| Author |
A matter of semantics: JNANI v. YOGI
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| howdydave 2006-04-15, 11:27 am |
| Howdy!
In his writings, I've seen Swami Nikhilananda make several references
to the effect:
such and such a person "IS EITHER A YOGI OR A JNANI."
Are these terms mutually exclusive or are jnanis a subset of yogis?
Dave
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| omjaroo 2006-04-15, 11:27 am |
| Dave,
The obvious is; a jnani is always a yogi, a yogi may or may not be a
jnani. Is there something more to this question?
Jared
o
^
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| howdydave 2006-04-15, 11:27 am |
| Howdy Jared!
Nope!
That's what I thought but that "either/or" threw me. In most
contexts, "either/or" is a mutually exclusive relationship.
Next thing I'll have to figure out is if by "jnani" he means any
practitioner of Jnana yoga or just non-dualists! His glossary in "The
Upanishads vol. II" defines jnani as:
"One who follows the path of reasoning and discrimination
to realize Ultimate Truth; generally used to denote a non-dualist."
Dave
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| omjaroo 2006-04-16, 1:25 am |
|
> Next thing I'll have to figure out is if by "jnani" he means any
> practitioner of Jnana yoga or just non-dualists! His glossary in "The
> Upanishads vol. II" defines jnani as: "One who follows the path of
> reasoning and discrimination to realize Ultimate Truth; generally used > to denote a non-dualist."
A jnani, first and foremost, is a seeker of the Truth. All the jnani
wants to know is, what is; what is real; what really exists. Jnanis are
not "dogmatic" but they do deal in "absolutes". What the Truth is does
not matter to a jnani, only to know what is True. Jnanis are
unrelenting "skeptics"; consummate scientists; and ardent "realists",
no matter what their circumstances, faith or demographics.
Now if what turns out to be True, is that there is only God or XXX
(insert any term here you like), then a diligent and persistent jnani
will eventually end up being a "non-dualist or as I prefer to say, an
"absolutist". It is meaningless what tradition, discipline, country, or
disposition one entertains; Einstein, the Peace Pilgrim, Yogananda,
Vivakanda, Jared, Dave, whoever, whatever; "knowing" is awareness of
what is, not an opinion, religion, or philosophy.
Jared
o
^
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| On 2006-04-15 18:22:49 -0700, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:
> n a diligent and persistent jnani
> will eventually end up being a "non-dualist or as I prefer to say, an
> "absolutist"
A non-dualist will not give credence to the artificial distinctions
between the dualities of absolute versus relative.
--
~Stu
Non-dualist.
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| omjaroo 2006-04-16, 1:25 am |
| Absolutely! :-)
Jared
o
^
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| howdydave 2006-04-16, 1:25 am |
| Howdy!
I got this response from India via e-mail:
======================
Jnana means knowledge. A Jnani is the one who follows
the path of knowledge. For the sake of knowledge he
reads thinks and lives in thoughts. He discards false
knowledge as not this not this (net, neti). Generally this
path is favoured by followers of Vedanta/Uttara
Mimamsa. They may or may not follow Yoga of Patanjali.
For them if they follow Yoga it is only a means of realisation of
Knowledge.
Yogi on the other hand is a traveller in the path of Yoga.
He practices yoga as a way of life. For a Yogi
knowledge must come from within ; it is not external
knowledge he seeks -in fact he does not seek anything at
all . As Patanjali says to a Yogi, just as water flows from
a higher level to lower level , all developments must come
automatically from practice and Non attachment.
Rao
======================
Dave
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| howdydave 2006-04-16, 1:25 am |
| Howdy!
I got this response from India via e-mail:
======================
Jnana means knowledge. A Jnani is the one who follows
the path of knowledge. For the sake of knowledge he
reads thinks and lives in thoughts. He discards false
knowledge as not this not this (net, neti). Generally this
path is favoured by followers of Vedanta/Uttara
Mimamsa. They may or may not follow Yoga of Patanjali.
For them if they follow Yoga it is only a means of realisation of
Knowledge.
Yogi on the other hand is a traveller in the path of Yoga.
He practices yoga as a way of life. For a Yogi
knowledge must come from within ; it is not external
knowledge he seeks -in fact he does not seek anything at
all . As Patanjali says to a Yogi, just as water flows from
a higher level to lower level , all developments must come
automatically from practice and Non attachment.
======================
Dave
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| howdydave 2006-04-16, 1:25 am |
| Howdy!
I got this response from India via e-mail:
======================
Jnana means knowledge. A Jnani is the one who follows
the path of knowledge. For the sake of knowledge he
reads thinks and lives in thoughts. He discards false
knowledge as not this not this (neti, neti). Generally this
path is favoured by followers of Vedanta/Uttara
Mimamsa. They may or may not follow Yoga of Patanjali.
