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| Ball of Fluff 2006-04-02, 12:30 am |
| Hi,
I just started Bikram Yoga. I am a newbie to that and to yoga in general.
I did read a couple books on it years ago (which doesn't in any way make me
less of a newbie!) and I have read some of the more spiritually centered
things such as Autobiography of a Yogi, but am, in general, very very new to
the subject.
I realize Bikram Yoga is far from the only Hatha Yoga school/methodology out
there. It does seem to be a pretty neat thing, so far.
I am interested in learning more about these things and in getting people's
takes on Bikram Yoga.
I haven't asked any questions here because I don't even have enough of a
frame of reference to think of any. I'm sure I'll think of some as time goes
on.
Namaste,
Claire
| |
| omjaroo 2006-04-02, 12:30 am |
| o
^
Welcome to alt.yoga Claire!
By all means hang out for a while and see what you think. I am certain
questions will arise :-)
However please realize that this place can be a bit spooky for the
uninitiated (and even for some of us regulars :-). Here you will find
the gamut from religious to atheist; physical to mental; and everything
in between. In the end you are the only judge. So jump right in and
have fun.
Oh, concerning Bikram; let's just say that he is not the way I would
prefer to approach the whole subject. I lean way more towards the like
of Richard Hittleman; a more "classic" approach. But you see I am one
who believes yoga has a divine purpose in addition to the physical and
mental benifits it is sure to impart. If it works for you and you are
having fun and feeling good, then by all means, carry on. But if at
some point you are uncomfortable or feeling an emptiness or longing for
something else then, explore, explore and explore. After all, you will
find that yoga is indeed a "science" of the most ardent type.
Jared
o
^
BTW the little figure before and after my note is a computer/internet
related expression of a Indian greeting "namaste". It means, "I bow to
the divine in you."
| |
| Ball of Fluff 2006-04-02, 11:35 am |
|
"omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143950922.728099.294580@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> o
> ^
>
> Welcome to alt.yoga Claire!
Hi, Thanks!
>
> By all means hang out for a while and see what you think. I am certain
> questions will arise :-)
Oh, they will. There's so much I don't know.
>
> However please realize that this place can be a bit spooky for the
> uninitiated (and even for some of us regulars :-). Here you will find
> the gamut from religious to atheist; physical to mental; and everything
> in between. In the end you are the only judge. So jump right in and
> have fun.
I can dig it. I have been, variously, a member of the Church of Scientology,
a psychology student, a Catholic, a member of the 3rd order of the
Franciscans, and for a while styled myself a budding mystic. (probably way
too vainglorious!!)
>
> Oh, concerning Bikram; let's just say that he is not the way I would
> prefer to approach the whole subject. I lean way more towards the like
> of Richard Hittleman; a more "classic" approach. But you see I am one
> who believes yoga has a divine purpose in addition to the physical and
> mental benifits it is sure to impart. If it works for you and you are
> having fun and feeling good, then by all means, carry on. But if at
> some point you are uncomfortable or feeling an emptiness or longing for
> something else then, explore, explore and explore. After all, you will
> find that yoga is indeed a "science" of the most ardent type.
I had a book by Richard Hittleman years ago that my Dad had. Seemed really
good. I know he wrote several. Dad had a couple, I think.
I am open to reading and learning about the spiritual aspects and teachings
associated with yoga. For now, though, I'm finding the yoga class I am
taking to be a challenge.
I think I would like to get my body a bit more centered and serene first.
But I know you'll understand that- judging by what you've written.
>
> Jared
>
> o
> ^
>
> BTW the little figure before and after my note is a computer/internet
> related expression of a Indian greeting "namaste". It means, "I bow to
> the divine in you."
I like it!
I can't find the little 0 symbol on my keyboard...Namaste...
C
| |
|
| On 2006-04-01 16:31:04 -0800, "Ball of Fluff"
<getoffmyass@fluffentology.com> said:
> Hi,
>
> I just started Bikram Yoga. I am a newbie to that and to yoga in general.
>
> I did read a couple books on it years ago (which doesn't in any way
> make me less of a newbie!) and I have read some of the more spiritually
> centered things such as Autobiography of a Yogi, but am, in general,
> very very new to the subject.
>
> I realize Bikram Yoga is far from the only Hatha Yoga
> school/methodology out there. It does seem to be a pretty neat thing,
> so far.
>
> I am interested in learning more about these things and in getting
> people's takes on Bikram Yoga.
