Politics and Medicine - Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows

Author

Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

http://www.newstarget.com/z019432.html
NewsTarget.com printable article
Originally published June 20 2006
Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows
According to the results of a new study from the university of South
Australia, fish oil is more effective at treating children with attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) than stimulant drugs, such as commonly
prescribed Ritalin.
The 15-week study, which included 132 children ages 7 to 12, split the
children into three groups. The first group received a daily dose of omega-3
fish oil; the second group received the fish oil plus a multi-vitamin and
mineral pill; and the third group received a placebo.

By the end of the study, the children in the first and second groups showed
major improvement in the reduction of hyperactivity symptoms and also
displayed increased levels of concentration, compared to the placebo group.

Natalie Sinn, the study's leader, said the results showed that omega-3 fish
oils boosted the concentration and brainpower in kids displaying ADHD
symptoms, but without the side effects of Ritalin, which can include
hallucinations, heart problems and aggressive behavior.

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> http://www.newstarget.com/z019432.html
> NewsTarget.com printable article
> Originally published June 20 2006
> Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows
> According to the results of a new study from the university of South
> Australia, fish oil is more effective at treating children with attention
> deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) than stimulant drugs, such as commonly
> prescribed Ritalin.
> The 15-week study, which included 132 children ages 7 to 12, split the
> children into three groups. The first group received a daily dose of omega-3
> fish oil; the second group received the fish oil plus a multi-vitamin and
> mineral pill; and the third group received a placebo.
>
> By the end of the study, the children in the first and second groups showed
> major improvement in the reduction of hyperactivity symptoms and also
> displayed increased levels of concentration, compared to the placebo group.
>
> Natalie Sinn, the study's leader, said the results showed that omega-3 fish
> oils boosted the concentration and brainpower in kids displaying ADHD
> symptoms, but without the side effects of Ritalin, which can include
> hallucinations, heart problems and aggressive behavior.
Mega doses of fish oil for an extended period had zero effect on me.

Ginko leaf, however seems to have a real, and moderately potetent
psychoactive effect.
It's a real drug. ... only it isn't prescribed and it doesn't have the
'modern medicine' label attached to it.

Ginko gives me weird memory connections. they seem like garbage
associations to me. If I consumed enough, I wouldn't be surprised to
discover that I was hallucinating.

Anyone who imagines that natural or herbal remedies are signifcantly
different from 'big business' pharmaceuticals because they are quote
"Natural ..." is harboring a foolish and dangerous CONCEPTION.

Many oif the controlled substances in use today are natural

opium
coccaine
barbituates .. mandrax (pheynolbarbitol ) mandrax(ke) root (?)

etc , etc.

Who are you fooling, eh?

Cordially,

RL

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> http://www.newstarget.com/z019432.html
> NewsTarget.com printable article
> Originally published June 20 2006
> Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows
> According to the results of a new study from the university of South
> Australia, fish oil is more effective at treating children with attention
> deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) than stimulant drugs, such as commonly
> prescribed Ritalin.
> The 15-week study, which included 132 children ages 7 to 12, split the
> children into three groups. The first group received a daily dose of omega-3
> fish oil; the second group received the fish oil plus a multi-vitamin and
> mineral pill; and the third group received a placebo.

This paragraph highlights a problem with the headline of the article.
The headline reads "Fish oils treat ADHD *better than* prescription
drugs". When comparing items (the use of *better than*), one should
actually use the items being compared.

Since this study clearly did not compare fish oil to prescription drugs
there is absolutely no way to claim that they are more effective than
prescription drugs.

> By the end of the study, the children in the first and second groups showed
> major improvement in the reduction of hyperactivity symptoms and also
> displayed increased levels of concentration, compared to the placebo group.
>
> Natalie Sinn, the study's leader, said the results showed that omega-3 fish
> oils boosted the concentration and brainpower in kids displaying ADHD
> symptoms, but without the side effects of Ritalin, which can include
> hallucinations, heart problems and aggressive behavior.

However, she did not mention that the kids had an overwhelming urge to
swim upstream.

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> Mega doses of fish oil for an extended period had zero effect on me.
>
> Ginko leaf, however seems to have a real, and moderately potetent
> psychoactive effect.
> It's a real drug. ... only it isn't prescribed and it doesn't have the
> 'modern medicine' label attached to it.
>
> Ginko gives me weird memory connections. they seem like garbage
> associations to me. If I consumed enough, I wouldn't be surprised to
> discover that I was hallucinating.
>
> Anyone who imagines that natural or herbal remedies are signifcantly
> different from 'big business' pharmaceuticals because they are quote
> "Natural ..." is harboring a foolish and dangerous CONCEPTION.
>
> Many oif the controlled substances in use today are natural
>
> opium
> coccaine
> barbituates .. mandrax (pheynolbarbitol ) mandrax(ke) root (?)
>
> etc , etc.
>
> Who are you fooling, eh?

Good points. They are all chemicals.

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> As for natural products not being carcinogenic?
>
> ROTFLMAO ...
>
> For example ...
>
> Look into just how carcinogenic 'capsicum' ( The active ingredient in
> hot peppers ) is ....
>
> ( I only discovered this little tidbit of knowledge in the past few
> years! )
>
> Think about it the next time you eat suicide 'hot' chicken wings ...

Makes my fingernails sweat.

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Mark Probert wrote:
> Raving Loonie wrote:
>
> Makes my fingernails sweat.
It's no joke!

IIRC, the rate of stomach cancer is 5 to 10 times ( or more ) higher
in countries such as Mexico which consume a lot of hot pepper.

I never knew this, until a few years ago !!!!

tadamsmar@yahoo.com

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> As for natural products not being carcinogenic?
>
> ROTFLMAO ...
>
> For example ...
>
> Look into just how carcinogenic 'capsicum' ( The active ingredient in
> hot peppers ) is ....

Where did you get that. I don't see anything that says capsicum is
carcinogenic when ingested. There is something about pepper spray out
there on the Web.

>
> ( I only discovered this little tidbit of knowledge in the past few
> years! )
>
> Think about it the next time you eat suicide 'hot' chicken wings ...
>
>
> Cordially,
>
> RL

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
> Raving Loonie wrote:
>
> Where did you get that. I don't see anything that says capsicum is
> carcinogenic when ingested. There is something about pepper spray out
> there on the Web.
I'm not certain ...

I recall hearing it on Canadian NPR (CBC) ... coming from an
epidemiologist in response to the "harmless" usage of pepper spray.
(???) I don't fully trust my memory as to the occupation of the person
who was claiming such)

Assuming it's true ( and I suspect it is so ...) it's a real eye
opener, eh?

Perhaps others could shed more light on this rumor?

