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Home > Archive > Emergency services > October 2004 > duty of helping
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| Erik Rull 2004-10-20, 11:12 am |
| Hi,
has your country a duty of helping and what happens if you do not help
after an accident? (prison and so on...)
I just know the laws in Germany and here, you must help, if you don't
endanger yourself otherwise you might get into prison for one year.
If you have references to the paragraphs, post them too.
Thanks,
Greets,
Erik
| |
| Carey Gregory 2004-10-20, 11:12 am |
| Erik Rull <webmasterspam@rdsoftware.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>has your country a duty of helping and what happens if you do not help
>after an accident? (prison and so on...)
In the US there are 2 or 3 states that have laws like that, but to my
knowledge they're almost never enforced. In general, rendering aid is never
mandatory in the US unless you have a "duty to act." Those with a duty to
act would be EMTs, firefighters, police officers, etc.
| |
| HorneTD 2004-10-20, 11:12 am |
| Erik Rull wrote:
> Hi,
>
> has your country a duty of helping and what happens if you do not help
> after an accident? (prison and so on...)
>
> I just know the laws in Germany and here, you must help, if you don't
> endanger yourself otherwise you might get into prison for one year.
>
> If you have references to the paragraphs, post them too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greets,
>
> Erik
Erik
In the United States of America the only state that I know of that has
such a requirement is Vermont. There may be others that I am not aware
of. Any licensed driver in Vermont is required to stop and render aid
to the best of their ability. Enforcement is another matter.
There is a principle of civil law in the US that is called the "Doctrine
of Rescue." This doctrine states that "No one may be required to
imperil them self to rescue another from their own folly." I don't know
how the law works in Germany but here in the USA there are courts of Law
and courts of Equity. The courts of Law are commonly called criminal
courts. The courts of Equity are commonly called civil courts. The
doctrine of rescue applies to most civil court matters. The requirement
in Vermont would be a criminal court matter.
An odd side issue is that many states still have statutes that allow
fire authorities to order ordinary citizens to assist in the suppression
of fire but those statutes are seldom applied in modern practice.
During the first half of the twentieth century those statutes were
applied to obtaining sufficient staffing to suppress wildland fires.
--
Tom H
| |
| danny burstein 2004-10-20, 11:12 am |
| In <ivb3n0dc39csvaepfo6abnn6j94hssenuv@4ax.com> Carey Gregory <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> writes:
>In the US there are 2 or 3 states that have laws like that, but to my
>knowledge they're almost never enforced. In general, rendering aid is never
>mandatory in the US unless you have a "duty to act." Those with a duty to
>act would be EMTs, firefighters, police officers, etc.
Note that that's *on duty* EMTs, etc. There's NO requirement, despite what
many generations of EMT students have been told, to do anything when
you're off duty. (that's as a general rule. There's probably some small
county or village somewhere that provides the exception)
This varies a lot with police and sometimes with firefighters, though. In
many areas those folk are considered "on duty" 24 hours/day.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of EMS and Fire service in the United
States is performed by volunteers, so you cna't make their life too
hard...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
| |
| HorneTD 2004-10-23, 7:07 am |
| Erik Rull wrote:
> Hi,
>
> has your country a duty of helping and what happens if you do not help
> after an accident? (prison and so on...)
>
> I just know the laws in Germany and here, you must help, if you don't
> endanger yourself otherwise you might get into prison for one year.
>
> If you have references to the paragraphs, post them too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greets,
>
> Erik
Erik
In the United States of America the only state that I know of that has
such a requirement is Vermont. There may be others that I am not aware
of. Any licensed driver in Vermont is required to stop and render aid
to the best of their ability. Enforcement is another matter.
There is a principle of civil law in the US that is called the "Doctrine
of Rescue." This doctrine states that "No one may be required to
imperil them self to rescue another from their own folly." I don't know
how the law works in Germany but here in the USA there are courts of Law
and courts of Equity. The courts of Law are commonly called criminal
courts. The courts of Equity are commonly called civil courts. The
doctrine of rescue applies to most civil court matters. The requirement
in Vermont would be a criminal court matter.
An odd side issue is that many states still have statutes that allow
fire authorities to order ordinary citizens to assist in the suppression
of fire but those statutes are seldom applied in modern practice.
During the first half of the twentieth century those statutes were
applied to obtaining sufficient staffing to suppress wildland fires.
--
Tom H
| |
| Bernhard Nowotny 2004-10-25, 7:11 pm |
| HorneTD wrote:
> There is a principle of civil law in the US that is called the "Doctrine
> of Rescue." This doctrine states that "No one may be required to
> imperil them self to rescue another from their own folly." I don't know
> how the law works in Germany but here in the USA there are courts of Law
In Germany: duty to help in accidents or other problems is regulated
by the criminal code ("Strafgesetz-Buch", §323c). Everyone is
_required_ to help
- within his/her best knowledge (seen from the individual viewpoint:
you simply can't do wrong if you have the slightest good
intention)
- as long as it's necessary (ie. not if there are enough other
people helping - and it has to be obvious, that someone needs
help)
- as long as it's possible, especially if you're not endangering
yourself or you won't leave other important duties (ie. a mother
beeing responsible for her small childs is not required to leave
them aside a street to help others)
If this duty is not performed, it's threatened with jail up to
one year or a fine.
If the duty is performed, there are several regulations for
protecting the helper: public insurance and compensation
rules for damaged property (ie. a fire extinguisher, blood
sprinkled trousers, ...) and injuries.
