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Home > Archive > Yoga > May 2006 > IF GOD IS EVERYTHING....--FOR OMJAROO--
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IF GOD IS EVERYTHING....--FOR OMJAROO--
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| My dear friend OMJAROO states that " DARKNESS DOES NOT IN FACT EXIST.
THERE IS LIGHT,THERE IS THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT, WHICH WE SEMBOLIZE AS
DARKNESS. GOD IS LIGHT. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DEATH. DEATH DOES NOT
EXIST. WHAT WE SEMBOLIZE AS DEATH IS AN ABSENCE OF LIFE...."
Very well presentation, it is very fascinating story... But are these
really right?
IF GOD is light, and if light in some places is absent, that means GOD
is not there for some reason !... If HATE is the absence of LOVE and if
GOD IS LOVE, then this means that GOD is not there so this area becomes
full of HATE...That is GOD IS NOT EVERYWHERE,or GOD is like a matter
moving from one place to another, so some places are absent of GOD !
My dear Omjaroo obviously under the effect of some sort of religious
dogmas..Or religious POEMS as " GOD IS LOVE "....Mostly a very good
poetic explanation of GOD,but is not a complete explanation, it is
incomplete !
IF GOD IS EVERYTHING we also should realize that no matter how we feel,
EVERYTHING IS GOD... So HATE IS GOD too.
BAD IS GOD TOO.
UGLY IS GOD TOO.
DIRT IS GOD TOO..
What do you think my dear Jared, GOD realization clearly indicates
these facts...In other words GOD REALIZATION does not help to our
feelings,it does not act according to our wishes neither...IF YOU WANT
THE TRUTH YOU HAVE TO BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO BEAR ITS FACTS and WEIGHTS...
TRUTH IS LIKE THE SUN EVERYBODY IS NOT ABLE TO LOOK AT IT DIRECTLY!
BECAUSE EYES NEED SOME SORT OF AID TO LOOK AT IT...
Respectfully,
puma
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| On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:18:04 -0700, puma <sesli.atbisey@gmail.com> wrote:
> My dear friend OMJAROO states that " DARKNESS DOES NOT IN FACT EXIST.
> THERE IS LIGHT,THERE IS THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT, WHICH WE SEMBOLIZE AS
> DARKNESS. GOD IS LIGHT. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DEATH. DEATH DOES NOT
> EXIST. WHAT WE SEMBOLIZE AS DEATH IS AN ABSENCE OF LIFE...."
>
> Very well presentation, it is very fascinating story... But are these
> really right?
>
[trim]
Although you have dedicated this post to Omjaroo, I hope you don't mind if
I respond. The theory that you've attributed to Omjaroo is similar to St.
Augustine's explanation of evil as "the absence of good." I don't feel
that this kind of thinking is really satisfying (at least it isn't for me).
>
> IF GOD IS EVERYTHING we also should realize that no matter how we feel,
> EVERYTHING IS GOD... So HATE IS GOD too.
>
> BAD IS GOD TOO.
>
> UGLY IS GOD TOO.
>
> DIRT IS GOD TOO..
In my view, everything that is REAL proceeds from whatever divinity or God
there may be. But some realities depend upon human definition for their
existence (good, bad, ugly, beautiful are examples). Dirt, of course (if
you mean soil, earth) does not depend upon human definition for its
existence, and it is definitely God, too.
In my view, what we call darkness is as real as what we call light. In
fact, they are, in their essence, the same. No, I am not playing with
words. The darkest, "emptyest" "void" of the cosmos contains all in the
state of potentiality, and is the source of all. This "void" that is not
void is thus the dark womb of the universe, from which all of us, and all
that we see around us, come. We could call it pure energy, or we could
give it a name: Shakti, for example. In my book, it is holy.
All that moves from a state of potentiality into manifestation can be
described as the manifested universe: energy slowing down and congealing
into another state that we call matter; or we could give it a name: Shiva,
for example. In my book, this is also holy.
Since matter and energy, and any transitional states between them. derive
from the same ultimate source, they are equally holy. In fact, there is no
more difference between them than there is between water and ice. This is
why the ancients said that even Shiva worships Shakti, and that they are,
in fact, the same. Shiva IS Shakti, and Shakti IS Shiva. To fully grok the
existence of one, it is not necessary to negate the existence of the
"other."
AUM maha: ma:ta:, maha: vidya:
Sri kaliyai namah
AUM namah Sivaya
AUM Santih, Santih, Santih
AUM
>
> What do you think my dear Jared,
[trim]
Indeed, Jared, what do you think? And you, Puma? Can we agree on any of
this?
