Ayurveda - UNDERSTANDING HINDUISM

Author

UNDERSTANDING HINDUISM

Dr. Jai Maharaj

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

UNDERSTANDING HINDUISM

Forwarded message from esamskriti.com

Understanding Hinduism

(Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, Neasden, London).

Courtesy and Copyright Swaminarayan Aksharpith.

An airhostess friend of mine who works with Air India
visited the Shri Swaminarayan Mandir in London and picked
up a little booklet for me titled 'Understanding
Hinduism'. First a bit about the temple. "The First
Traditional Hindu Mandir in Europe carved and constructed
entirely according to ancient Shilpashastras. No steel
has been used. 2,828 tonnes of Bulgarian limestone and
2,000 tonnes of Italian Carrara marble were shipped to
India, carved by over 1,500 craftsmen and reshipped to
London.

In all, 26,300 carved pieces, including amazing intricate
ceilings of Indian Ambaji marble, were finally assembled
like a giant jigsaw within three years. The Exhibition
Understanding Hinduism, on the ground floor is concise,
yet comprehensive study of Hindu religion -- its Origin,
Growth, Glory and what Hindu values can contribute to the
Individual, the Society and the World at large. This
booklet provided the research displayed at the
Exhibition". Friends I have reproduced excerpts. Have
divided the booklet into five chapters.

1. Origins, beliefs & glory.
2. Literature & First University.
3. Zero, PI, Geometry, Astronomy.
4. Surgery & Contributions.
5. Universal nature, Care for Animals.

Origin, Beliefs, Glory

A. Roots -- Hinduism is world's oldest living, over 8,500
years old. It is also the most tolerant, most resilient,
most peace loving of all religions. Its roots lie in the
vast Indian subcontinent, in the Indus Valley, which had
300 advanced settlements as early as 5,000 BCE. The
people living around the River Sindhu (Indus) came to be
known as the Hindus. Also known as the Aryans, these
people were local inhabitants and not foreign invaders.

B. Founder -- There is no one single Founder. Through
penance and prayers, intuition and introspection, ancient
seers gained the ultimate experience of God. These
collective experiences formed the foundation of the Vedic
Civilization from which emerged the Hindu Dharm.

C. Civilization -- "In those ancient days even China had
not worked it all out practically, and even Egypt
inherited much of its sacred knowledge from India,
subsequently to pass it on to Greece and then Europe
still sunk in sleep. India held the palm of civilization
and soon spread all around her." J. Miller (American Poet
& Journalist)

D. Advance Township -- By 5,000 BCE a sophisticated
civilization flourished in India with over 300
settlements in a belt extending 1,520 kms. Villages of
mud-brick houses were being built. The formative phases
culminated into a cultural uniformity and single province
-- The Harappan Culture. The Harappan towns by 3,000 BCE
were well planned with citadels and defensive walls.
Layed out in a grid fashion, the houses had rooms and
compartments, with one or two courtyards and a stair
leading often to two storeys. In some places 80 ft wide
the streets and lanes had drains, roofed in brick with
regular inspection holes. Individual bathrooms and
lavatories were impressively drained into a larger
system. The amazing thing is that all construction was
done with baked bricks which were of a standard size –24
x 14 x 7 cms found throughout the Indus Valley at this
period. The larger cities like Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro,
probably, sheltered 20 to 25 thousand inhabitants.

The Rg Ved mentions a winter solstice in 6500 BCE,
confirming the existence of an advanced civilization much
earlier.

Note: All references to dates in the booklet are in CE
Common Era) and BCE (Before Common Era).

E. Beliefs -- What makes the Hindus specials is that they
honor the whole of Creation, see the presence of God in
everything. To them there are two heathens or enemies.
Everyone has the right to evolve spiritually, and shall,
at some time realize the Truth. Hinduism is liberal; it
does not set man a limit of one life, but offers many
lives. At the same time, Hinduism is strict; it makes man
feel responsible for every action he performs, through
the Law of Karm.

The major beliefs of Hinduism are:

Parabrahman: One Supreme all-powerful God. He is the
Creator, has a divine form, is immanent, transcendent and
the Giver of Moksh.

Avatarvad: Manifestation of God on Earth. God Himself
incarnates on earth in various forms to revive Dharm and
grant liberation.

Karmavad: Law of Action. The soul reaps fruits, good or
bad, according to its past and present actions, which are
experienced either in this life or future lives.

Punarjanm: Reincarnation. The immortal souls is
continuously born and reborn in one of the 8,400,000
species until it attains liberation.

Moksh: Ultimate liberation. The goal of human life. It is
the liberation of the soul from the cycle of births and
deaths, and remain eternally in the service of God.

Guru-Shishya Sambandh: Master-Disciple Relationship.
Guidance and grace of a spiritually perfect master,
revered as the embodiment of God, is essential for an
aspirant seeking liberation.

Dharm: That which sustains the universe. An all-
encompassing term representing: divine law, law of being,
path of righteousness, duty, responsibility, virtue,
justice, goodness and truth.

