Emergency services - Could Atlanta shootings have been prevented?

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Could Atlanta shootings have been prevented?

poboxdc@ix.netcom.com

2005-03-19, 6:10 pm

FREEZE! I JUST HAD MY NAILS DONE!

By Ann Coulter

How many people have to die before the country stops humoring
feminists? Last week, a defendant in a rape case, Brian Nichols,
wrested a gun from a female deputy in an Atlanta courthouse and went
on a murderous rampage. Liberals have proffered every possible
explanation for this breakdown in security except the giant elephant
in the room -- who undoubtedly has an eating disorder and would
appreciate a little support vis-a-vis her negative body image.

The New York Times said the problem was not enough government spending
on courthouse security ("Budgets Can Affect Safety Inside Many
Courthouses"). Yes, it was tax-cuts-for-the-rich that somehow enabled
a 200-pound former linebacker to take a gun from a 5-foot-tall
grandmother.

Atlanta court officials dispensed with any spending issues the next
time Nichols entered the courtroom when he was escorted by 17 guards
and two police helicopters. He looked like P. Diddy showing up for a
casual dinner party.

I think I have an idea that would save money and lives: Have large men
escort violent criminals. Admittedly, this approach would risk another
wave of nausea and vomiting by female professors at Harvard. But there
are also advantages to not pretending women are as strong as men, such
as fewer dead people. Even a female math professor at Harvard should
be able to run the numbers on this one.

Of course, it's suspiciously difficult to find any hard data about the
performance of female cops. Not as hard as finding the study showing
New Jersey state troopers aren't racist, but still pretty hard to
find.

Mostly what you find on Lexis-Nexis are news stories quoting police
chiefs who have been browbeaten into submission, all uttering the
identical mantra after every public safety disaster involving a girl
cop. It seems that female officers compensate for a lack of strength
with "other" abilities, such as cooperation, empathy and intuition.

There are lots of passing references to "studies" of uncertain
provenance, but which always sound uncannily like a press release from
the Feminist Majority Foundation. (Or maybe it was The Pew Research
Center for the People and the Press, which recently released a study
claiming that despite Memogate, "Fahrenheit 911," the Richard Clarke
show and the jihad against the Swift Boat Veterans, the press is being
soft on Bush.)

The anonymous "studies" about female officers invariably demonstrate
that women make excellent cops -- even better cops than men! One such
study cited an episode of "She's the Sheriff," starring Suzanne
Somers.

A 1993 news article in the Los Angeles Times, for example, referred to
a "study" -- cited by an ACLU attorney -- allegedly proving that
"female officers are more effective at making arrests without
employing force because they are better at de-escalating
confrontations with suspects." No, you can't see the study or have the
name of the organization that performed it, and why would you ask?

There are roughly 118 million men in this country who would take
exception to that notion. I wonder if women officers "de-escalate" by
mentioning how much more money their last suspect made.

These aren't unascertainable facts, like Pinch Sulzberger's SAT
scores. The U.S. Department of Justice (news - web sites) regularly
performs comprehensive surveys of state and local law enforcement
agencies, collected in volumes called "Law Enforcement Management and
Administrative Statistics."

The inestimable economist John Lott has looked at the actual data.
(And I'll give you the citation! John R. Lott Jr., "Does a Helping
Hand Put Others at Risk? Affirmative Action, Police Departments and
Crime," Economic Inquiry, April 1, 2000.)

It turns out that, far from "de-escalating force" through their
superior listening skills, female law enforcement officers vastly are
more likely to shoot civilians than their male counterparts.
(Especially when perps won't reveal where they bought a particularly
darling pair of shoes.)

Unable to use intermediate force, like a bop on the nose, female
officers quickly go to fatal force. According to Lott's analysis, each
1 percent increase in the number of white female officers in a police
force increases the number of shootings of civilians by 2.7 percent.

