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Home > Archive > Yoga > January 2006 > Nothing exist outside yourself!?
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Nothing exist outside yourself!?
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| Johan 2005-12-28, 10:58 am |
| Hi! I have a course where they say nothing exists outside ourselves. We live
in our own personal universes. Like a Matrix where our brains are connected
to a "box". This box coordinates everything and makes us experience the same
things in our individual universes. 2012 and that cosmic cycle might then be
that we evolve away from this box. Self created box perhaps..
What do you think about this? Crazy or.... Interesting that they mention
the cube.
Best wishes
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| omjaroo 2005-12-28, 12:54 pm |
| I vote for crazy :-)
But then I suppose it depends on whether you can "know" it for yourself
or only through the teachers of the course.
Jared
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| On 2005-12-28 09:28:41 -0800, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:
> I vote for crazy :-)
>
> But then I suppose it depends on whether you can "know" it for yourself
> or only through the teachers of the course.
>
> Jared
I am with Jared on this one. Not only is this thesis unsupported by
what we observe, but it doesn't make any sense. We know the "self" is
a construct. The self functions as a personality model to help us
organize the mind. It is in constant flux. Through yoga we learn to
settle the mind, and the self ceases to exist, along with the other
"mind stuff" (citta).
In philosophy, this "matrix" like, brain-in-a-tank thesis is called
solipsism. Its a very easy philosophy to dispute, a google search will
yield much of the crux of this 19th century invention.
If the world was merely a projection of the self, that makes for an
extremely poor basis for the world. Like a house built on a foundation
of ice. This would be contrary to yoga.
Although in yoga there is a philosophy that suggests that consciousness
determines the world. And in many ways it does. Much of our
interpretation of events, people and things in our lives comes from
what we project into the world. For example if we find a person
difficult to deal with, much of that difficulty may be coming from our
selves. Many times our problems with others arise from intolerance.
In yoga we transcend our selves and hopefully in this process is
unveiled the deeper interconnected "wholeness" of the world. From this
perspective we are working well beyond the confines of "The box".
--
~Stu
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| howdydave 2005-12-28, 12:54 pm |
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Howdy Johan!
This sounds like a feeble attempt to explain non-dualism. The only
problem with this is that they didn't regress enough.
They didn't get past "the mind"...
Once you have perceived "the box" you have to think "outside the box!"
OK... The universe is a "projection within the mind"
The next step is that "the mind is a projection within the "jiva"
(perceived Self.)
The "perceived Self" is a projection of Self (aka: Atman)"
The next step is that "the Self/Atman is a projection within Brahman."
Brahman is "unity."
The "mind" gets you past the matter/form.
"Jiva" or "individualized living being" gets you past the body/mind
limitation as far as it can be imagened.
The "Self/Atman" gets you past the time/space limitation.
"Brahman" gets you to the ultimate unity.
If you wish to investigate further, you might want to look into the
concept of "the 5 sheaths" (kosas.)
The 5 sheaths are:
1. The gross physical sheath - made and sustained by food.
2. The vital sheath - consisting of the vital forces.
3. The mental sheath.
4. The sheath of intelligence.
5. The sheath of bliss.
Once you get past the fifth sheeth you get to unity.
--
howdydave
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
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Johan wrote:
> Hi! I have a course where they say nothing exists outside ourselves. We live
> in our own personal universes. Like a Matrix where our brains are connected
> to a "box". This box coordinates everything and makes us experience the same
> things in our individual universes. 2012 and that cosmic cycle might then be
> that we evolve away from this box. Self created box perhaps..
>
> What do you think about this? Crazy or.... Interesting that they mention
> the cube.
>
> Best wishes
I will vote for crazy....:-(
If we are INDEPENDENT beings, we couldn't be talking to each other.
No possible relation...
Relation, talking, means DEPENDENCE, or in other terms, origin and
consequence.
How do you know I exist? Or I don't exist or you don't exist, choose...
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| howdydave 2005-12-28, 6:00 pm |
|
Stu Wrote:
> On 2005-12-28 09:28:41 -0800, "omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> said:
>
> yourself
>
> I am with Jared on this one. Not only is this thesis unsupported by
> what we observe, but it doesn't make any sense. We know the "self" is
> a construct. The self functions as a personality model to help us
> organize the mind. It is in constant flux. Through yoga we learn to
> settle the mind, and the self ceases to exist, along with the other
> "mind stuff" (citta).