Ved Praman: Scriptural authority of the Vedas. All Hindu
faiths are based on the teaching of the Vedas.

Moorti-Pooja: Idol worship. Consecrated images represent
the presence of God, which is worshipped. The image is a
medium to help devotees offer their devotion to God.

F. Growth -- Hinduism existed long before the sun rose on
the kingdoms of Egypt or set on the Roman Empire; even
before it sparkled upon the Chinese civilization. When
much of Europe was still sunk in sleep, Hindu astronomers
were mapping the skies, doctors were performing surgery
and seers were composing scriptures.

The growth and spread of Hinduism lies in the fact that
it is broad-minded, encourages all scientific and social
developments. It is more than a religion and is rightly
called the Hindu Dharm meaning, 'that which sustains'.
The Truth of Hinduism aims to sustain the whole of
creation, not just one particular species or group.

It promotes a civilization founded on spiritual
principles and not just reason and inquiry. Hence, the
Hindu Culture has survived for millennia uninterrupted
even by the innumerable intrusions and invasions. And
despite these continual provocations, history shows that
the Hindus have remained silent, never aggravated into
war or enmity.

The non-violent, peaceful experience of Hinduism is such
that, without the aid of swords, or mass conversions, its
pure, liberating values have attracted people all over
the world.

G. Glorious Culture -- The Vedic Civilization flourished
around the three major rivers of India. Its first seeds
germinated in the valley of River Sindhu, then migrated
to the shores of River Saraswati (now underground.
Existence proven by satellite images) and finally
culminated along the banks of River Ganga. The holy Ganga
became the ultimate source of life, of intellect and of
illumination. Here, India's glorious culture reached its
sublime heights. And has ever since attracted travelers
and traders, scholars and philosophers, kings and
conquerors to its golden shores, which have never ceased
to fascinate the world.

"The ancient civilization of India differs from those of
Egypt, Mesopotamia and Greece, in that its traditions
have been preserved without break down to the present
day". Arthur Basham (Australian Historian).

"In India, I found a race of mortals living upon the
Earth, but not adhering to it, inhabiting cities, but not
being fixed to them, possessing everything, but possessed
by nothing." Apollonius Tyanaeus (Greek Traveller. 1st
century CE)

"If there is one place on the face of this Earth where
all the dreams of living men have found a home from the
very earliest days when man began the dream of existence,
it is India." Romain Rolland (French Philosopher, 1886-
1944)

"In religion, India is the only millionaire.... The One
land that all men desire to see, and having seen once, by
even a glimpse, would not give that glimpse for all the
shows of all the rest of the globe combined." Mark Twain
(American Author. 1835-1910)

"It is already becoming clear that a chapter which had a
Western beginning will have to have an Indian ending if
it is not to end in the self-destruction of the human
race... At this supremely dangerous moment in history, the
only way of salvation for mankind is the Indian Way." Dr.
Arnold Toynbee (British Historian. 1889-1975)

Hinduism, through its heroes and history, relays the real
values of life. As George Bernard Shaw confirmed: "The
Indian way of life provides the vision of the natural,
real way of life. We veil ourselves with unnatural masks.
On the face of India are the tender expressions which
carry the mark of the Creator's hand."

These divine expressions are the values of service, love,
sacrifice, humility, duty, devotion, fidelity, tolerance
and others that help perfect the Individual.

Literature & First University

A. Literature

1. The First Scriptures of The Human Race -- The Vedas
transcend recorded history, and have not been created by
any mortal. The Vedas are the Eternal Truths revealed by
God to the Great Seers of India. For generations, they
were passed on through experience and word of mouth,
until documented. There are four Vedas:

(1) Rg Ved has 10,552 mantras
(2) Yajur Ved has a total of 1,975 mantras
(3) Saam Ved has 1,875 mantras
(4) Atharv Ved has 5,987 mantras

Ved means knowledge. Two types of knowledge are necessary
to perfect human life:

(1) Apaar Vidya: Knowledge of the World.
(2) Paar Vidya: Knowledge of the Divine.

Hence, The Vedas are the reservoir of all wisdoms of the
universe. They contain the knowledge of Art, Music,
Linguistics, Literature, Economics, Religion, Weaponry,
Space Science, Geometry, Logic, Technology, Hypnotism,
Mathematics, Philosophy, Rituals, Health and Long Life,
Magic, Medicine, Architecture, Aeronautics, Spiritual
Wisdom...

2. Wisdom of The Vedas -- "Whenever I have read any part
of the Vedas, I have felt that some unearthly and unknown
light illuminated me. In the great teaching of the Vedas,
there is no touch of sectarianism. It is of all ages,
climes, and nationalities and is the royal road for the
attainment of the Great Knowledge. When I am at it, I
feel that I am under the spangled heavens of a summer
night." Thoreau (American Thinker)

B. Language

Sanskrit -- The Mother of Languages -- The Sanskrit
language is the oldest, most systematic language that has
survived the longest period through history. It has the
power of expressing all types of thoughts in their
appropriate terminology -- from mythology to literature,
science to philosophy, poetry to prosody, astronomy to
anatomy, as well as, genetics, mathematics, and
cosmology.