>
> I haven't asked any questions here because I don't even have enough of
> a frame of reference to think of any. I'm sure I'll think of some as
> time goes on.
>
> Namaste,
>
> Claire
Bikram? Don't hurt yourself and don't become dehydrated.
Otherwise enjoy.
--
~Stu
| |
| Ball of Fluff 2006-04-02, 11:35 am |
|
"Stu" <Nospam@towel.com> wrote in message
news:2006040123143716807-Nospam@towelcom...
> On 2006-04-01 16:31:04 -0800, "Ball of Fluff"
> <getoffmyass@fluffentology.com> said:
>
>
> Bikram? Don't hurt yourself and don't become dehydrated.
>
> Otherwise enjoy.
I'm being really careful. I drink a lot of water during the day and a lot
during and after class, too.
A lot of times when I have trouble with a pose (I'm not very flexible and am
out of shape) the instructor comes around and gives me a sort of modified
version. I then try to remember that so that I can do it that way next time.
Hopefully I can do some good things with this!
Namaste,
C
| |
|
| On 2006-04-02 09:04:59 -0700, "Ball of Fluff"
<getoffmyass@fluffentology.com> said:
>
> "Stu" <Nospam@towel.com> wrote in message
> news:2006040123143716807-Nospam@towelcom...
>
> I'm being really careful. I drink a lot of water during the day and a
> lot during and after class, too.
>
> A lot of times when I have trouble with a pose (I'm not very flexible
> and am out of shape) the instructor comes around and gives me a sort of
> modified version. I then try to remember that so that I can do it that
> way next time.
>
> Hopefully I can do some good things with this!
>
> Namaste,
>
> C
Sounds like you have an excellent instructor. Many Bikram teachers
lack the training to know how to individualize instructions. Bikram
himself teaches a one-size-fits-all approach. I imagine after a few
months of rigorous yoga classes you will feel improvement in many
different ways.
See if you can do some yoga at home. Even 5 minutes a day would be a
good start.
Bring mindfulness to your daily activities by bringing your yoga
practice into everyday activities. How are you standing as you wait to
pay for groceries? What are your shoulders doing when you drive?
Yoga is sort of a scientific experiment on your self. You do the
practice (asanas, pranayama, meditation) with little judgement. Aside
from bringing healthy skepticism to the practice. For example, is it
really necessary to heat the room up? Is this sequence the best for
me? How about the benefits of restorative poses? How should pranayama
be integrated with asana?
Notice how asanas affect normal waking hours. Do you feel more energy,
greater concentration, healthier? Texts like Autobiography of Yogi,
The Yoga Sutras, The Tree of Yoga (Iyengar), Watts, Kornfield and
others make for great background. But unlike Scientology, Catholicism
and other "Spiritual" systems, yoga comes from within. We may read the
texts but they are written to support our experience. The spirituality
of yoga comes out of the path itself.
--
~Stu
| |
| Ball of Fluff 2006-04-07, 6:37 pm |
|
Stu wrote:
> On 2006-04-02 09:04:59 -0700, "Ball of Fluff"
> <getoffmyass@fluffentology.com> said:
<snippage>
>
> Sounds like you have an excellent instructor. Many Bikram teachers
> lack the training to know how to individualize instructions. Bikram
> himself teaches a one-size-fits-all approach. I imagine after a few
> months of rigorous yoga classes you will feel improvement in many
> different ways.
Yes, I like the instructors there. They tell us not to overstrain and
to do what we can do.
I already am feeling some differences just after 2 weeks and 8
sessions/classes.
Definitely going to stick with this.
>
> See if you can do some yoga at home. Even 5 minutes a day would be a
> good start.
I think I will do that. I have Bikram's book but I may dig up those
Richard Hittleman books my Dad used to have or some others.
>
> Bring mindfulness to your daily activities by bringing your yoga
> practice into everyday activities. How are you standing as you wait to
> pay for groceries? What are your shoulders doing when you drive?
Right. I know I developed some bad habits.
I'll tell you- you know how some poses begin with the person raising
arms up and the biceps should be against the ears?Well, my arms want to
be a couple inches forward from that. and they get tired if I hold them
up more than a minute. I think that I'm out of alignment plus have some
bad habits.
Years of office work and off again on again weight training.
>
> Yoga is sort of a scientific experiment on your self. You do the
> practice (asanas, pranayama, meditation) with little judgement. Aside
> from bringing healthy skepticism to the practice. For example, is it
> really necessary to heat the room up? Is this sequence the best for
> me? How about the benefits of restorative poses? How should pranayama
> be integrated with asana?