Cordially,

RL

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
> Raving Loonie wrote:
>
> Where did you get that. I don't see anything that says capsicum is
> carcinogenic when ingested. There is something about pepper spray out
> there on the Web.
BTW, I also recall hearing at the same time (?) or otherwise ... that
the rate of stomach cancer was greately elevated in places such as
Newfoundland ... which has a long tradition of consuming large amounts
of nitrite/nitrate cured food ...

You would believe that statistic wouldn't you?

The point is that you can still go to your store and buy
nitrite/nitrate laced corned beef. Right?

Is it banned? No.

Are the statistics derived from the consequences of consuming "much"
of it visibly reported?

Doesn't seem to be so.

Everone (epidemiologists) are well aware of it, however.

We choose what we eat. ... Even if it is clearly known to be
consequentially carcinogenic.

Unpasteurized milk and unpasteurized cheese is another example, BTW ...

It tastes wonderful! .. but that flavor comes with a cost/risk.

Cordially,

RL

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

"Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150920268.078387.316660@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Jan Drew wrote:
> Mega doses of fish oil for an extended period had zero effect on me.
>
> Ginko leaf, however seems to have a real, and moderately potetent
> psychoactive effect.
> It's a real drug. ... only it isn't prescribed and it doesn't have the
> 'modern medicine' label attached to it.
>
> Ginko gives me weird memory connections. they seem like garbage
> associations to me. If I consumed enough, I wouldn't be surprised to
> discover that I was hallucinating.
>
> Anyone who imagines that natural or herbal remedies are signifcantly
> different from 'big business' pharmaceuticals because they are quote
> "Natural ..." is harboring a foolish and dangerous CONCEPTION.
>
> Many oif the controlled substances in use today are natural
>
> opium
> coccaine
> barbituates .. mandrax (pheynolbarbitol ) mandrax(ke) root (?)
>
> etc , etc.
>
> Who are you fooling, eh?
>
> Cordially,
>
> RL

I was not. What made you think....I was?

I merely posted a study which proves it does help.

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

"Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150920577.570363.130840@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Jan Drew wrote:
> As for natural products not being carcinogenic?
>
> ROTFLMAO ...
>
> For example ...
>
> Look into just how carcinogenic 'capsicum' ( The active ingredient in
> hot peppers ) is ....
>
> ( I only discovered this little tidbit of knowledge in the past few
> years! )
>
> Think about it the next time you eat suicide 'hot' chicken wings ...
>
>
> Cordially,
>
> RL

Loonie, you are raving. You have strayed from the subject.

Sumbuny

2006-06-21, 4:28 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:HRhmg.76$fP2.27@fe11.lga...
>
> However, she did not mention that the kids had an overwhelming urge to
> swim upstream.
>

ROTFLMHO!!!!

Imagine kids going against the flow....whose kids would *that* be?????

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:HRhmg.76$fP2.27@fe11.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> This paragraph highlights a problem with the headline of the article. The
> headline reads "Fish oils treat ADHD *better than* prescription drugs".
> When comparing items (the use of *better than*), one should actually use
> the items being compared.

Have you?
>
> Since this study clearly did not compare fish oil to prescription drugs
> there is absolutely no way to claim that they are more effective than
> prescription drugs.

Do write them and complain. I'll bet they will refer to your x-pert
knowledge
of how studies should be done.

Your study is published where??
>
>
> However, she did not mention that the kids had an overwhelming urge to
> swim upstream.

Because she isn't a liar. She did mention (just a few) of the side effects
of Ritalin.
>

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150920268.078387.316660@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

> I was not. What made you think....I was?
>
> I merely posted a study which proves it does help.
Maybe you have called it directly as you see it.

And maybe that really is the point, here.
(thus I truncate to emphasize merely that ... )

I suppose that it's just human nature. We are all like this, regardless
of whether we, at one time or another "know" not to be so. Mark isn't
any different on this than yourself.

What do I see?

Tunneling into the focus of awareness is akin to becoming fascinated
with the trees.

A person is apt to forget about the forest they are exploring.

My comments were intended to address the forest.

HTH

Cordially,

RL

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
> It's no joke!
>
> IIRC, the rate of stomach cancer is 5 to 10 times ( or more ) higher
> in countries such as Mexico which consume a lot of hot pepper.
>
> I never knew this, until a few years ago !!!!

Got a link. I do not use it, or consume any foods made with it since I
do not like how I feel after eating it, so it is not my concern.
However, others may benefit.

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150920577.570363.130840@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Loonie, you are raving. You have strayed from the subject.
>
>

RL posts from asad where straying from the subject is the norm.

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Sumbuny wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:HRhmg.76$fP2.27@fe11.lga...
>
> ROTFLMHO!!!!
>
> Imagine kids going against the flow....whose kids would *that* be?????
>

Good point. I wonder if that is an effect of the fish oils or is it
mediated by the disorder.

More research.

Anyone got a good stream and want a few hundred AD/HDers for the summer?

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Please link back to the original.

http://www.newstarget.com/019432.html

See the warnings there.

>
> "Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150920268.078387.316660@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> I was not. What made you think....I was?
>
> I merely posted a study which proves it does help.
>
>
>

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Sad you thought Mark's remark was soooo funny.

"Sumbuny" <Sumbuny@THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
news:TNimg.142377$k%3.134616@dukeread12...
>
>
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:HRhmg.76$fP2.27@fe11.lga...
>
> ROTFLMHO!!!!
>
> Imagine kids going against the flow....whose kids would *that* be?????
>
> --
> Buny
>
> " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
> normal."
> ~ Albert Camus
>
>

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Mark Probert wrote:
> Raving Loonie wrote:
>
> Got a link. I do not use it, or consume any foods made with it since I
> do not like how I feel after eating it, so it is not my concern.
> However, others may benefit.

Actually, the American Cancer Society has info about its use for pain
management and says that there are some proponents who claim it may
help with cancer. Nothing mentioned about it causing cancer. I'd
think that if there were evidence that it's a carcinogen, the ACA would
definitely have that posted. Here's the link to their page on
capsicum:

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/c...sp?sitearea=ETO

Kitten

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> Sad you thought Mark's remark was soooo funny.

Sad that you have no sense of humor.

>
> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny@THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
> news:TNimg.142377$k%3.134616@dukeread12...
>
>

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:HRhmg.76$fP2.27@fe11.lga...
>
> Have you?

The person who wrote the headline implied that the study compared fish
oils and prescription medications, when the actual article clearly said
that this was not done.

>
> Do write them and complain. I'll bet they will refer to your x-pert
> knowledge of how studies should be done.

I would refer them to Grammar For Dummies, to show them the illogic of
the headline considering the contents of the article.

> Your study is published where??

Up thread. Look it up. It concerns the use of the comparative
conjunction "better than".

