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Home > Archive > Yoga > July 2006 > For whom mantras are necessary?
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For whom mantras are necessary?
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| One of our friends here has said the following :
"""When yoga is part of Hinduism, how can you stay away from the
mantras,
mantras have specific sounds which provide physical vibrations in the
body. If people can't pronounce these mantras properly, then it's of no
use. """
Whether above or Siva Samhita is correct, you have to decide!
Now lets us see what Siva Samhita says Narrated from B.K.S Iyengar from
his book Light On Yoga 1979 revised edition page 27....
" The Siva Samhita divides sadhakas ( pupils or aspirans) into four
classes. They are (1) mrdu (feeble), (2) madyama (average), (3)
adhimatra (superior) and (4) adhimatratama (the supreme one). The last,
the highest, is alone able to cross beyond the ocean of the manifest
world.
The feeble seekers are those who lack enthusiasm, criticise their
teachers, are rapacious, inclined to bad action, eat much,are in the
power of women, unstable, cowardly, ill, depedent, speak harshly, have
weak characters and lack virility. the guru (Teacher or Master) guides
such seekers in the path of Mantra Yoga only. With much effort, the
sadhaka can reach enlightenment in twelve years..... "
As you see, this classical text book on hata yoga, clearly explains who
are going to use
mantras... So if we refer to our above friend`s conclusion all the
foreigners who cannot pronounce Hindu words correctly,,, can never not
get into hatha yoga. But according to Siva Samhita only mrdu aspirans
need mantra yoga anyway...And who accepts being a feeble seeker!
With compassion,
Puma
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| hrwire@gmail.com 2006-07-25, 2:27 am |
| Please read the post prior to my reply, I think you will get the answer
why I mentioned about mantras.
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| howdydave 2006-07-25, 4:27 pm |
| puma wrote:
> One of our friends here has said the following :
>
> """When yoga is part of Hinduism, how can you stay away from the
> mantras,
> mantras have specific sounds which provide physical vibrations in the
> body. If people can't pronounce these mantras properly, then it's of no
> use. """
>
> Whether above or Siva Samhita is correct, you have to decide!
>
> Now lets us see what Siva Samhita says Narrated from B.K.S Iyengar from
> his book Light On Yoga 1979 revised edition page 27....
>
> " The Siva Samhita divides sadhakas ( pupils or aspirans) into four
> classes. They are (1) mrdu (feeble), (2) madyama (average), (3)
> adhimatra (superior) and (4) adhimatratama (the supreme one). The last,
> the highest, is alone able to cross beyond the ocean of the manifest
> world.
>
> The feeble seekers are those who lack enthusiasm, criticise their
> teachers, are rapacious, inclined to bad action, eat much,are in the
> power of women, unstable, cowardly, ill, depedent, speak harshly, have
> weak characters and lack virility. the guru (Teacher or Master) guides
> such seekers in the path of Mantra Yoga only. With much effort, the
> sadhaka can reach enlightenment in twelve years..... "
>
> As you see, this classical text book on hata yoga, clearly explains who
> are going to use
> mantras... So if we refer to our above friend`s conclusion all the
> foreigners who cannot pronounce Hindu words correctly,,, can never not
> get into hatha yoga. But according to Siva Samhita only mrdu aspirans
> need mantra yoga anyway...And who accepts being a feeble seeker!
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
Howdy Puma!
Those who ADMIT to/ACCEPT being feeble seekers are (IMO) the
most dillagent, advanced and insiteful seekers. They are the ones who
have
discovered the vastness of their own ignorance.
No pomposity on their part -- only wonder!
Dave
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| howdydave 2006-07-25, 4:27 pm |
|
puma wrote:
> One of our friends here has said the following :
>
> """When yoga is part of Hinduism, how can you stay away from the
> mantras,
> mantras have specific sounds which provide physical vibrations in the
> body. If people can't pronounce these mantras properly, then it's of no
> use. """
>
> Whether above or Siva Samhita is correct, you have to decide!
>
> Now lets us see what Siva Samhita says Narrated from B.K.S Iyengar from
> his book Light On Yoga 1979 revised edition page 27....
>
> " The Siva Samhita divides sadhakas ( pupils or aspirans) into four
> classes. They are (1) mrdu (feeble), (2) madyama (average), (3)
> adhimatra (superior) and (4) adhimatratama (the supreme one). The last,
> the highest, is alone able to cross beyond the ocean of the manifest
> world.
>
> The feeble seekers are those who lack enthusiasm, criticise their
> teachers, are rapacious, inclined to bad action, eat much,are in the
> power of women, unstable, cowardly, ill, depedent, speak harshly, have
> weak characters and lack virility. the guru (Teacher or Master) guides
> such seekers in the path of Mantra Yoga only. With much effort, the
> sadhaka can reach enlightenment in twelve years..... "
>
> As you see, this classical text book on hata yoga, clearly explains who
> are going to use
> mantras... So if we refer to our above friend`s conclusion all the
> foreigners who cannot pronounce Hindu words correctly,,, can never not
> get into hatha yoga. But according to Siva Samhita only mrdu aspirans
> need mantra yoga anyway...And who accepts being a feeble seeker!
