Yoga - A simple God question (not very simple)

Author

A simple God question (not very simple)

puma

2006-09-24, 9:36 pm

Bill M is asking a very hard question under the headline "" A SIMPLE
GOD QUESTION ""

Bill M wrote:
> A very simple god question.

> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs.

> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the
> real god and all the others are fakes?

> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods?

And the answer comes from Sphere :

The real One God of Christianity and the real One
God of Islam are busy smiting each other right
now.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.

Narayana

2006-09-24, 9:36 pm

Why does not the real god tell ???

It is a very common mistake to perceive a God in your own image and to
try to listen in need for God's spoken words.

The simplest answer is that a God simply IS. There is nothing to add to
that.
But how many will be satisfied by that answer?

It will take 50 years of meditation and a straightforward sadhana to
grow that correct perception to see that a God simply IS and nothing
else is needed to add.

Narayana

Stu

2006-09-24, 9:36 pm

On 2006-09-24 17:54:17 -0700, "Narayana" <mazlov@yahoo.com> said:

>
> Why does not the real god tell ???
>
> It is a very common mistake to perceive a God in your own image and to
> try to listen in need for God's spoken words.
>
> The simplest answer is that a God simply IS. There is nothing to add to
> that.
> But how many will be satisfied by that answer?
>
> It will take 50 years of meditation and a straightforward sadhana to
> grow that correct perception to see that a God simply IS and nothing
> else is needed to add.
>
>
> Narayana

Why does one person have a non-dual experience in Europe and report it
as seeing an image of Mother Mary and a person in the Far East has the
same non-dual experience and reports it with the image of a many-armed
deity?

The problem lies in the cultural interpretation we use to filter our
experiences.

It is for this reason I am very skeptical of the word "god". It has
profoundly different cultural interpretations for many different
people. In this world of melding multiculturalism, a loaded concept
like "god" has been rendered meaningless.

Yet the experience is still true.

To this end, there is a yogic imperative for us to delve deeply into
our consciousness and extract the authentic and release the constructs.
--
~Stu

omjaroo

2006-09-25, 2:34 am

puma wrote:
> Bill M is asking a very hard question under the headline "" A SIMPLE
> GOD QUESTION ""

> The real One God of Christianity and the real One
> God of Islam are busy smiting each other right
> now.

Puma,

This is Kindergarden stuff! I don't understand, why are you bringing it
here to alt.yoga?

Jared
o
^

enkaysagar@yahoo.co.in

2006-09-25, 2:34 am

omjaroo wrote:
> puma wrote:
>
>
> Puma,
>
> This is Kindergarden stuff! I don't understand, why are you bringing it
> here to alt.yoga?
>
> Jared
> o
> ^

Dear Bill
The God and Goddessin numerous forms are the energy Gods.

howdydave

2006-09-25, 2:34 am

enkaysagar@yahoo.co.in wrote:
> omjaroo wrote:
>
> Dear Bill
> The God and Goddessin numerous forms are the energy Gods.

Howdy Bill!

It is a simple enough question, but it is nested in some
assumptions and terms that are nowhere near to being
universally accepted

e.g.1: "There are thousands of gods and god beliefs."
Is not a question, it is a statement of faith.

The rest of your statements & questions contradict this
initial statement.

e.g.2: "Why does not the real god tell us directly from his
heaven that he is the real god and all the others are fakes?"

What is real?
Is god an entity?
Where does god reside?
If god is a real entity, is it a MALE entity?
If you acknowledge the possibility of ONE superior
entity, why isn't it possible for there to be more than one?

e.g.3: "Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods?"

How do you destroy something that is not real?
If god is love, how can god perform actions of hate (smite,
destroy, damnation, etc.)?

Dave

howdydave

2006-09-25, 2:34 am

puma

2006-09-25, 4:28 pm

omjaroo wrote:
> puma wrote:
>
>
> Puma,
>
> This is Kindergarden stuff! I don't understand, why are you bringing it
> here to alt.yoga?
>
> Jared

My dear Jared,

In life we have to face with all kind of acts,,,not only the ones that
we enjoy and like ,,, but also with the ones that we do not like or do
not enjoy...

