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stopping statins is bad for your health
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| outrider 2005-08-07, 6:03 pm |
| May 17, 2005
STOPPING STATINS IS BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH!
By Red Flags Columnist, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick
A kind reader just sent me a link to an article in
Geriatrics
It was entitled, 'stopping statins is bad for your
health.' I'm afraid
to say that it isn't new news, as it came out in
October last year, but
it is news to me. And it is such a mind-bogglingly
stupid article that
it demands some comment.
It was written by one Frederick T. Sherman, who has no
financial
connections with the pharmaceutical industry to
disclose. So here is a
little challenge to readers of Red Flags. Find the
financial connection
between Frederick T. Sherman and a statin manufacturer
and win a prize.
(The prize being a sense of smug moral satisfaction -
do you think I am
made of money?)
By the way, the fact that there is a great big banner
ad for Lipitor at
the top of the web page, and a socking great ad for
Caduet running down
the side, doesn't count. Just because Pfizer provides
advertising
revenue to a journal that Frederick T. Sherman gets
paid to write for is
far too easy.
Moving on. The main theme of this article is Bill
Clinton, and his heart
attack, and quadruple bypass. Apparently, in 1992 he
had been found to
have an LDL level of 177 - oh, my God. Luckily, his
eagle eyed doctor
had started him on Simvastatin ... in 2001. Glad to see
the medical
profession leaping into immediate action.
But naughty, naughty Bill stopped taking his statin,
and had a heart
attack in 2004. Or maybe he didn't have a heart
attack, but just had
blocked up arteries - this bit isn't too clear. Why
did Bill stop taking
his statin? Because he felt he was taking exercise and
losing weight,
and didn't need to take a statin any more.
Now, I'm not one to judge - as my mother-in-law is
wont to say, before
doling out a metaphysical death sentence - but Bill
really ought to know
better. I know that diet and exercise are supposed to
be the first
actions taken for those with high LDL levels, before
taking drugs. But
once you're on drugs, you really ought to take them
forever, and ever,
and ever.
As William T. Sherman would say:
'Clearly, long-term compliance with medications,
specifically statins,
is more important than diet and exercise alone. Drug
therapy, rather
than lifestyle modification, must become the mainstay
of therapy for the
primary and secondary prevention of CAD. The future
coronary health of
the American public depends upon Baby Boomers and
subsequent generations
taking all of their cardioprotective medications for
life.'
Read that paragraph you naughty people you. Exercise
all you like, lose
all the weight you can, but it will make no
difference. YOU MUST TAKE
YOUR STATINS. Now, go to bed and no pudding for you.
A small issue William T. Sherman noted is that, in
1992, Bill Clinton
had an LDL level of 177. In 2004, it was 114. Excuse
me, William T.
Sherman, but does it not seem odd to you that Bill
Clinton had achieved
an LDL reduction of 35%, having stopped his statin. A
35% reduction in
LDL would be considered a therapeutic 'success,' for
the statinators
amongst us.
So, without a statin Bill Clinton's LDL fell by 35%,
then he had a heart
attack. Forgive me for saying this William T. Sherman,
but to my mind
this would appear to suggest that a falling LDL level
is a risk factor
for CHD - as clearly demonstrated in the Framingham
study, amongst others.
In the unforgiving logical prison that I inhabit, the
parable of Bill
Clinton would not seem to be a warning against
stopping statins. It
seems more likely to be a warning that when your LDL
level falls, you
are in serious danger of suffering a heart attack.
However, I tend to
find that one's interpretation of events can be
clouded by external
funding issues.
Anyway, thank you to William T. Sherman for reminding
us that 'The
future coronary health of the American public depends
upon Baby Boomers
and subsequent generations taking all of their
cardioprotective
medications for life.'
There is just no answer to that - at least not before
the children have
safely gone to bed.
fairuse
www.redflagsweekly.com
| |
| Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area 2005-08-07, 6:04 pm |
| I have been hearing about side effects from taking statins, in my
stroke group. I would like accurate info about whether they are worth
the risk.
| |
|
| On 7 Aug 2005 12:02:15 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
<GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
>I have been hearing about side effects from taking statins, in my
>stroke group. I would like accurate info about whether they are worth
>the risk.
Ask your doctor unless you're willing to follow the advice of Chamblee
and his parrots.
| |
| Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com 2005-08-07, 6:04 pm |
|
Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area wrote:
> I have been hearing about side effects from taking statins, in my
> stroke group. I would like accurate info about whether they are worth
> the risk.
COMMENT:
The HPS trial showed that people who already had evidence of
cerebrovascular disease (certainly a former stroke counts) had a 33%
reduction in risk of further stroke being complaiant with 40 mg a day
of simvastatin (Zocor). That's a big reduction--- the stuff prevents
one stroke in three in this group.
So yes, nearly everyone agrees that it's worth the risk, for stroke
patients. Despite all the propaganda you hear against statins here,
most statin side effects go away if you get them, and you stop the
pill. And in any case, they are rare (severe ones in total being
considerably more rare than 1 in 50 users, and probably more like 1 in
200 users if you subtract placebo rates).
A doctor named Golomb at UCSD has been collecting 1000 people to run a
statin side effect trial. That study was supposed to have been
concluded last year, and isn't yet. That tells me they managed to
collect the full 1000 people, and the trial wasn't stopped prematurely
by monitors for ethical reasons. That fact alone puts upper bounds on
how many severe side effects they could have seen. If the trial was
well-run and properly run, this number cannot have been large.
SBH
| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2005-08-07, 6:04 pm |
| Per Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area:
>I have been hearing about side effects from taking statins, in my
>stroke group. I would like accurate info about whether they are worth
>the risk.
I'm not qualified to answer the question directly, but can say that my wife and
I took two different paths. She modified her diet/exercise and raised her HDL
from 30 to 60. Haven't seen her lipid test results sheet so I can't say what
her computed risk factor is.
The cardiologist who was treating me was a good friend of my late brother before
he died of a familial hypercholesterolemia-induced heart attack.
Looking back, I probably should have sought out somebody more neutral, but as it
is, I went on Zocor per his advice. However stuff's expensive and, even
though the risks are probably acceptable to most people; there are still risks
(and, probably, side effects).
In retrospect, I think I'd rather have tried diet/exercise under competent
supervision and then gone on a statin if that did not work out in some
reasonable timeframe.
In fact, having just had my gall bladder out, I'm taking advantage of that
dietary cusp to try to mimic my spouse's eating. After about six months of
that, I plan to get a blood lipid profile and see what my GP says. Maybe it's
not too late to get off of the stuff without increasing my risk factor.
--
PeteCresswell
| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2005-08-07, 6:04 pm |
| Per (PeteCresswell):
>under competent
>supervision
I should add that some time ago, I naively went on my own version of a
vegetarian diet - with no supervision. I enjoyed the food and my HDL and LDL
numbers didn't change much - but my trigs went through the roof - as in from 169
to 452.
So competent supervision is definitely important.
--
PeteCresswell
| |
|
|
"Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area" <GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1123441335.664347.238990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have been hearing about side effects from taking statins, in my
> stroke group. I would like accurate info about whether they are worth
> the risk.
>
First, that is the right question. There are risks, and for some they are
worth it and for others not. Most problems resolve when the statin is
discontinued and the Dr. should monitor you to make sure nothing is
developing. So it is best to work this out with your Dr.
You should see what your cholesterol numbers are. If they are bad you should
try diet and exercise first. Also, your medical history is important have you
had a heart attack or a family history of one, etc.
Bill
| |
| outrider 2005-08-07, 6:04 pm |
|
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area wrote:
>
> COMMENT:
> The HPS trial showed that people who already had evidence of
> cerebrovascular disease (certainly a former stroke counts) had a 33%
> reduction in risk of further stroke being complaiant with 40 mg a day
> of simvastatin (Zocor). That's a big reduction--- the stuff prevents
> one stroke in three in this group.
What type of stroke?
And the other?
>
> So yes, nearly everyone agrees that it's worth the risk, for stroke
> patients. Despite all the propaganda you hear against statins here,
> most statin side effects go away if you get them, and you stop the
> pill. And in any case, they are rare (severe ones in total being
> considerably more rare than 1 in 50 users, and probably more like 1 in
> 200 users if you subtract placebo rates).
One in 50... And how many MILLIONS are taking statins?
>
> A doctor named Golomb at UCSD has been collecting 1000 people to run a
> statin side effect trial. That study was supposed to have been
> concluded last year, and isn't yet. That tells me they managed to
> collect the full 1000 people, and the trial wasn't stopped prematurely
> by monitors for ethical reasons. That fact alone puts upper bounds on
> how many severe side effects they could have seen. If the trial was
> well-run and properly run, this number cannot have been large.
>
> SBH
I am one who has had life-altering, disabling side effects from
statins. Now, four years after BAYCOL recall I have yet to recover well
enough to work at my former profession (journalist: reporter, news
photograher) or work with any predicability more than about 15 hours a
MONTH. I also cannot command the very good hourly wage my exceptional
skills drew. I have lost language function; and my vision is very bad.
I have lived on my cashed in savings and pension, sold everything I own
but for a bed, 2 chairs, a computer, and an 18 year old car. I on about
$800 a month, of my own money, until I am eligible for a somewhat
smaller sum at 65. It takes ingenuity to live well on this.
Fortunately, I have that. I regularly take goods including food, from
dumpsters in my neighbourhood. What I can't use I sell to consignment
shops.