These are things I need to read up on.
>
> Notice how asanas affect normal waking hours. Do you feel more energy,
> greater concentration, healthier? Texts like Autobiography of Yogi,
> The Yoga Sutras, The Tree of Yoga (Iyengar), Watts, Kornfield and
> others make for great background. But unlike Scientology, Catholicism
> and other "Spiritual" systems, yoga comes from within. We may read the
> texts but they are written to support our experience. The spirituality
> of yoga comes out of the path itself.
I did read Autobiography of a Yogi when I was younger. Loved it.
Planning to reread.
Plan to read other things along that line.
Now, not planning to get into a discussion of Scientology (hereafter to
be abbreviated as "Scn") as there are plenty of discussion groups for
that and it's too damn controversial anyway for now, but it does put
some emphasis on enlightenment (my wording, not theirs) and knowledge
coming from within. It was very different than my sojourn into
Catholicism.
But be that as it may, I do plan to do some reading. My Dad used to
have books by Alan Watts. I may pick up some to read- that's the Watts
of which you speak, I presume?
I do like the idea of the spirituality of yoga coming from out of the
path itself.
I think that's the way spirituality should be addressed and tapped.
I'm kind of an odd duck. I get messages sometimes from ---something.
Let's call it spirit.
I don't hear voices or anything like that, but if I pray (a leftover
from my catholic girlhood) I sometimes get answers and sometimes they
are VERY clear. Almost like in words.
So I asked spirit about getting my body handled, certain problems it
was developing, needing to drop some weight and get into shape, needing
an overhaul in more ways that just the physical and the message was not
to worry, that I would know what to do and when.
This came to pass, too!
I also asked it about my job. Same message. Total turnaround- in my
favor.
I think spirit is within us and all around us.
We are not alone, we are not islands, but we are linked...
Namaste,
Claire
| |
|
| On 2006-04-07 12:00:41 -0700, "Ball of Fluff" <amafluffygirl@yahoo.com> said:
>
> Stu wrote:
> <snippage>
<snip>
>
> Right. I know I developed some bad habits.
>
> I'll tell you- you know how some poses begin with the person raising
> arms up and the biceps should be against the ears?Well, my arms want to
> be a couple inches forward from that. and they get tired if I hold them
> up more than a minute. I think that I'm out of alignment plus have some
> bad habits.
>
> Years of office work and off again on again weight training.
Weight training can make for some very short muscles. WT works to
damage the muscles, the cell walls build up and thats how one bulks up.
You will find the yoga will work to strengthen as well as elongate the muscles.
>
>
> These are things I need to read up on.
I tend to disagree with Bikram on most these points. I hope you will
expose yourself to other schools of yoga. Bikram is a bit eccentric.
Years ago when I went to his classes, I came very close to permanently
injuring myself. I have since seen many others injuring themselves.
My current yoga teacher is a licensed physical therapists and she has
many stories of treating people coming out of Bikram's of Beverly Hills.
However my experience were classes with Bikram himself. His teacher
training is not very rigorous. As a result there is great variation
between different teachers teaching his method. From your description
it sounds like you have a teacher who surpasses Bikram in many
departments. Its especially gratifying to hear that he customizes the
approach per student a bit.
>
>
> I did read Autobiography of a Yogi when I was younger. Loved it.
> Planning to reread.
It comes off as a bit nutty. I have since read that in India it fairly
normal for yogi's to use stories of supernatural events to get people
interested in yoga. Yogananada uses this technique. Fortunately, more
modern teachers have come forth and approached Eastern practices from a
more pragmatic standpoint.
But its a fun fairy tale to read.
>
> Plan to read other things along that line.
>
> Now, not planning to get into a discussion of Scientology (hereafter to
> be abbreviated as "Scn") as there are plenty of discussion groups for
> that and it's too damn controversial anyway for now, but it does put
> some emphasis on enlightenment (my wording, not theirs) and knowledge
> coming from within. It was very different than my sojourn into
> Catholicism.
Another fairy tale.
>
> But be that as it may, I do plan to do some reading. My Dad used to
> have books by Alan Watts. I may pick up some to read- that's the Watts
> of which you speak, I presume?
Yes. Alan Watts passed away a while ago. If you get a chance see if
you can find some tapes of his lectures. He has a very smoothing
voice, and it is very inspiring to listen to him speak. Some libraries
carry his tapes.
