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My first three weeks of Yoga: first impressions and some questions
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| mamadu@islamabad.net 2006-08-22, 4:28 pm |
| Dear friends,
Since you were so helpful in orienting me in my first steps in Yoga I
have decided to share with you my first impressions after about three
weeks of Yoga and to ask you some questions along.
In case you have not seen my first post here, I am a 42 year old male,
6"3 for 250 pounds which puts me at about 50 pounds overweight.
Unsurprizingly, I have regular back aches and, according to my doctor,
I might have to vertebrea gradually merging which should take a decade
or so. I live in the boonies with no access to a yoga teacher (at
least not a certified one) and I do not have the means to travel to
work with one.
I have been practising morning and evening with two 'Yoga Zone' DVD:
"streching for flexibility" in the morning and "evening stress release"
in the evening. On these videos Charles and Lisa Matkin give very
clear instuctions with a pleasant musical background and some awesome
scenes from Jamaica. I was told that the type of Yoga represented in
these sessions is ISHTA Yoga created by Alan Finger. I do one 20
minutes session in the morning and one 20 minutes session in the
evening. When I have time I try to do one 40 minutes session (there
are two sessions per DVD).
I was abolutely stunned,floored and shocked at how totally wonderful I
felt not only after, but even *during* each session. Of course, some
asanas, such as the downward facing dog, are not easy when hands have
to support 250 pounds of weight, but even the harder ones are doable.
In fact, I do them every day now.
Speaking of asanas, I was somewhat surprized how short some of them
are. I thought that Yoga postures are typically held for 90 seconds.
Am I wrong?
I also love the sequences of postures, I think they are called
vinyasas(?). But more then anything I love the pranayama breathing
techniques (since I am free diver with over 30 years of free diving
experience I am used to controlling my breath very carefully).
I am, however, a little confused by the various techniques used. The
'Yoga Zone' DVDs very much stress what they call 'ujaic' (spelling?)
breath in which you breathe in through the back of your throat but they
do not at all show the sequence of 'deep breathing + chest breathing +
high breathing' nor to they ever mention the 1:4:2 ratio of
inhalation:retention:exhalation (learned about all this in book by
Swami Vishnu-devanada 'The Complete Book of Yoga").
Why these differences? Is the 'ujaic' (sp?) breath for asanas and
vinyasas and the pranayama breath ratios for meditation?
By the way, for me - as a free diver used to holding my breath in dives
of 90 feet and deeper - the most relaxed and natural ratio is 5:20:10
but even here 5 seconds for inhalation feels a little short and
requiers a more forceful inhalation. To really relax I would prefer a
10:20:10 ratio.
Which should I use?
Also during meditation I have a hard time sitting siddhasan/adept,
mukthasanguptasan or even in hte sukhasan/easy poses not because of my
feet, but because of my back which strains to remain straight for 10
minutes. What should I do? Should I sit with my back to a wall, or
should I meditate in the savasan/corpse pose?
I note that while Swami Vishnu-devanada specifically reccommends the
savasan/corpse pose for meditation/relaxation Richard Hittleman's books
(I have "weight control thought Yoga", 'Guide to Yoga Meditation" and
Be Young with Yoga") do not and only suggest sitting poses.
Speaking of staining: how much is enough and how much is too much? In
many strenghthening asanas, such as warrior II or the plank, there is
an element of effort, of muscular straining, built in - this is why
these are strenghtening asanas. Even asanas which rotate of flex the
body have an element of effort built into them. In fact the
instructors on the Yoga Zone DVDs specifically encourage you to go a
little further with each exhalation.
But I have also heard from many people, including in this group, that
one should never 'push' in Yoga, and that doing so might not only be
useless, but actually harmful and counterproductive.
So how much is enough and how far is too far?
This is a very important question for me since I have a strong tendency
to push myself to the limit no matter what I do.
However, I would very much want to find a Yoga DVD for beginners in
which the asanas are held for much longer times and with sessions
lasting 60 minutes instead of only 20 with a long relaxed meditation in
the end. Could anyone reccommend such a DVD?