Here is a partial list of my ADVERSE EFFECTS on STATINS:
Pancreatitis, gall bladder disease, helicobactor pylori ulcer, myopathy
and rhabdomyolysis, tendon and ligament damage, worsening of a
pre-existing back condition (2 instrumented fusions), cognitive
damage--many people with similar have been MRId with lesions and
atrophy, aphasia, short term memory loss, working memory difficulty,
transient global amnesia, permanent vision damage. This is a list
compiled from known statin adverse effects. I've probably forgotten
something.
Dr. Golomb is the P.I. of the 5 year NIH funded Statin Study. She and
her team of researchers are investagating the ADVERSE EFFECTS of
statins. Dr. Golomb has had other very demanding considerations of
late. But we statin-injured know she will soon return with renewed
vigour to continue her work.
This is Dr. Golomb's website. Her researchers would love to hear from
you with your experience of statins. They have questionnaires they will
mail to you; and packages of information on how to deal with statin
side effects. They will, at your request, contact your doctors on your
behalf if they do not acknowledge your symptoms might be coming from
your statin. Golomb et al have done this for thousands of people from
all over the world, apart from her study participants. Including me.
STATIN STUDY website
contact information within
http://medicine.ucsd.edu/SES/index.htm
Dr. Beatrice Golomb's cv:
http://medicine.ucsd.edu/faculty/golomb/
Statin Adverse Effects: Implications for the Elderly
by Beatrice A. Golomb, M.D., Ph.D.
Geriatric Times May/June 2004 Vol. V Issue 3
Statins, or 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-CoA reductase inhibitors
(e.g., atorvastatin [Lipitor], simvastatin [Zocor]), are among the
best-selling prescription drugs in the world and are widely viewed as
very safe and effective. Their benefits to coronary artery disease have
been copiously documented and are incontrovertible. In addition,
statins have been shown to benefit survival in a large study of
middle-aged men with, or at high risk for, heart disease (Scandinavian
Simvastatin Survival Study Group, 1994). Nonetheless, all drugs have
potential adverse reactions despite their potential benefits.
Understanding these risks is vitally important, particularly in elderly
patients in whom both risks and benefits differ relative to younger
patients.
Evidence suggests the balance of benefits to risks may be less
favorable in the elderly: Cholesterol becomes a less potent predictor
of cardiovascular problems, and adverse reactions from drugs, including
statins, may become more prominent. While patients at high risk for
cardiovascular disease receive mortality benefit from statins in
studies predominating in middle-aged men (Scandinavian Simvastatin
Survival Study Group, 1994), no trend toward survival benefit is seen
in elderly patients at high risk for cardiovascular disease (Shepherd
et al., 2002). A less favorable risk-benefit profile may particularly
hold for patients older than 85, in whom benefits may be more
attenuated and risks more amplified (Weverling-Rijnsburger et al.,
1997). In fact, in this older group, higher cholesterol has been linked
observationally to improved survival. This paper will review a
selection of the risks and adverse effects of statins that have special
implications for elderly patients.
Muscle Problems
Muscle problems are the most common reported adverse effects of
statins, according to an observational database maintained by the
University of California at San Diego Statin Study group. Perhaps the
most feared adverse effect of statins is rhabdomyolysis--a condition in
which there is severe breakdown of muscle tissue that may be toxic to
the kidneys and result in kidney failure or death. The muscle breakdown
commonly leads to a strong elevation in blood levels of muscle enzyme
creatine kinase (CK). Creatine kinase levels often exceed 10 times the
upper limit of normal in cases of frank rhabdomyolysis. Fatal
rhabdomyolysis occurred with increased frequency with cerivastatin
(Baycol) when used at higher doses or in combination with gemfibrozil
(Lopid); cerivastatin was removed from the U.S. market in 2001.
Rhabdomyolysis occurs with all statins, although the actual frequency
of occurrence is quite low.
Physicians are most familiar with rhabdomyolysis, and many suppose
that for muscle pain to be statin-associated, it must induce muscle
symptoms throughout the body coupled with elevation of CK levels.
However, this reflects only one manifestation of statin-associated
muscle symptoms. Some patients have only new focal pain or new fatigue,
and may have mild or no elevation in CK levels. In some instances these
symptoms progress to rhabdomyolysis--one reason to take these symptoms
seriously--but many times they do not.
An important double-blind, crossover biopsy study showed that some
patients receiving statin therapy with non-CK-elevating muscle pain
have objectively documentable, partially reversible mitochondrial
myopathy (Phillips et al., 2002). Even in the absence of rhabdomyolysis
or CK elevation, major effects on function and quality of life may
occur (Golomb et al., 2003). It is important to note that in both our
experience and that of others, muscle symptoms precipitated by statins
may not in all cases completely recover; this is consistent with the
finding that, pathologically, the myopathy may not completely reverse.
Adverse muscle problems from statins, in addition to
rhabdomyolysis, take a variety of forms (Table). Shortness of breath
sometimes accompanies statin-associated muscle problems. The
"respiratory exchange ratio"--the ratio of carbon dioxide exhaled per
oxygen inhaled--is altered in people with statin myotoxicity (Phillips
et al., 2004). Occasionally, shortness of breath is the predominant
symptom. Patients may experience marked shortness of breath that occurs
following initiation of statin therapy and is sustained while statins
are continued for which no etiology is identified on extensive
cardiopulmonary workup. These symptoms resolve completely with statin
discontinuation.
Muscle problems associated with statins may be more common among
the elderly. In the 2002 American college of Cardiology/American Heart
Association/National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute Clinical Advisory
on the Use and Safety of Statins, Pasternak et al. noted the following
factors that may increase the risk for statin-associated myopathy:
* advanced age (especially >80 years, women > men);
* small body frame and frailty;
* multisystem disease;
* multiple medications;
* perioperative periods; and
* concurrent use of certain medications.
These factors are especially common among the elderly, which places
them at increased risk for development of muscle problems with statins.
Muscle problems associated with statins may be more debilitating
among the elderly. When muscle problems occur, they may have more
impact on the elderly. Elderly patients more commonly have already
declined in muscle strength and function; and are often already on, or
perched near, the steep part of the curve relating muscle strength to
physical function, independence and the ability to perform activities
of daily living. Thus, the same amount or proportion of compromise in
muscle function may have a substantially more profound impact on
quality of life in elderly patients. In addition, reductions in
physical function, indexed by reductions in lower extremity function,
are linked to self-reported disability, hospitalizations, admissions to
nursing homes and mortality from all causes (Guralnik et al., 2000,
1995, 1994; Penninx et al., 2000). Reductions in lower extremity
function are associated with reduced physical activity (McDermott et
al., 2002), so that such patients may lose the protection that exercise
is reported to afford against a host of conditions.
Cognitive Loss
Cognitive problems also occur with statins and may also have more
impact in elderly patients. Two randomized trials that were designed to
assess cognitive effects of statins have shown worsening in cognitive
function (Muldoon et al., 2002, 2000). In addition, several case
reports (King et al., 2003, 2001; Orsi et al., 2001) and one large case
series (involving 60 patients) (Wagstaff et al., 2003) have reported
deleterious cognitive effects of statins on memory and cognitive
function.
Although not expressly designed to assess cognition, results from
the Heart Protection Study (HPS) (Heart Protection Study Collaborative
Group, 2002) and PROSPER trial (Shepherd et al., 2002) did not show
that statin therapy had favorable or deleterious effects on cognitive
measures that were tested. Several factors may help to explain the
discrepancy between findings from these large and smaller trials
targeted at testing cognition. First, different measures of cognition
were used that may not have tapped the areas in which problems occur.
The telephone survey measure in the HPS, for instance, would not have
captured visuomotor coordination and processing speed, which the other
trials suggested may be particularly affected.
Second, the large trials enrolled people at high risk for
cardiovascular disease who experience benefit from statins to nonfatal
stroke, which may lead to improvements in cognition that may help to
balance out harms to cognition from other mechanisms. Although there
are trends toward increases in fatal stroke with statins in most of the
large statin trials, those who have died cannot complete cognitive
surveys. The impact on total number of strokes was unaffected in the
PROSPER trial with its sole focus on the elderly population. In the
PROSPER trial, the number of reduced transient ischemic attacks and
nonfatal strokes was actually matched by a similar number of increased
fatal strokes.
Finally, the HPS used what is termed an "active run-in." For six
weeks, participants considered for enrollment were placed on
simvastatin, and those who were not fully compliant were dropped from
the study. Participants who perceived problems on the drug, including
cognitive problems, may have dropped the study themselves or skipped
pills intentionally. In addition, participants who developed memory
problems may have had trouble remembering to take the pills even if
they did not recognize deterioration in cognitive function. This run-in
process may have excluded participants who developed cognitive problems
on the drug, selecting only those who did not experience problems. Over
one-third of those who were interested in enrolling were excluded
following this compliance run-in.
Because statins reduce nonfatal stroke (and cognition is obviously
not measured in people who have experienced fatal stroke), benefits by
statins for cognitive function in those in whom a stroke was averted
might be expected. It must be emphasized that the randomized trial
evidence has, to date, uniformly failed to show cognitive benefits by
statins and has supported no effect or frank and significant harm to
cognitive function.