C. Education

World's First university -- Around 2,700 years ago, as
early as 700 BCE there existed a giant university at
Takshashila, located in the northwest region of India.

o Not only Indians but students from as far as
Babylonia, Greece, Syria, Arabia and China came to study.

o 68 different streams of knowledge were on the
syllabus.

o A wide range of subjects was taught by experienced
masters: Vedas, Language, Grammar, Philosophy, Medicine,
Surgery, Archery, Politics, Warfare, Astronomy,
Astrology, Accounts, Commerce, Futurology, Documentation,
Occult, Music, Dance, The art of discovering hidden
treasures, etc.

o The minimum entrance age was 16 and there were 10,500
students.

o The Panel of Masters included renowned names like
Kautilya, Panini, Jivak and Vishnu Sharma.

Zero, PI, Geometry, Astronomy

A. Mathematics

1. Zero -- Most Powerful Tool -- India invented the Zero,
without which there would be no binary system. No
computers! Counting would be clumsy and cumbersome! The
earliest recorded date, an inscription of Zero on
Sankheda Copper Plate was found in Gujarat, India (585 --
586 CE). In Brahm-Phuta Siddhanta of Brahmagupta (7th
century CE), the Zero is lucidly explained and was
rendered into Arabic books around 770 CE. From there it
was carried to Europe in the 8th century. However, the
concept of Zero is referred to as Shunya in the early,
Sanskrit texts of 4th century BCE and clearly explained
in Pingala's Chandah Sutra of the 2nd century.

B. Geometry

1. Invention of Geometry -- The word Geometry seems to
have emerged from the Indian word 'Gyaamiti' which means
measuring the Earth. And the word Trigonometry is similar
to 'Trikonamiti' meaning measuring triangular forms.
Euclid is credited with the invention of Geometry in 300
BCE while the concept of Geometry in India emerged in
1,000 BCE, from the practice of making fire altars in
square and rectangular shapes. The treatise of Surya
Siddhanta (4th century CE) describes amazing details of
Trigonometry which were introduced to Europe 1,200 years
later in the 16th century by Briggs.

2. The Value of PI (n) In India -- The ratio of the
circumference and the diameter of a circle is known as Pi
which gives its value as 3.1428571. The old Sanskrit text
Baudhyana Shulba Sutra of 6th century BCE mentions this
ratio as approximately equal to 3. Aryabhatta in 499 CE
worked out the value of Pi to the fourth decimal place as
3.1416. Centuries later, in 825 CE Arab mathematician
Mohammed Ibna Musa says that "This value has been given
by the Hindus (Indians)."

3. Pythagoras' Theorem or Baudhayana's Theorem? -- The
so-called Pythagoras' Theorem -- the square of the
hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle equals the sum of
the square of the two sides -- was worked out earlier by
Baudhayana in Baudhayana Sulba Sutra. He describes: "The
area produced by the diagonal of a rectangle is equal to
the sum of the area produced by it on two sides."

C. Mathematics

1. 100 BCE The Decimal System Flourished in India -- "It
was India that gave us the ingenious method of expressing
all numbers by means of ten symbols (Decimal System)... a
profound and important idea which escaped the genius of
Archimedes and Apollonius, two of the greatest men
produced by antiquity."

D. Astronomy

Indian astronomers have been mapping the skies for 3,500
years.

1. 1,000 Years Before Copernicus -- Copernicus published
his theory of the revolution of the Earth in 1541. A
thousand years before him, Aryabhatta in 5th Century
(400-500 CE) stated that the Earth revolves around the
sun, "just as a person traveling in a boat feels that the
trees on the bank are moving people on the earth feel
that the sun in moving." In his treatise Aryabhatteeam,
he clearly states that our earth is round; it rotates on
its axis, orbits the sun and is suspended in space. And
explains that lunar and solar eclipses occur by the
interplay of the sun, the moon and the Earth.

2. 1,200 Years Before Newton -- The Law of Gravity was
known to the ancient Indian astronomer Bhaskaracharya. In
his Soorya Siddhant, he notes:

"Objects fall on the Earth due to a force of attraction
by the Earth. Therefore, the Earth, planets,
constellations, moon and sun are held in orbit due to
this attraction".

It was not until the late 17th Century in 1687, 1,200
years later, that Sir Isaac Newton re-discovered the Law
of Gravity.

3. Measurement of Time -- In Surya Siddhanta,
Bhaskaracharya calculates the time taken for the Earth to
orbit the sun to 9 decimal places.

Bhaskaracharya = 365. 258756484 days.

Modern accepted measurement = 365. 2596 days.

Between Bhaskaracharya's ancient measurement 1,500 years
ago and the modern measurement the difference is only
0.00085 days. Only 0.0002%.