Adding males to a police force decreases the number of civilians
accidentally shot by police. Adding black males decreases civilian
shootings by police even more. By contrast, adding white female
officers increases accidental shootings. (And for my Handgun Control
Inc. readers: Private citizens are much less likely to accidentally
shoot someone than are the police, presumably because they do not have
to approach the suspect and make an arrest.)

In addition to accidentally shooting people, female law enforcement
officers are also more likely to be assaulted than male officers -- as
the whole country saw in Atlanta last week. Lott says: "Increasing the
number of female officers by 1 percentage point appears to increase
the number of assaults on police by 15 percent to 19 percent."

In addition to the obvious explanations for why female cops are more
likely to be assaulted and to accidentally shoot people -- such as
that our society encourages girls to play with dolls -- there is also
the fact that women are smaller and weaker than men.

In a study of public safety officers -- not even the general
population -- female officers were found to have 32 percent to 56
percent less upper body strength and 18 percent to 45 percent less
lower body strength than male officers -- although their outfits were
43 percent more coordinated. (Here's the cite! Frank J. Landy,
"Alternatives to Chronological Age in Determining Standards of
Suitability for Public Safety Jobs," Technical Report, Vol. 1, Jan.
31, 1992.)

Another study I've devised involves asking a woman to open a jar of
pickles.

There is also the telling fact that feminists demand that strength
tests be watered down so that women can pass them. Feminists
simultaneously demand that no one suggest women are not as strong as
men and then turn around and demand that all the strength tests be
changed. It's one thing to waste everyone's time by allowing women to
try out for police and fire departments under the same tests given to
men. It's quite another to demand that the tests be brawned-down so no
one ever has to tell female Harvard professors that women aren't as
strong as men.

Acknowledging reality wouldn't be all bad for women. For one thing,
they won't have to confront violent felons on methamphetamine. So
that's good. Also, while a sane world would not employ 5-foot-tall
grandmothers as law enforcement officers, a sane world would also not
give full body-cavity searches to 5-foot-tall grandmothers at
airports.

http://tinyurl.com/56eao

Kurt Ullman

2005-03-19, 6:10 pm

In article <42390B6E.F9B4EC39@ix.netcom.com>, poboxdc@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
>FREEZE! I JUST HAD MY NAILS DONE!
>
>By Ann Coulter
>
>How many people have to die before the country stops humoring
>feminists? Last week, a defendant in a rape case, Brian Nichols,
>wrested a gun from a female deputy in an Atlanta courthouse and went
>on a murderous rampage. Liberals have proffered every possible
>explanation for this breakdown in security except the giant elephant
>in the room -- who undoubtedly has an eating disorder and would
>appreciate a little support vis-a-vis her negative body image.

She, is of course, conveniently forgetting that he also got a
gun from a guy. The early line (subject of course to changes as the
investigatrion continues) is that the problem in Atlanta largely
stemmed from policy and procedure (only one person no matter the
gender. Many areas keep a team on prisoners, those closest without
weapons and those just out of arms-length armed to the teeth).

--
Here in California, US immigrants do the really dirty jobs nobody else
wants to do. Cleaning toilets. Being governor.

SBH

Mangrove Man

2005-03-19, 6:10 pm

"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nMf_d.13058$cN6.5720@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> In article <42390B6E.F9B4EC39@ix.netcom.com>, poboxdc@ix.netcom.com
> wrote:
>
> She, is of course, conveniently forgetting that he also got a
> gun from a guy. The early line (subject of course to changes as the
> investigatrion continues) is that the problem in Atlanta largely
> stemmed from policy and procedure (only one person no matter the
> gender. Many areas keep a team on prisoners, those closest without
> weapons and those just out of arms-length armed to the teeth).
>
> --
> Here in California, US immigrants do the really dirty jobs nobody else
> wants to do. Cleaning toilets. Being governor.
>
>
> SBH

Yes, that is true. But, by that point HE HAD A GUN!