>
> Because she isn't a liar. She did mention (just a few) of the side effects
> of Ritalin.

Actually, because you are devoid of a sense of humor. Sad that.

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:

I don't see the comparison to meds prescribed for ADHD. Was there
another group that was given prescription meds? One cannot weigh the
efficacy of one means over another without having data by which to
compare, in a controlled setting.

[vbcol=seagreen]
> Mega doses of fish oil for an extended period had zero effect on me.
>

I bet your hair and skin were better, though. Fish oil is good for
you, but like with any other nutrient, it's best when taken as nature
intended. There are components in any food that work together to
maximize absorption of those components. <shrug>

> Ginko leaf, however seems to have a real, and moderately potetent
> psychoactive effect.
> It's a real drug. ... only it isn't prescribed and it doesn't have the
> 'modern medicine' label attached to it.

True about Gingko being a "real drug." It's frustrating that people
think herbals aren't "real" medicine. Be careful with Gingko if you
have any clotting issues. I don't recall atm and am too sleepy to look
it up, but it's either a vassal dilator or an anticoagulant. That's
why it works so well to improve focus.

I loved the effects of drinking a cup of Gingko tea in the morning.
But I have clotting issues and cerebral bleeds run in my family, so I
had to give it up. If you don't have those issues to worry about,
ginkgo tea is a wonderful thing.

>
> Ginko gives me weird memory connections. they seem like garbage
> associations to me. If I consumed enough, I wouldn't be surprised to
> discover that I was hallucinating.

I didn't have any problems like that with ginkgo. I *was* able to go
through 600+ emails a day, though. LOL... made my abuse investigation
job go *much* more smoothly than did a nutty bar for breakfast with a
jumbo cup of mocha made with programmer coffee plus 2 pkts of hot cocoa
mix. ;-)

>
> Anyone who imagines that natural or herbal remedies are signifcantly
> different from 'big business' pharmaceuticals because they are quote
> "Natural ..." is harboring a foolish and dangerous CONCEPTION.

Agreed. No matter the method of choice in dealing with health issues,
one must always educate oneself on all the possible contra-indications.

>
> Many oif the controlled substances in use today are natural
>
> opium
> coccaine
> barbituates .. mandrax (pheynolbarbitol ) mandrax(ke) root (?)
>
> etc , etc.
>
> Who are you fooling, eh?
>

Gracias, RL, for pointing that out. I think it's been a while since
that was brought up.

OK, gotta go try to get a couple of new babies used to the idea of a
bottle.

Kitten

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
>
> Actually, the American Cancer Society has info about its use for pain
> management and says that there are some proponents who claim it may
> help with cancer. Nothing mentioned about it causing cancer. I'd
> think that if there were evidence that it's a carcinogen, the ACA would
> definitely have that posted. Here's the link to their page on
> capsicum:
>
> http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/c...sp?sitearea=ETO
O.K.

So the plot thickens.

I would be delighted to discover that I have been misinformed. I love
the stuff.

But ....

My gut feeling is that what I am recalling is reasonable.

Does anyone else know of this?

Cordially,

RL

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
>
> Actually, the American Cancer Society has info about its use for pain
> management and says that there are some proponents who claim it may
> help with cancer. Nothing mentioned about it causing cancer. I'd
> think that if there were evidence that it's a carcinogen, the ACA would
> definitely have that posted. Here's the link to their page on
> capsicum:
>
> http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/c...sp?sitearea=ETO

Regardless, it still makes me sweat like back in the jungle. I am too
old for that.

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
<snipped>
> We choose what we eat. ... Even if it is clearly known to be
> consequentially carcinogenic.
>
> Unpasteurized milk and unpasteurized cheese is another example, BTW ...
>
> It tastes wonderful! .. but that flavor comes with a cost/risk.
>

As you say, it's a matter of weighing the cost:benefit ratio. Since
you brought up milk and dairy products, we can go with that. There are
certain risk factors and health benefits to drinking raw milk. There
are certain other risk factors to drinking pasteurized milk. In making
the decision which to drink, a wise consumer looks at the risks and
benefits of each, then makes a choice.

Kitten

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Mark Probert wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
<snipped>
>
> RL posts from asad where straying from the subject is the norm.

Yes, it is to be expected. It's, after all, a result of...

Oh, look! A moth!

Kitten

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150927131.863016.312340@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Maybe you have called it directly as you see it.

No. I did not call it. The study proved it.
>
> And maybe that really is the point, here.
> (thus I truncate to emphasize merely that ... )
>
> I suppose that it's just human nature. We are all like this, regardless
> of whether we, at one time or another "know" not to be so. Mark isn't
> any different on this than yourself.
>
> What do I see?
>
> Tunneling into the focus of awareness is akin to becoming fascinated
> with the trees.
>
> A person is apt to forget about the forest they are exploring.
>
> My comments were intended to address the forest.
>
> HTH
>
> Cordially,
>
> RL
>

xtremity_1@hotmail.com

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
"Look into just how carcinogenic 'capsicum' ( The active ingredient
in
> hot peppers ) is ...."
>
Taking you up on your suggestion I did just that and you may be
interested to find that contrary to your assertion that "IIRC, the rate
of stomach cancer is 5 to 10 times ( or more ) higher in countries such
as Mexico which consume a lot of hot pepper", there is actually a LOWER
incidence of stomach cancers in Latin American countries.

This is the quote:
"A full review of capsaicin=A1=AFs carcinogenic and anticarcinogenic
potential (Suhr and Lee, 1996) provided theoretical evidence for both
effects from capsaicin. Ernst and Barnes (1998) refer to this study
with the comment that "Taken orally orally in regular high doses it may
act as a carcinogen and could promote gastric cancer, but in low doses
it seems to have anticarcinogenic activity." Duke (1985) points out
that the low incidence of gastric cancers in Latin America suggests
that hot pepper, with its many constituents, may be anticarcinogenic."

Taken from:
<a href=3Dhttp://www.intraproducts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3D125><What
is Capsicum(Cayenne,Red Pepper)></a>

Before you go making unsubstantiated claims and sweeping statements on
internet forums, may I humbly suggest that you get your facts straight
first and at least make some effort to back your arguements up.

ps. sorry if the link doesn't work - i suck at html. Feel free to give
me some pointers!

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" wrote:

Gracias, RL, for pointing that out. I think it's been a while since
> that was brought up.

I see you once again are engaging in lies.