Analogous to the case for muscle adverse effects, the impact of
cognitive adverse effects from statins, when they occur, may be more
profound in the elderly. Elderly patients have more commonly already
experienced some decline in cognitive function, and more commonly are
in a vulnerable range in which additional impairment can have an impact
on independence and safety. Indeed, a number of studies show that even
modest reductions in cognition in the elderly are linked to increased
mortality, even when the reductions remain within the nondemented
range, and even when other health factors have been controlled for
(Bassuk et al., 2000; Frisoni et al., 1999; Korten et al., 1999; Smits
et al., 1999). In this context, adverse cognitive effects must be taken
seriously not only for their intrinsic impact on quality of life, but
for their potentially weighty implications for mortality.
Other Adverse Effects
A large variety of other adverse effects have been reported with
statins, including (but not limited to) gastrointestinal and
neurological effects, psychiatric problems, immune effects (e.g.,
lupus-like syndrome), erectile dysfunction and gynecomastia (breast
enlargement in men), rash and skin problems, and sleep problems.
Of particular note for the elderly population, the PROSPER trial
found a significant 25% increase in incident cancer in participants
over age 70 randomized to statin therapy versus placebo (Shepherd et
al., 2002). Because statins have been reported to cause cancer in
animals, the significant increase in cancer cannot be dismissed as
necessarily a fluke. While a similar increase has not been seen in
studies of statins in younger participants, older people have poorer
stores of the cancer-protecting antioxidant nutrients that low-density
lipoprotein cholesterol helps to transport to tissue (so that the
increase in risk may occur selectively in elderly). Even if the
fractional change in risk were similar, the elderly have a higher risk
of cancer, increasing the number of cancer events that would manifest.
Low cholesterol is also linked to infection, including development
of postoperative infection (Leardi et al., 2000) and predicts mortality
and adverse outcomes in hospitalized patients (Crook et al., 1999).
While some of this could be due to illness causing lower cholesterol,
it may also be that low cholesterol contributes to illness; indeed,
animal studies suggest lipoproteins may serve to protect against
bacterial endotoxin-induced death (Read et al., 1993).
Statins may produce irritability or short temper in some people, a
problem that occurs with statin therapy and resolves with its
discontinuation (Golomb et al., 2004). For elderly patients who depend
on others for assistance, irritability and its impact on the
relationship with caregivers may have special implications.
Heart failure may also occur in patients taking statin therapy. In
some people, the myopathic effects of statins may impair heart pumping
function (Silver et al., 2003). However, in patients with reduced
pumping function due to coronary artery blockages, statins may help
heart pumping by improving blood flow to the heart (Node et al., 2003).
It depends on the person whether benefit or harm dominates with statin
therapy.
Discussion
Observational studies show that as age increases within the elderly
age range, high cholesterol flattens then reverses as a risk factor for
mortality (Weverling-Rijnsburger et al., 1997). Although it remains to
be fully clarified whether these findings have relevance to
cholesterol-lowering treatment, the exclusive major randomized trial of
statins conducted in the elderly does nothing to dispel a possible
causal association, as it did not show benefit of statins to survival.
The impact was completely neutral on mortality despite selecting for an
elderly population at only moderately older age and selecting for
particularly high risk of heart disease--the elderly group in whom
greater benefits and lower risks would be expected (Shepherd et al.,
2002). There are reasons for concern that still older people--those
elderly not selecting for high cardiac risk and those who are frailer
than clinical trials generally select--might fare less well. Caution
should be exercised in provision of statins as with all treatments in
elderly patients. Any time a patient develops a new problem or
worsening of an existing problem, the medication list should be
reviewed and a possible contribution by medications should be
considered. This principle is by no means confined to statins. It is
particularly true in elderly patients who may be on many medications
with interacting effects, and in whom ability to withstand adverse drug
reactions may be attenuated.
Acknowledgement
Dr. Golomb would like to thank Tram Dang for research assistance
and Janis Ritchie, R.N., for administrative assistance.
Dr. Golomb is on the faculty of the department of medicine and
family and preventive medicine at the university of California, San
Diego. Her research focuses on the risks and benefits of medical
interventions.
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hospitalization. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci 55(11):M691-M697.
Phillips PS, Haas RH, Bannykh S et al. (2002), Statin-associated
myopathy with normal creatine kinase levels. Ann Intern Med
137(7):581-585 [see comments].
Phillips CT, Gray NL, Puhek LM et al. (2004), Basal respiratory
exchange ratio is altered with statin use in normals. J Am Cardio
43(suppl A):233a.
Read TE, Harris HW, Grunfeld C et al. (1993), The protective effect
of serum lipoproteins against bacterial lipopolysaccharide. Eur Heart J
14(suppl K):125-129.
Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study Group (1994), Randomised
trial of cholesterol lowering in 4444 patients with coronary heart
disease: the Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study (4S). Lancet
344(8934):1383-1389.
Shepherd J, Blauw GJ, Murphy MB et al. (2002), Pravastatin in
elderly individuals at risk of vascular disease (PROSPER): a randomised
controlled trial. Lancet 360(9346):1623-1630 [see comments].
Silver MA, Langsjoen PH, Szabo S et al. (2003), Statin
cardiomyopathy? A potential role for coenzyme Q10 therapy for
statin-induced changes in diastolic LV performance: description of a
clinical protocol. Biofactors 18(1-4):125-127.
Smits CH, Deeg DJ, Kriegsman DM, Schmand B (1999), Cognitive
functioning and health as determinants of mortality in an older
population. Am J Epidemiol 150(9):978-986.
Wagstaff LR, Mitton MW, Arvik BM, Doraiswamy PM (2003),
Statin-associated memory loss: analysis of 60 case reports and review
of the literature. Pharmacotherapy 23(7):871-880.
Weverling-Rijnsburger AW, Blauw GJ, Lagaay AM et al. (1997), Total
cholesterol and risk of mortality in the oldest old. [Published erratum
Lancet 351(9095):70.] Lancet 350(9085):1119-1123 [see comment].
| |
|
| Many people have as strong a belief in how good statins are as the people here
believe how bad they are. Neither need to be paid to write about it.
The best way to get answers is through scientific trials and let the trials
speak for themselves.
Bill
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1123440602.960630.319780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> May 17, 2005
>
> STOPPING STATINS IS BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH!
>
> By Red Flags Columnist, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick
>
> A kind reader just sent me a link to an article in
> Geriatrics
>
> It was entitled, 'stopping statins is bad for your
> health.' I'm afraid
> to say that it isn't new news, as it came out in
> October last year, but
> it is news to me. And it is such a mind-bogglingly
> stupid article that
> it demands some comment.
>
> It was written by one Frederick T. Sherman, who has no
> financial
> connections with the pharmaceutical industry to
> disclose. So here is a
> little challenge to readers of Red Flags. Find the
> financial connection
> between Frederick T. Sherman and a statin manufacturer
> and win a prize.
> (The prize being a sense of smug moral satisfaction -
> do you think I am
> made of money?)
>
> By the way, the fact that there is a great big banner
> ad for Lipitor at
> the top of the web page, and a socking great ad for
> Caduet running down
> the side, doesn't count. Just because Pfizer provides
> advertising
> revenue to a journal that Frederick T. Sherman gets
> paid to write for is
> far too easy.
>
> Moving on. The main theme of this article is Bill
> Clinton, and his heart
> attack, and quadruple bypass. Apparently, in 1992 he
> had been found to
> have an LDL level of 177 - oh, my God. Luckily, his
> eagle eyed doctor
> had started him on Simvastatin ... in 2001. Glad to see
> the medical
> profession leaping into immediate action.
>
> But naughty, naughty Bill stopped taking his statin,
> and had a heart
> attack in 2004. Or maybe he didn't have a heart
> attack, but just had
> blocked up arteries - this bit isn't too clear. Why
> did Bill stop taking
> his statin? Because he felt he was taking exercise and
> losing weight,
> and didn't need to take a statin any more.
>
> Now, I'm not one to judge - as my mother-in-law is
> wont to say, before
> doling out a metaphysical death sentence - but Bill
> really ought to know
> better. I know that diet and exercise are supposed to
> be the first
> actions taken for those with high LDL levels, before
> taking drugs. But
> once you're on drugs, you really ought to take them
> forever, and ever,
> and ever.
>
> As William T. Sherman would say:
>
> 'Clearly, long-term compliance with medications,
> specifically statins,
> is more important than diet and exercise alone. Drug
> therapy, rather
> than lifestyle modification, must become the mainstay
> of therapy for the
> primary and secondary prevention of CAD. The future
> coronary health of
> the American public depends upon Baby Boomers and
> subsequent generations
> taking all of their cardioprotective medications for
> life.'
>
> Read that paragraph you naughty people you. Exercise
> all you like, lose
> all the weight you can, but it will make no
> difference. YOU MUST TAKE
> YOUR STATINS. Now, go to bed and no pudding for you.
>
> A small issue William T. Sherman noted is that, in
> 1992, Bill Clinton
> had an LDL level of 177. In 2004, it was 114. Excuse
> me, William T.
> Sherman, but does it not seem odd to you that Bill
> Clinton had achieved
> an LDL reduction of 35%, having stopped his statin. A
> 35% reduction in
> LDL would be considered a therapeutic 'success,' for
> the statinators
> amongst us.
>
> So, without a statin Bill Clinton's LDL fell by 35%,
> then he had a heart
> attack. Forgive me for saying this William T. Sherman,
> but to my mind
> this would appear to suggest that a falling LDL level
> is a risk factor
> for CHD - as clearly demonstrated in the Framingham
> study, amongst others.
>
> In the unforgiving logical prison that I inhabit, the
> parable of Bill
> Clinton would not seem to be a warning against
> stopping statins. It
> seems more likely to be a warning that when your LDL
> level falls, you
> are in serious danger of suffering a heart attack.