Mangrove Man

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

Carey Gregory

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

kurtullman@yahoo.com (Kurt Ullman) wrote:

> She, is of course, conveniently forgetting that he also got a
>gun from a guy. The early line (subject of course to changes as the
>investigatrion continues) is that the problem in Atlanta largely
>stemmed from policy and procedure (only one person no matter the
>gender. Many areas keep a team on prisoners, those closest without
>weapons and those just out of arms-length armed to the teeth).

Yep. No single person, regardless of size, can be guaranteed of containing
another person, regardless of size. And for anyone who doubts that, there's
this cute little 110 lb. woman I'd like to introduce you to who I once saw
leave 4 large male cops exhausted, bruised, and soaked in sweat before they
finally got her restrained. And that was *with* her hands cuffed behind her
back.

To put a single guard alone in an elevator with a violent criminal and a gun
was astonishingly stupid and irresponsible. I don't care if that cop had
been The Hulk himself. It was only a matter of time before those policies
led to disaster.

danny burstein

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

In <bndp31ttv22o430l4og1nqkhguj11mpaud@4ax.com> Carey Gregory <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> writes:

>To put a single guard alone in an elevator with a violent criminal and a gun
>was astonishingly stupid and irresponsible. I don't care if that cop had
>been The Hulk himself. It was only a matter of time before those policies
>led to disaster.

Unless, of course, you're John McClane riding an elevator
with the Bad Guy.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0112864/

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

ElJay

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

<poboxdc@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:42390B6E.F9B4EC39@ix.netcom.com...
> FREEZE! I JUST HAD MY NAILS DONE!
>
> By Ann Coulter
>
> . . . .. It seems that female officers compensate for a lack of strength
> with "other" abilities, such as cooperation, empathy and intuition.

Ironically, it was a female who talked this guy into letting her go and
giving up.

poboxdc@ix.netcom.com

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

Carey Gregory wrote:
>
> kurtullman@yahoo.com (Kurt Ullman) wrote:
>
>
> Yep. No single person, regardless of size, can be guaranteed of containing
> another person, regardless of size. And for anyone who doubts that, there's
> this cute little 110 lb. woman I'd like to introduce you to who I once saw
> leave 4 large male cops exhausted, bruised, and soaked in sweat before they
> finally got her restrained. And that was *with* her hands cuffed behind her
> back.
>
> To put a single guard alone in an elevator with a violent criminal and a gun
> was astonishingly stupid and irresponsible. I don't care if that cop had
> been The Hulk himself. It was only a matter of time before those policies
> led to disaster.

A great solution (so far) would be the stun gun type belt
that is worn under clothing, and would shock the prisoner
to the ground, after being triggered by the guard.

But, like everything else that makes sense and is effective,
one day a prisoner will have a heart attack or die from
unrelated causes and they will ban this helpful device.

KM

Carey Gregory

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

poboxdc@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>A great solution (so far) would be the stun gun type belt
>that is worn under clothing, and would shock the prisoner
>to the ground, after being triggered by the guard.

No, you're missing the point. A gun is just a gun. Lethal or not, it can
be taken away from you. All a non-lethal gun would accomplish is making it
harder for him to kill others. He would still be escaped, out of control,
and a threat to everyone in the vicinity.

The only reliable solution is very low-tech: restraints, proper procedures,
and above all, *adequate backup* for those escorting dangerous people.

>But, like everything else that makes sense and is effective,
>one day a prisoner will have a heart attack or die from
>unrelated causes and they will ban this helpful device.

Pretty well accepted at this point and I doubt a rare fatality or two will
get them banned.

poboxdc@ix.netcom.com

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

Carey Gregory wrote:
>
> poboxdc@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>
> No, you're missing the point. A gun is just a gun. Lethal or not, it can
> be taken away from you. All a non-lethal gun would accomplish is making it
> harder for him to kill others. He would still be escaped, out of control,
> and a threat to everyone in the vicinity.
>
> The only reliable solution is very low-tech: restraints, proper procedures,
> and above all, *adequate backup* for those escorting dangerous people.