4. 34,000TH of a Second To 4.32 Billion Years

India has given the idea of the smallest and largest
measure of time.

Krati = 34,000th of a second
1 Truti = 300th of a second
2 Truti = 1 Luv
2 Luv = 1 Kshan
30 Kshan = 1 Vipal
60 Vipal = 1 Pal
60 Pal = 1 Ghadi (24 minutes)
2.5 Ghadi = 1 Hora (1 hour)
24 Hora = 1 Divas (1 day)
7 Divas = 1 Saptah (1 week)
4 Saptah = 1 Maas (1 month)
2 Maas = 1 Ritu (1 season)
6 Ritu = 1 Varsh (1 year)
100 Varsh = 1 Shatabd (1 Century)
10 Shatabd = 1 Sahasrabd
432 Sahasrabd = 1 Yug (kaliyug)
2 Yug = 1 Dwaparyug
3 Yug = 1 Tretayug
4 Yug = 1 Krutayug
10 Yug = 1 Mahayug (4,320,000 years)
1000 Mahayug = 1 Kalp
1 Kalp = 4.32 billion years

Surgery & Contributions

A. Surgery

1. Plastic Surgery In India 2,600 Years Ago -- Shushruta,
known as the Father of Surgery, practiced his skill as
early as 600 BCE. He used cheek skin to perform plastic
surgery to restore or reshape the nose, ears and lips
with incredible results. Modern plastic surgery
acknowledges his contributions by calling this method of
rhinoplasty as the Indian method.

2. 125 Types of Surgical Instruments -- "The Hindu
(Indians) were so advanced in surgery that their
instruments could cut a hair longitudinally." Mrs.
Plunket

Shushruta worked with 125 kinds of surgical instruments,
which included scalpels, lancets, needles, catheters,
rectal speculums, mostly conceived from jaws of animals
and birds to obtain the necessary grips. He also defined
various methods of stitching; the use of horses' hair,
fine thread, fibers of bark, goats' guts and ants' heads.

3. 300 Different Operations -- Shushruta describes the
details of more than 300 operations and 42 surgical
processes. In this compendium Shushruta Samhita he
minutely classifies surgery into 8 types:

Aharyam = extracting solid bodies
Bhedyam = excision
Chhedyam = incision
Aeshyam = probing
Lekhyam = scarification
Vedhyam = puncturing
Visravyam = evacuating fluids
Shivyam = suturing

The ancient Indians were also the first to perform
amputation, caesarean surgery and cranial surgery. For
rhinoplasty, Shushruta first measured the damaged nose,
skillfully sliced off skin from the cheek and sutured the
nose. Then put medicated cotton to heal the operation.

B. Contributions

"Its is true that even across the Himalayan barrier India
has sent to the west, such gifts as grammar and logic,
philosophy and tables, hypnotism and chess, and above all
numerals and the decimal system." Will Durant (American
Historian. 1885-1981)

1. Language -- "The Sanskrit language, whatever be its
antiquity, is of wonderful structure, more perfect than
the Greek, more copious than the Latin and more
exquisitely refined than either." Sir William Jones
(British Orientalist. 1746-1794)

2. Philosophy -- "If I were asked under what sky the
human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest
gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problem
of life, and has found solutions, I should point out to
India." Max Muller (German Scholar. 1823-1900)

3. Religion -- "There can no longer be any real doubt
that both Islam and Christianity owe the foundations of
both their mystical and their scientific achievements to
Indian initiatives." Philip Rawson (British Orientalist)

4. Atomic Physics -- "After the conversations about
Indian Philosophy, some of the ideals of Quantum Physics
that had seemed so crazy suddenly made much more sense."
W. Heisenberg (German Physicist. 1901-1976)

5. Surgery -- "The surgery of the ancient Indian
physicians was bold and skillful. A special branch of
surgery was devoted to rhinoplasty or operations for
improving deformed ears, noses and forming new ones,
which European surgeons have now borrowed." Sir W. Hunter
(British Surgeon. 1718-1783)

6. Literature -- "In the great books of India, an Empire
spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large,
serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence
which in another age and climate had pondered and thus
disposed of the questions that exercises us." R.W.
Emerson (American Essayist. 1803-1882)

Universal nature, Care for Animals

A. Hinduism For The World

Hinduism has a heart as big as the Earth, a global heart.
It teaches the World the true philosophy of peace, the
lessons of Harmony. In India alone, over 400 different
regional cultures, 850 different dialects thrive in
unison. For, Hinduism accepts all, and prays for all.
Where else would the grand ideal: 'The Whole World is One
Family originate? Hindu ideals and prayers can help
change our World for they strive to sustain the whole of
creation.

B. Care for Animals

Hinduism strives to preserve all species, not just
mankind. One of its main ideals remains: 'The Whole of
creation is filled with the presence of God."

Ishopanishad

To see divinity in animals is to respect them. As the
crown of creation, man must protect and tend to other
animals, not exploit and eat. If man stopped killing
animals for fun or food, for products or pleasure, our
world would become less violent. A meat-free, animal-
friendly world would help restore the peaceful nature of
man.