I see from your statement that you are not a kit,,,so you do not like
to be in a kindergarden,,,on the other hand,,, I am always a child in
every respect,,,and I enjoy
asking this sort of questions around to realise and understand in
deeply on any subject matter ( a real childish act) To me this simple
question is such a good one that you may easily see how people are
trying to PROTECT their FAULTS and their CONDITIONED MINDS under the
curtain of a FAITH...

In this respect, in ISLAM, it starts there is no God,,, but ALLAH. (LA
ILAHE ILLALLAH)

I am not trying to say that Islam is the best... But for some real
seekers this must have
a real meaning...

And please be so kind to understand that this alt.yoga is not a prison
of any sort...
Atleast to me yoga means FREEDOM...Such a freedom that all the
conditioned minds should be perished. And for this reason I also do not
want my dear friend JARED to be a guard of any prison...

With compassion,

Puma

Narayana

2006-09-25, 4:28 pm

Why does one person have a non-dual experience in Europe and report it
as seeing an image of Mother Mary and a person in the Far East has the
same non-dual experience and reports it with the image of a many-armed
deity?

Yo! Again - the question is about the perception. That is a very
important point.
Our ability to perceive is formed by our Identity - by the complexity
how we see ourselves!

The mystery of the spiritual perception is a hard one to comprehend as
it based on the PRACTICE but not an understanding. You are actually
have to change the glasses of one color to other to see the whole world
in a different color.

So, is your question, why; seeing an image of Mother Mary or image of a
many-armed
deity, or the image of UFO or your own dead child or your GURU - as so
many reports stating seeing Yogananda everywhere. Why?

An answer is simple to those who has some insights in this subject - It
is your IDENTITY which will form the quality of your spiritual
perception and nothing else.

The problem is that our true Identity is identical to the PURE SPIRIT,
the true bliss, but we are shifting that identity into the body
awareness, destroying our nature every single day becoming the
customers of the degrading society.

We are becoming an opposite to that we are. And as such, we are looking
for any solution to kill ourselves by the drugs, sex, mindless
entertainment and other consumer products just to keep a balance sheet
in order.

And then.

Our true nature is starting to cry to us in the forms of visions, small
miracles, sweet poems and a sunlight on our beds, saying only one thing
again and again - .......

With respect,

Narayana

[vbcol=seagreen]

omjaroo

2006-09-25, 4:28 pm

puma wrote:

> My dear Jared,
> And please be so kind to understand that this alt.yoga is not a prison
> of any sort...
> Atleast to me yoga means FREEDOM...Such a freedom that all the
> conditioned minds should be perished. And for this reason I also do not
> want my dear friend JARED to be a guard of any prison...

Puma, that's good, I like it :-) Reminds me of these lines from one of
my favorite poems:

Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage;
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone, that soar above,
Enjoy such liberty.

from, "To Althea: From Prison," by Richard Lovelace.

Jared
o
^
12 Steps for Fear, www.omjaroo.com

Lawson English

2006-09-25, 9:33 pm

Stu wrote:
> On 2006-09-24 17:54:17 -0700, "Narayana" <mazlov@yahoo.com> said:
>
>
> Why does one person have a non-dual experience in Europe and report it
> as seeing an image of Mother Mary and a person in the Far East has the
> same non-dual experience and reports it with the image of a many-armed
> deity?
>

By definition, a non-dual "experience" doesn't involve sensory information.

> The problem lies in the cultural interpretation we use to filter our
> experiences.

This is true, even of non-dual "experiences," but a vision of Jesus or a
vision of Mary or a vision of ANY kind is not a "non-dual experience."

>
> It is for this reason I am very skeptical of the word "god". It has
> profoundly different cultural interpretations for many different
> people. In this world of melding multiculturalism, a loaded concept
> like "god" has been rendered meaningless.
>
> Yet the experience is still true.
>
> To this end, there is a yogic imperative for us to delve deeply into our
> consciousness and extract the authentic and release the constructs.

That's the theory, anyway.