--Don
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yogabare
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| howdydave 2006-04-30, 1:23 am |
| Howdy!
Are you folks talking about God...
or are you talking about maya?
Dave
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| omjaroo 2006-04-30, 1:23 am |
| Puma my friend,
First of all let me apologize for not responding more quickly to your
posts. I have been away from my home for some weeks and I am currently
between two countries. I am using other people's computers and my days
are filled with dire necessities. Sometimes the best I can do is to
read the current posts and contemplate how I might address them.
Regarding your latest posts concerning God, let me say that I am in
complete agreement with you! If God is all that exists then God must be
both good and bad, etc. The killing of millions of Jews in Germany, the
starvation of 10's of millions of people in Stalin's Russia, the
butchering of a million souls in Rawanda; you name it, it's all God. I
understand this like few others. But I know that there is only God, God
is Love and therefore there is only Love. Yes, the rape and genocide in
the Balkans is Love... It must be, because there is only God. I don't
claim to understand it and I can't yet let go of the pain I feel when I
consider it. I am far from perfect. I still resist God and Love, in the
face of what I think is evil. But I am wrong and this I know :-( And
this is the plight of the jnani and indeed anyone who wants to know
God.
What I have been attempting to do in my posts is to take you to the
next step (higher level) in understanding why what you have been saying
is True.
>IF GOD is light, and if light in some places is absent, that means GOD
>is not there for some reason !...
There is no place where God is not. There is no place where light is
not. When I say that dark does not exist, I mean that it does not
exist! That there is nothing to discuss, because it isn't. You can not
even adress dark because it is a complete fiction (symbol). Believe me
this is a very difficult and subtle point. It can not be intellectually
understood. That is why I suggested meditating on it. This can only be
known. It is impossible to explain God, but this is what a jnani must
endeavor to do. If It exists then it can be explained. But then I have
said this before, quite recently :-)
>My dear Omjaroo obviously under the effect of some sort of religious
>dogmas.
This gives me a chuckle :-) I remember how surprised I was the first
time someone in alt.yoga characterized one of my posts as that of a
religious zealot. I was flabbergasted! If anyone had a clue who I am
and where I come from; what I've done; what I believe; and what I'll
do, they would not likely describe me as religious. I have absolutely
no use for religion. In my thinking (and experience) it is all bullshit
and quite a bit of it is as evil (which remember does not exist :-) as
anything can get...
>IF GOD IS EVERYTHING we also should realize that no matter how we feel,
>EVERYTHING IS GOD... So HATE IS GOD too.
Like I said, I agree. But I think that your understanding of what you
are saying is just beginning :-)
>What do you think my dear Jared, GOD realization clearly indicates
>these facts...In other words GOD REALIZATION does not help to our
>feelings,it does not act according to our wishes neither...IF YOU WANT
>THE TRUTH YOU HAVE TO BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO BEAR ITS FACTS and WEIGHTS...
Sometimes in the face of what I have to deal with each and every day,
I am tempted to end this cycle. The reason I don't is strictly
pragmatic; I know I will have to come back and start exactly where I
left off. So I won't buy a thing by terminating this journey early.
Besides I have a divine assignment to complete before my passing. I
have been highly trained by my mistakes and now it is time to take that
training and run with it.
>TRUTH IS LIKE THE SUN EVERYBODY
I would say Truth is like the forest, it is really hard to see for all
the trees, (which of course are also true :-)
Look, I understand that this response may not be satisfying and I am
sorry, but you have not asked any questions. I am sure that is because
you have no questions and that is my point. You are convinced you know
what you are talking about. And this is what Howdy Dave referred to
when he said that we all know the Truth to the extent of our capacity.
I realize I have tried to take you very far and very fast. But that's
because I think you are totally on the right track. Keep at it and KEEP
SHOUTING, eventually you will get there and we will meet. We all will,
because the only there, is God. I guarantee it :-)
Jared
o
^
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| omjaroo 2006-04-30, 1:23 am |
| Dave,
>Are you folks talking about God...
>or are you talking about maya?
Is that a rhetorical question?
You know there is no difference...
Jared
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| howdydave 2006-04-30, 1:23 am |
| Howdy Jared!
Nope, not rhetorical...
as I see it there is a difference.
My definition of God is:
Brahman made manifest through maya.
So I'm talking about the difference between:
WHAT it is and
HOW we perceive it.
IMO they are totally different issues.
Dave
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| howdydave 2006-04-30, 1:23 am |
| Howdy Jared!
Nope, not rhetorical...
as I see it there is a difference.
