| Jim Chinnis 2005-07-20, 2:08 pm |
| "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:
>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>:: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:
>::
>::: Jim Chinnis wrote:
>::::: "GaryG" <sorrynoemail@NOSPAMX.com> wrote in part:
>:::::: "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
>:::::: news:1121434910.905366.32290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>::::::: GaryG wrote:
>:::::::: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
>:::::::: news:qoaPe2380oVVso@PyiUc...
>::::::::: In article <e5DBe.171202$sy6.62304@lakeread04>,
>::::::::: " dwacon" <ronald.mcdonald@supersize.me> posted:
>:::::::::: Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>::::::::::
>::::::::::: GARLIC - BETTER THAN STATIN DRUGS FOR PREVENTING HEART
>::::::::::: ATTACKS
>:::::::::
>:::::::::: So what if you take both?
>:::::::::
>::::::::: Consult, in person, a duly trained and licensed health
>::::::::: professional in your jurisdiction. It will be better if
>::::::::: he or she is also trained in the use of herbs and wholistic
>::::::::: health systems such as Ayurved -- an Ayurvedic physician
>::::::::: with an MD is my recommendation.
>:::::::::
>::::::::: Jai Maharaj
>::::::::: http://www.mantra.com/jai
>::::::::: Om Shanti
>::::::::
>:::::::: I didn't see the original post. Do you have a link to a valid
>:::::::: study showing the beneficial effects of garlic?
>::::::::
>:::::::: It was promoted for cholesterol lowering a few years ago, but
>:::::::: subsequent studies showed it had no effect.
>::::::::
>:::::::: GG
>:::::::
>::::::: Since when is cholesterol a decent marker for heart disease?
>::::::: Half of all heart attack incidents occur in people without
>::::::: elevated cholesterol. Garlic is a natural diuretic, which is
>::::::: at least one of its beneficial effects in human health.
>:::::::
>::::::: PeterB
>:::::::
>::::::
>:::::: There are many natural diuretics (I'm drinking a cup of coffee
>:::::: right now...an excellent diuretic). But, the claim is that
>:::::: garlic can "prevent heart attacks". Can you provide us with
>:::::: links to studies that back up this claim?
>::::::
>:::::: GG
>:::::
>::::: Of course not. Certainly no study that compared garlic consumption
>::::: levels with heart attack rates, even in a
>::::: retrospective/observational design.
>::::: --
>::::: Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>:::
>::: Its ability to reduce cardiovascular risk factors has been
>::: estimated in studies based on its effects on cardiovascular risk
>::: factors. This is just one example:
>:::
>::: Franco OH et al, The Polymeal: a more natural, safer, and probably
>::: tastier (than the Polypill) strategy to reduce cardiovascular
>::: disease by more than 75%. BMJ 2004;329:1447-1450.
>:::
>::: "Daily consumption of garlic reduced total cholesterol
>::: concentrations by
>::: 0.44 mmol/l (17.1 mg/dl), corresponding to 66% of the reduction
>::: (0.66 mmol/l) that was found to be associated with a 38% reduction
>::: in cardiovascular disease at age 50.Therefore, we considered 66% of
>::: the effect previously reported and assumed a reduction of 25%
>::: (21.7% to 27.7%) in cardiovascular disease events for garlic. Most
>::: of the randomised controlled trials included in the meta-analysis
>::: used 600-900 mg/day of dried garlic powder preparations, equivalent
>::: to 1.8-2.7 g/day of fresh garlic. We selected 2.7 g/day of fresh
>::: garlic for the Polymeal. Consuming 68 g/day of almonds produced
>::: half the reduction in total cholesterol (10 mg/dl) observed with
>::: garlic, so we assumed a reduction in cardiovascular disease half
>::: the one assigned to garlic."
>::
>:: The Franco et al. paper was an April 1st spoof.
>
>It was published in December. Not very likely.
My mistake. I was hurrying and confused it with a similar spoof.
>:: And it's weak evidence when one says that risk factors are
>:: improved rather than that the relative odds of events improved.
>:: When one claims that something improves heart disease mortality as
>:: much as a statin does, the evidence needs to be comparable.
>:: Statins don't just reduce cholesterol.
>
>Nor does garlic just reduce cholesterol. It works also by other mechanisms,
>e.g. reducing clotting etc.
But garlic hasn't been shown to "work." There's the rub. When
someone says it's as good as a statin, they need to be ablr e to
show that it reduces MIs and strokes and cardiac death by about
the same amounts that statins do and in the same populations.
> I have noticed that you have a tendency to
>oppose everything.
Please clarify. I probably eat a diet similar to the one you
advocate. But I can recognize when advocates engage in hyperbole.
Most of the studies that are cited over and over don't prove what
they are claimed to.
If you want to state that you can drop your statin and just add
more garlic, you really need to have a randomized study. Randomize
a bunch of people into two groups. Give one a placebo every day
and give the other a garlic pill. Wait a few years or so and see
if the garlic group has 30% fewer heart attacks and strokes and
cardiac fatalities are lower.
Governments have failed to fund the necessary studies for public
health.
It's fine to advocate garlic as a replacement for statins if you
ackowledge that there are no data to show how cardiac morbidity
and mortality are changed by consuming garlic--that you only have
effects on markers and risk factors.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
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