There is an company called "Sounds True" that carries many fantastic
audio tapes by different spiritual masters.
http://www.soundstrue.com/
I have enjoyed:
Jack Kornfield and Ken Wilber's tapes.
>
> I do like the idea of the spirituality of yoga coming from out of the
> path itself.
>
> I think that's the way spirituality should be addressed and tapped.
>
> I'm kind of an odd duck. I get messages sometimes from ---something.
> Let's call it spirit.
Yoga is about developing that. But it is not done directly. One
simply does the practice. As the mind/body becomes more disciplined
the insight will come.
>
> I don't hear voices or anything like that, but if I pray (a leftover
> from my catholic girlhood) I sometimes get answers and sometimes they
> are VERY clear. Almost like in words.
>
> So I asked spirit about getting my body handled, certain problems it
> was developing, needing to drop some weight and get into shape, needing
> an overhaul in more ways that just the physical and the message was not
> to worry, that I would know what to do and when.
>
> This came to pass, too!
>
> I also asked it about my job. Same message. Total turnaround- in my
> favor.
>
> I think spirit is within us and all around us.
>
> We are not alone, we are not islands, but we are linked...
>
> Namaste,
>
> Claire
We ARE linked. But we are also born into separateness. We make the
journey towards unity, in the mean time we have the usenet, a few books
and tapes, and a class full of other seekers to help us on the way.
And it sounds like you have that inner guru working for you. May be
your best teacher yet.
Namaste,
--
~Stu
| |
|
|
>
> It comes off as a bit nutty. I have since read that in India it fairly
> normal for yogi's to use stories of supernatural events to get people
> interested in yoga. Yogananada uses this technique. Fortunately, more
> modern teachers have come forth and approached Eastern practices from a
> more pragmatic standpoint.
>
> But its a fun fairy tale to read.
..
> ~Stu
Its not a fairy tale at all, and you're accusing Yogananda of being a
liar. That just shows how little you know, Stu. Study and investigate a
little more deeply before you make such ignorant accusations.
Many people who have investigated yoga and psychic research
have found such phenomena are genuine.
Paul Brunton did and he wrote two books about his experiences titled
"A Search in Secret India" and "A Search in Secret Egypt", and
Alexandra David Neel wrote about her experiences in pre-
communist Tibet in "Magic and Mystery in Tibet"
Don't shoot your pen off about things you know nothing about.
| |
|
| On 2006-04-15 18:35:31 -0700, "jaj" <j_jarred@hotmail.com> said:
>
>
> .
>
> Its not a fairy tale at all, and you're accusing Yogananda of being a
> liar. That just shows how little you know, Stu. Study and investigate a
> little more deeply before you make such ignorant accusations.
>
> Many people who have investigated yoga and psychic research
> have found such phenomena are genuine.
> Paul Brunton did and he wrote two books about his experiences titled
> "A Search in Secret India" and "A Search in Secret Egypt", and
> Alexandra David Neel wrote about her experiences in pre-
> communist Tibet in "Magic and Mystery in Tibet"
>
> Don't shoot your pen off about things you know nothing about
For every "psychic researcher" there are 10 skeptical debunkers. I
have been practicing yoga for near 35 years now and have not witnessed
an of the magical events as told by Yoganada. To the contrary, I have
found yoga an excellent grounding technique that helps one plant one's
feet firmly on this earth.
Please share with us your magical experiences.
--
~Stu
| |
|
| >
> For every "psychic researcher" there are 10 skeptical debunkers. I
> have been practicing yoga for near 35 years now and have not witnessed
> an of the magical events as told by Yoganada. To the contrary, I have
> found yoga an excellent grounding technique that helps one plant one's
> feet firmly on this earth.
>
> Please share with us your magical experiences.
> --
> ~Stu
But Stu, you wouldn't believe any of those other guys, so why would you
believe me? Only personal experience is reliable, and even then one
must be careful what conclusions one draws from what one sees or
experiences.