> However, I tend to
> find that one's interpretation of events can be
> clouded by external
> funding issues.
>
> Anyway, thank you to William T. Sherman for reminding
> us that 'The
> future coronary health of the American public depends
> upon Baby Boomers
> and subsequent generations taking all of their
> cardioprotective
> medications for life.'
>
> There is just no answer to that - at least not before
> the children have
> safely gone to bed.
>
>
> fairuse
> www.redflagsweekly.com
>
| |
| mmlevy46@hotmail.com 2005-08-07, 6:04 pm |
| the 33% figure you quote--is that relative risk benefit or absolute
risk benefit? thanks
| |
|
|
Bill wrote:
> Many people have as strong a belief in how good statins are as the people here
> believe how bad they are. Neither need to be paid to write about it.
>
> The best way to get answers is through scientific trials and let the trials
> speak for themselves.
>
> Bill
What I do is not 'belief'. It is a WARNING. Do not take your doctor's
word without doing some investigating yourself.
If the doctors (of those who post) knew what the adverse effects were
and how they are manifested we wouldn't see query after query after
query on these newsgroups. Year after year after year. One person after
another into the thousands with PREVENTABLE statin injury. Some of this
injury lingering years after stopping the statin. Some researchers now
saying; statins may be triggering PARKINSON'S, musclular dystrophies,
CPT2 and other metabolic disorders, Multiple Sclerosis & Guillan Barre
Syndrome like disorders.
It's all here:
An 86 page PDF which you can download; primarily clincial studies from
PUBMED. All on statin ADVERSE EFFECTS. More every day as finally...the
injured are being listened to and researchers like Dr. Golomb, Dr.
Baker, Dr. Tarnopolosky, Dr. Vladutiu, Dr. Phillips, Dr. di Mauro are
being funded to find out__what__doctors like Steve Harris refused to
acknowledge.
http://www.freewebs.com/stoppe d_our_statins/StatinFAQ_031305
wTOCv4.pdf
More pertinent information; also included in the above PDF:
Phillips PS, Phillips CT, Sullivan MJ, Naviaux RK, Haas RH.
Abstract
Statin myotoxicity is associated with changes in the cardiopulmonary
function.
Atherosclerosis. 2004 Nov;177(1):183-8.
PMID: 15488882 [PubMed - in process]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en trez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d
b=pubmed&...
Dr. Beatrice Golomb
Principal Investigator
UCSD Statin Study
http://medicine.ucsd.edu/SES/i ndex.htm
e-mail: statinst...@ucsd.edu
Dr. Paul Phillips
Head, Interventional Cardiology
Scripps Mercy Hospital
San Diego, CA
http://www.impostertrial.com
(Is Myopathy Part of Statin Therapy?)
e-mail: inqu...@impostertrial.com
Statins and Women:
"Do cholesterol lowering drugs benefit women?"
http://www.medicalconsumers.or g/pages/WomenandCholesterol-Lo
weringDru...
http://www.medicalconsumers.or g/pages/newsletter.html
We've been bamboozled (about cholesterol drugs)
>From Newsday, July 2004:
http://healthyskepticism.org/public...medline/2004/07 06.htm
"The risk for total mortality was not lower in women treated with
lipid-lowering drugs, regardless of whether they had prior
cardiovascular disease or not," Dr. Judith M.E. Walsh and Dr. Michael
Pignone wrote.
Do statins have a role in primary prevention?
http://www.ti.ubc.ca/pages/let ter48.htm
"What is the evidence of benefit for primary prevention in women?
There were 10,990 women in the primary prevention trials (28% of the
total). Only coronary events were reported for women, but when these
were pooled they were not reduced by statin therapy, RR 0.98
[0.85-1.12]. Thus the coronary benefit in primary prevention trials
appears to be limited to men,..."
~~~~~~~~~~
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> "outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:1123440602.960630.319780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| |
|
| In article <1123441335.664347.238990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Poppy
- San Francisco Bay Area" <GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
> I have been hearing about side effects from taking statins, in my
> stroke group. I would like accurate info about whether they are worth
> the risk.
Poppy,
I advise you to read the following book since it contains some very
important information about statins. I only wish that I had read the book
before I took the first statin pill:
WHAT YOU MUST KNOW ABUT STATIN DRUGS AND THEIR NATURAL ALTERNATIVES
by Jay S. Cohen, M.D.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
| |
|
|
"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1123454597.769718.218020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bill wrote:
>
>
>
> What I do is not 'belief'. It is a WARNING.
They are not inconsistent. I suspect you do believe that statins have serious
side effects and these are not being made public enough. I suspect the writer
of the original artical believes that people are not being sufficiently warned
about the dangers of stopping statins.
Bill
> Do not take your doctor's
> word without doing some investigating yourself.
>
> If the doctors (of those who post) knew what the adverse effects were
> and how they are manifested we wouldn't see query after query after
> query on these newsgroups. Year after year after year. One person after
> another into the thousands with PREVENTABLE statin injury. Some of this
> injury lingering years after stopping the statin. Some researchers now
> saying; statins may be triggering PARKINSON'S, musclular dystrophies,
> CPT2 and other metabolic disorders, Multiple Sclerosis & Guillan Barre
> Syndrome like disorders.
>
> It's all here:
>
> An 86 page PDF which you can download; primarily clincial studies from
> PUBMED. All on statin ADVERSE EFFECTS. More every day as finally...the
> injured are being listened to and researchers like Dr. Golomb, Dr.
> Baker, Dr. Tarnopolosky, Dr. Vladutiu, Dr. Phillips, Dr. di Mauro are
> being funded to find out__what__doctors like Steve Harris refused to
> acknowledge.
>
> http://www.freewebs.com/stoppe d_our_statins/StatinFAQ_031305
> wTOCv4.pdf
>
>
> More pertinent information; also included in the above PDF:
>
> Phillips PS, Phillips CT, Sullivan MJ, Naviaux RK, Haas RH.
> Abstract
> Statin myotoxicity is associated with changes in the cardiopulmonary
> function.
> Atherosclerosis. 2004 Nov;177(1):183-8.
> PMID: 15488882 [PubMed - in process]
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en trez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d
> b=pubmed&...
>
> Dr. Beatrice Golomb
> Principal Investigator
> UCSD Statin Study
> http://medicine.ucsd.edu/SES/i ndex.htm
> e-mail: statinst...@ucsd.edu
>
> Dr. Paul Phillips
> Head, Interventional Cardiology
> Scripps Mercy Hospital
> San Diego, CA
> http://www.impostertrial.com
> (Is Myopathy Part of Statin Therapy?)
> e-mail: inqu...@impostertrial.com
>
> Statins and Women:
> "Do cholesterol lowering drugs benefit women?"
> http://www.medicalconsumers.or g/pages/WomenandCholesterol-Lo
> weringDru...
> http://www.medicalconsumers.or g/pages/newsletter.html
>
> We've been bamboozled (about cholesterol drugs)
> http://healthyskepticism.org/public...medline/2004/07 06.htm
> "The risk for total mortality was not lower in women treated with
> lipid-lowering drugs, regardless of whether they had prior
> cardiovascular disease or not," Dr. Judith M.E. Walsh and Dr. Michael
> Pignone wrote.
>
> Do statins have a role in primary prevention?
> http://www.ti.ubc.ca/pages/let ter48.htm
> "What is the evidence of benefit for primary prevention in women?
> There were 10,990 women in the primary prevention trials (28% of the
> total). Only coronary events were reported for women, but when these
> were pooled they were not reduced by statin therapy, RR 0.98
> [0.85-1.12]. Thus the coronary benefit in primary prevention trials
> appears to be limited to men,..."
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
| |
|
| Statins lower CoQ10 levels.
A much better way towards a good cardiovascluar system is to provide
nutrition that produces collagen. Dr. Matthias Rath M.D. of Germany
believes too much colesterol is produced as a reaction to the inability
to produce collagen. Our veins are made in part of collagen and
colesterol acts as putty to fill in the cracks in our veins. As long
as a person's diet is lacking in collagen producing nutrients the body
will keep filling in the cracks with cholesterol until a blockage
creates a heart attack, or a stroke. Vitamin C, Lysine and Proline are
his favorite nutrients for collagen health
Study Design:
Ten patients between the ages of 41-68 years old and with heart failure
took part in a pilot study conducted over a period of six months. The
patients took a daily dosage of specific micronutrients. They continued
to take the medications prescribed by their physicians. The degree of
heart failure was documented for every patient, using standards set by
the New York Heart Association (NYHA scale).
At the beginning of the study, seven out of 10 patients suffered
extensive impairment of cardiovascular health (Class 3 on the NYHA
scale). Three patients reported moderate limitation of their physical
activity (Class 2 on the NYHA scale).
Heart failure classification according to the New York Heart
Association (NYHA):
Class 1 = No problems with normal physical activity
Class 2 = Moderate limitation of physical activity
Class 3 = Extensive limitation of physical activity
Class 4 = Bedridden
In 50% of patients, no more problems appeared with normal physical
activity. Twenty percent of participants reported only slight
limitation of physical performance. No improvement was noted in two
patients who did not adhere thoroughly to the vitamin treatment; they
took it irregularly or not at all.
http://www.drrathresearch.org/clini...artfailure.html
http://debunkbigpharma.blognation.us/blog
http://www.drrathresearch.org/
| |
| Jim Chinnis 2005-08-09, 11:55 am |
| mmlevy46@hotmail.com wrote in part:
>the 33% figure you quote--is that relative risk benefit or absolute
>risk benefit? thanks
Even in a study lasting a few years, it would be impossible to get
thousands of subjects who had higher than 33% chance of a stroke
during the study!