C. Care for Humanity

Hinduism believes: "The Whole World is One Nest."
- Atharv Ved
We are the birds of the same nest,
We may wear different skins,
We may speak in different tongues,
We may believe in different religious,
We may belong to different cultures,
Yet we share the same home-Our Earth.
Born on the same planet, covered by the same skies,
Gazing at the same stars, breathing the same air,
We must learn to happily progress together or miserably
perish together.
For man, can live individually, but can only survive
collectively.

D. Care for Nature

The Hindu concept of Peace is not just a state of No-War,
not just limited to man, or countries and communities,
but extends to Nature, covers the whole of creation.

O Lord!
May there be peace In Heaven and on Earth.
May the Skies, the Waters, the Plants and the Trees be
peaceful.
May peace, Real Peace prevail in All.

The Prayer warns man not to disturb nature.
Not to abuse, pollute or destroy our surroundings.
In declaring war with our environment,
We are simply destroying ourselves,
True peace will dawn only when
Man lives in peace with Himself, Nature and God!

Long Live Sanatan Dharam
May 2004.

http://www.esamskriti.com/html/new_...id=1077&sid=175

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

cteasd5941@gmail.com

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

2,000 years ago, and in full knowledge of ancient wisdoms, The Lord
Jesus Christ gave His life for your sins, so that you may be born again
and be in good conscience toward God through the power of The Holy
Spirit.

And Common ground with Hinduism, The Lord Krishna also tells us that a
man must be free of his sins to come into the shelter of The Supreme
Lord God.

Jesus gave us just two commandments

* To love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.

* To love your neighbour as yourself.

He said that all laws rest on these two commandments, which is absolute
truth.

Such love is nothing complicated.

In Christ's love
Carol T

imemind@comcast.net

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

Here are few fundamental difference between christ amd Krishna's
teachings:

C: Humanity is born sinner
K: Humanity is born divine - men realize that divinity thru various
means

C: God is not part of or within Creation and creation is not divine
K: Creation is menifestation of god's divine play and God is very much
within his creation as well as beyond.

C: Since God is not part of creation, he can not be a father, mother,
son, daughter, guru, saviour, or be in any other human relationship.
K: God is accessible to creation in various relastionships - God
certainly menifest as son, father, Jagad Guru, mentor etc not just to a
self-appointed prophet but also to every one who sincerely seek

C: My God is true god and all other gods are false gods, Salvation is
possible only thru christ and non-followers are condemned to eternal
hell
K: Man may progress towards salvation(Moksha) at his own inclination
and freewill - man enjoys fruits of his own bad and good karma - Man
may go thru as many cycle of birth-rebirth as he wishes till he decides
to work harder to progress towards achieving moksha. So non believers
are not condemned, they enjoy more material freedoms and go thru more
cycles of birth-rebirth.

cteasd5941@gmail.com wrote:
> 2,000 years ago, and in full knowledge of ancient wisdoms, The Lord
> Jesus Christ gave His life for your sins, so that you may be born again
> and be in good conscience toward God through the power of The Holy
> Spirit.
>
> And Common ground with Hinduism, The Lord Krishna also tells us that a
> man must be free of his sins to come into the shelter of The Supreme
> Lord God.
>
> Jesus gave us just two commandments
>
> * To love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
>
> * To love your neighbour as yourself.
>
> He said that all laws rest on these two commandments, which is absolute
> truth.
>
> Such love is nothing complicated.
>
> In Christ's love
> Carol T

cteasd5941@gmail.com

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

Dear imem,
[vbcol=seagreen]

Humanity was not _born_ sinful, Adam chose to eat the apple, the
choice to lead his own life caused him to sin against God.

What is sin....people say that don't cheat, don't steal, don't lie etc
....these are the _results_ of sin, and not the _reason_ for the sin.
They are simply the results of a bigger problem. The bigger problem is
that we chose to live for ourselves and not for God.

Just one instruction from God to Adam and Eve...don't eat the
fruit......the serpent puts doubt into their mind and they eat the
fruit. Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve chose to lead their own
life and not let God lead their life.

[vbcol=seagreen]

"nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the
kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Luke 17:21

Christians see God in all His creation, the heavens, seas, sky,
flowers, trees and beyond all these things. The Kingdom of God is
within us and outside of us, it is in our midst.
[vbcol=seagreen]
self-appointed prophet but also to every one who sincerely seek
<<<<<<<<<<

Jesus said " Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" KJ Matthew 7:7
[vbcol=seagreen]

Men are not condemned, it is self condemnation if they realise hell for
themselves. Men cannot dismiss their responsibly to this world in the
belief that they will simply 'get another go'. God's Word is here, now,
for all to hear if they have the ears to hear with. Jesus does not say
that we can't enjoy our material freedoms, but through His Holy Spirit
we are strengthened and can use our consciences toward God's work and
freedoms in true salvation. There is little room for materialism in a
Holy life, you can not be sinless and thirst for material freedoms,
your thirst must be turned toward God's Word and Spirit.