For them if they follow Yoga it is only a means of realisation of
Knowledge.
Yogi on the other hand is a traveller in the path of Yoga.
He practices yoga as a way of life. For a Yogi
knowledge must come from within ; it is not external
knowledge he seeks -in fact he does not seek anything at
all . As Patanjali says to a Yogi, just as water flows from
a higher level to lower level , all developments must come
automatically from practice and Non attachment.
======================
Dave
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| On 2006-04-15 18:56:19 -0700, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:
> Absolutely! :-)
>
> Jared
> o
Absolutely relative! ;-)
--
~Stu
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| omjaroo 2006-04-16, 11:24 am |
| A mathematician might check your premise by multiplying its opposite.
Let's see...
> Absolutely relative! ;-)
Relatively absolute? Hmmm
Reminds me of the gal who thought she might be a little bit pregnant
:-)
Jared
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| Stu wrote:
> On 2006-04-15 18:22:49 -0700, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:
>
>
> A non-dualist will not give credence to the artificial distinctions
> between the dualities of absolute versus relative.
>
Good shot! :-)
Now then: Can you be a non-dualist without being a yogi? And in that
case, does that mean that you can be a jnani without being a yogi?
S.
..making up koans for yogis :-)
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| howdydave 2006-04-17, 6:23 pm |
| > Now then: Can you be a non-dualist without being a yogi? And in that
> case, does that mean that you can be a jnani without being a yogi?
Howdy!
Two days ago I would have said no.
That is because I started my study of yoga by reading what
WESTERN authors have to say about it!
The western authors seem to have lumped all of the
Darshanas into a single category that they call "yoga."
Yoga is only ONE of the Darsharas.
After getting the the e-mail cited below I'd have to say
DEFINATELY!
ANYBODY can be a seeker after the truth.
Anybody can gain insight if they have enough diligence
and perception.
Just because the path of yoga will get you to this destination
doesn't in any way imply that there isn't any other way to
get there!
Dave
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| Sevenhundred Elves 2006-04-17, 6:23 pm |
| howdydave wrote:
>
> Howdy!
>
> Two days ago I would have said no.
> That is because I started my study of yoga by reading what
> WESTERN authors have to say about it!
>
> The western authors seem to have lumped all of the
> Darshanas into a single category that they call "yoga."
> Yoga is only ONE of the Darsharas.
>
> After getting the the e-mail cited below I'd have to say
> DEFINATELY!
What e-mail is that?
S.
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| Sevenhundred Elves 2006-04-17, 6:23 pm |
| Sevenhundred Elves wrote:
> howdydave wrote:
>
>
> What e-mail is that?
Ok, I found it. It was just above instead of below in my newsreader.
Thanks.
S.
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| On 2006-04-17 12:17:33 -0700, <staff@comhem.se> said:
> Stu wrote:
>
>
> Good shot! :-)
>
> Now then: Can you be a non-dualist without being a yogi? And in that
> case, does that mean that you can be a jnani without being a yogi?
>
> S.
>
> .making up koans for yogis :-)
Actually, the very act of "being a yogi" is contrary to non-dualism.
The moment one identifies oneself as yogi, one ceases to be a yogi.
--
~Stu
Who cheats and identifies himself as a non-dualist.
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| howdydave 2006-04-19, 6:26 pm |
| Howdy Stu!
I'm not sure whether "being a yogi" catagorizing one's self or merely
denotes the path that one is taking.
Dave
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| howdydave 2006-04-19, 6:26 pm |
| Howdy Stu!
I'm not sure whether "being a yogi" catagorizes one's
self or merely denotes the path that one is taking.
Dave
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| On 2006-04-19 11:57:13 -0700, "howdydave" <howdydave@msn.com> said:
> Howdy Stu!
>
> I'm not sure whether "being a yogi" catagorizing one's self or merely
> denotes the path that one is taking.
>
> Dave
Yes, this may be correct. So would "being a dualist". I suppose the
labels are OK as long as they describe behavior and not identity.
Behaviors are temporary. I may be a gardener today and be a
philosopher tonight. The individual slips from one behavior to
another. Any given label may change at any time. Identity may appear
fleeting as well, but us yogi's strive to unify identity mostly by
becoming aware of it.
Or is that too picky?
--
~Stu
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| howdydave 2006-04-21, 11:27 am |
| Howdy Stu!
Names and forms m'lad, names and forms...
IMHO: Non-dualism is (in part anyway) thinking outside
the box of names and forms. In spite of the fact that
you can be there spiritually / philosophically /
perceptually / whatever-- names & forms are
still necessary if you want to relate to the rest of the
world.
Dave
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