The "endangering yourself" is as well seen from an individual
viewpoint: on a dark street it may seem dangerous for someone
to get into a strange situation. This is respected. But an
emergency call is always possible.
Trained individuals (doctors, medics/EMT, firefighters) have the
same duty, but may be more responsible when it comes to "best
knowledge", even if they're not on duty.
There are even some amplifications: you are more responsible
(ie. you are expected to help) if you are
- on duty (EMS, FD, security guard, baywatch...) if career or
voluntary
- the cause for the accident
- member of a team in potential risky environment (ie. climbers,
divers)
- a relative
This is regulated by §13 ("Garantenstellung" = guarantor's duty) of
german criminal code and threatened with the according penalty
depending on the consequences (ie. "bodily injury caused by
negligence" or else).
Both is not limited to medical help, it covers assistance in any
situation someone needs some help (assaults, disasters, ...).
Police officers are required to enforce the law in severe cases
even off duty (not the wrong parker but the car thief).
Bernhard
--
Bernhard Nowotny
85625 Glonn, Germany (PGP ID: 0x17B6F58C DSS/DH)
"Life was simple before World War II. After that, we had systems."
-- Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
| |
| Anders Halling 2004-10-26, 11:10 am |
| Erik Rull <webmasterspam@rdsoftware.de> writes:
> Hi,
>
> has your country a duty of helping and what happens if you do not help
> after an accident? (prison and so on...)
>
> I just know the laws in Germany and here, you must help, if you don't
> endanger yourself otherwise you might get into prison for one year.
>
> If you have references to the paragraphs, post them too.
>
In Norway you may be prosecuted as a lay person if you "Abandon someone
in a state of helplessness". There is no requirement to give help, but you
may not leave the helpless person before other help arrives.
For licenced "health workers" (EMT's, nurses, MD's) there is also a
requirement to give the "nessecary medical aid, limited by the helpers
training, certifications and ability" in a situation where the
"life and/or health" of the person involved is percived to be threatened
or somesuch. (Helsepersonelloven, §7)
> Thanks,
>
> Greets,
>
> Erik
--
The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy.
Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a shit whether you live or die.
There, you feel better now?
- Dennis Miller
| |
| Bernhard Nowotny 2004-10-31, 2:10 am |
| HorneTD wrote:
> There is a principle of civil law in the US that is called the "Doctrine
> of Rescue." This doctrine states that "No one may be required to
> imperil them self to rescue another from their own folly." I don't know
> how the law works in Germany but here in the USA there are courts of Law
In Germany: duty to help in accidents or other problems is regulated
by the criminal code ("Strafgesetz-Buch", §323c). Everyone is
_required_ to help
- within his/her best knowledge (seen from the individual viewpoint:
you simply can't do wrong if you have the slightest good
intention)
- as long as it's necessary (ie. not if there are enough other
people helping - and it has to be obvious, that someone needs
help)
- as long as it's possible, especially if you're not endangering
yourself or you won't leave other important duties (ie. a mother
beeing responsible for her small childs is not required to leave
them aside a street to help others)
If this duty is not performed, it's threatened with jail up to
one year or a fine.
If the duty is performed, there are several regulations for
protecting the helper: public insurance and compensation
rules for damaged property (ie. a fire extinguisher, blood
sprinkled trousers, ...) and injuries.
The "endangering yourself" is as well seen from an individual
viewpoint: on a dark street it may seem dangerous for someone
to get into a strange situation. This is respected. But an
emergency call is always possible.
Trained individuals (doctors, medics/EMT, firefighters) have the
same duty, but may be more responsible when it comes to "best
knowledge", even if they're not on duty.
There are even some amplifications: you are more responsible
(ie. you are expected to help) if you are
- on duty (EMS, FD, security guard, baywatch...) if career or
voluntary
- the cause for the accident
- member of a team in potential risky environment (ie. climbers,
divers)
- a relative
This is regulated by §13 ("Garantenstellung" = guarantor's duty) of
german criminal code and threatened with the according penalty
depending on the consequences (ie. "bodily injury caused by
negligence" or else).
Both is not limited to medical help, it covers assistance in any
situation someone needs some help (assaults, disasters, ...).
Police officers are required to enforce the law in severe cases
even off duty (not the wrong parker but the car thief).
Bernhard
--
Bernhard Nowotny
85625 Glonn, Germany (PGP ID: 0x17B6F58C DSS/DH)
"Life was simple before World War II. After that, we had systems."
-- Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
| |
| Anders Halling 2004-10-31, 2:10 am |
| Erik Rull <webmasterspam@rdsoftware.de> writes:
> Hi,
>
> has your country a duty of helping and what happens if you do not help
> after an accident? (prison and so on...)
>
> I just know the laws in Germany and here, you must help, if you don't
> endanger yourself otherwise you might get into prison for one year.
>
> If you have references to the paragraphs, post them too.
>
In Norway you may be prosecuted as a lay person if you "Abandon someone
in a state of helplessness". There is no requirement to give help, but you
may not leave the helpless person before other help arrives.
For licenced "health workers" (EMT's, nurses, MD's) there is also a
requirement to give the "nessecary medical aid, limited by the helpers
training, certifications and ability" in a situation where the
"life and/or health" of the person involved is percived to be threatened
or somesuch. (Helsepersonelloven, §7)
> Thanks,
>
> Greets,
>
> Erik
--
The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy.
Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a shit whether you live or die.
There, you feel better now?
- Dennis Miller
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