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
| |
|
|
"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:t6jhf1hcfmiqlco0crt0pgdvrosk629i23@4ax.com...
> mmlevy46@hotmail.com wrote in part:
>
>
> Even in a study lasting a few years, it would be impossible to get
> thousands of subjects who had higher than 33% chance of a stroke
> during the study!
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
I was on Lovastatin. By the time I got off of it I was almost paralyzed. I
would die before I got back on that stuff.
--
J.C.
| |
| Jim Chinnis 2005-08-09, 11:55 am |
| "J.C." <ariverrunsthruit@hotmail.com> wrote in part:
>
>"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>news:t6jhf1hcfmiqlco0crt0pgdvrosk629i23@4ax.com...
>
>I was on Lovastatin. By the time I got off of it I was almost paralyzed. I
>would die before I got back on that stuff.
Non sequitor. Are you in the right thread?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2005-08-09, 5:59 pm |
| Per J.C.:
>I was on Lovastatin. By the time I got off of it I was almost paralyzed.
How long were you on it and how rapidly did the symptoms progress?
--
PeteCresswell
| |
|
|
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.z.invalid> wrote in message
news:hc2if1tld485k471h0dghq4hnkrmg0aakl@4ax.com...
> Per J.C.:
>
> How long were you on it and how rapidly did the symptoms progress?
> --
> PeteCresswell
About a total of 18 months. I first noticed a pain in my left shoulder. Then
it got to where my left arm would hurt if I did something like pick up a
piece of trash from the yard, or pull a dead limb from a tree. Then it got
to where just a sudden movement, like flynching when a bee got close or just
about anything like that would bring me to tears it would hurt so bad. After
about 7 months the same thing started with my right side. Along about that
time my wife, who is a nurse, read in one of the medical alert things they
get that statins can cause serious side effects in certain people. I stopped
taking Lovastatin immediately and it took about two years to get myself back
to normal. The doctor put me on some kind of substitute medicine. I just
threw it away and never got the refills. I've had 8 semi-annual checkups
since then and so far A-OK.
--
J.C.
| |
|
|
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per J.C.:
>
> How long were you on it and how rapidly did the symptoms progress?
> --
> PeteCresswell
Try your questions here Pete:
statinstudy@ucsd.edu
http://medicine.ucsd.edu/SES/index.htm
WHAT TO DO IF YOU THINK YOU ARE HAVING AN ADVERSE EFFECT
1. If you have muscle pain or weakness, or brown urine (or change in
color of urine), call your doctor immediately; you will probably need
to get a "CK" test.
2. For any symptom that is bothersome to you, call your doctor and
and schedule an appointment to discuss the symptom.
3. If you think the effect may be caused by the drug, ask your
doctor about doing a test in which you stop the drug, or reduce the
dose; see if the effect improves. If you and your doctor deem it is
safe to do so, you might see if the symptoms return or worsen upon
resuming the drug (sometimes a different statin drug or a lower dose,
or a non-statin drug are all that are needed). If the doctor is
unwilling to reduce the dose, and you are willing to try to increase
the dose, you might increase the dose and see if the symptoms get
worse. If the symptoms are severe, it is best to avoid this. If your
doctor is very skeptical that the effect could result from the drug,
and you are willing, you can do an "n-of-1" trial in which, on the
doctor's order the pharmacy gives you placebo or drug, for at least two
months, and neither you nor your doctor are told which. If you can say
when the problem gets worse or better, this may help persuade your
doctor. Know that it is your health and it is always your choice
whether to take a drug. If your physician does not take your concerns
and preferences into account, consider looking for a different
physician.
4. If the symptoms seem related to the drug (especially if the above
testing suggests a connection) you and your doctor will need to work
together to decide whether the need for the drug exceeds the problems
and effects on quality of life that the drug produces. The final
choice is yours.
5. Please contact us and let us know about your side effects; the
more we know, the more we can help others.
6. Some doctors are not familiar with the evidence that statin drugs
or cholesterol drugs can cause problems with memory, pain,
irritability, or sleep. You may need to educate them, and we are happy
to help.
Share Your Experience
We are seeking to get information from people who have had adverse
responses to statins or to other cholesterol-lowering drugs, and also
from people who have done well on these drugs. We can learn from this
information, perhaps gaining a better understanding of who may be at
risk and who will do well with statins; and what to expect in people
who develop adverse effects (e.g. how quick or long recovery may take;
what factors predict or facilitate recovery).
Share your experience with us, via a questionnaire. This will help us
understand peoples' experiences with statins, so that we may share the
information with others. Currently, you can download the appropriate
forms to complete our questionnaire by visiting Contribute; we are in
the process of completing an online (paperless) version of the
questionnaire. If you are interested in contributing to our research
with information about your experiences on statins and have trouble
with the downloadable forms, we would love to hear from you via e-mail
or telephone (we will call you back to administer or mail the
questionnaire).
Our e-mail address is: statinstudy@ucsd.edu
Our phone number is: (858) 558-4950 x 215
Our mailing address is:
UCSD Statin Effects Study
9500 Gilman Dr. Dept. 0995
San Diego, CA 92093-0995
| |
| Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com 2005-08-09, 5:59 pm |
|
Jim Chinnis wrote:
> mmlevy46@hotmail.com wrote in part:
>
>
> Even in a study lasting a few years, it would be impossible to get
> thousands of subjects who had higher than 33% chance of a stroke
> during the study!
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
COMMENT:
Right you are. It was a relative benefit. It prevented a third of the
strokes that were set to happen, but only a small % of patients will
have second strokes, even in a secondary study.
SBH
| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2005-08-09, 6:00 pm |
| Per J.C.:
>I've had 8 semi-annual checkups
>since then and so far A-OK.
Any idea what your lipid numbers were before the statin, during, and now?
--
PeteCresswell
| |
|
|
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.z.invalid> wrote in message
news:a9fif1pee5g8f67hg13inji7klhf4ob5qh@4ax.com...
> Per J.C.:
>
> Any idea what your lipid numbers were before the statin, during, and now?
> --
> PeteCresswell
No sir. Not a clue.
--
J.C.
| |
|
|
| mmlevy46@hotmail.com 2005-08-09, 6:00 pm |
| I do not have the #'s from the study--if you do could you determine the
absolute risk, which are always more informative than the relative risk
#'s...thanks,
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
>
> COMMENT:
>
> Right you are. It was a relative benefit. It prevented a third of the
> strokes that were set to happen, but only a small % of patients will
> have second strokes, even in a secondary study.
>
> SBH
| |
| George Conklin 2005-08-09, 6:00 pm |
|
"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1123611797.121721.263390@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
paralyzed.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Try your questions here Pete:
> statinstudy@ucsd.edu
>
> http://medicine.ucsd.edu/SES/index.htm
>
>
> WHAT TO DO IF YOU THINK YOU ARE HAVING AN ADVERSE EFFECT
>
> 1. If you have muscle pain or weakness, or brown urine (or change in
> color of urine), call your doctor immediately; you will probably need
> to get a "CK" test.
> 2. For any symptom that is bothersome to you, call your doctor and
> and schedule an appointment to discuss the symptom.
> 3. If you think the effect may be caused by the drug, ask your
> doctor about doing a test in which you stop the drug, or reduce the
> dose; see if the effect improves. If you and your doctor deem it is
> safe to do so, you might see if the symptoms return or worsen upon
> resuming the drug (sometimes a different statin drug or a lower dose,
> or a non-statin drug are all that are needed). If the doctor is
> unwilling to reduce the dose, and you are willing to try to increase
> the dose, you might increase the dose and see if the symptoms get
> worse. If the symptoms are severe, it is best to avoid this. If your
> doctor is very skeptical that the effect could result from the drug,
> and you are willing, you can do an "n-of-1" trial in which, on the
> doctor's order the pharmacy gives you placebo or drug, for at least two
> months, and neither you nor your doctor are told which. If you can say
> when the problem gets worse or better, this may help persuade your
> doctor. Know that it is your health and it is always your choice
> whether to take a drug. If your physician does not take your concerns
> and preferences into account, consider looking for a different
> physician.
> 4. If the symptoms seem related to the drug (especially if the above
> testing suggests a connection) you and your doctor will need to work
> together to decide whether the need for the drug exceeds the problems
> and effects on quality of life that the drug produces. The final
> choice is yours.
> 5. Please contact us and let us know about your side effects; the
> more we know, the more we can help others.
> 6. Some doctors are not familiar with the evidence that statin drugs
> or cholesterol drugs can cause problems with memory, pain,
> irritability, or sleep. You may need to educate them, and we are happy
> to help.
>
> Share Your Experience
> We are seeking to get information from people who have had adverse
> responses to statins or to other cholesterol-lowering drugs, and also
> from people who have done well on these drugs. We can learn from this
> information, perhaps gaining a better understanding of who may be at
> risk and who will do well with statins; and what to expect in people
> who develop adverse effects (e.g. how quick or long recovery may take;
> what factors predict or facilitate recovery).