Anyway - thanks for reading this long post and thanks even more for any
and all suggestions/advice/warnings/pointers you might have for me.
Kind regards,
Mamadu
==>>PS: my email is down so please answer to the group - thanks! <<==
| |
| omjaroo 2006-08-22, 9:29 pm |
| Hi mamadu,
> Anyway - thanks for reading this long post and thanks even more for any
> and all suggestions/advice/warnings/pointers you might have for me.
I'm glad to hear from you and I thoroughly enjoyed reading your "long"
post!
> I was abolutely stunned,floored and shocked at how totally wonderful I
> felt not only after, but even *during* each session.
I'm happy to hear that you are having a great experience with hatha
yoga! And I am especially delighted to hear that you have Hittleman and
Swami Vishnu-devanada. These are both real yoga and can take you as far
as you care to go...
> I am, however, a little confused by the various techniques used.
> Why these differences?
This kind of confusion is in part why it is often advised that one
choose a single path and then stay on it. That is, to avoid making a
"soup" of differing disciplines, styles or teachers. In this regard I
would suggest that if Hittleman works for you that you follow his
program to a tee for at least a year. If you can do Hittleman really
well and still feel you need to get deeper then go for Swami
Vishnu-devanada and Sivananda. Or vice/versa if you wish. But pick one
or the other and follow the program closely, carefully and completely.
Regarding pranayama. It is a very extensive and sophisticated area of
study and practice. Pranayama is very powerful stuff and it is the one
area of yoga where dangerous things can happen. Once again I suggest
you follow Hittleman's or Devananda's instructions. Do not mix these
techniques up until you have real solid experience, practice and
understanding! I don't know what techniques are being taught in the
videos but I can say without reserve that Hittleman and Devananda are
teaching solid, classic and level appropriate pranayama and that there
is no danger in their practice. If what's being taught in the DVD is
different then Hittleman or Devenanda, then I suggest you follow
Hittleman or Devananda instead.
> Speaking of staining: how much is enough and how much is too much?
Give yourself a break and keep in mind that you are learning. Part of
the process is to develop discipline and consistency. Yoga is not a
race. Pushing yourself "to the limit" in everything you do is in part
what had got you exactly where you are. In yoga one needs to be open to
learning a different way to approach learning and practicing. Take a
program and follow it. Don't try to create your own; not yet. For the
moment read and heed the suggestions and advice of your chosen
teacher/program, on how to proceed, even if this requires you making an
adjustment in your desire. This "adjustment" is part of the learning
process. You can't short circuit it or speed it up, this will only slow
you down. Both Hittleman and Devananda will indicate the appropriate
amount of effort needed. They will also indicate the proper length of
the "hold" as well as when and how much you can increase your hold.
Eventually you will develop your own sense of how far and how hard. At
this stage it is best to follow the directions closely. One way to
increase the time spent in your routine is to, slow down. Move very
softly, slowly, smoothly in rhythm with a relaxed breath. You can also
introduce complete breath standing and Surya Namaskara (which can be
done slowly or as hard and fast as you can handle) and a short
meditation or prayer session at the front of your routine. No need to
hurry to be anywhere. It's about learning to recognize, appreciate and
enjoy where you are in the moment :-)
> Also during meditation I have a hard time sitting siddhasan
If sitting on the floor is uncomfortable, use a chair, sit on the edge
of a bed, stand-up, sit on a pillow, use a prayer bench or if you are
not disposed to fall asleep then you can lay down. It doesn't really
matter, except that you should be as comfortable as possible so that
aches and pains don't compete for your minds attention when you are
trying to focus/meditate.
OK bud, there's my 2cents worth. Good luck!
Jared
o
^
| |
| Sirgerry 2006-08-23, 4:29 pm |
| "Regarding pranayama. It is a very extensive and sophisticated area of
study and practice. Pranayama is very powerful stuff and it is the one
area of yoga where dangerous things can happen."