In 1945, when I was 7, in the 2nd grade at the Catholic Primary School
in Horsham, Victoria, the nun teacher and the children were looking for
some colored papers we used to make little paper boxes, but they
couldn't find them. So the teacher said "Let's say ten 'Hail Marys' to
find them", so she turned to the statue of the Virgin Mary up in a
corner of the room and she and the other children began to recite the
prayers. I didn't like that subject and turned round trying to distract
some of the other children, but had no success. Then I saw a stack of
those papers, in a loose, unbound bundle, with a single little paper
box on top, flying across the room from the other side, and they
settled on the little table behind the teacher. When she had finished
praying she turned around, saw the papers on the table in front of her,
said "Ah, here we are!" and they began the lesson. But neither she nor
the other pupils seemed to think anything unusual had happened. At
playtime I asked a schoolboy friend if he had noticed anything unusual,
and he said no.
| |
|
| On 2006-04-15 19:51:02 -0700, "jaj" <j_jarred@hotmail.com> said:
>
> But Stu, you wouldn't believe any of those other guys, so why would you
> believe me? Only personal experience is reliable, and even then one
> must be careful what conclusions one draws from what one sees or
> experiences.
>
> In 1945, when I was 7, in the 2nd grade at the Catholic Primary School
> in Horsham, Victoria, the nun teacher and the children were looking for
> some colored papers we used to make little paper boxes, but they
> couldn't find them. So the teacher said "Let's say ten 'Hail Marys' to
> find them", so she turned to the statue of the Virgin Mary up in a
> corner of the room and she and the other children began to recite the
> prayers. I didn't like that subject and turned round trying to distract
> some of the other children, but had no success. Then I saw a stack of
> those papers, in a loose, unbound bundle, with a single little paper
> box on top, flying across the room from the other side, and they
> settled on the little table behind the teacher. When she had finished
> praying she turned around, saw the papers on the table in front of her,
> said "Ah, here we are!" and they began the lesson. But neither she nor
> the other pupils seemed to think anything unusual had happened. At
> playtime I asked a schoolboy friend if he had noticed anything unusual,
> and he said no.
I also had wonderful magical experiences much like yours when I was a
child. I even have had moments when I saw peoples "auras" as an adult.
I am certain that even the most conservative materialist has had some
sort of mystical experiences in ordinary life, though there is a great
deal of motivation to suppress these moments.
And I agree with you one must be careful what conclusions one draws
from these experiences. They add to the mystery of life, however I
would not want to exploit and exaggerate these experiences as a way to
sell my cult to westerners as Yogananda did.
Yoga is powerful stuff without the hyperbole. T. Krishnamacharya could
stop his heart for 3 minutes. Buddhist monks can raise their body
temperatures enough to dry cloth in the cold with their minds. Are
there really avatars who teleport around like in Star Trek episodes?
Who come Yogananda's little miracles stopped happening in modern India?
Patajali warns us about this. Better to treat these experiences as
distractions and let them go.
--
~Stu
| |
|
| Stu wrote:
> And I agree with you one must be careful what conclusions one draws
> from these experiences. They add to the mystery of life, however I
> would not want to exploit and exaggerate these experiences as a way to
> sell my cult to westerners as Yogananda did.
You've made a claim there that Yogananda exaggerated his stories of
miracles to exploit them, but I don't think he did. The one possible
exaggeration was the one he was told by his Sanskrit tutor about a
palace being materialised in the Himalayas for Lahiri Mahasaya's
initiation, not because it would be impossible, (did not Our Lord say
if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed you could cast a mountain
into the sea, or words to that effect?) but as such an initiation
would carry a high spiritual atmosphere better if it happened on a high
spiritual plane than it would if it happened on the physical one, my
interpretation of his Sanskrit teacher's words is that it happened on a
high spiritual plane.
> Who come Yogananda's little miracles stopped happening in modern India?
What nonsense! What you mean is, how come you've never heard of them
happening in modern India. You'd have to ask people who might know, and
you might find something, but even "the devil" has miraculous powers,
according to Christian belief, so whatever or whomever you found might
not necessarily be good.
However, as you wrote:
>
> Patajali warns us about this. Better to treat these experiences as
> distractions and let them go.
>
> --
> ~Stu
| |
|
|
"jaj" <j_jarred@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145186576.924971.299390@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Stu wrote:
>
>
> You've made a claim there that Yogananda exaggerated his stories of
> miracles to exploit them, but I don't think he did. The one possible
imo the old texts are full of mtaphors, hyperboles and flowery language. one
should be careful not to be carried away by them.
eg, many texts claim the yogi becomes the "supreme, most powerful, sovereign
in the universe". i have not seen any evidence of such beings, not even
close, and i've met some exalted individuals. the ones who seem to know are
humble, compassionate, humorous, completely _human_ and full of practical
wisdom.
imo these are prana manipulation tricks, and the amount of prana available
to a human being is (imo) limited.
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