>
> Share your experience with us, via a questionnaire. This will help us
> understand peoples' experiences with statins, so that we may share the
> information with others. Currently, you can download the appropriate
> forms to complete our questionnaire by visiting Contribute; we are in
> the process of completing an online (paperless) version of the
> questionnaire. If you are interested in contributing to our research
> with information about your experiences on statins and have trouble
> with the downloadable forms, we would love to hear from you via e-mail
> or telephone (we will call you back to administer or mail the
> questionnaire).
>
> Our e-mail address is: statinstudy@ucsd.edu
>
> Our phone number is: (858) 558-4950 x 215
>
> Our mailing address is:
>
> UCSD Statin Effects Study
> 9500 Gilman Dr. Dept. 0995
> San Diego, CA 92093-0995
>
And what about the vastly increased chance of a cancer diagnosis in the
year following the start of statins? If you get cancer, what do you do?
| |
| listener 2005-08-09, 6:00 pm |
| "George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:fA9Ke.3176$Wi6.304@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> "zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:1123611797.121721.263390@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> paralyzed.
>
> And what about the vastly increased chance of a cancer diagnosis
> in the
> year following the start of statins? If you get cancer, what do you
> do?
>
>
Ummm....see an oncologist?
("vastly increased chance"?)
L.
| |
| Sharon Hope 2005-08-09, 10:59 pm |
| Pete,
You mentioned having your gall bladder removed.
Were you having any muscle pain since starting on the Zocor? Have you had
regular blood tests checking CK?
There are many reasons, I suppose, for having a gall bladder removed, but
the concern that spurred my question is this:
Of the people who suffered rhabdomyolysis, a potentially deadly adverse
effect of statins, their medical records all followed a progression of
adverse effects:
- Muscle pain, then
- gout, then
- gall bladder removal, then
- kidney and liver problems, then
- rhabdomyolysis.
For a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) on Statin Adverse Effects, see:
http://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our...31305wTOCv4.pdf
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.z.invalid> wrote in message
news:hl8df1d3bndhhj3qf7uhqnuduioc99hjha@4ax.com...
> Per Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area:
>
> I'm not qualified to answer the question directly, but can say that my
> wife and
> I took two different paths. She modified her diet/exercise and raised
> her HDL
> from 30 to 60. Haven't seen her lipid test results sheet so I can't say
> what
> her computed risk factor is.
>
> The cardiologist who was treating me was a good friend of my late brother
> before
> he died of a familial hypercholesterolemia-induced heart attack.
>
> Looking back, I probably should have sought out somebody more neutral, but
> as it
> is, I went on Zocor per his advice. However stuff's expensive and, even
> though the risks are probably acceptable to most people; there are still
> risks
> (and, probably, side effects).
>
>
> In retrospect, I think I'd rather have tried diet/exercise under competent
> supervision and then gone on a statin if that did not work out in some
> reasonable timeframe.
>
> In fact, having just had my gall bladder out, I'm taking advantage of that
> dietary cusp to try to mimic my spouse's eating. After about six months
> of
> that, I plan to get a blood lipid profile and see what my GP says. Maybe
> it's
> not too late to get off of the stuff without increasing my risk factor.
> --
> PeteCresswell
| |
| Sharon Hope 2005-08-09, 10:59 pm |
| There are also many of us who have evidence, learned through personal
experience, just how devastating the statin adverse effects can be.
Quite separate from those who like to debate their 'statin beliefs' - these
are people who have become disabled from the statin adverse effects, with
the damage lasting for years after halting the statins. Many have lost
their livelihoods and their homes. Some have lost their families.
My husband is one of those who was disabled, in his mid-50's due to statin
adverse effects. Twice a corporate CEO, he took Lipitor, 10 mg/day, for 4
years and during that time he developed muscle pain, muscle wasting, chronic
excruciating pain, chronic fatigue, elevated CK, mitochondrial damage that
interferes with respiration at the cellular level, cognitive damage,
confusion, multiple witnessed episodes of Transient Global Amnesia,
short-term memory loss (measured at below the 1 percentile), aphasia, and
peripheral neuropathy.
He has been extensively tested and studied by expert specialists who are
leaders in their respective fields, and medical school department heads at
several major universities. His case is included in two statin studies, and
two statin books.
His case was written up in a Smart Money Magazine article, the Lipitor
Dilemma, a reprint of which can be seen at:
http://www.n3inc.com/SmartMoneyReprint_103003Web.pdf
He was mentioned in a Los Angeles Times Sunday Magazine article, a reprint
at:
http://www.medicationsense.com/la_times_on_cohen.html
Three and a half years after stopping the Lipitor, he is still disabled and
debilitated, with chronic pain, chronic fatigue, myopathy, and the inability
to expend more than 20 minutes of any exercise in a day without causing a
cascade of dying muscle cells, apoptosis, which triggers painful gout. His
cognitive damage persists, absent the witnessed amnesia, since he halted the
statins, but has improved with weekly cognitive rehabilitation therapy to
the degree that verifies the elimination of all possible causes other than
the Lipitor.
For those with questions about adverse effects of statin drugs, including
Atorvastatin (aka Lipitor), fluvastatin (aka Lescol), lovastatin (aka
Mevacor), pravastatin (aka Pravachol), simvastatin (aka Zocor),
rosuvastatin (aka Crestor), and cerivastatin (Baycol), and now Vytorin
(Zocor and Zetia (ezetimibe/simvastatin) combination), available at:
http://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our...31305wTOCv4.pdf
I spend time compiling the FAQ, which is largely published medical journal
abstracts on statin adverse effects, in the hope that no other family will
have to experience these PREVENTABLE adverse effects.
Last updated in March, the most recent statin adverse effects are not yet
included in the FAQ. For example, statin neuropathy in diabetics was
discovered, masquerading as diabetic neuropathy.
Also not yet included are the recent reports that statins are now known to
"unmask" some very serious conditions that had some genetic predisposition
but had remained dormant in the patient until the statins somehow triggered
them. These conditions that statins are known to "unmask" include
Parkinson's Disease, Huntington's Disease, ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's Disease),
Cerebellar Atrophy, and others.
The statin adverse effects in the FAQ are grouped by category. Often,
people who recognize one adverse effect from the statin, typically muscle
pain, are amazed when they recognize other problems that they are
experiencing, but had not related to the statin. Here is the Table of
Contents from the FAQ:
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) about Statin Adverse
Effects
Table of Contents
Frequently Asked Questions about Statin Adverse Effects
................................................. 3
Introduction........................................................................................................................
3
What are the names of the Statin
drugs?.........................................................................
4
What is the "Statin Study"?
.............................................................................................
4
Where can I look to find information on research studies of statin drugs?
..................... 5
Why does my physician have such a difficult time believing that my physical
problems
might be an adverse effect of Lipitor or one of the other statins?
................................... 5
OK, I understand the doctor's need to read clinical study results, but where
can I find
out what other people are experiencing in plain language, and maybe share my
experiences?...................................................................................................................
7
Are there any books on the
topic?...................................................................................
7
What are the Liptior warnings and side-effects listed by the manufacturer on
the
physicians'
information?.................................................................................................
8
What are the Lipitor Adverse Events in Placebo-Controlled Studies listed by
Pfizer
in the Physician's information?
...................................................................................
8
What are the Lipitor Averse Events reported in patients treated with Lipitor
in
clinical trials listed by Pfizer in the Physician's information?
.................................... 8
What are the Lipitor Adverse events associated with Lipitor therapy reported
since
market introduction, that are not listed above, listed by Pfizer in the
Physician's
information?................................................................................................................
9
REPORTING ADVERSE EFFECTS FROM STATINS
.................................................... 9
Where should I report adverse effects from
statins?....................................................... 9
Report to the
FDA.......................................................................................................
9
Report to the Statin Study
............................................................................................
9
OK, what should I take to my doctor?
...........................................................................
10
NERVE DAMAGE &
STATINS.....................................................................................
10
Frequently Asked Question: What medical research studies have been done on
Statins
and Nerve Damage that I can bring to my doctor's attention?
...................................... 10
MEMORY LOSS & STATINS
.........................................................................................
15
Frequently Asked Question: What medical research studies have been done on
Statins
and Memory Loss, or other mental problems that I can bring to my doctor's
attention?
.......................................................................................................................................
15
AMNESIA &
STATINS...................................................................................................
20
Frequently Asked Question: Amnesia is one of the Lipitor side effects
reported by
Pfizer on the Physician's Information, where can I find out more about
people who
have had amnesia episodes while taking the drug?
....................................................... 20
Lipitor, Thief of Memory, by Duane Graveline M.D.
................................................ 20
Australian Adverse Drug Reactions
Bulletin............................................................ 20
CHEST PAIN &
STATINS..............................................................................................
21
Frequently Asked Question: Chest pain, that my cardiologist cannot explain
via
angiogram, stress test, EEG or EKG, is one of the side-effects I see is
reported by
many people. Is there any information on chest pain associated with
statins?............. 21
STATINS & MITOCHONDRIAL
CYTOPATHY,......................................................... 23
COENZYME Q10 (UBIQUINONE) DEFICIENCY CAUSED BY STATINS.............. 23
Do statins cause a CoQ10
deficiency?..........................................................................
23
Merck Patent application stating that statins interfere with CoQ10 and that
deficiency causes
problems.......................................................................................
24
Introduction to the Citizen's petition to the
FDA...................................................... 24
CARNITINE DEFICIENCY CAUSED BY STATINS
.................................................... 29
Can statins cause carnitine
deficiency?.........................................................................
29
JOINT PAIN AND
STATINS..........................................................................................
