I am the one engaging in discussion.
>
> I know what I meant, and I know it skipped right past your one neuron.
It's up to you to prove me wrong. Vernon brought up Nattokinase the
other day. Why don't you talk about it? It's a great alternative to
Plavix. I was one of the first people to use it when it became
available (though it wasn't for me personally.) It did wonders for the
person I gave it to. Try bringing up something related to mha for a
change.
>
> I do what I do, because of what YOU, and your ilk do.
Don't blame me for your shortcomings, Markey. Instead of being a
reactor, be a catalyst.
>
> Couldn't come up with a better response, eh? Keep posting. I'll keep
> roasting.
Of course you will, Markey. What choice do you have?
>
> In MHA it is.
For you, yes. For me, it's about something you won't know about until
a bit later.
>
> Petey, see above where I said that keeping you handy provides the best
> evidence? I was shocked at your providing the proof so soon.
Don't be shocked, Markey. Things are not that complicated.
> Thanks.
You're welcome.
| |
| Mark Probert 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
| Vernon wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Bjiyg.1507$TV.407@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> If you THINK you wrote it, see below.
>
>
>
>
> You have a very strong imagination or a very poor capability in English or
> you don't even know what you are saying or you haven't a clue what I said
> and Mark quoted.
Again, you are correct. I only quoted you, a living person.
| |
| Vernon 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
|
"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154098315.089948.289030@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> Your comedy class not going so well?
>
>
> Markey, anyone who reads a history of my posts, and a history of yours,
> will see that I am the one engaging in discussion.
>
>
> It's up to you to prove me wrong. Vernon brought up Nattokinase the
> other day. Why don't you talk about it? It's a great alternative to
> Plavix. I was one of the first people to use it when it became
> available (though it wasn't for me personally.) It did wonders for the
> person I gave it to. Try bringing up something related to mha for a
> change.
>
An interesting side note:
Coumodin is often prescribed to dissolve blood clots. The manufacturers
"specifically" state that it will not dissolve existing clots or even reduce
them, just aid in prevention.
Plavix makes the blood "slipperier", thus reducing the chances of
accumulation in one spot. This can happen after the insertion of a stent.
It leaves, at least temporarily a variation in the wall.
Nattokinase especially in combination with Padma Basic does ALL three and
more successfully. Thin, dissolve, slippery.
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
|
Vernon wrote:
> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154098315.089948.289030@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> An interesting side note:
>
> Coumodin is often prescribed to dissolve blood clots. The manufacturers
> "specifically" state that it will not dissolve existing clots or even reduce
> them, just aid in prevention.
> Plavix makes the blood "slipperier", thus reducing the chances of
> accumulation in one spot. This can happen after the insertion of a stent.
> It leaves, at least temporarily a variation in the wall.
> Nattokinase especially in combination with Padma Basic does ALL three and
> more successfully. Thin, dissolve, slippery.
It's becoming clear to me you know your stuff. My uncle died of
internal bleeding (a coumadin patient), and I felt bad knowing he could
probably have lived much longer. Why didn't I tell him? Well, we
weren't close, and I didn't know his drug regimen until later. Still,
he was my mom's only brother, and now I'm pissed.
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| Vernon 2006-07-28, 4:27 pm |
|
"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154112463.991489.104350@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Vernon wrote:
>
> It's becoming clear to me you know your stuff. My uncle died of
> internal bleeding (a coumadin patient), and I felt bad knowing he could
> probably have lived much longer. Why didn't I tell him? Well, we
> weren't close, and I didn't know his drug regimen until later. Still,
> he was my mom's only brother, and now I'm pissed.
>
Friends and relatives won't normally listen.
I know many people who have been on coumadin for YEARS. The most I can say
to them is that I would never take it for more than a week to a month and
have a test every week. Coumadin is strictly a vitamin K suppressor
(Manufacturer's statement). SO, someone who normally has a particular green
vegetable intake (or high at the time of testing) changes for three or four
days to nearly no greens, can bleed to death. (Coumadin has a 3 - 5 day
half life). Of course the unwary can take aspirin and go over the edge.
"But I didn't take aspirin. I took Excedrin" (Aspirin with two other
ingredients including caffeine which aggravates the aspirin effects)
Don't blame yourself. The doctor wouldn't prescribe something wrong would
he?
| |
| David Wright 2006-07-29, 9:25 pm |
| In article <44ca19ef$0$18706$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com>,
Vernon <there@atthere> wrote:
>I recently did a survey of a few surgeons and a few naturopaths.
>
>They were requested to write prescriptions and instructions for predefined
>products for predefined illnesses. Each thought it was refills, so no new
>diagnoses was specifically required. The prescriptions were for their own
>existing patients.
>
>Both groups made a gross dosage error in about 1/3 of the prescriptions.
>I.E. the mg, or number of times per day.
Now *this* is interesting. But not enough detail.
So, I'll ask: what diseases? What drugs? And how did things go
wrong? A summary would be quite valuable here.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
| |
| PeterB 2006-07-31, 8:28 am |
|
Vernon wrote:
> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154112463.991489.104350@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Friends and relatives won't normally listen.
True, though I have one sibling that does.
> I know many people who have been on coumadin for YEARS. The most I can say
> to them is that I would never take it for more than a week to a month and
> have a test every week. Coumadin is strictly a vitamin K suppressor
> (Manufacturer's statement). SO, someone who normally has a particular green
> vegetable intake (or high at the time of testing) changes for three or four
> days to nearly no greens, can bleed to death. (Coumadin has a 3 - 5 day
> half life). Of course the unwary can take aspirin and go over the edge.
> "But I didn't take aspirin. I took Excedrin" (Aspirin with two other
> ingredients including caffeine which aggravates the aspirin effects)
>
> Don't blame yourself. The doctor wouldn't prescribe something wrong would
> he?
Thanks. I'm sure he wouldn't think so.
PeterB
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