How can Pranayama be dangerous? I'm also new to Yoga and have been
doing a video regularly for a month, it includes altenate nostril
breathing, which I do some 3 times a day, is this OK?
Peace
| |
| omjaroo 2006-08-23, 4:29 pm |
| Sirgerry wrote:
> "Regarding pranayama. It is a very extensive and sophisticated area of
> study and practice. Pranayama is very powerful stuff and it is the one
> area of yoga where dangerous things can happen."
>
>
> How can Pranayama be dangerous? I'm also new to Yoga and have been
> doing a video regularly for a month, it includes altenate nostril
> breathing, which I do some 3 times a day, is this OK?
>
> Peace
Sirgerry,
I am certain in the normal course of responsible and skilled hatha
training that pranayama will never represent any problem. Its like
water, if its respected and skillfully navigated, it is generally safe.
If one disrespecst or trifles with water it can do damage quickly.
If you are following the instructions of your program carefully then I
don't see any cause for concern. Where one can get into problems is by
thinking, well if 3 times a day for 5 minutes is good, then 10 times a
day for 20 minutes would be much better. Self prescribing or modifying
pranayama exercises when you are learning is just not a good idea.
The breath is connected to both the physical and the subtle energy
currents that exist in each person. Manipulation of breath can have
profound effects both for good and for bad. You can do a google search
on [ pranayama+dangerous ] and read the same warning and why it can be
dangerous.
I made my warning to mamadu because he mentioned that he has a habit of
pushing things to the limit and pranayama is one area of yoga you don't
want to do that.
Jared
o
^
| |
| Jim.Yoga 2006-08-23, 4:29 pm |
| Hi Mamadu,
Wow you have a great deal of questions which are all very good. Let me
answer generally first since this is a better approach.
First - There are many types and variations of yoga. Even
traditionally there were many forms and they have been expanded upon
over the years.
This is what I like to tell my new students:
(1) The quality of your breath dictates the quality of your practice.
In other words a deep long breath should be the goal. The inhale will
make space internally so that you can exhale to move a little further
in the direction of the pose. (Vinyasa is a moving practice so you
focus on the transitons between the poses and the breath as much as the
poses themsevles. Iyengar type of practice has you holding poses for
several minutes with attention to alignment and less concern about the
breath.)
(2) Practice in a manner that will not prevent you from practicing the
next day. In other words you should not go so deep that you are sore
the next day and cannot practice in a similar manner.
(3) Progress is not slow, but you have a life time of habits both
physcally and mentally that will not completely change in a few months.
The practice is a life long journey that will transform your mind and
body. Practice in a manner that makes you feel good during and
afterward.
Good luck on your journey - Jim
mamadu@islamabad.net wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> Since you were so helpful in orienting me in my first steps in Yoga I
> have decided to share with you my first impressions after about three
> weeks of Yoga and to ask you some questions along.
>
> In case you have not seen my first post here, I am a 42 year old male,
> 6"3 for 250 pounds which puts me at about 50 pounds overweight.
> Unsurprizingly, I have regular back aches and, according to my doctor,
> I might have to vertebrea gradually merging which should take a decade
> or so. I live in the boonies with no access to a yoga teacher (at
> least not a certified one) and I do not have the means to travel to
> work with one.
>
> I have been practising morning and evening with two 'Yoga Zone' DVD:
> "streching for flexibility" in the morning and "evening stress release"
> in the evening. On these videos Charles and Lisa Matkin give very
> clear instuctions with a pleasant musical background and some awesome
> scenes from Jamaica. I was told that the type of Yoga represented in
> these sessions is ISHTA Yoga created by Alan Finger. I do one 20
> minutes session in the morning and one 20 minutes session in the
> evening. When I have time I try to do one 40 minutes session (there
> are two sessions per DVD).
>
> I was abolutely stunned,floored and shocked at how totally wonderful I
> felt not only after, but even *during* each session. Of course, some
> asanas, such as the downward facing dog, are not easy when hands have
> to support 250 pounds of weight, but even the harder ones are doable.