Lawson English

2006-09-25, 9:33 pm

omjaroo wrote:
> puma wrote:
>
>
> Puma,
>
> This is Kindergarden stuff! I don't understand, why are you bringing it
> here to alt.yoga?
>
> Jared
> o
> ^
>

Ah, so only the elite are allowed to post on an alt.* newsgroup.

LOL!

omjaroo

2006-09-26, 2:32 am

Jared wrote

Lawson wrote[vbcol=seagreen]
> Ah, so only the elite are allowed to post on an alt.* newsgroup.
> LOL!

Lawson,

Why are asking me this question?

You've never had any problems posting :-)

Jared
o
^

omjaroo

2006-09-26, 2:32 am

puma wrote:
> Bill M is asking a very hard question under the headline "" A SIMPLE
> GOD QUESTION ""
[vbcol=seagreen]

THE UNITY THAT UNDERLIES ALL RELIGIONS

By
SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA

"All religions are one. They teach a divine life. I respect saints and
prophets of all religions. I respect all religions, all cults, all
faiths and all creeds. I serve all, love all, mix with all and see the
Lord in all".

- Swami Sivananda

At the present moment all religions contain a mixture of truth, which
is divine, and error which is human. The fundamentals or essentials of
all religions are the same. There is difference only in the
non-essentials. The apparent differences in religions are due to a
misconception or misconstruction of the long-forgotten truth of the
Vedas on which they are ultimately founded. All systems of religion are
equally divine and true. The conflicting points are all due to
misconception and misconstruction of truths on account of prejudice,
bigotry, lack of purity of heart and subtlety and purity of intellect,
and perverted condition of the intellect of people.

The great majority of religions had their origin in prehistoric times.
Hence there are no genuine documents or trustworthy traditions
concerning them.

All prophets are messengers of God. They are great Yogins and realized
souls, who have had divine, intuitive perception of God. Their words
are infallible and sacred. The Koran or the Zend-Avesta or the Bible is
as much a sacred book as the Bhagavad-Gita. All contain the essence of
divine wisdom. Ahuramazda, Isvara, Allah, Jehovah are different names
for one God.

Truth is neither Hindu nor Muslim, nor Buddhist nor Christian! Truth is
one, homogeneous, eternal substance. The follower of the religion of
Truth walks on the path of light, peace, wisdom, power and bliss.

Man forgets all about his religion on account of ignorance, or lust for
power and greed. He has become irreligious. So he has come down to the
level of a brute. He has lost all sense of morality. He does havoc. He
creates mischief. He stabs, loots, and burns houses. The law of the
jungle prevails.

Many preach Buddhism, but no one gives up desires and Himsa (as opposed
to Ahimsa). Many preach Christianity, but no one practices love and
forgiveness. Many preach Islam, but no one recognizes the brotherhood
of man. Many preach Hinduism, but no one realizes the Divinity in all.
Preaching has become the livelihood of men, while practice has become
their object of scorn.

Hence the world is wicked, not for want of truth, nor on account of
religions; but, alas, it is wicked for the lack of true followers of
these ideals and religions.

What is needed is proper education of the followers of all religions.
Place the practical tenets of their own religion before the followers
of that religion, and devise ways and means of enabling them to express
these tenets in their daily life. Without practice, idealism creates
fatalism in man. Unless knowledge alters one's life, it is useless.
Selflessness and love are not creeds to be taught, but ideals to be
exemplified, demonstrated and radiated. Therefore, let everyone
practice his own religion and strive to attain the goal. Let religion
create saints and Yogins, rather than Mandirs (Hindu temple), Masjids
(Mosque) and Churches.