In Christ's love
Carol T

imemind@comcast.net

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

cteasd5941@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear imem,
>
>
> Humanity was not _born_ sinful, Adam chose to eat the apple, the
> choice to lead his own life caused him to sin against God.
>
> What is sin....people say that don't cheat, don't steal, don't lie etc
> ...these are the _results_ of sin, and not the _reason_ for the sin.
> They are simply the results of a bigger problem. The bigger problem is
> that we chose to live for ourselves and not for God.
>
> Just one instruction from God to Adam and Eve...don't eat the
> fruit......the serpent puts doubt into their mind and they eat the
> fruit. Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve chose to lead their own
> life and not let God lead their life.

Subsequent to Adam's fall to sinfulness, humanity no longer remains
sinless or divine. So my assertions is correct that xianity no longer
hold humanity to be inherently divine. In xianity, nobody except christ
has access to divinity and sinlessness, while rest are condemned to be
sinners and must beg mercies from chirst.

If I understand xian bable as you stated, humanity has no right to lead
their own life and Humanity must be led by whatever xian god whims and
humanity have no free-will.

So christian god denies both divinity as well as free-will to humanity.
It is indeed xianity that condemns humanity to sinfulness on the
pretext of saving few from sin.

>
>
>
> "nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the
> kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Luke 17:21
>
> Christians see God in all His creation, the heavens, seas, sky,
> flowers, trees and beyond all these things. The Kingdom of God is
> within us and outside of us, it is in our midst.

Xianity claim whole creation to be kingdom of xian god, creation
belongs only to xian God - therefore duty of xian faithfuls to snatch
the creation from non-xian gods and non-xian non-belivers. Thus, xian
god first robs divinity from humanity, condemns the humanity to
sinfulness, than rob divinity also from creation and claim whole of
creation to be part of kingdom of god that must be conquired and
converetd to xian fiefdom. There is a big difference between creation
being divine and creation being part of kingdom of xian God - the
former allows respect and accomodation of all as divine equal, the
later breeds bloody ideologies of hate, conversion, conquest, world
domination.
>
> self-appointed prophet but also to every one who sincerely seek
> <<<<<<<<<<
>
> Jesus said " Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
> knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" KJ Matthew 7:7

So One must go thru jesus to access God. God is not available directly
to anybdy else. God can speak only to jesus but to no other creatures
of creation at any time now or in infinite future. Xian God says, ask
and i will not give to you, seek but you can not find, you can knock
but nobody will hear you. xian god is no accessible. God is dead. All
you have is a self-appointed prohpet acting like an intermediary, an
agent of god and this prophet seeks absolute powers in the name of God
yielding none to humanity, creation, nature, gods.
>
>
> Men are not condemned, it is self condemnation if they realise hell for
> themselves. Men cannot dismiss their responsibly to this world in the
> belief that they will simply 'get another go'.

Yes they are condemned by xian god and his agent. They are declared
sinful and incapable of being sinless. If man rejects christ and xian
god, xianity would declare such people to have missed their
responsibilities to this world, wasting their lives for 'another go'.
That sounds condemnation to me.

God's Word is here, now,
> for all to hear if they have the ears to hear with.

Why must i take the babling of a lunatic 2000 years ago and accept it
as God's word? Why can't God reveal to each person directly without an
intermediary like jesus? If God has a word for me, i'd like to hear
directly from God. So what jesus or bible says has no meaning for rest
of humanity.

Jesus does not say
> that we can't enjoy our material freedoms, but through His Holy Spirit
> we are strengthened and can use our consciences toward God's work and
> freedoms in true salvation.

I like to enjoy my material freedoms without christ's approval or
permission. i do not like to work for jesus or God. There is no freedom
or salvation if God is not available without intermediaries and
commission agents.

There is little room for materialism in a
> Holy life, you can not be sinless and thirst for material freedoms,
> your thirst must be turned toward God's Word and Spirit.

is that why xian civilization is beset by materialism?
>
> In Christ's love
> Carol T

cteasd5941@gmail.com

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

Dear imem,

He isn't just 'Christian' God, He is simply The Lord God, One with
Christ on His Holy Spirit. He is The Lord over all things, creations,
and Word. His Word alone is more powerful than all words of men
together.

You ask me "Why can't God reveal to each person directly without an
intermediary like Jesus?" God can if you find a way of removing all
those obstacles 'you' have put between you both, all those thoughts,
deeds and words you have used against your neighbour, all idols and
materialism too.

[vbcol=seagreen]

Dear imem,

He isn't just 'Christian' God, He is simply The Lord God, One with
Christ on His Holy Spirit. He is The Lord over all things, creations,
and Word. His Word alone is more powerful than all words of men
together.

You ask me "Why can't God reveal to each person directly without an
intermediary like jesus?" God can if you find a way of removing all
those obstacles 'you' have put between you both, all those thoughts,
deeds and words you have used against your neighbour, all idols and
materialism too.