>
> Raving Loonie wrote:
>
>
> I don't see the comparison to meds prescribed for ADHD. Was there
> another group that was given prescription meds? One cannot weigh the
> efficacy of one means over another without having data by which to
> compare, in a controlled setting.
>
>
>
>
> I bet your hair and skin were better, though. Fish oil is good for
> you, but like with any other nutrient, it's best when taken as nature
> intended. There are components in any food that work together to
> maximize absorption of those components. <shrug>
>
>
>
>
> True about Gingko being a "real drug." It's frustrating that people
> think herbals aren't "real" medicine. Be careful with Gingko if you
> have any clotting issues. I don't recall atm and am too sleepy to look
> it up, but it's either a vassal dilator or an anticoagulant. That's
> why it works so well to improve focus.
>
> I loved the effects of drinking a cup of Gingko tea in the morning.
> But I have clotting issues and cerebral bleeds run in my family, so I
> had to give it up. If you don't have those issues to worry about,
> ginkgo tea is a wonderful thing.
>
>
>
> I didn't have any problems like that with ginkgo. I *was* able to go
> through 600+ emails a day, though. LOL... made my abuse investigation
> job go *much* more smoothly than did a nutty bar for breakfast with a
> jumbo cup of mocha made with programmer coffee plus 2 pkts of hot cocoa
> mix. ;-)
>
>
>
> Agreed. No matter the method of choice in dealing with health issues,
> one must always educate oneself on all the possible contra-indications.
>
>
>
> Gracias, RL, for pointing that out. I think it's been a while since
> that was brought up.
>
> OK, gotta go try to get a couple of new babies used to the idea of a
> bottle.
>
> Kitten
>

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:injmg.36$uZ5.34@fe12.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> RL posts from asad where straying from the subject is the norm.

What's your excuse??

Jan Drew

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:jIjmg.46$uZ5.25@fe12.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Sad that you have no sense of humor.

That is another one of your lies.

What happened to your LL&L??

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
<snipped>
a=3DETO[vbcol=seagreen]
> O.K.
>
> So the plot thickens.
>
> I would be delighted to discover that I have been misinformed. I love
> the stuff.
>
> But ....
>
> My gut feeling is that what I am recalling is reasonable.
>
> Does anyone else know of this?
>

OK, found a bit more info.

"Carcinogenicity/Mutagenicity
A full review of capsaicin=A1=AFs carcinogenic and anticarcinogenic
potential (Suhr and Lee, 1996) provided theoretical evidence for both
effects from capsaicin. Ernst and Barnes (1998) refer to this study
with the comment that "Taken orally orally in regular high doses it may
act as a carcinogen and could promote gastric cancer, but in low doses
it seems to have anticarcinogenic activity." Duke (1985) points out
that the low incidence of gastric cancers in Latin America suggests
that hot pepper, with its many constituents, may be anticarcinogenic. "

The article goes on, giving both benefits and risks:

http://www.mdidea.com/products/new/new005.html

Kitten

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

xtremity_1@hotmail.com wrote:
> Raving Loonie wrote:
> "Look into just how carcinogenic 'capsicum' ( The active ingredient
> in
> Taking you up on your suggestion I did just that and you may be
> interested to find that contrary to your assertion that "IIRC, the rate
> of stomach cancer is 5 to 10 times ( or more ) higher in countries such
> as Mexico which consume a lot of hot pepper", there is actually a LOWER
> incidence of stomach cancers in Latin American countries.
>
> This is the quote:
> "A full review of capsaicin=A1=AFs carcinogenic and anticarcinogenic
> potential (Suhr and Lee, 1996) provided theoretical evidence for both
> effects from capsaicin. Ernst and Barnes (1998) refer to this study
> with the comment that "Taken orally orally in regular high doses it may
> act as a carcinogen and could promote gastric cancer, but in low doses
> it seems to have anticarcinogenic activity." Duke (1985) points out
> that the low incidence of gastric cancers in Latin America suggests
> that hot pepper, with its many constituents, may be anticarcinogenic."
>
> Taken from:
> <a href=3Dhttp://www.intraproducts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3D125><Wh=
at
> is Capsicum(Cayenne,Red Pepper)></a>
>
> Before you go making unsubstantiated claims and sweeping statements on
> internet forums, may I humbly suggest that you get your facts straight
> first and at least make some effort to back your arguements up.
>
> ps. sorry if the link doesn't work - i suck at html. Feel free to give
> me some pointers!
---------------------------------------

here is something else. ...

Frankly, there is something rather disconcerting in all of this.

---------------------

this is quoted from a html version of

Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Food on Capsaicin
(adopted on 26 February 2002)

Introduction
Previous evaluations
The Committee of Experts on Flavouring Substances of the Council of
Europe evaluated the
capsaicinoids in Capsicum preparations used as flavourings. A TDI of
0-0.2 mg/kg bw,
expressed as total capsaicinoids, was numerically derived from the
results of a population
based case-control study conducted in Mexico-City, where chilli pepper
consumers were at
high risk for gastric cancer compared with non-consumers. The daily
intake of the chilli
pepper consumers was estimated to be 4 mg capsaicinoids/kg bw and a
safety factor of 20 was
applied. In addition, general limits of 5 ppm for foods and beverages,
10 ppm for hot foods
and beverages, 20 ppm for hot ketchup and 50 ppm for tabasco, harissa,
hot pimento oils and
similar preparations expressed as total capsaicinoids were suggested
(Council of Europe,
2001).

http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/scf/out120_en.pdf ( postscript
version)

also ...

Chronic toxicity/carcinogenicity
15 out of 26 rats fed for seven months with 10% chillies in a
semisynthetic diet containing
ardein, a purified protein of the ground nut, developed neoplastic
changes in the liver
(hepatomas, multiple cystic cholangiomas, solid adenomas or
adenocarcinomas of the bile
duct). Although no tumour developed in rats fed the basic diet without
chillies, the authors
stress, that it cannot be said whether chillies have a specific
carcinogenic effect or whether a
deficiency in the diet aggravated by a non-specific irritant caused the
tumours (Hoch-Ligeti,
1951).

Raving Loonie

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> Raving Loonie wrote:
> <snipped>
ld[vbcol=seagreen]
rea=3DETO[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> OK, found a bit more info.
>
> "Carcinogenicity/Mutagenicity
> A full review of capsaicin=A1=AFs carcinogenic and anticarcinogenic
> potential (Suhr and Lee, 1996) provided theoretical evidence for both
> effects from capsaicin. Ernst and Barnes (1998) refer to this study
> with the comment that "Taken orally orally in regular high doses it may
> act as a carcinogen and could promote gastric cancer, but in low doses
> it seems to have anticarcinogenic activity." Duke (1985) points out
> that the low incidence of gastric cancers in Latin America suggests
> that hot pepper, with its many constituents, may be anticarcinogenic. "
>
> The article goes on, giving both benefits and risks:
>
> http://www.mdidea.com/products/new/new005.html
This *almost* sounds like that famous effect wherein, a little bit of
poison may cure by stimulating an immune response ... whreas more
poison will kill.

It is supposed to be a very, very, very controversial topic!