> In fact, I do them every day now.
>
> Speaking of asanas, I was somewhat surprized how short some of them
> are. I thought that Yoga postures are typically held for 90 seconds.
> Am I wrong?
>
> I also love the sequences of postures, I think they are called
> vinyasas(?). But more then anything I love the pranayama breathing
> techniques (since I am free diver with over 30 years of free diving
> experience I am used to controlling my breath very carefully).
>
> I am, however, a little confused by the various techniques used. The
> 'Yoga Zone' DVDs very much stress what they call 'ujaic' (spelling?)
> breath in which you breathe in through the back of your throat but they
> do not at all show the sequence of 'deep breathing + chest breathing +
> high breathing' nor to they ever mention the 1:4:2 ratio of
> inhalation:retention:exhalation (learned about all this in book by
> Swami Vishnu-devanada 'The Complete Book of Yoga").
>
> Why these differences? Is the 'ujaic' (sp?) breath for asanas and
> vinyasas and the pranayama breath ratios for meditation?
>
> By the way, for me - as a free diver used to holding my breath in dives
> of 90 feet and deeper - the most relaxed and natural ratio is 5:20:10
> but even here 5 seconds for inhalation feels a little short and
> requiers a more forceful inhalation. To really relax I would prefer a
> 10:20:10 ratio.
>
> Which should I use?
>
> Also during meditation I have a hard time sitting siddhasan/adept,
> mukthasanguptasan or even in hte sukhasan/easy poses not because of my
> feet, but because of my back which strains to remain straight for 10
> minutes. What should I do? Should I sit with my back to a wall, or
> should I meditate in the savasan/corpse pose?
>
> I note that while Swami Vishnu-devanada specifically reccommends the
> savasan/corpse pose for meditation/relaxation Richard Hittleman's books
> (I have "weight control thought Yoga", 'Guide to Yoga Meditation" and
> Be Young with Yoga") do not and only suggest sitting poses.
>
> Speaking of staining: how much is enough and how much is too much? In
> many strenghthening asanas, such as warrior II or the plank, there is
> an element of effort, of muscular straining, built in - this is why
> these are strenghtening asanas. Even asanas which rotate of flex the
> body have an element of effort built into them. In fact the
> instructors on the Yoga Zone DVDs specifically encourage you to go a
> little further with each exhalation.
>
> But I have also heard from many people, including in this group, that
> one should never 'push' in Yoga, and that doing so might not only be
> useless, but actually harmful and counterproductive.
>
> So how much is enough and how far is too far?
>
> This is a very important question for me since I have a strong tendency
> to push myself to the limit no matter what I do.
>
> However, I would very much want to find a Yoga DVD for beginners in
> which the asanas are held for much longer times and with sessions
> lasting 60 minutes instead of only 20 with a long relaxed meditation in
> the end. Could anyone reccommend such a DVD?
>
> Anyway - thanks for reading this long post and thanks even more for any
> and all suggestions/advice/warnings/pointers you might have for me.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mamadu
>
> ==>>PS: my email is down so please answer to the group - thanks! <<==
| |
| hrwire@gmail.com 2006-08-24, 8:28 am |
| Hello Mamadu,
> I was abolutely stunned,floored and shocked at how totally wonderful I
> felt not only after, but even *during* each session. Of course, some
> asanas, such as the downward facing dog, are not easy when hands have
> to support 250 pounds of weight, but even the harder ones are doable.
> In fact, I do them every day now.
> Speaking of asanas, I was somewhat surprized how short some of them
> are. I thought that Yoga postures are typically held for 90 seconds.
> Am I wrong?
Good to hear that your yoga sessions have started off well. When you're
at the beginner stage it is not necessary to exert yourself. As far as
I know asanas like Sarvangasana are the ones that can be done for a
long time upto 10 mins. You can start by holding the asana about 50% of
what's mentioned for that particular asana, later in about a week's
time when you're comfortable you can extend holding on to the asana for
a longer time. Always do the Shavasana when you're tired, well this
applies for your last question as to how much is too much.