29
Frequently Asked Question: Can statins have something to do with my joint
pain? ... 29
QUITTING
STATINS......................................................................................................
30
Frequently Asked Question: Can it be dangerous to just stop taking statins?
............... 30
STATIN BIRTH
DEFECTS.............................................................................................
30
Frequently Asked Question: Is statin intake during pregnancy dangerous for
unborn
children?.......................................................................................................................
30
VIOLENCE AND LOW CHOLESTEROL
...................................................................... 30
Frequently Asked Questions: Can it be the statins making me so irritable and
prone to
angry outbursts?
.............................................................................................................
30
IMMUNE SYSTEM AND
STATINS..............................................................................
31
Frequently Asked Question: Can statins depress my immune
system?........................ 31
Could a depressed immune system lead to infection?
................................................... 32
STATINS AND CANCER
................................................................................................
33
Frequently Asked Question: What are the cancer rates for people on
statins?............. 33
Women and
statins....................................................................................................
34
ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION (ED) AND STATINS
....................................................... 36
Frequently Asked Question: Can statins interfere with my sex
life?............................ 36
LUPUS-LIKE SYMPTOMS AND STATINS
.................................................................. 38
Frequently Asked Question: Can statins cause Lupus
symptoms?............................... 38
MYOPATHY AND
STATINS.........................................................................................
40
Frequently Asked Question: Do statins cause muscle damage, muscle pain,
myopathy,
myositis, and muscle cell death (apoptosis) with or without elevated CK?
.................. 40
RHABDOMYOLYSIS AND STATINS
...........................................................................
64
Frequently Asked Question: Which statins cause deadly Rhabdomyolysis?
................ 64
STATINS AND LIVER OR KIDNEY
DAMAGE.......................................................... 78
Frequently Asked Question: Do statins damage liver or kidneys?
................................ 78
ELDERLY AND STATINS
..............................................................................................
80
Frequently Asked Question: Should people over 70 take
statins?................................ 80
IS THERE AN INDUSTRY BIAS IN STATIN
PUBLICATIONS?............................... 82
Why are most studies so positive about statins, and why are there relatively
so few
published that show problems? Do Medical Journals agree that there is bias
in drugindustry
funded medical
studies?..................................................................................
82
"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
news:OSvJe.107$fk6.38@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> Many people have as strong a belief in how good statins are as the people
> here believe how bad they are. Neither need to be paid to write about it.
>
> The best way to get answers is through scientific trials and let the
> trials speak for themselves.
>
> Bill
>
>
> "outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:1123440602.960630.319780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
| |
| Sharon Hope 2005-08-09, 10:59 pm |
| Perfect example of a person who has developed a "belief system about
statins" and that "belief" causes him to reject the input of people who have
experienced actual statin adverse effects - simply because their experience
and their doctors' diagnoses do not fit that "belief" which is being blindly
(and deafly) followed.
The only way those with such firmly entrenched beliefs can even begin to
acknowledge the statin damaged is by assigning them a "counter belief" and
then debating between that straw-dog imagined belief and their own -
carrying on elaborate philosophical debates.
Never will they acknowledge the statin pain, statin damage, statin
disability, nor will they deal with the symptoms. The only feel safe
telling the statin disabled. "I suspect you do believe that statins [fill in
the ridiculous, but easy to debate accusation here]."
Never will you ever catch these statin 'true believers' in saying anything
remotely like, "Gosh, I really hope you feel better someday. How sad that
you lost your ability to support yourself at 53, and you lost your home, and
your medical insurance. We really ought to see if we can warn others before
they experience these same PREVENTABLE side effects from statins. Maybe,
too, there might be a way to fund some research into treating people to
recovery when they do experience such drastic side effects." No, they seem
to blame the victim for the "beliefs" they have projected upon them in their
own imaginations.
It is as if they might arrive on the scene of a train wreck, ignore the
shrieks for help, and stand there in the midst of the wreckage suspecting
that these vocal folks must be harboring anti-transportation beliefs.
"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
news:ZowJe.115$fk6.52@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:1123454597.769718.218020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> They are not inconsistent. I suspect you do believe that statins have
> serious side effects and these are not being made public enough. I suspect
> the writer of the original artical believes that people are not being
> sufficiently warned about the dangers of stopping statins.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
| |
|
|
"Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in message
news:afydnZ2dnZ2uU3eqnZ2dnTbvZN-dnZ2dRVn-yZ2dnZ0@comcast.com...
> Perfect example of a person who has developed a "belief system about
> statins" and that "belief" causes him to reject the input of people who have
> experienced actual statin adverse effects - simply because their experience
> and their doctors' diagnoses do not fit that "belief" which is being blindly
> (and deafly) followed.
>
> The only way those with such firmly entrenched beliefs can even begin to
> acknowledge the statin damaged is by assigning them a "counter belief" and
> then debating between that straw-dog imagined belief and their own -
> carrying on elaborate philosophical debates.
>
> Never will they acknowledge the statin pain, statin damage, statin
> disability, nor will they deal with the symptoms. The only feel safe
> telling the statin disabled. "I suspect you do believe that statins [fill in
> the ridiculous, but easy to debate accusation here]."
>
> Never will you ever catch these statin 'true believers' in saying anything
> remotely like, "Gosh, I really hope you feel better someday. How sad that
> you lost your ability to support yourself at 53, and you lost your home, and
> your medical insurance. We really ought to see if we can warn others before
> they experience these same PREVENTABLE side effects from statins. Maybe,
> too, there might be a way to fund some research into treating people to
> recovery when they do experience such drastic side effects." No, they seem
> to blame the victim for the "beliefs" they have projected upon them in their
> own imaginations.
>
> It is as if they might arrive on the scene of a train wreck, ignore the
> shrieks for help, and stand there in the midst of the wreckage suspecting
> that these vocal folks must be harboring anti-transportation beliefs.
>
>
No one here denies that statins have bad effects and in very rare cases -
perhaps one in a million - permanetly debilating ones. So you are wrong again
if you imply that I do not acknowledge that.
You are the only one here who will not acknolwadge that statins may a stop
debilating effects in some cases and may save lives.
You are also often very wrong many times on any evidence you present and are
simply unable to think rationally about this subject.
Bill
> "Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
> news:ZowJe.115$fk6.52@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
| |
|
| OK. Your point is that you have experienced the pain of statin damage. That
makes you not qualified to be an impartial judge. In fact your repeated
emphasis of this reinforces this point.
That means any conclusions you reach are biased and any arguments you make are
biased. And therefore nothing you say should be taken at face value simply
because of the pain you point out.
Bill
"Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in message
news:tvadnZMwyvaH82TfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> There are also many of us who have evidence, learned through personal
> experience, just how devastating the statin adverse effects can be.
>
> Quite separate from those who like to debate their 'statin beliefs' - these
> are people who have become disabled from the statin adverse effects, with
> the damage lasting for years after halting the statins. Many have lost
> their livelihoods and their homes. Some have lost their families.
>
> My husband is one of those who was disabled, in his mid-50's due to statin
> adverse effects. Twice a corporate CEO, he took Lipitor, 10 mg/day, for 4
> years and during that time he developed muscle pain, muscle wasting, chronic
> excruciating pain, chronic fatigue, elevated CK, mitochondrial damage that
> interferes with respiration at the cellular level, cognitive damage,
> confusion, multiple witnessed episodes of Transient Global Amnesia,
> short-term memory loss (measured at below the 1 percentile), aphasia, and
> peripheral neuropathy.
>
> He has been extensively tested and studied by expert specialists who are
> leaders in their respective fields, and medical school department heads at
> several major universities. His case is included in two statin studies, and
> two statin books.
>
> His case was written up in a Smart Money Magazine article, the Lipitor
> Dilemma, a reprint of which can be seen at:
> http://www.n3inc.com/SmartMoneyReprint_103003Web.pdf
>
> He was mentioned in a Los Angeles Times Sunday Magazine article, a reprint
> at:
> http://www.medicationsense.com/la_times_on_cohen.html
>
> Three and a half years after stopping the Lipitor, he is still disabled and
> debilitated, with chronic pain, chronic fatigue, myopathy, and the inability
> to expend more than 20 minutes of any exercise in a day without causing a
> cascade of dying muscle cells, apoptosis, which triggers painful gout. His
> cognitive damage persists, absent the witnessed amnesia, since he halted the
> statins, but has improved with weekly cognitive rehabilitation therapy to
> the degree that verifies the elimination of all possible causes other than
> the Lipitor.
>
> For those with questions about adverse effects of statin drugs, including
> Atorvastatin (aka Lipitor), fluvastatin (aka Lescol), lovastatin (aka
> Mevacor), pravastatin (aka Pravachol), simvastatin (aka Zocor),
> rosuvastatin (aka Crestor), and cerivastatin (Baycol), and now Vytorin
> (Zocor and Zetia (ezetimibe/simvastatin) combination), available at:
>
> http://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our...31305wTOCv4.pdf
>
> I spend time compiling the FAQ, which is largely published medical journal
> abstracts on statin adverse effects, in the hope that no other family will
> have to experience these PREVENTABLE adverse effects.
>
> Last updated in March, the most recent statin adverse effects are not yet
> included in the FAQ. For example, statin neuropathy in diabetics was
> discovered, masquerading as diabetic neuropathy.
>
> Also not yet included are the recent reports that statins are now known to
> "unmask" some very serious conditions that had some genetic predisposition
> but had remained dormant in the patient until the statins somehow triggered
> them. These conditions that statins are known to "unmask" include
> Parkinson's Disease, Huntington's Disease, ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's Disease),
> Cerebellar Atrophy, and others.