Frankly, capsicum seems to be a really good example of exactly this
effect!

??????????????

Cordially,

RL

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:injmg.36$uZ5.34@fe12.lga...
>
> What's your excuse??

I do not need a steeken excuse.

Mark Probert

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:jIjmg.46$uZ5.25@fe12.lga...
>
> That is another one of your lies.

I see no evidence of you having one. The fact that you can call my
statement a lie in this context provides ample proof of my statement.

> What happened to your LL&L??

I did not even think of calling you a stupid, humorless moron who
cannot see that a bit of humor in a support group can go a long way. If
I were not practising L&LL, I would have thought that, and posted it.

Rich

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:lfkmg.26567$VE1.1131@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" wrote:
>
> Gracias, RL, for pointing that out. I think it's been a while since
>
> I see you once again are engaging in lies.

No, no, Jan. You aren't the lie police anymore. You never had the right to
falsely accuse others of lying even before you were PROVEN to be a liar and
a thief. Now it is especially unseemly. Stop it!

--

--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Rich

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Urkmg.26574$VE1.949@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:jIjmg.46$uZ5.25@fe12.lga...
>
> That is another one of your lies.

No, now you are telling another one of YOUR lies. Your lack of humor has
been demonstrated repeatedly when you "LOL" inappropriately about the
suffering of others, and when you respond to truly witty comments with
foot-stamping false accusations of lying. You are a PROVEN liar and thief,
and have no right to judge the veracity of others.
--

--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Rich

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:23jmg.26531$VE1.24381@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Have you?
>
> Do write them and complain. I'll bet they will refer to your x-pert
> knowledge
> of how studies should be done.

That's "defer," not "refer." Your illliteracy is showing again.

>
> Because she isn't a liar. She did mention (just a few) of the side
> effects of Ritalin.

Uh oh, you're using the "L" word again, liar. You may not do that anymore.
--

--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

cathyb

2006-06-21, 9:26 pm

Rich wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:lfkmg.26567$VE1.1131@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> No, no, Jan. You aren't the lie police anymore. You never had the right to
> falsely accuse others of lying even before you were PROVEN to be a liar and
> a thief. Now it is especially unseemly. Stop it!

Perhaps she's abiding by the old adage "set a thief to catch a thief".
Unfortunately, she doesn't appear to know what a lie is, so here's an
outstanding example:

Jan Drew wrote:

(of the article "Stupid Skeptic Tricks"):

"I posted it with permission from the author."

Everyone knew it was a lie.

And look what the author said:

'As the author of "Stupid Skeptic Tricks," I can state unequivocally
that Jan Drew never requested or received permission to reprint or
repost the article from me. I was doing a bit of ego-surfing, and her
dishonesty pissed me off.'

Cathy

>
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
>
> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
> http://www.acahf.org.au
> http://www.quackwatch.org/
> http://www.skeptic.com/
> http://www.csicop.org/

Jan Drew

2006-06-22, 2:33 am

"Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:lfkmg.26567$VE1.1131@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> No, no, Jan. You aren't the lie police anymore. You never had the right to
> falsely accuse others of lying even before you were PROVEN to be a liar
> and a thief. Now it is especially unseemly. Stop it!

I see you are engaging in lies, too.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc...37668e21?hl=en&

Also, it is not the responsiblilty of Peter and HCN and the rest of us to
judge Mark. The
ability to overlook the faults of others is important for getting along in
society.

>
> --
>
>
> --Rich

Jan Drew

2006-06-22, 2:33 am

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150935446.707472.5970@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> I do not need a steeken excuse.

Thanks for proving...YOU do not take responsibility for your postings.

Jan Drew

2006-06-22, 2:33 am

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150935655.709821.21020@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> I see no evidence of you having one. The fact that you can call my
> statement a lie in this context provides ample proof of my statement.

Your "lack of seeing" can be attributed to your inability to analyze and
apply what you learn.
>
>
>
> I did not even think of calling you a stupid, humorless moron who
> cannot see that a bit of humor in a support group can go a long way. If
> I were not practising L&LL, I would have thought that, and posted it.

Poor Mark.

>

Rich

2006-06-22, 2:33 am

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:QInmg.153363$F_3.66570@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150935446.707472.5970@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thanks for proving...YOU do not take responsibility for your postings.

When are you going to take responsibility for, "I posted it with the
permission of the author"? You are a liar and a thief, Jan.
--

--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Peter Bowditch

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1150935446.707472.5970@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>Thanks for proving...YOU do not take responsibility for your postings.
>

Straight over her head, as usual.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

Raving Loonie wrote:
> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
<snipped>
> This *almost* sounds like that famous effect wherein, a little bit of
> poison may cure by stimulating an immune response ... whreas more
> poison will kill.
>
> It is supposed to be a very, very, very controversial topic!
>
> Frankly, capsicum seems to be a really good example of exactly this
> effect!
>

Moderation is the key. There are many things in this life that, taken
in moderation, are good for you; but when taken in excess, are
extremely harmful.

I'll try to get to that email today. Yesterday was another "drive all
over" day. Thankfully, I don't have to do that today, as I got sick
last night from eating things I love that don't love me.

Kitten

Mark Probert

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150935446.707472.5970@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thanks for proving...YOU do not take responsibility for your postings.

That is truly moronic in the context we are discussing.

Mark Probert

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

Peter Bowditch wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Straight over her head, as usual.

Peter, it is my fault. I was aiming at the wrong end.

Mark Probert

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150935655.709821.21020@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Your "lack of seeing" can be attributed to your inability to analyze and
> apply what you learn.

Actually, my "lack of seeing" is attributed to my utter inability to see
what does not exist.

>
> Poor Mark.

Why "Poor Mark"? I did not call you any nasty names, and am living L&LL
regarding you.

Mark Probert

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> Sumbuny wrote:
>
>
> <imagines little bunnies hopping backwards>

I was out shopping with YS the other day and as we exited the store a
kindly person held the door open while I pushed his W/C through.

The alarm went off, and we retreated into the store to ensure that all
security tags had been removed. One of the staff checked and said that
it may just have been an accident. We tried again, and ding dong...

The manager suggested that we exit the store walking backwards (this is
something that we usually do, as I can use my back to push open the door
for his W/C.

So, we went out backwards...no ding dong.

Those bunnies may be on to something.

Mark Probert

2006-06-22, 8:25 am

Rich wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:23jmg.26531$VE1.24381@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> That's "defer," not "refer." Your illliteracy is showing again.

Psst...Rich...do not tell Jan, but you misspelled illiteracy....it only
has two 'l's.

>
> Uh oh, you're using the "L" word again, liar. You may not do that anymore.

Mark Probert

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" wrote:
>
> Gracias, RL, for pointing that out. I think it's been a while since
>
> I see you once again are engaging in lies.