I agree fully.

>
> Pretty well accepted at this point and I doubt a rare fatality or two will
> get them banned.

I hope not.

(KM)

ElJay

2005-03-23, 5:42 pm

"Carey Gregory" <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t1n141la8spdb7alq0iiugrvce2eqj9k8e@4ax.com...
> poboxdc@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>
> No, you're missing the point. A gun is just a gun. Lethal or not, it can
> be taken away from you. All a non-lethal gun would accomplish is making
it
> harder for him to kill others. He would still be escaped, out of control,
> and a threat to everyone in the vicinity.
>
> The only reliable solution is very low-tech: restraints, proper
procedures,
> and above all, *adequate backup* for those escorting dangerous people.

Why not "all of the above"?

Of course, while transporting there should be restraints, proper procedures,
and adequate back-up. But, I think there is also a process where people on
trial before a jury are allowed to not wear prison uniforms, and are
ordinarily not supposed to be in heavy, obvious shackles, etc. If the
defendant was wearing the stun-belt, more than one guard could carry a
remote stun-belt activation device.

Albert 4

2005-03-26, 10:21 am

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:10:24 -0500, "ElJay" <LJ@LJLJ.LJl> wrote:

>Of course, while transporting there should be restraints, proper procedures,
>and adequate back-up. But, I think there is also a process where people on
>trial before a jury are allowed to not wear prison uniforms, and are
>ordinarily not supposed to be in heavy, obvious shackles, etc. If the
>defendant was wearing the stun-belt, more than one guard could carry a
>remote stun-belt activation device.
>

Proper prisoner handling _requires_ that the people that are
closest to the prisoners be unarmed, no guns, no batons, no pepper
spray.

ElJay

2005-03-26, 10:21 am

"Albert 4" <splatter_c4@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ugs6411kf52ivi3egoilnqraa9cejob3jh@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:10:24 -0500, "ElJay" <LJ@LJLJ.LJl> wrote:
>
>
procedures,[vbcol=seagreen]
on[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Proper prisoner handling _requires_ that the people that are
> closest to the prisoners be unarmed, no guns, no batons, no pepper
> spray.

In the scenario I described above, the people closest to the prisoner would
have no guns, no batons, no pepper spray -- nothing that could be taken away
and used against anyone else.

Carey Gregory

2005-03-26, 10:21 am

"ElJay" <LJ@LJLJ.LJl> wrote:

>In the scenario I described above, the people closest to the prisoner would
>have no guns, no batons, no pepper spray -- nothing that could be taken away
>and used against anyone else.

Exactly.

I was shocked to learn they put an armed deputy alone in an elevator with a
violent felon. I'm no cop or corrections officer, but you don't have to be
to know that was just plain stupid.

Carey Gregory

2005-04-05, 6:26 pm

poboxdc@ix.netcom.com

2005-04-05, 6:26 pm

Carey Gregory wrote:
>
> "ElJay" <LJ@LJLJ.LJl> wrote:
>
>
> Exactly.
>
> I was shocked to learn they put an armed deputy alone in an elevator with a
> violent felon. I'm no cop or corrections officer, but you don't have to be
> to know that was just plain stupid.

Nobody has learned their lessons yet!

Escapee in custody after day on the run
Charges include assault on officer

Judy Blosser, Aurelia Dyer's case officer at the Corrections Center of
Northwest Ohio, demonstrates how a loop in Dyer's body chain allowed
her to choke a corrections officer. Dyer
( THE BLADE/ANDY MORRISON )

By JANE SCHMUCKER and CHRISTINA HALL
BLADE STAFF WRITERS

STRYKER, Ohio - A petite female inmate accused of escaping after
hitting, biting, threatening to kill, and choking to unconsciousness
an officer taking her to a prenatal appointment in Toledo was back in
the Corrections Center of Northwest Ohio here yesterday, just under 24
hours after she broke loose.
Aurelia Dyer, 21, of 642 City Park Ave., Toledo, was charged with
felonious assault and escape after police apprehended her yesterday at
a house on Fulton Street in the central city. She is to be arraigned
today in Toledo Municipal Court.