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
Howdy Puma!
Those who ADMIT to/ACCEPT being feeble seekers are (IMO) the
most dillagent, advanced and insiteful seekers. They are the ones
who have discovered the vastness of their own ignorance.
No pomposity on their part -- only wonder!
Siva Samhita's words might very well be nothing but a trap
for the proud.
Dave
| |
|
| Howdy Dave,
I would join your thoughts about the trap for the proud, but guru is
the one who decides
his/her aspirans who belong to which class...So aspirans are under
gurus` direction...
So what is your opinion on this ?
Puma
howdydave wrote:
> puma wrote:
>
> Howdy Puma!
>
> Those who ADMIT to/ACCEPT being feeble seekers are (IMO) the
> most dillagent, advanced and insiteful seekers. They are the ones
> who have discovered the vastness of their own ignorance.
>
> No pomposity on their part -- only wonder!
>
> Siva Samhita's words might very well be nothing but a trap
> for the proud.
>
>
>
> Dave
| |
| howdydave 2006-07-25, 4:27 pm |
| Howdy Puma!
For many of us (myself included) our gurus are the authors
of the ancient texts. Thus I would not be a bit surprised if
there are some hidden "detours" in the original texts that
might stick the unwary student into an infinate loop and
keep him/her there until (s)he gets the concept right.
Dave
puma wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Howdy Dave,
>
> I would join your thoughts about the trap for the proud, but guru is
> the one who decides
> his/her aspirans who belong to which class...So aspirans are under
> gurus` direction...
> So what is your opinion on this ?
>
> Puma
>
> howdydave wrote:
| |
|
| Dave,
Thanks,it is very good reply, and satisfactory explanation.
Puma
howdydave wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Howdy Puma!
>
> For many of us (myself included) our gurus are the authors
> of the ancient texts. Thus I would not be a bit surprised if
> there are some hidden "detours" in the original texts that
> might stick the unwary student into an infinate loop and
> keep him/her there until (s)he gets the concept right.
>
> Dave
>
>
> puma wrote:
| |
| howdydave 2006-07-25, 4:27 pm |
| Along those same lines...
Did you ever wonder why the Yoga Sutras are
presented in the order that they are?
Most teaching methods start with the simple
and advance to the more complex!
Patanjali sequence is:
Samadhi,
Means,
Glory.
Transcentental-Aloneness.
Going from the most obscure/difficult to the more
easily grasped/elemental concepts.
The only thing that presenting the concepts in
this sequence can do is to confuse the unwary!
Dave
howdydave wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Howdy Puma!
>
> For many of us (myself included) our gurus are the authors
> of the ancient texts. Thus I would not be a bit surprised if
> there are some hidden "detours" in the original texts that
> might stick the unwary student into an infinate loop and
> keep him/her there until (s)he gets the concept right.
>
> Dave
>
>
> puma wrote:
| |
|
|
"puma" <sesli.atbisey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153774530.239712.122930@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> As you see, this classical text book on hata yoga, clearly explains who
> are going to use
there is another text, called the shiv-sutras. it defines the mantra as that
which protects the mind. any repetitive thought which acts as a shield
against our negative habits, thus could be called a mantra.
| |
| hrwire@gmail.com 2006-07-26, 2:24 am |
|
> Whether above or Siva Samhita is correct, you have to decide!
>
> Now lets us see what Siva Samhita says Narrated from B.K.S Iyengar from
> his book Light On Yoga 1979 revised edition page 27....
>
> " The Siva Samhita divides sadhakas ( pupils or aspirans) into four
> classes. They are (1) mrdu (feeble), (2) madyama (average), (3)
> adhimatra (superior) and (4) adhimatratama (the supreme one). The last,
> the highest, is alone able to cross beyond the ocean of the manifest
> world.
>
> The feeble seekers are those who lack enthusiasm, criticise their
> teachers, are rapacious, inclined to bad action, eat much,are in the
> power of women, unstable, cowardly, ill, depedent, speak harshly, have
> weak characters and lack virility. the guru (Teacher or Master) guides
> such seekers in the path of Mantra Yoga only. With much effort, the
> sadhaka can reach enlightenment in twelve years..... "
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
Please read the verses 241-243 of the same Siva Samhita that you
mentioned Puma. . Besides the translation is by BKS Iyengar, there are
hundreds of gurus like him here and definitely each one is going to
differ from the other. This text is dated to 1600's but there are lot
of other texts much older than these. Here it is
The severity of the Raja Yoga disciplines (found in the last Chapter V)
are readily noticeable in the culmination of Siva's teachings to the
would-be Yogi. In verses 241-243, Siva instructs that after the Yogi
obtains sacred Mantras from his Guru; then prays to Mother Parvati "in
accordance with the rites prescribed in the scriptures" and repeats the
Mantras three hundred thousand times. The Yogi then must perform a
Homa/fire puja chanting one hundred thousand times. Siva further
instructs the Yogi to seek to eventually complete up to ten million
repetitions of the sacred Mantras! And, again, in verse 259, Siva says:
All yogis aspiring for success must keep this Hathayoga a
zealously-guarded secret. It weakens when it becomes know to all.