What lie would that be?

>
>
>

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

Mark Probert wrote:
> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
>
> I was out shopping with YS the other day and as we exited the store a
> kindly person held the door open while I pushed his W/C through.
>
> The alarm went off, and we retreated into the store to ensure that all
> security tags had been removed. One of the staff checked and said that
> it may just have been an accident. We tried again, and ding dong...
>
> The manager suggested that we exit the store walking backwards (this is
> something that we usually do, as I can use my back to push open the door
> for his W/C.
>
> So, we went out backwards...no ding dong.
>
> Those bunnies may be on to something.

Thanks for posting that. I need to read things like that ATM.

Kitten

Rich

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:ZHwmg.627$uZ5.234@fe12.lga...

>
> Psst...Rich...do not tell Jan, but you misspelled illiteracy....it only
> has two 'l's.
>

Dang! I'd have sworn it had three 'l's. But I looked it up, and you are
right, it only has two!

;o) Rich

Sumbuny

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

"Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150920268.078387.316660@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Many oif the controlled substances in use today are natural
>
> opium
> coccaine
> barbituates .. mandrax (pheynolbarbitol ) mandrax(ke) root (?)
>
> etc , etc.
>
> Who are you fooling, eh?
>
> Cordially,
>
> RL
>

LOL....reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the movie "Real Genius"
from Val Kilmer....

"""I'm pondering the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?" ""

Yeah....hemlock is "all natural"....and look how "safe" it was for
Socrates.....

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Sumbuny

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:qmjmg.35$uZ5.2@fe12.lga...
> Raving Loonie wrote:
>
> Got a link. I do not use it, or consume any foods made with it since I do
> not like how I feel after eating it, so it is not my concern. However,
> others may benefit.

Hmmmmmm.....

I am having much difficulty with this thread drift.....

Tabasco being one of the major food groups in Cajun cooking and all.....

<g>

However, it does help tremendously with such things as the common cold, and
many in southern Louisiana do seem to be rather healthy and long-lived...or
is that just "stubborn"? <BG>

Interesting page I found on a New Mexico university website.....it does list
medicinal uses for capsicum.....
http://medplant.nmsu.edu/capsicum.htm
""Cayenne Pepper is a plant that has many medicinal uses; it covers a wide
range of ailments. Most of the medicinal properties it has are due to the
chemical that gives it its flavor found in the fruit and seeds. This
chemical is known as capsaicin. Capsaicin is said to do many miraculous
things medicinally. One of the most miraculous is probably its ability to
prevent or even stop a heart attack (7). It increases heart action without
raising blood pressure (3). It also thins your blood and reduces the risks
of suffering a stroke (11). Another good property that cayenne possesses is
it acts as an internal disinfectant it can detoxify the colon and help with
eliminative functions (10). Some other medicinal uses of cayenne are of pain
relievers, by being put on topically to the area. If you have a cut it can
stop the bleeding, or it can be taken internally to relieve pain from
stomach ulcers by creating more mucous and coating the wall of the stomach.
Capsicum also has properties, which can knock out cold and flu miseries, or
when used as a gargle can relieve sore throat pain. People with diabetes may
take it to lower their blood sugar levels. There are so many uses of
Capsicum some of which are not written here. Cayenne is also very high in
vitamin C so it acts as a preventative against respiratory infections and
can help strengthen the immune system (11). It has also been proposed that
the capsaicinoids might be useful in fighting cancer (5). So cayenne is an
all around great medicinal plant that can be used for a very large variety
of whatever might be ailing you. ""

So...I guess I can continue to put the "BAM" in my jambalaya! <G>

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Sumbuny

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

"Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" <st_brigids_gate_farm@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:1150930391.688128.235120@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mark Probert wrote:
> <snipped>
>
>
> Yes, it is to be expected. It's, after all, a result of...
>
> Oh, look! A moth!
>
> Kitten

<BG> I would have thought that staying on topic too long is considered
"straying"
<duck>
--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Sumbuny

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:eqjmg.37$uZ5.28@fe12.lga...
> Sumbuny wrote:
>
> Good point. I wonder if that is an effect of the fish oils or is it
> mediated by the disorder.
>
> More research.
>
> Anyone got a good stream and want a few hundred AD/HDers for the summer?

You are right...if we had been giving our kids "fish oil" for the past 60
years.....

I can only imagine what the diatribes would be right now....

"Stop drugging your children with fish oil.....fish oil causes ADHD"....

Cart before the horse indeed....which is why I thought it was soooo funny--I
could just see the train of thought of all of those who are already doing
this now....

<sigh>

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Sumbuny

2006-06-22, 4:27 pm

"Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" <st_brigids_gate_farm@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:1150930481.405275.291920@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sumbuny wrote:
>
>
> <imagines little bunnies hopping backwards>
>
> Kitten
>

LOL...have you ever gone to any of the moderated forums at about.com? I
frequent a couple there, and actually have an animated gif on my sigline
that has a hyperactive bunny hopping across the screen--never thought about
it going backwards, though....

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Peter Bowditch

2006-06-22, 9:26 pm

"Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>
>"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>news:ZHwmg.627$uZ5.234@fe12.lga...
>
>
>Dang! I'd have sworn it had three 'l's. But I looked it up, and you are
>right, it only has two!
>
>;o) Rich
>

A one-l lama, he's a priest,
A two-l llama, he's a beast.
But I will bet a silk pyjama,
You've never seen a three-l lllama.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

john

2006-06-23, 8:25 am

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:8Ogmg.55125$Lm5.27327@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> http://www.newstarget.com/z019432.html
> NewsTarget.com printable article
> Originally published June 20 2006
> Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows

Good find, the pharma hoax is going to unravel one day, can't wait

"For every drug that benefits a patient, there is a natural substance that
can achieve the same effect." - Pfeiffer's Law

Mark Probert

2006-06-23, 4:28 pm

Sumbuny wrote:
> "Raving Loonie" <raving.loonie@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150920268.078387.316660@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> LOL....reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the movie "Real Genius"
> from Val Kilmer....
>
> """I'm pondering the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?" ""
>
> Yeah....hemlock is "all natural"....and look how "safe" it was for
> Socrates.....
>

Reminds me of Orac's blog article:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...s_homeopa_1.php

Watching the video gives you a good idea of what Peter is like off the
15" monitor screen.

I gotta have a beer with that guy!

(Note, since the concentration of alcohol is lower in beer than in
distilled alcoholic beverages, the alcohol is far more effective in beer.

Mark Probert

2006-06-23, 4:28 pm

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for posting that. I need to read things like that ATM.

Glad to be there.

Speaking of smart animals, I saw a great bumper sticker on one of the
kid's wheelchairs last night.