o
^

puma

2006-09-26, 8:31 am

omjaroo wrote:
> puma wrote:
>
>
> THE UNITY THAT UNDERLIES ALL RELIGIONS
>
> By
> SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA
>
> "All religions are one. They teach a divine life. I respect saints and
> prophets of all religions. I respect all religions, all cults, all
> faiths and all creeds. I serve all, love all, mix with all and see the
> Lord in all".
>
> - Swami Sivananda
>
> At the present moment all religions contain a mixture of truth, which
> is divine, and error which is human. The fundamentals or essentials of
> all religions are the same. There is difference only in the
> non-essentials. The apparent differences in religions are due to a
> misconception or misconstruction of the long-forgotten truth of the
> Vedas on which they are ultimately founded. All systems of religion are
> equally divine and true. The conflicting points are all due to
> misconception and misconstruction of truths on account of prejudice,
> bigotry, lack of purity of heart and subtlety and purity of intellect,
> and perverted condition of the intellect of people.
>
> The great majority of religions had their origin in prehistoric times.
> Hence there are no genuine documents or trustworthy traditions
> concerning them.
>
> All prophets are messengers of God. They are great Yogins and realized
> souls, who have had divine, intuitive perception of God. Their words
> are infallible and sacred. The Koran or the Zend-Avesta or the Bible is
> as much a sacred book as the Bhagavad-Gita. All contain the essence of
> divine wisdom. Ahuramazda, Isvara, Allah, Jehovah are different names
> for one God.
>
> Truth is neither Hindu nor Muslim, nor Buddhist nor Christian! Truth is
> one, homogeneous, eternal substance. The follower of the religion of
> Truth walks on the path of light, peace, wisdom, power and bliss.
>
> Man forgets all about his religion on account of ignorance, or lust for
> power and greed. He has become irreligious. So he has come down to the
> level of a brute. He has lost all sense of morality. He does havoc. He
> creates mischief. He stabs, loots, and burns houses. The law of the
> jungle prevails.
>
> Many preach Buddhism, but no one gives up desires and Himsa (as opposed
> to Ahimsa). Many preach Christianity, but no one practices love and
> forgiveness. Many preach Islam, but no one recognizes the brotherhood
> of man. Many preach Hinduism, but no one realizes the Divinity in all.
> Preaching has become the livelihood of men, while practice has become
> their object of scorn.
>
> Hence the world is wicked, not for want of truth, nor on account of
> religions; but, alas, it is wicked for the lack of true followers of
> these ideals and religions.
>
> What is needed is proper education of the followers of all religions.
> Place the practical tenets of their own religion before the followers
> of that religion, and devise ways and means of enabling them to express
> these tenets in their daily life. Without practice, idealism creates
> fatalism in man. Unless knowledge alters one's life, it is useless.
> Selflessness and love are not creeds to be taught, but ideals to be
> exemplified, demonstrated and radiated. Therefore, let everyone
> practice his own religion and strive to attain the goal. Let religion
> create saints and Yogins, rather than Mandirs (Hindu temple), Masjids
> (Mosque) and Churches.
>
> o
Hi Jared,

This is what we`ve been waiting for...This is beautiful ,,, REALISATION
OF SELF...

Thanks a lot brother,

Love and peace

Puma

Richard Corfield

2006-09-26, 8:31 am

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.yoga.]
On 2006-09-26, omjaroo <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> [...] The apparent differences in religions are due to a
> misconception or misconstruction of the long-forgotten truth of the
> Vedas on which they are ultimately founded. [...]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All religions are equal, but some religions are more equal than others?

Is it not possible that the common conclusions were reached independently,
something which makes them more likely to be true? Perhaps the original
post is referring to "The long forgotten truth of the Vedas" as the truth
itself, which happens to be given within the Vedas as well as the Bible,
Koran, ...

- Richard

howdydave

2006-09-26, 4:31 pm

Richard Corfield wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.yoga.]
> On 2006-09-26, omjaroo <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> All religions are equal, but some religions are more equal than others?
>
> Is it not possible that the common conclusions were reached independently,
> something which makes them more likely to be true? Perhaps the original
> post is referring to "The long forgotten truth of the Vedas" as the truth
> itself, which happens to be given within the Vedas as well as the Bible,
> Koran, ...
>
> - Richard

Howdy!

I would have to question the "unity of all religions" bit.
I can't see how the "hate religions" fit.

Dave

omjaroo

2006-09-26, 9:28 pm

> Howdy!
>
> I would have to question the "unity of all religions" bit.
> I can't see how the "hate religions" fit.
>
> Dave

> Howdy!
>
> I would have to question the "unity of all religions" bit.
> I can't see how the "hate religions" fit.
>
> Dave

Howdy Dave,

Interesting comment.