"She nearly took the life of one of our corrections officers," Jim
Dennis, executive director of CCNO, said.

Corrections Officer Lisa Osborne and Dyer were alone in a jail van
about 1 p.m. Tuesday at St. Vincent Mercy Family Care Center, 2213
Franklin Ave., where Dyer, who is three months' pregnant with her
second child, was to have a checkup.

When Officer Osborne, who was unarmed, walked to Dyer's seat, Dyer
attacked her, jail officials said. She choked Officer Osborne to
unconsciousness three times with her restraint chains, punched her in
the face, and bit her arm, telling her she would kill her if she
didn't stop fighting, according to an arrest warrant.

Because they were in the van, no one heard Officer Osborne yelling for
help, jail officials said.

Dyer used her restraint chain to choke the officer, jail officials
said, because Dyer's petite build - she weighs 120 pounds - gave the
chain more slack than it would have on most inmates.

When Officer Osborne was unconscious, Dyer stole a handcuff key and
fled in stocking feet.

Officer Osborne called the corrections center and Toledo police from
her mobile phone. She was treated at St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center.

Authorities from several agencies, including Toledo police and the
corrections center, looked for Dyer at dozens of central-city
residences. Among the houses they searched were those listed as return
addresses on mail sent to Dyer in jail.

It wasn't until a family friend called the Crime Stopper program that
police apprehended Dyer at 2464 Fulton St. at about 8:30 a.m.

Lee McCoy, a parolee who said he has known Dyer since she was a baby,
said he persuaded her to surrender after he gave her breakfast.

"She was tired and hungry and cold. She wanted to turn herself in, but
she was scared," he said. Dyer showed up at his Fulton Street home
about 8 a.m. yesterday and "asked if I would call [the authorities],
and I did," McCoy said.

It was the second time during her escape Dyer had been at McCoy's
home, he said. The first time she showed up, shortly after she broke
free, McCoy said he didn't know she was on the run.

She had shed her handcuffs, chains, and CCNO sweatshirt and was
wearing red pants, a white T-shirt, and no socks or shoes, he said.

"She said she was in a fight with someone," said McCoy, who gave her
clothes before she left. Later, he saw a news report that she had
escaped from jail.

McCoy, who is on parole for a drug-possession conviction, said he
immediately called authorities to let them know she had been at his
home. On her second visit, when McCoy knew Dyer was wanted, he said he
confronted her.

"She said she was having a lot of stress with people at Stryker. … She
was pregnant. She was on medication. It was stupid what she done,"
McCoy said.

He said Dyer told him she didn't choke the officer, she just pushed
her before she fled. Dyer told him she asked the officer to loosen her
cuffs because they were too tight, he said.

She went on to tell him, he said, that the officer loosened a leg and
handcuff, and she snatched the handcuff key and fled, running down
alleys and taking off the cuffs.

Dyer told McCoy she moved around from place to place in the 19 hours
she was at large, he said.

Authorities at the regional jail said they would interrogate Dyer on
why she escaped. It is the second escape from the corrections center
since it opened in 1990. The other escapee in 2000 was apprehended two
days later in Stryker.

Dyer was serving a 90-day jail sentence from Lucas County Common Pleas
Court for forgery. She recently completed a 45-day sentence from
Toledo Municipal Court for petty theft, drug paraphernalia, and
disorderly conduct.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl...EWS03/503240456

ElJay

2005-04-05, 6:26 pm

Albert 4

2005-04-05, 6:26 pm