In my area, and I suspect others, it is quite vogue for parents to put a
bumper sticker on their car that says "Parents of an honor student at
XYZ School".

Other parents put a sticker on that says "My son kicked the butt of your
honor student."

The bumper sticker on the wheelchair said:

"My Canine Companion is Smarter than your Honor Student."

After meeting some honor students and canine companions, I agree.

Mark Probert

2006-06-23, 4:28 pm

Rich wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:ZHwmg.627$uZ5.234@fe12.lga...
>
>
> Dang! I'd have sworn it had three 'l's. But I looked it up, and you are
> right, it only has two!
>
> ;o) Rich

However, if we use up all the available 'l's, then Jan would have to
spell it -iar....

Mark Probert

2006-06-23, 4:28 pm

Peter Bowditch wrote:
> "Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> A one-l lama, he's a priest,
> A two-l llama, he's a beast.
> But I will bet a silk pyjama,
> You've never seen a three-l lllama.

Cute.

Sumbuny

2006-06-23, 4:29 pm

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:xbTmg.1215$uZ5.491@fe12.lga...
> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
>
> Glad to be there.
>
> Speaking of smart animals, I saw a great bumper sticker on one of the
> kid's wheelchairs last night.
>
> In my area, and I suspect others, it is quite vogue for parents to put a
> bumper sticker on their car that says "Parents of an honor student at XYZ
> School".
>
> Other parents put a sticker on that says "My son kicked the butt of your
> honor student."
>
> The bumper sticker on the wheelchair said:
>
> "My Canine Companion is Smarter than your Honor Student."
>
> After meeting some honor students and canine companions, I agree.
>
>

I have got to find that last one...I have a friend who does initial training
for Canine Companions...
http://www.caninecompanions.org/

She would absolutely *love* this one!

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Mark Probert

2006-06-23, 4:29 pm

Sumbuny wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:xbTmg.1215$uZ5.491@fe12.lga...
>
> I have got to find that last one...I have a friend who does initial training
> for Canine Companions...
> http://www.caninecompanions.org/
>
> She would absolutely *love* this one!

It was homemade. The picture of the CC was that of the boys CC.

Those CC are incredibly well trained and beautiful animals. One of YS's
friends has one, and they are like brothers. The boy who died near
Christmas had one, and the CC still sleeps in his room.

Peter Bowditch

2006-06-24, 2:29 am

Mark Probert <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

>Sumbuny wrote:
>
>Reminds me of Orac's blog article:
>
>http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...s_homeopa_1.php
>
>Watching the video gives you a good idea of what Peter is like off the
>15" monitor screen.
>
>I gotta have a beer with that guy!

Any time we are both in the same city it's a date!

>
>(Note, since the concentration of alcohol is lower in beer than in
>distilled alcoholic beverages, the alcohol is far more effective in beer.
>
>
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Mark Probert

2006-06-24, 4:27 pm

Peter Bowditch wrote:
> Mark Probert <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>
>
> Any time we are both in the same city it's a date!

I toyed with the idea of dropping in on you in Vegas when you were
there. I had some frequent flier miles which would have done the trick.

I then learned of a fund raiser where they were looking to convert ff
miles to cash to help a family who had been burned out of their home by
an arsonist.

Sorry, but you lost out on that one.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>

David Wright

2006-06-24, 9:25 pm

In article <L_KdncbHNKKAMgbZnZ2dnUVZ8s6dnZ2d@bt.com>,
john <sc@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:8Ogmg.55125$Lm5.27327@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
>Good find, the pharma hoax is going to unravel one day, can't wait
>
>"For every drug that benefits a patient, there is a natural substance that
>can achieve the same effect." - Pfeiffer's Law

That's not a "law", it's just wishful thinking.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

stan

2006-06-25, 9:25 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> http://www.newstarget.com/z019432.html
> NewsTarget.com printable article
> Originally published June 20 2006
> Fish oils treat ADHD better than prescription drugs, study shows
> According to the results of a new study from the university of South
> Australia, fish oil is more effective at treating children with attention
> deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) than stimulant drugs, such as commonly
> prescribed Ritalin.
> The 15-week study, which included 132 children ages 7 to 12, split the
> children into three groups. The first group received a daily dose of omega-3
> fish oil; the second group received the fish oil plus a multi-vitamin and
> mineral pill; and the third group received a placebo.
>
> By the end of the study, the children in the first and second groups showed
> major improvement in the reduction of hyperactivity symptoms and also
> displayed increased levels of concentration, compared to the placebo group.
>
> Natalie Sinn, the study's leader, said the results showed that omega-3 fish
> oils boosted the concentration and brainpower in kids displaying ADHD
> symptoms, but without the side effects of Ritalin, which can include
> hallucinations, heart problems and aggressive behavior.

It seems like the study design and the claim made do not
match. There should have been a fourth group - that receiving a
properly prescribed therapeutic daily dosage of methylphenidate
(Ritalin).

And, I have never heard of methylphenidate (or any c.n.s.
stimulant for that matter) causing hallucinations. I am not informed
enough to comment confidently on the claim of "aggression". I will
offer an opinion, 'though, that that can be left to interpretation and
that a research clinician, being a human being, will sometimes find
something just because he/she wants to find or is specifically looking
for it.

The "heart problems" you describe are likely the commonly
known and rather manageable side effect of "edginess" which can be
approximated be a "normy" having had too much coffee, and which can
probably be alleviated by a dosage change, a timing change, taking the
med with food, reducing or eliminating caffeine consumption, and/or
changing the med if THAT particular patient just doesn't achieve an
acceptable cost/benefit ratio from taking methylphenidate.

-stan

mark.probert@gmail.com

2006-06-25, 9:25 pm

stan wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> It seems like the study design and the claim made do not
> match. There should have been a fourth group - that receiving a
> properly prescribed therapeutic daily dosage of methylphenidate
> (Ritalin).
>
> And, I have never heard of methylphenidate (or any c.n.s.
> stimulant for that matter) causing hallucinations. I am not informed
> enough to comment confidently on the claim of "aggression". I will
> offer an opinion, 'though, that that can be left to interpretation and
> that a research clinician, being a human being, will sometimes find
> something just because he/she wants to find or is specifically looking
> for it.
>
> The "heart problems" you describe are likely the commonly
> known and rather manageable side effect of "edginess" which can be
> approximated be a "normy" having had too much coffee, and which can
> probably be alleviated by a dosage change, a timing change, taking the
> med with food, reducing or eliminating caffeine consumption, and/or
> changing the med if THAT particular patient just doesn't achieve an
> acceptable cost/benefit ratio from taking methylphenidate.
>
>
> -stan

Is that YOU, Stanley?

stan

2006-06-25, 9:25 pm

>
>
> Is that YOU, Stanley?