I am not familiar with any religion promulgated on hate or which I
would characterize as a "hate" religion. I am aware that many religions
have been used to sew hate and discontent. But this has never been the
tenets of the religion but always the action of individuals.

http://www.heart7.net/toc-chap.html
This is an outstanding and comprehensive resource for study of
comparative religions which was developed for the US Dept. of the Army,
for Army Chaplins (A HANDBOOK FOR CHAPLAINS). It's interesting to note
that this work seems to be systematically disappearing off of the
government sites and the Internet. 4 years ago I could find multiple
copies of this with a couple of clicks. Today it took me an hour to
find this post, on a private -non-government- site. If you find it
interesting and useful, I suggest you print a hard copy. If you know of
a link to the original DA document in html, doc, or an easier version
to print please post it.)

http://www.baylor.edu/content/servi...t.php/33304.pdf
This is a sophisticated and up to date -2006- poll on religious
believes in the US; fascinating and very well done.

What or which exactly are the "hate" religions? Or perhaps the better
question is which religion has not been used for purposes of "hate"? Or
further, which Truth has not been at some time spun into a lie?

Jared
o
^

The 12 Steps for Fear re-deux www.omjaroo.com

Stu

2006-09-26, 9:28 pm

On 2006-09-26 15:21:47 -0700, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:

>
>
> I am not familiar with any religion promulgated on hate or which I
> would characterize as a "hate" religion. I am aware that many religions
> have been used to sew hate and discontent. But this has never been the
> tenets of the religion but always the action of individual

Last week a group calling itself the "Lions of Monotheism" claimed
responsibility for firebombing 5 churches in the West Bank and Gaza
strip. They said the bombings were carried out to protest the pope's
remarks linking Islam with violence.

--
~Stu

omjaroo

2006-09-27, 2:34 am

Stu,

Now, now young man, I would expect much better from you :-) Would you
like me to add an "s" to the word individual, in my post?

Jared
o
^

howdydave

2006-09-27, 2:34 am

omjaroo wrote:
>
>
> Howdy Dave,
>
> Interesting comment.
>
> I am not familiar with any religion promulgated on hate or which I
> would characterize as a "hate" religion. I am aware that many religions
> have been used to sew hate and discontent. But this has never been the
> tenets of the religion but always the action of individuals.
>
> http://www.heart7.net/toc-chap.html
> This is an outstanding and comprehensive resource for study of
> comparative religions which was developed for the US Dept. of the Army,
> for Army Chaplins (A HANDBOOK FOR CHAPLAINS). It's interesting to note
> that this work seems to be systematically disappearing off of the
> government sites and the Internet. 4 years ago I could find multiple
> copies of this with a couple of clicks. Today it took me an hour to
> find this post, on a private -non-government- site. If you find it
> interesting and useful, I suggest you print a hard copy. If you know of
> a link to the original DA document in html, doc, or an easier version
> to print please post it.)
>
> http://www.baylor.edu/content/servi...t.php/33304.pdf
> This is a sophisticated and up to date -2006- poll on religious
> believes in the US; fascinating and very well done.
>
> What or which exactly are the "hate" religions? Or perhaps the better
> question is which religion has not been used for purposes of "hate"? Or
> further, which Truth has not been at some time spun into a lie?
>
> Jared
> o
> ^
>
> The 12 Steps for Fear re-deux www.omjaroo.com

Howdy Jared!

Sounds like you are talking about "organized religions" or
"denominations."

If I were to make broad generalizations, I guess I would
have to say that some of the AKA's. of hate religions
are:
some cults,
Nazism (in some cases),
al Quaida,
any other fascism or exclusivism claiming
"God's blessing" that uses violence as a tool.

The "religions" that I am talking about are the kinds
that may grow out of hopelessness and dispair.
Others may be due to the deliberate twisting of a religion
to manipulate people living under some form of injustice.