[vbcol=seagreen]

No, it is beset with the freewill to learn through Christ's teachings
through salvation. We are beset with the freedom to come to a
realisation of Christ's Glory and light. We are told from the start
about the battles we are going to have with darkness, wants desires,
evil powers etc... We are warned not to store up treasures on earth,
where the moths and rust destroy it and thieves can break in and steal.
Christianity is a faith of good conscience toward God through
salvation from sin, each and every individual has to go through the
process of realisation for themselves.

Think about who you would do if Jesus was alive today. If I disclose
His teachings to you. What would you say to Him about the things He
taught and said ? What is it that he was saying to 'you' in the
parables for example? What do you know of what Jesus said and why?

Try some of these teaching from The Sermon on The Mount (below). Why
does he call certain sections of people blessed? Why isn't He calling
the rich and well off blessed? What differs in the soul of a man in
poverty, mournfulness, the gentle, the hungry, the dying, the
persecuted and so on..... Think of the uniqueness of these people and
how they come to be so blessed .

http://www.lifeofchrist.com/teachin.../beatitudes.asp

* Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they
shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of
righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely
say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the
same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. *

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What does He mean when He says, let your light shine before men? Does
materialism glorify whom you worship and adore if your neighbour
suffers at your side?

* You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless,
how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything,
except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. You are the
light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does
anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand,
and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine
before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify
your Father who is in heaven *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jesus taught many things which are just as relevant today as they were
then. A man who chooses to follow His light toward God walks away from
what is behind Him in the darkness. No one says it's easy to stop being
'human' in nature and become more like Him.

So what if we are sinners, is it such a bad thing to know who we are
and set ourselves on the road to honesty and true salvation? It's more
important that we become saved from continuing wilfully in this nature
by accepting what he did for us, than it is to defend ourselves. To be
saved....this is true freedom.

Try, if you can, to read The Gospel of Matthew from Chapter 2 onward
(Chapter 1 is about His genealogy)

http://www.utoronto.ca/religion/synopsis/meta-5g.htm

Look for light, love and understanding...find common ground with men
through wanting to learn because you love them.

In Christ's love
Carol T

imemind@comcast.net

2005-07-20, 2:09 pm

cteasd5941@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear imem,
>
> He isn't just 'Christian' God, He is simply The Lord God, One with
> Christ on His Holy Spirit. He is The Lord over all things, creations,
> and Word. His Word alone is more powerful than all words of men
> together.

How can he not be 'christian' God if you claim him to be one with
Christ? You know, not everybody accepts christ or his god as THE GOD.
He is a factional christian god and yet seeks to be all powerful, and
rule over whole of creation - that is what make him a power-hungry thug
creating a bloody trail of genocides and wars for conquest of 'kingdom
of Christ' throughout history. He is a weakling but has ambition to be
omnipotent, he is a prince of materialism but seeks to lord over world
of theism and spiritualism. He is one of many factional gods but denys
all other gods and claims to be the only one - so he is a quarrelsome
and envious god who can stand existance of and competetion from other
gods.

>
> You ask me "Why can't God reveal to each person directly without an
> intermediary like Jesus?" God can if you find a way of removing all
> those obstacles 'you' have put between you both,

So you agree that it is possible for some people to remove 'obstacles'
and have direct revealation from God - so in that case, they would also
be called prophets like jesus and they would transmit a direct word of
god in their own time and place - so bible is not the only word from
god and other people can also possess word of god. So people can follow
other prohpets and achieve salvation - and jesus is no better than any
other prophets or saints.

all those thoughts,
> deeds and words you have used against your neighbour, all idols and
> materialism too.
>
>

That is precisely what xinaity has been doing for last 2000 years. it
has been at war with non-believers and followers of other Gods and word
of gods.

cteasd5941@gmail.com

2005-07-21, 10:53 pm

>>>>>..So you agree that it is possible for some people to remove 'obstacles' and have direct revelation from God<<<<<<<<

Yes, but only by Christ's light and life.

I see that you have not yet understood the difference between Christ
and a prophet. Jesus is wholly One with God and His Holy Spirit, as He
was in flesh before His death for us. A prophet is someone who is just
as we are, a sinner and someone who falls far short of God's glory. In
fact if you know more about the prophets you can discover just how far
short of God's glory they actually were, and yet they still received
His grace.

Tell me, what does the story of the stoning tell you about the
prophets? Why did the stoners put down their stones, eldest first and
not the youngest first?
http://www.cforc.com/kjv/John/8.html

What can a story written about reaching into men's conciseness tell you
about the prophets and of Jesus? How can I ask you this when the story
appears to have nothing to do with the prophets at all?

Why is this 'Word' when it is a story too?

In Christ's love
Carol T

cteasd5941@gmail.com

2005-07-21, 10:53 pm

imemind@comcast.net

2005-07-21, 10:53 pm

cteasd5941@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Yes, but only by Christ's light and life.