Um.....aruhmmm.........BOO! ;) Hey, Mark. Been staying outta
trouble? Nope - you're still here!!! hee hee

Jan Drew

2006-06-26, 2:28 am

<mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151285973.592615.86690@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> stan wrote:
>
>
> Is that YOU, Stanley?

LOL. Poor Mark. Too lazy..or don't know how to click on. Find messages
by this author.
>

cathyb

2006-06-26, 2:28 am

stan

2006-06-26, 2:28 am

Jan Drew wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151285973.592615.86690@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> LOL. Poor Mark. Too lazy..or don't know how to click on. Find messages
> by this author.

Okay - I know better than this, but I'm impulsive and defensive -
good qualities to have on an open forum, right? Anyway - Jan, this
seems quite a reach just to attempt a jab at Mark. I haven't posted on
here in several years - and wasn't regularly active for several years
before *that*. Thus - it isn't laziness - as I'm sure you already
knew, but more of the "Fred? God - it's been ages! How's the wife and
family?" scenario.

You fightin' with Mark or something - cuz really - kind of a
weird post. You know what a forced rhyme is? Have you ever seen that
(kid) at a party who is trying so hard to fit in and join the
conversation - and he tells a joke that just poops out in mid air, and
all goes silent as the tumbleweed rolls by........?

-stan

Jan Drew

2006-06-26, 2:28 am

"cathyb" <cathybeesley@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:1151292858.349439.235810@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Remedial English, Jan.

http://cmslive.curriculum.edu.au/le...ueID=9794&id=58

http://www.aacircle.com.au/forums/t...shan-south.html

Jan Drew

2006-06-26, 2:28 am

"stan" wrote:
>
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Okay - I know better than this, but I'm impulsive and defensive -
> good qualities to have on an open forum, right? Anyway - Jan, this
> seems quite a reach just to attempt a jab at Mark.

*in your opinion*

<snip>
>
>
> -stan
>

Mark Probert

2006-06-26, 4:28 pm

stan wrote:
>
>
> Um.....aruhmmm.........BOO! ;) Hey, Mark. Been staying outta
> trouble? Nope - you're still here!!! hee hee
>

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time no see. How is everything
going for you?

Mark Probert

2006-06-26, 4:28 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1151285973.592615.86690@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> LOL. Poor Mark. Too lazy..or don't know how to click on. Find messages
> by this author.

Stan is an old timer from asad and what I typed was a greeting. I know
that being functionally illiterate, as you are, makes one look stupid,
so I will not think that you are a moron for what you posted.

Mark Probert

2006-06-26, 4:28 pm

stan wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Okay - I know better than this, but I'm impulsive and defensive -
> good qualities to have on an open forum, right? Anyway - Jan, this
> seems quite a reach just to attempt a jab at Mark. I haven't posted on
> here in several years - and wasn't regularly active for several years
> before *that*. Thus - it isn't laziness - as I'm sure you already
> knew, but more of the "Fred? God - it's been ages! How's the wife and
> family?" scenario.

Exactly.

> You fightin' with Mark or something - cuz really - kind of a
> weird post. You know what a forced rhyme is? Have you ever seen that
> (kid) at a party who is trying so hard to fit in and join the
> conversation - and he tells a joke that just poops out in mid air, and
> all goes silent as the tumbleweed rolls by........?

Chuckle...

Mark Probert

2006-06-26, 4:28 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> "stan" wrote:
>
> *in your opinion*
>
>
> <snip>

Poor Jan.

Jan Drew

2006-06-26, 9:27 pm

http://groups.google.com/group/misc...b6cb0cf0c953404

G-d has helped in many ways. He gave me the insight to see that calling
you names and abusing you as I was doing was wrong.

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:mGRng.740$V27.95@fe09.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Stan is an old timer from asad and what I typed was a greeting. I know
> that being functionally illiterate, as you are, makes one look stupid, so
> I will not think that you are a moron for what you posted.

Mark Probert

2006-06-26, 9:27 pm

Jan Drew wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/misc...b6cb0cf0c953404
>
> G-d has helped in many ways. He gave me the insight to see that calling
> you names and abusing you as I was doing was wrong.

Excuse me? I did not call you a name. It is a fact that you are
functionally illiterate. That is NOT my fault and telling you that is
not meant to be calling you a name.

You chose to ignore my suggestion a few years ago where I told you about
adult ed courses near your home. That was your choice.

>
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:mGRng.740$V27.95@fe09.lga...
>
>

Jan Drew

2006-06-27, 2:31 am

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:TRZng.4528$HA2.3234@fe10.lga...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> Excuse me?

You need excused.

I did not call you a name.

Comprehension 101.

and abusing you as I was doing was wrong.

It is a fact that you are
> functionally illiterate.

No, that is not a fact.

That is NOT my fault and telling you that is
> not meant to be calling you a name.

*Agreed. I wil lbe adjusting my style.*

yes, I am adjusting it..fine tuning it...I do not need much to get iot
better...

http://www.torah.org/learning/halas...ter4.html#react

[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You chose to ignore my suggestion a few years ago where I told you about
> adult ed courses near your home. That was your choice.
>

cathyb

2006-06-27, 2:31 am

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:TRZng.4528$HA2.3234@fe10.lga...
>
> You need excused.
>
> I did not call you a name.
>
> Comprehension 101.
>
> and abusing you as I was doing was wrong.
>
>
> It is a fact that you are
>
> No, that is not a fact.
>
> That is NOT my fault and telling you that is
>
> *Agreed. I wil lbe adjusting my style.*
>
> yes, I am adjusting it..fine tuning it...I do not need much to get iot
> better...
>
> http://www.torah.org/learning/halas...ter4.html#react

Absolutely incredible.

Jan has actually outdone her own record for writing the most
incomprehensible post on usenet.

Remedial English, Jan. Oh, and learn to quote properly.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>

Mark Probert

2006-06-27, 8:27 am

Jan Drew wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:TRZng.4528$HA2.3234@fe10.lga...
>
> You need excused.

It is a rhetorical statement since your post was demonstrative of your
functional illiteracy.

>
> I did not call you a name.
>
> Comprehension 101.

I am way beyond Comprehension 101, try 100000000000000000000000000001.

> and abusing you as I was doing was wrong.

That is a fact. Pointing out your deficiencies is not abusing you, but
an effort to help you.

> It is a fact that you are
>
> No, that is not a fact.

Of course you would think that, simply because you do not understand
what the problem is.

> That is NOT my fault and telling you that is
>
> *Agreed. I wil lbe adjusting my style.*

Exactly.

> yes, I am adjusting it..fine tuning it...I do not need much to get iot
> better...
>
> http://www.torah.org/learning/halas...ter4.html#react
>
>

No response noted.

Poor Jan.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>