Dave

howdydave

2006-09-27, 2:34 am

howdydave wrote:
> omjaroo wrote:
>
> Howdy Jared!
>
> Sounds like you are talking about "organized religions" or
> "denominations."
>
> If I were to make broad generalizations, I guess I would
> have to say that some of the AKA's. of hate religions
> are:
> some cults,
> Nazism (in some cases),
> al Quaida,
> any other fascism or exclusivism claiming
> "God's blessing" that uses violence as a tool.
>
> The "religions" that I am talking about are the kinds
> that may grow out of hopelessness and dispair.
> Others may be due to the deliberate twisting of a religion
> to manipulate people living under some form of injustice.
>
>
> Dave

Guess I should say that I am using the term RELIGION
as:

"A philosophy, ideal, method or discipline that a person
uses for the purpose of 'self-salvation'."

Dave

howdydave

2006-09-27, 2:34 am

howdydave

2006-09-27, 2:34 am

Richard Corfield

2006-09-27, 4:29 pm

On 2006-09-27, howdydave <howdydave@msn.com> wrote:
>
> "A philosophy, ideal, method or discipline that a person
> uses for the purpose of 'self-salvation'."
> OR
> For those who believe that the final objective is oblivion,
> I guess the purpose would be "to live a good life."
>

We have the difficulty of answering the question "What makes a religion
OK", without referring to a favourite religion to do it. Trying to
answer at the abstract level. I think it all comes down to what's going
on in the individual practitioner's mind.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com>
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, .
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone 3^

The Gare

2006-10-07, 4:27 pm

what if all those "other" gods are simply other manifestations of one God?

What if ONE God is the author of all these different paths to Him and each
path works only in the country in which it was authored?

The Gare

"puma" <sesli.atbisey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159138017.682137.183630@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Bill M is asking a very hard question under the headline "" A SIMPLE
> GOD QUESTION ""
>
> Bill M wrote:
>
>
>
>
> And the answer comes from Sphere :
>
> The real One God of Christianity and the real One
> God of Islam are busy smiting each other right
> now.
> ---
> No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
>

howdydave

2006-10-07, 9:35 pm

Howdy!

As I perceive it:

All "Gods" (along with everything else) are
manifestations of "The One."

Dave

The Gare wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> what if all those "other" gods are simply other manifestations of one God?
>
> What if ONE God is the author of all these different paths to Him and each
> path works only in the country in which it was authored?
>
> The Gare
>
> "puma" <sesli.atbisey@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159138017.682137.183630@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Stu

2006-10-08, 2:32 am

On 2006-10-07 09:06:46 -0700, "The Gare" <anti.altruist@selflish.org> said:

> what if all those "other" gods are simply other manifestations of one God?

Or maybe its done with mirrors.

>
> What if ONE God is the author of all these different paths to Him and
> each path works only in the country in which it was authored?
>
> The Gare

Imagine the bureaucracy involved in god making sure that each culture
is using the right path. The system is more simple. This creative
intelligence does not change. The only alteration is the perceptions
of individuals who detect the presence of The Pattern. They interpret
this singularity using the culture they know.

Too bad people can't get past their warped perceptions.
--
~Stu

Richard Corfield

2006-10-08, 2:32 am

On 2006-10-08, howdydave <howdydave@msn.com> wrote:
>
> As I perceive it:
>
> All "Gods" (along with everything else) are
> manifestations of "The One."

Or even

All Gods are just the way that people interpret The Divine, or given
aspects of The Divine.

In computer programming it's like the Interface Segregation Principle,
only done on the fly. If you accept that whatever The Divine is it's
very big and complex then doing this helps.

I thought Hindus had this concept explicitly. In the Bhagavad Gita though
we also see references like "Those who worship Devas end up with their
Devas" as distinct to "Those who worship [Krisna]", who in the translation
notes is described as a reference to the Brahman/Atman whole.

Could the author have been going into a bit of "My God's better than
yours" or is there a distinction there? Could it be a warning "If you're
doing it because you want to go to heaven, then you'll get your heaven -
for a time anyway". A warning against a form of rajasic worship where
you're not doing it to increase your esteem with the people around you
but with your Deva?

I'd have to get the book out again and reread it.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield@gmail.com>
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, .
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone 3^