| Juhana Harju 2005-07-20, 2:08 pm |
| Jim Chinnis wrote:
:: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:
::
::: Jim Chinnis wrote:
::::: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:
:::::
:::::: Jim Chinnis wrote:
:::::::: "GaryG" <sorrynoemail@NOSPAMX.com> wrote in part:
::::::::: "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
::::::::: news:1121434910.905366.32290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
:::::::::: GaryG wrote:
::::::::::: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
::::::::::: news:qoaPe2380oVVso@PyiUc...
:::::::::::: In article <e5DBe.171202$sy6.62304@lakeread04>,
:::::::::::: " dwacon" <ronald.mcdonald@supersize.me> posted:
::::::::::::: Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
:::::::::::::
:::::::::::::: GARLIC - BETTER THAN STATIN DRUGS FOR PREVENTING HEART
:::::::::::::: ATTACKS
::::::::::::
::::::::::::: So what if you take both?
::::::::::::
:::::::::::: Consult, in person, a duly trained and licensed health
:::::::::::: professional in your jurisdiction. It will be better if
:::::::::::: he or she is also trained in the use of herbs and wholistic
:::::::::::: health systems such as Ayurved -- an Ayurvedic physician
:::::::::::: with an MD is my recommendation.
::::::::::::
:::::::::::: Jai Maharaj
:::::::::::: http://www.mantra.com/jai
:::::::::::: Om Shanti
:::::::::::
::::::::::: I didn't see the original post. Do you have a link to a
::::::::::: valid study showing the beneficial effects of garlic?
:::::::::::
::::::::::: It was promoted for cholesterol lowering a few years ago,
::::::::::: but subsequent studies showed it had no effect.
:::::::::::
::::::::::: GG
::::::::::
:::::::::: Since when is cholesterol a decent marker for heart disease?
:::::::::: Half of all heart attack incidents occur in people without
:::::::::: elevated cholesterol. Garlic is a natural diuretic, which is
:::::::::: at least one of its beneficial effects in human health.
::::::::::
:::::::::: PeterB
::::::::::
:::::::::
::::::::: There are many natural diuretics (I'm drinking a cup of coffee
::::::::: right now...an excellent diuretic). But, the claim is that
::::::::: garlic can "prevent heart attacks". Can you provide us with
::::::::: links to studies that back up this claim?
:::::::::
::::::::: GG
::::::::
:::::::: Of course not. Certainly no study that compared garlic
:::::::: consumption levels with heart attack rates, even in a
:::::::: retrospective/observational design.
:::::::: --
:::::::: Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
::::::
:::::: Its ability to reduce cardiovascular risk factors has been
:::::: estimated in studies based on its effects on cardiovascular risk
:::::: factors. This is just one example:
::::::
:::::: Franco OH et al, The Polymeal: a more natural, safer, and
:::::: probably tastier (than the Polypill) strategy to reduce
:::::: cardiovascular disease by more than 75%. BMJ 2004;329:1447-1450.
::::::
:::::: "Daily consumption of garlic reduced total cholesterol
:::::: concentrations by
:::::: 0.44 mmol/l (17.1 mg/dl), corresponding to 66% of the reduction
:::::: (0.66 mmol/l) that was found to be associated with a 38%
:::::: reduction in cardiovascular disease at age 50.Therefore, we
:::::: considered 66% of the effect previously reported and assumed a
:::::: reduction of 25% (21.7% to 27.7%) in cardiovascular disease
:::::: events for garlic. Most of the randomised controlled trials
:::::: included in the meta-analysis used 600-900 mg/day of dried
:::::: garlic powder preparations, equivalent to 1.8-2.7 g/day of fresh
:::::: garlic. We selected 2.7 g/day of fresh garlic for the Polymeal.
:::::: Consuming 68 g/day of almonds produced half the reduction in
:::::: total cholesterol (10 mg/dl) observed with garlic, so we assumed
:::::: a reduction in cardiovascular disease half the one assigned to
:::::: garlic."
:::::
::::: The Franco et al. paper was an April 1st spoof.
:::
::: It was published in December. Not very likely.
::
:: My mistake. I was hurrying and confused it with a similar spoof.
::
::::: And it's weak evidence when one says that risk factors are
::::: improved rather than that the relative odds of events improved.
::::: When one claims that something improves heart disease mortality as
::::: much as a statin does, the evidence needs to be comparable.
::::: Statins don't just reduce cholesterol.
:::
::: Nor does garlic just reduce cholesterol. It works also by other
::: mechanisms, e.g. reducing clotting etc.
::
:: But garlic hasn't been shown to "work." There's the rub. When
:: someone says it's as good as a statin, they need to be ablr e to
:: show that it reduces MIs and strokes and cardiac death by about
:: the same amounts that statins do and in the same populations.
I was not claiming that it works as good as statins. So I am not in a
position to defend that claim. I am just saying that there is enough
scientific evidence to say that garlic reduces cardiovascular risk -- it is
just the amount which is unclear.
::: I have noticed that you have a tendency to
::: oppose everything.
::
:: Please clarify. I probably eat a diet similar to the one you
:: advocate. But I can recognize when advocates engage in hyperbole.
:: Most of the studies that are cited over and over don't prove what
:: they are claimed to.
::
:: If you want to state that you can drop your statin and just add
:: more garlic, you really need to have a randomized study. Randomize
:: a bunch of people into two groups. Give one a placebo every day
:: and give the other a garlic pill. Wait a few years or so and see
:: if the garlic group has 30% fewer heart attacks and strokes and
:: cardiac fatalities are lower.
::
:: Governments have failed to fund the necessary studies for public
:: health.
::
:: It's fine to advocate garlic as a replacement for statins if you
:: ackowledge that there are no data to show how cardiac morbidity
:: and mortality are changed by consuming garlic--that you only have
:: effects on markers and risk factors.
:: --
:: Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
I am not advocating garlic in place of statins; it was Dr. Maharaj. I am
just saying that garlic is heart healthy. That's all.
--
Juhana
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