> I am, however, a little confused by the various techniques used. The
> 'Yoga Zone' DVDs very much stress what they call 'ujaic' (spelling?)
> breath in which you breathe in through the back of your throat but they
> do not at all show the sequence of 'deep breathing + chest breathing +
> high breathing' nor to they ever mention the 1:4:2 ratio of
> inhalation:retention:exhalation (learned about all this in book by
> Swami Vishnu-devanada 'The Complete Book of Yoga").
>
> Why these differences? Is the 'ujaic' (sp?) breath for asanas and
> vinyasas and the pranayama breath ratios for meditation?
I think they're referring to Ujjaini breath which unfortunately isn't
part of my pranayama routine. I've been doing pranayamas for about six
months now.
One of them is the nadi-shodana pranayam which follows the 1:4:2 ratio.
There's a brief explanation for the Ujjaini breathing at this site
http://www.holistic-online.com/Yoga...thing-ujjai.htm
Alternatively you can look for other sites, you can get a lot of links
by typing "Ujjaini"
Pranayama is a good pre-requisite for meditation especially when you're
doing the alternate nostril breathing exercises, similar technique is
used for meditation when you try to follow your breath.
Try doing just a couple of Pranayams like Kapal-Bhati and Anulom Vilom
Pranayams(Alternate-nostril breathing) which are pretty safe, actually
my first initiation with Yoga was with Pranayams by watching them on TV
and later started doing the asanas. Also by doing these, you can lose a
fair amout of weight which will make it easier for you to sit on a
particular meditative posture.
I do the Sivananda's integral model of Yoga with 20 mins each of
asanas, pranayama and meditation. In case you are doing Pranayams, this
is a good routine to follow
Asanas-shavasana-Pranayams-shavasana-meditation
As you've mentioned about the ratio that you used to follow while free
diving, these Pranayams might be easy for you since the nadi shodana
Pranayam with ratio that you mentioned was sort of like an advanced
level for me. I follow the 1:4:2:2 ratio which is
inhalation-retention-exhalation-retention after breath
Sharath
| |
| mamadu@islamabad.net 2006-08-24, 8:28 am |
| Dear friends,
Thank you very much for all your kind and interesting replies!
Since you have been so patient with this newbie, I would like to
continue this dialogue by looking a little further into some of the
issues which you have raised.
Omjaroo writes:
This kind of confusion is in part why it is often advised that one
choose a single path and then stay on it. That is, to avoid making a
"soup" of differing disciplines, styles or teachers (...) If what's
being taught in the DVD is different then Hittleman or Devenanda, then
I suggest you follow Hittleman or Devananda instead.
I understand the logic behind this, but this is not very practicable
for me. While yoga books are no doubt better than DVDs, I have found
the ISHTA yoga DVDs of Yoga Zone the single most helpful tool to use,
far, far more convenient than books. Of course, I do not mind reading
up on any subject, and the Hittleman and Devenanda books are truly
excellent, to *practice* I find DVDs absolutely irreplaceable. All the
Yoga Zone DVD show *two* senior yoga instructors doing each
asana/vinyasa, one of them the harder way, one of them the easier way.
In many cases one instructor demonstrates the technique while the other
stands up and shows details. In these DVDs the instructors constantly
give you a rythm for ujaic breathing throughout the 20 minutes of each
session. I simply cannot imagine doing asanas/vinyasas while flipping
through the pages of a book and reading. Lastly - ISHTA really helped
me so far and members of this group have indicated to me that Alan
Finger's 'heart is in the right place' and that he combined Hatha,
Tantra and Ayurveda techniques into one coherent method.
Why should I change? Should I not consider the DVDs as *my* main
'authority' on how to do things?
Jim Yoga writes:
The quality of your breath dictates the quality of your practice. In
other words a deep long breath should be the goal.