>
> The statin adverse effects in the FAQ are grouped by category. Often,
> people who recognize one adverse effect from the statin, typically muscle
> pain, are amazed when they recognize other problems that they are
> experiencing, but had not related to the statin. Here is the Table of
> Contents from the FAQ:
>
> Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) about Statin Adverse
>
> Effects
>
> Table of Contents
>
> Frequently Asked Questions about Statin Adverse Effects
> ................................................ 3
>
> Introduction........................................................................................................................
> 3
>
> What are the names of the Statin
> drugs?.........................................................................
> 4
>
> What is the "Statin Study"?
> ............................................................................................
> 4
>
> Where can I look to find information on research studies of statin drugs?
> .................... 5
>
> Why does my physician have such a difficult time believing that my physical
> problems
>
> might be an adverse effect of Lipitor or one of the other statins?
> .................................. 5
>
> OK, I understand the doctor's need to read clinical study results, but where
> can I find
>
> out what other people are experiencing in plain language, and maybe share my
>
> experiences?...................................................................................................................
> 7
>
> Are there any books on the
> topic?...................................................................................
> 7
>
> What are the Liptior warnings and side-effects listed by the manufacturer on
> the
>
> physicians'
> information?.................................................................................................
> 8
>
> What are the Lipitor Adverse Events in Placebo-Controlled Studies listed by
> Pfizer
>
> in the Physician's information?
> ..................................................................................
> 8
>
> What are the Lipitor Averse Events reported in patients treated with Lipitor
> in
>
> clinical trials listed by Pfizer in the Physician's information?
> ................................... 8
>
> What are the Lipitor Adverse events associated with Lipitor therapy reported
> since
>
> market introduction, that are not listed above, listed by Pfizer in the
> Physician's
>
> information?................................................................................................................
> 9
>
> REPORTING ADVERSE EFFECTS FROM STATINS
> ................................................... 9
>
> Where should I report adverse effects from
> statins?....................................................... 9
>
> Report to the
> FDA.......................................................................................................
> 9
>
> Report to the Statin Study
> ...........................................................................................
> 9
>
> OK, what should I take to my doctor?
> ..........................................................................
> 10
>
> NERVE DAMAGE &
> STATINS.....................................................................................
> 10
>
> Frequently Asked Question: What medical research studies have been done on
> Statins
>
> and Nerve Damage that I can bring to my doctor's attention?
> ..................................... 10
>
> MEMORY LOSS & STATINS
> ........................................................................................
> 15
>
> Frequently Asked Question: What medical research studies have been done on
> Statins
>
> and Memory Loss, or other mental problems that I can bring to my doctor's
> attention?
>
> ......................................................................................................................................
> 15
>
> AMNESIA &
> STATINS...................................................................................................
> 20
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Amnesia is one of the Lipitor side effects
> reported by
>
> Pfizer on the Physician's Information, where can I find out more about
> people who
>
> have had amnesia episodes while taking the drug?
> ...................................................... 20
>
> Lipitor, Thief of Memory, by Duane Graveline M.D.
> ............................................... 20
>
> Australian Adverse Drug Reactions
> Bulletin............................................................ 20
>
> CHEST PAIN &
> STATINS..............................................................................................
> 21
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Chest pain, that my cardiologist cannot explain
> via
>
> angiogram, stress test, EEG or EKG, is one of the side-effects I see is
> reported by
>
> many people. Is there any information on chest pain associated with
> statins?............. 21
>
> STATINS & MITOCHONDRIAL
> CYTOPATHY,......................................................... 23
>
> COENZYME Q10 (UBIQUINONE) DEFICIENCY CAUSED BY STATINS.............. 23
>
> Do statins cause a CoQ10
> deficiency?..........................................................................
> 23
>
> Merck Patent application stating that statins interfere with CoQ10 and that
>
> deficiency causes
> problems.......................................................................................
> 24
>
> Introduction to the Citizen's petition to the
> FDA...................................................... 24
>
> CARNITINE DEFICIENCY CAUSED BY STATINS
> ................................................... 29
>
> Can statins cause carnitine
> deficiency?.........................................................................
> 29
>
> JOINT PAIN AND
> STATINS..........................................................................................
> 29
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Can statins have something to do with my joint
> pain? ... 29
>
> QUITTING
> STATINS......................................................................................................
> 30
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Can it be dangerous to just stop taking statins?
> .............. 30
>
> STATIN BIRTH
> DEFECTS.............................................................................................
> 30
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Is statin intake during pregnancy dangerous for
> unborn
>
> children?.......................................................................................................................
> 30
>
> VIOLENCE AND LOW CHOLESTEROL
> ..................................................................... 30
>
> Frequently Asked Questions: Can it be the statins making me so irritable and
> prone to
>
> angry outbursts?
> ............................................................................................................
> 30
>
> IMMUNE SYSTEM AND
> STATINS..............................................................................
> 31
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Can statins depress my immune
> system?........................ 31
>
> Could a depressed immune system lead to infection?
> .................................................. 32
>
> STATINS AND CANCER
> ...............................................................................................
> 33
>
> Frequently Asked Question: What are the cancer rates for people on
> statins?............. 33
>
> Women and
> statins....................................................................................................
> 34
>
> ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION (ED) AND STATINS
> ...................................................... 36
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Can statins interfere with my sex
> life?............................ 36
>
> LUPUS-LIKE SYMPTOMS AND STATINS
> ................................................................. 38
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Can statins cause Lupus
> symptoms?............................... 38
>
> MYOPATHY AND
> STATINS.........................................................................................
> 40
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Do statins cause muscle damage, muscle pain,
> myopathy,
>
> myositis, and muscle cell death (apoptosis) with or without elevated CK?
> ................. 40
>
> RHABDOMYOLYSIS AND STATINS
> ..........................................................................
> 64
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Which statins cause deadly Rhabdomyolysis?
> ............... 64
>
> STATINS AND LIVER OR KIDNEY
> DAMAGE.......................................................... 78
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Do statins damage liver or kidneys?
> ............................... 78
>
> ELDERLY AND STATINS
> .............................................................................................
> 80
>
> Frequently Asked Question: Should people over 70 take
> statins?................................ 80
>
> IS THERE AN INDUSTRY BIAS IN STATIN
> PUBLICATIONS?............................... 82
>
> Why are most studies so positive about statins, and why are there relatively
> so few
>
> published that show problems? Do Medical Journals agree that there is bias
> in drugindustry
>
> funded medical
> studies?..................................................................................
> 82
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
> news:OSvJe.107$fk6.38@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
| |
| Sharon Hope 2005-08-09, 10:59 pm |
|
"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
news:LyeKe.659$Zh2.590@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in message
> news:afydnZ2dnZ2uU3eqnZ2dnTbvZN-dnZ2dRVn-yZ2dnZ0@comcast.com...
>
> No one here denies that statins have bad effects and in very rare cases -
> perhaps one in a million - permanetly debilating ones. So you are wrong
> again if you imply that I do not acknowledge that.
>
I must have missed that acknowledgement of my husband's 7+ years of pain and
disability. Please point me to that post you made, I would like to print it
out and show it to him.
> You are the only one here who will not acknolwadge that statins may a stop
> debilating effects in some cases and may save lives.
>
> You are also often very wrong many times on any evidence you present and
> are simply unable to think rationally about this subject.
The citations I post are peer-reviewed published studies. Your problems
with those studies were not shared by the editorial panel approving their
publication.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
| |
| Sharon Hope 2005-08-10, 9:06 am |
| See, your "statin belief defense system" has once again kicked in,
1) preventing you from even understanding who has been disabled by statin
adverse effects
2) compelling you to once again assigning an imaginary position of
"impartial judge" to debate against, make a point that is only important in
your own mind against a phantom created in your own mind, because you need
to shore up your "statin belief system."
The rest of the readers, who are not blinded by a desperate need to protect
an irrational "statin belief system," understand the clear and simple
obvious fact that doing research on a topic in hopes of identifying a
treatment toward a cure for a loved one's suffering has nothing whatsoever
from being judgemental.
The rest of the readers, who are not blinded by a desperate need to protect
an irrational "statin belief system," understand that the OBVIOUS motivation
for my efforts is a bias for my husband's improved health, and a desire to
help other families avoid PREVENTABLE damage like his.
The rest of the readers can grasp the kind of damage that happens to the
entire family when only one of them is stricken by the statin. Husband,
father, son, brother, protector, breadwinner, hero, sweetheart, role model,
employer - all of these roles and the corresponding family and friends and
coworkers and employees are damaged by these disabling statin adverse
effects.
The rest of the readers understand that urgent quest to find out all it is
possible to understand about these adverse effects that have disabled a
loved one, so that anything that even hints at a future treatment to a cure
might not be missed.
The rest of the readers understand that knowing what to watch for makes them
safer.
Your all-consuming need to protect your "statin belief system" won't let you
understand the above, but trust me on this, others do.
"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
news:AHeKe.660$Zh2.437@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> OK. Your point is that you have experienced the pain of statin damage.
> That makes you not qualified to be an impartial judge. In fact your
> repeated emphasis of this reinforces this point.
>
> That means any conclusions you reach are biased and any arguments you make
> are biased. And therefore nothing you say should be taken at face value
> simply because of the pain you point out.
>
> Bill
> "Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in message
> news:tvadnZMwyvaH82TfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>
> | | |