Even if takes twelve years it is worth if one experiences enlightment.
It can be a very long period of time for people used to ordering
cappuchinos on the go.
To further elaborate, there are four stages of life, the first of which
takes twelve years.
They are Brahmacharya, Grihasthya, Vanaprastha and Sanyasa.
The first quarter of one's life, Brahmacharya (literally "grazing in
Brahma") is spent in celibate, sober and pure contemplation of life's
secrets under a Guru, building up body and mind for the
responsibilities of life. Brahmacharya is the phase where a human
obtains knowledge of God and the world, while learning to keep strict
control of his mind, senses and body.
Grihastya is the householder's stage, in which one marries and
satisfies karma and artha within a married life and professional
career.
Vanaprastha is gradual detachment from the material world, ostensibly
giving over duties to one's sons and daughters, spending more time in
contemplation of the truth, and making holy pilgrimages.
Finally, in sanyasa, the individual goes off into seclusion, to find
God through Yogic meditation and peacefully shed the body for the next
life.
Om Shanthi Shantihee
Sharath
| |
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| Hi Sharath,
Thanks for letting me know about the other verses of Siva
Samhita...This differences in gurus` ideas indicate a fact that where
the truth lies...Truth is with us,,,if we know how to look at the
objects and at the events,,,only using our own experiences and logic...
If we try to use others` reasonings we can not see ours` own
insight...This is what I deem about gurus and the text books anyway...
With compassion,
Puma
hrwire@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Please read the verses 241-243 of the same Siva Samhita that you
> mentioned Puma. . Besides the translation is by BKS Iyengar, there are
> hundreds of gurus like him here and definitely each one is going to
> differ from the other. This text is dated to 1600's but there are lot
> of other texts much older than these. Here it is
>
> The severity of the Raja Yoga disciplines (found in the last Chapter V)
> are readily noticeable in the culmination of Siva's teachings to the
> would-be Yogi. In verses 241-243, Siva instructs that after the Yogi
> obtains sacred Mantras from his Guru; then prays to Mother Parvati "in
> accordance with the rites prescribed in the scriptures" and repeats the
> Mantras three hundred thousand times. The Yogi then must perform a
> Homa/fire puja chanting one hundred thousand times. Siva further
> instructs the Yogi to seek to eventually complete up to ten million
> repetitions of the sacred Mantras! And, again, in verse 259, Siva says:
> All yogis aspiring for success must keep this Hathayoga a
> zealously-guarded secret. It weakens when it becomes know to all.
>
> Even if takes twelve years it is worth if one experiences enlightment.
> It can be a very long period of time for people used to ordering
> cappuchinos on the go.
>
> To further elaborate, there are four stages of life, the first of which
> takes twelve years.
> They are Brahmacharya, Grihasthya, Vanaprastha and Sanyasa.
>
> The first quarter of one's life, Brahmacharya (literally "grazing in
> Brahma") is spent in celibate, sober and pure contemplation of life's
> secrets under a Guru, building up body and mind for the
> responsibilities of life. Brahmacharya is the phase where a human
> obtains knowledge of God and the world, while learning to keep strict
> control of his mind, senses and body.
> Grihastya is the householder's stage, in which one marries and
> satisfies karma and artha within a married life and professional
> career.
> Vanaprastha is gradual detachment from the material world, ostensibly
> giving over duties to one's sons and daughters, spending more time in
> contemplation of the truth, and making holy pilgrimages.
> Finally, in sanyasa, the individual goes off into seclusion, to find
> God through Yogic meditation and peacefully shed the body for the next
> life.
>
> Om Shanthi Shantihee
> Sharath
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Hi Anon,
That might be correct in some times but if the mantra has a negative
aspect allready then it also keeps its negativity and it becomes a
shield for our negative thoughts..
Therefore one should be very carefull in this mantra biz, I presume...
Puma
anon wrote:
> "puma" <sesli.atbisey@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1153774530.239712.122930@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> there is another text, called the shiv-sutras. it defines the mantra as that
> which protects the mind. any repetitive thought which acts as a shield
> against our negative habits, thus could be called a mantra.
| |
| hrwire@gmail.com 2006-07-29, 2:28 am |
| In addition to the passage to the Siva Samhita, I'd like to refer to
the original eight fold path of Yoga.
The second path Niyama is the observance of five canons, viz.,
Saucha (internal and external purity),
Santosha (contentment),
Tapas (austerity),
Svadhyaya (study of religious books and repetitions of Mantras),
Ishvarapranidhana (self-surrender to God, and His worship).
Sharath
Om Shanthi
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