My definition of God is:
Brahman made manifest through maya.
(Brahman with attributes.)
So I'm talking about the difference between:
WHAT it is and
HOW we perceive it.
IMO they are totally different issues.
Dave
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| omjaroo 2006-04-30, 1:23 am |
| Dave,
If God is all there is then there can be no such thing as a difference!
A difference can only be understood as a contrast between two or more
existing things.
If God is all there is there can be no space. Because space can only be
understood as the distance between two or more separate points or
objects.
If God is all there is then there can be no movement because there is
no space or difference to move between.
If God is all there is then there can be no time because there is no
space, no difference, no movement to note between one moment and
another. There is no another, there is only God.
You might say there is a difference between what we perceive and what
really is. But there can be no difference between what is and what is
not. Because the "what is not", doesn't exist. What doesn't exist can't
be compared to, contrasted with or even addressed in the same manner as
something that does. What is no can only be imagined. This process of
imagining is what is termed maya. And the process is real (it is
whatever God is); it exists, but the object of the process does not.
Does this make sense?
Jared
o
^
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| howdydave 2006-04-30, 11:24 am |
| Howdy Jared!
You missed my point...
My point is that although we may be
talking about just one thing, we are
asking VERY different questions:
WHAT? v. HOW?
Your "what is not" argument won't
get you very far due to the fact that
you can't prove a negative.
BTW: Wa'ja mean "there can be no
time/space"? Time and space are
phenomina too, aren't they?
As for the "no time & space to move
BETWEEN" -- you are forgetting about
motion WITHIN.
As a counter I would ask if you are
saying that there is no motion of food
within my digestive tract or no motion
of blood within my circulatory system?
After all... it's all within "universe" of
my the body! (Using the mathematical
def. of "universe" in this case.)
Dave
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| Dave K 2006-04-30, 11:24 am |
|
howdydave wrote:
> Howdy Jared!
>
> You missed my point...
>
> My point is that although we may be
> talking about just one thing, we are
> asking VERY different questions:
>
> WHAT? v. HOW?
>
> Your "what is not" argument won't
> get you very far due to the fact that
> you can't prove a negative.
>
> BTW: Wa'ja mean "there can be no
> time/space"? Time and space are
> phenomina too, aren't they?
>
> As for the "no time & space to move
> BETWEEN" -- you are forgetting about
> motion WITHIN.
>
> As a counter I would ask if you are
> saying that there is no motion of food
> within my digestive tract or no motion
> of blood within my circulatory system?
>
> After all... it's all within "universe" of
> my the body! (Using the mathematical
> def. of "universe" in this case.)
>
> Dave
These kinds of discussions are why Buddhism was invented. lol
:-)
-Davek
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| omjaroo 2006-04-30, 11:24 am |
| Dave,
I might be out of touch for a day or two, so a quick reply.
What I am saying is there is no such thing as movement. There is no
such thing as time. There is no such thing as space. These are all
symbols we use to communicate with our brains (and others) and it
allows us to move around our "universe".
So to answer your question. No, in the absolute sense (of course it
does in the relative) the blood does not move through your veins, nor
is your body a universe distict from anything else and no, time/space
have no existence anymore then your body does :-)
Jared
o
^
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| omjaroo 2006-04-30, 11:24 am |
| Agreed!
As well as quantum physics, science fiction, poetry and the internet
:-)
Jared
o
^
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| howdydave 2006-04-30, 11:24 am |
| Howdy Jared!
Agreed.
I was going under the impression that
"God" v. Brahmen
was
relative v. absolute.
Semantics can be a real pain, eh?
Dave
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| howdydave 2006-04-30, 11:24 am |
| > Semantics can be a real pain, eh?
That's why I LOVE semantics!
Not only do you get to be a pain...
you can JUSTIFY it! 
Dave
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"puma" <sesli.atbisey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146341884.218490.81070@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> My dear friend OMJAROO states that " DARKNESS DOES NOT IN FACT EXIST.
> THERE IS LIGHT,THERE IS THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT, WHICH WE SEMBOLIZE AS
> DARKNESS. GOD IS LIGHT. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DEATH. DEATH DOES NOT
> EXIST. WHAT WE SEMBOLIZE AS DEATH IS AN ABSENCE OF LIFE...."
>
> Very well presentation, it is very fascinating story... But are these
> really right?
>
these are all word traps.
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| howdydave 2006-05-01, 1:24 am |
| > these are all word traps.
Maybe so...
Then again, words themselves are a trap!
Everybody's perception of the English language
is unique based on the word associations that
each person has developed during their own lifetime.
Dave
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