>
> In philosophy, this "matrix" like, brain-in-a-tank thesis is called
> solipsism. Its a very easy philosophy to dispute, a google search
> will
> yield much of the crux of this 19th century invention.
>
> If the world was merely a projection of the self, that makes for an
> extremely poor basis for the world. Like a house built on a
> foundation
> of ice. This would be contrary to yoga.
>
> Although in yoga there is a philosophy that suggests that
> consciousness
> determines the world. And in many ways it does. Much of our
> interpretation of events, people and things in our lives comes from
> what we project into the world. For example if we find a person
> difficult to deal with, much of that difficulty may be coming from our
> selves. Many times our problems with others arise from intolerance.
>
> In yoga we transcend our selves and hopefully in this process is
> unveiled the deeper interconnected "wholeness" of the world. From
> this
> perspective we are working well beyond the confines of "The box".
> --
> ~Stu
Howdy!
I wonder what would happen if you didn't study for the final exam?
When you get the exam just make a single entry:
"This class is only a projection in my mind anyway... so whether I
answer the questions correctly or not is immaterial. As long as I think
I'll get an "A" I will pass this course with the highest grade in the
class!"
Do you think that would get you an "A" or an "F"? (It could go either
way!)
--
howdydave
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
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| howdydave 2005-12-28, 6:00 pm |
|
Another thing you might want to investigate is the concept of maya.
--
howdydave
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
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> I vote for crazy :-)
>
> But then I suppose it depends on whether you can "know" it for yourself
> or only through the teachers of the course.
>
> Jared
Itīs a course in meditation and "magick". How to reach Theta and Delta
consciously. Itīs very interesting that they say a cube is connected to all
of us. They geometry of a cube is visible in the stock market price. And i
think Kabbalah has some cube of space.
Some experiments seems to suggest that space is an illusion. Entanglement?!
I am no physicists though.
I think Robert Monroe who studied obe believed that we donīt go outside our
body because we are already everywhere. Our consciousness perhaps.
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| Sevenhundred Elves 2005-12-29, 1:05 am |
| howdydave wrote:
>
> Stu Wrote:
>
> Howdy!
>
> I wonder what would happen if you didn't study for the final exam?
>
> When you get the exam just make a single entry:
>
> "This class is only a projection in my mind anyway... so whether I
> answer the questions correctly or not is immaterial. As long as I think
> I'll get an "A" I will pass this course with the highest grade in the
> class!"
>
> Do you think that would get you an "A" or an "F"? (It could go either
> way!)
What you said is a special case of the general yogic refutation of
Solipsism: If the world is only what we think, we should always be able
to get everything we wish at once, just by thinking it. Yet we don't get
everything we wish in this manner, so therefore the world is not only
what we think, meaning that our mind is separate from the external
objects.
S.
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| On 2005-12-28 16:17:57 -0800, Sevenhundred Elves
<sevenhundred@elves.invalid> said:
> What you said is a special case of the general yogic refutation of
> Solipsism: If the world is only what we think, we should always be able
> to get everything we wish at once, just by thinking it. Yet we don't get
> everything we wish in this manner, so therefore the world is not only
> what we think, meaning that our mind is separate from the external
> objects.
>
> S.
Yes. The mind is a product of the brain, another component of the
physical world. The yogic perspective is to transcend the light and
shadows of mind and body, to see the unifying component of the cosmos.
With this realization the lights and shadows become a good thing.
--
~Stu
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| sprocketsandspokes 2006-01-06, 1:05 am |
|
Johan wrote:
> Hi! I have a course where they say nothing exists outside ourselves. We live
> in our own personal universes. Like a Matrix where our brains are connected
> to a "box". This box coordinates everything and makes us experience the same
> things in our individual universes. 2012 and that cosmic cycle might then be
> that we evolve away from this box. Self created box perhaps..
>
> What do you think about this? Crazy or.... Interesting that they mention
> the cube.
>
there is NOTHING crazy about what you say. thats actually quite
accurate. everything outside of ones own self is really nothing more
than a reflection of your own inner consciousenss....
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| On 2006-01-05 20:30:58 -0800, "sprocketsandspokes"
<bicycletires@yahoo.com> said:
>
> Johan wrote:
>
> there is NOTHING crazy about what you say. thats actually quite
> accurate. everything outside of ones own self is really nothing more
> than a reflection of your own inner consciousenss....
Tell that to the drunk driving straight towards you in the dark of the
night. Rather than take the chance he's a figment I prefer to swerve
out of the way.
--
~Stu
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