Yes, but I also notice that the deeper and longer breaths I take the
more muscular efforts go into it and the more pressure there is from
retaining the large amount of air in my lungs. None of which I mind in
the least - after 30+ years of free diving I *enjoy* this feeling very
much - but I wonder if that is helpful as a *relaxation* technique.
Would very small and shallow breaths not be more relaxing?
hrwire writes:
I do the Sivananda's integral model of Yoga with 20 mins each of
asanas, pranayama and meditation. In case you are doing Pranayams, this
is a good routine to follow
Asanas-shavasana-Pranayams-shavasana-meditation
Sounds fantastic. Do you know of a good DVD showing such a series and
guiding a yoga student throught them?
A last question (-: for the time being :-) to you all:
How important is the morning/evening 'Sun Salutation' technique in
yoga? I hear a lot about it, but the ISHTA DVDs do not mention it.
Should I consider it as a 'warming up' exercies before the real thing
strats or should I stay clear of it in order not to mix
techniques/schools?
Many, many thanks in advance & kind regards,
M
| |
|
| Hi Sirgerry,
How can Pranayama be dangerous?
It is very easy, if one tries to hold his/her breath without having any
bandha,then danger starts. So easy ...
With compassion,
Puma
Sirgerry wrote:
> "Regarding pranayama. It is a very extensive and sophisticated area of
> study and practice. Pranayama is very powerful stuff and it is the one
> area of yoga where dangerous things can happen."
>
>
> How can Pranayama be dangerous? I'm also new to Yoga and have been
> doing a video regularly for a month, it includes altenate nostril
> breathing, which I do some 3 times a day, is this OK?
>
> Peace
| |
| Sirgerry 2006-08-24, 4:28 pm |
| Thanks a lot for the advice, to omjaroo and puma, I also have a
tendency to want to do things fast and get results in a week. With Yoga
I am learning to change that, and I will heed yoiur adivce.
Peace
| |
|
| puma wrote:
> How can Pranayama be dangerous?
Don't try it on an escalator!
> It is very easy, if one tries to hold his/her breath without having any
> bandha,then danger starts.
And bandha is nearly $3/gallon these days...
| |
|
| Hi Fu`do,
Yes you are right about the BANDHA but perhaps your bandha is for
women PATAGONIA BANDHA...Himm
What I am talking about is TRIYABANDHA that is Uddiyana-Mula-Jalandhar
BANDHAS.
puma
Fu'do wrote:
> puma wrote:
>
>
> Don't try it on an escalator!
>
>
> And bandha is nearly $3/gallon these days...
| |
| hrwire@gmail.com 2006-08-25, 2:23 am |
| Hello Mamadu,
There's no DVD's from Sivananda website but there are a lot of books at
the Divine Life society website dlshq.org at the downloads section and
they're free.
On the internet I came across a couple of DVD's, one called 50plus Yoga
based on Integral Yoga
http://www.yoga.com/store/product.a...&Category_ID=95
and the other one being a Big yoga DVD
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/product/video2.asp
You might find a lot more at Amazon, some of the results may include
Sri Aurobindo's cuz that goes by the name Integral Yoga too.
I haven't followed any DVD as such but after reading the book by
Sivananda, I've started following Integral Yoga.
As for the Sun-salutation it is an important part of the Hatha Yoga and
good for warm-ups. I begin my yoga session everyday with this. For
poses, each can be devoted 15 secs, so it takes about 3 mins for the
whole sequence or a round. One can do the Sun-salutation for a max of 6
rounds. After I complete this, it clears me of all the nasal blockages
and sets the stage for the pranayam, hence deep breathing becomes very
easy. Actually I'm surprised that I could breathe like that!
Click on my profile and the link to the yahoo 360 and then view the
blog, well not really a blog but stuff related to Yoga.
Pranayams may be difficult if you're over 50, but it hasn't been
difficult to do the Triyabandha also called the Mahabandha. I'm 33 now
and the Mahabandha is part of my daily pranayam routine where I do this
bandha and retain my breath for about 20 secs which is part of Bahya
Pranayam.
Sharath
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