| Jim Chinnis 2005-07-20, 2:08 pm |
| "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:
>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>:: But garlic hasn't been shown to "work." There's the rub. When
>:: someone says it's as good as a statin, they need to be ablr e to
>:: show that it reduces MIs and strokes and cardiac death by about
>:: the same amounts that statins do and in the same populations.
>
>I was not claiming that it works as good as statins. So I am not in a
>position to defend that claim. I am just saying that there is enough
>scientific evidence to say that garlic reduces cardiovascular risk -- it is
>just the amount which is unclear.
I know YOU weren't, Juhana. But that was what the thread was
about, and I was saying, "prove it." Your defense of garlic *in
this thread* and saying that it "works" is, I think, misleading. I
don't accuse you of anything at all.
>::: I have noticed that you have a tendency to
>::: oppose everything.
>::
>:: Please clarify. I probably eat a diet similar to the one you
>:: advocate. But I can recognize when advocates engage in hyperbole.
>:: Most of the studies that are cited over and over don't prove what
>:: they are claimed to.
>::
>:: If you want to state that you can drop your statin and just add
>:: more garlic, you really need to have a randomized study. Randomize
>:: a bunch of people into two groups. Give one a placebo every day
>:: and give the other a garlic pill. Wait a few years or so and see
>:: if the garlic group has 30% fewer heart attacks and strokes and
>:: cardiac fatalities are lower.
>::
>:: Governments have failed to fund the necessary studies for public
>:: health.
>::
>:: It's fine to advocate garlic as a replacement for statins if you
>:: ackowledge that there are no data to show how cardiac morbidity
>:: and mortality are changed by consuming garlic--that you only have
>:: effects on markers and risk factors.
>:: --
>:: Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>
>I am not advocating garlic in place of statins; it was Dr. Maharaj. I am
>just saying that garlic is heart healthy. That's all.
Well, you might be right and you might be wrong. I suspect the
former, and I like garlic anyway. But improving risk profiles
isn't the same as reducing risk. Risk factors are postulated on
the basis of how risks vary across populations and sometimes on
theoretical notions and models. They sometimes prove wrong.
I guess we know that some ways of reducing inflammation or
lowering cholesterol, for instance, reduces the chance of an MI.
But some ways have more effect than others and some have negative
effects (increase chance of an MI).
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
|