So my original assertion was correct that one can never enjoy direct
relationship with God as one must go thru an intermediary like Christ
to access God. God's contact with humanity was once in a millinum
historical event never to be repeated for eternity - God during that
brief contact, appointed Jesus as his agent and humanity must rely on
christ to know word of God but humanity can not varify or have direct
revelation from god, never. What a fraud in the name of God!

>
> I see that you have not yet understood the difference between Christ
> and a prophet.

Xianity has tried to fool people by floating several such confusing
notions: each xian cult has been built around such notions.

1) Jesus is son of God

2) Jesus is God, jesus is one with God

3) Jesus is father in heaven

4) Jesus is son and god is father in heaven

5) Jesus is a messiah, messanger of god

6) jesus is a phrophet and god is god

Jesus is wholly One with God and His Holy Spirit, as He
> was in flesh before His death for us.

A prophet is someone who is just
> as we are, a sinner and someone who falls far short of God's glory.

A prophet is an intermediary of a lazy God. God is too lazy to show up
on his own. He has no time for humanity. So he sends an agent and god
is so lazy-busy such event occures only once in a point of time and
place in the history of humanity. Now you claim that humanity is sinner
and so is prophet but jesus is no prophet and he was sinless. You may
not accept that jesus is a self-appointed agent of God, an intermediary
of God, prophet of god, as sinner as anybody else, but that does not
make it a truth.

In
> fact if you know more about the prophets you can discover just how far
> short of God's glory they actually were, and yet they still received
> His grace.
>

i agree. jesus is a big fraud. Why should I hire a middleman like
christ when I can directly receive the grace from god. A Christan would
say you can not - Hindu would say you can.
>
Give up jesus fraud and accept mercies of Krishna. Krishna will show
you how you can realize dinivity within you and have personal
relationship with God.

cteasd5941@gmail.com

2005-07-22, 8:58 am

>>>>>>>Why should I hire a middleman like christ when I can directly receive the grace from god. A Christan would say you can not - Hindu would say you can. <<<<<<<

Dear imem,

If your salvation comes so cheaply what meaning has it to a Lord who
commands your utter faith in Him? Are you 'more' that your Lord God?

You say Hindus say that you can receive salvation directly from God,
Why does Krishna not say this? He teaches that you must be sin free to
come into God's presence. He teaches that you must become divine. Where
is this nation of divine people's who are Christ like in all they do,
teach and live?

In all ways this must be as Jesus lived and taught, there is no second
class divinity. Only Jesus has lead a sinless life. Men must become
born again into an incorruptible life.

Today, be honest with yourself, think of the things you think, hear the
things you say, see the things you do...........truly be honest, are
they of God's nature in every minute of every day? He knows what is in
your heart, mind and soul. You cannot stretch the truth about this to
yourself because you lay your lie in front of The Lord God as well, and
not in front of me.

In Christ's love
Carol T

Virendra

2005-07-24, 12:56 pm

>And Common ground with Hinduism, The Lord Krishna also tells us that a
>man must be free of his sins to come into the shelter of The Supreme
>Lord God.

This is a very narrow view for interpreting Krishna's teachings. The
above reference in Gita is taken out of context. When Arjuna asked
Krishna how to distinguish between right and wrong, Krishna taught him
that you have to elavate yourself to a higher level to see right from
wrong. At that level there is no greed, no anger, no ego etc etc. All
actions in that mode of nature are Divine Actions. You, as a human
being, see those Actions cruel or friendly based on your impurities
(ego, greed etc) of your mind. In Gita, the job of Krishna was to raise
Arjuna to a higher level so that he can distinguish between right and
wrong and fight the evil.

Note that this interpretation is open ended. It is upto the aspirant to
find out the goal and their social responsibilities in pursuit of
his/her spiritual development. For example, a King ought to take some
lessons on divinity so that he can't misuse the force at his disposal.

Divinity varies from person to person depending upon spiritual
development. Hindusim says (as opposed to Cristianity which says humans
are born sinners) that humans are divine by nature. Because of this
fundamental assumption, Hindusim says that every human being can become
absolute Divine by Nature which is nothing but moksha and unity with
God. However, absolute divinity is extreme and is passive because it is
useless from mateialistic point of view. You can't do anything with
Absolute Divinity. For example, to destroy evil such as Ravana and
Kaurav's, the Absolute Divinity itself has to descend some levels down
to take up physical form.

BTW. the unfortunate part of above interpretation is that Jihadis also
take the same line but they forget that are just Muslims who have great
ego to spread their religion. If they can achieve divinity, they will
stop killing innocent people. First, they have to understand the
meaning of divinity unless a zealot Muslim doesn't kill him while
venturing into the meaning of divinity.

tripurantaka@yahoo.com

2005-07-24, 12:56 pm

imemind@comcast.net wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> cteasd5941@gmail.com wrote:

Dear Imem! Thanks for this. Great. Great pleasure and enlightening to
read what you write. Please continue. I fully agree with you