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Home > Archive > Yoga > September 2005 > EEG machine?
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| whyzard 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
| A great day for yoga practioners will come when they make affordable
eeg machines for the PC/mac. Then we would get instant feedback on our
yoga practices as well as an objective map of our journeys. Does anyone
here know of one?
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"whyzard" <whyzard@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1126582275.817107.110140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>A great day for yoga practioners will come when they make affordable
> eeg machines for the PC/mac. Then we would get instant feedback on our
> yoga practices as well as an objective map of our journeys. Does anyone
> here know of one?
EEG is pretty elaborate gear and tricky to operate, but you can get a
second-hand unit for a couple hundred bucks or so.
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| Corey White 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
| "Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in news:OrOdnXdTeKpqybveRVn-
pg@comcast.com:
>
> "whyzard" <whyzard@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:1126582275.817107.110140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> EEG is pretty elaborate gear and tricky to operate, but you can get a
> second-hand unit for a couple hundred bucks or so.
>
>
>
I'll buy the equipment, and let you borrow it after awhile. I'll give you
a good deal if you want to buy it used.
Where can I buy good biofeedback EEG equipment anyway? Considering they
are medical tools, I thought you had to be a Doctor.
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"Corey White" <CoreyWhite@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D07416898E2CoreyWhite@216.168.3.44...
> "Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in news:OrOdnXdTeKpqybveRVn-
> pg@comcast.com:
>
>
> I'll buy the equipment, and let you borrow it after awhile. I'll give you
> a good deal if you want to buy it used.
>
> Where can I buy good biofeedback EEG equipment anyway? Considering they
> are medical tools, I thought you had to be a Doctor.
EEG is a device that most biofeedback practitioners don't use, because it
has no practical applications in the field of pain management, which is the
bread and butter of biofeedback technicians, but it's not a controlled
technology. Anybody may get one and use it, even if they don't know how. A
good example of someone using EEG without knowing how is documented by "The
Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, where they
hooked an EEG up to some rhododendrons and decided that the results of this
showed that plants are sentient even though they lack a nervous system.
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| futureritual 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
| 93
whyzard wrote:
> A great day for yoga practioners will come when they make affordable
> eeg machines for the PC/mac. Then we would get instant feedback on our
> yoga practices as well as an objective map of our journeys. Does anyone
> here know of one?
Look to the right side of your screen, where the google ads have picked
up on the term BIOFEEDBACK and are offering ads for equipment. There
are several consumer models of biofeedback (NOT EEG) machines that can
be used to monitor meditation, hypnosis, relaxation, basic brainwave
and hemispheric functions, and so on. I have one called the WaveRider
Pro, that plugs into the serial port on my laptop and is a lot of
fun... A quick google search would turn up plenty of these. I bought
mine used for a couple hundred bucks.
93 93/93
Phil
http://hawkridgeproductions.com/
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| whyzard 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
|
futureritual wrote:
> 93
>
>
> whyzard wrote:
>
>
> Look to the right side of your screen, where the google ads have picked
> up on the term BIOFEEDBACK and are offering ads for equipment. There
> are several consumer models of biofeedback (NOT EEG) machines that can
> be used to monitor meditation, hypnosis, relaxation, basic brainwave
> and hemispheric functions, and so on. I have one called the WaveRider
> Pro, that plugs into the serial port on my laptop and is a lot of
> fun... A quick google search would turn up plenty of these. I bought
> mine used for a couple hundred bucks.
>
> 93 93/93
> Phil
> http://hawkridgeproductions.com/
Thanks for the advice. Found this one:
http://www.mindmedia.nl/eng/index.htm
it's only two channels so it can't be that expensive. Your waverider
pro listed for $1,700 and it isn't an EEG.
One time a researcher (Marvin Spiegelman, the writer) offered to hook
me up to an EEG lab cause i told him i had a subtle body. I don't
really have a subtle body. What i was planning to do was take LSD and
not tell him i was high. I just wanted to see what my LSD EEG traces
looked like during delirium which i used to have a talent for. I never
did it though, can't remember why. I should have just told him i was
gonna take LSD. He probably would have done it anyway. Too late now,
LSD doesn't take me over the edge anymore. My tolerance is very high
now.
And corey, don't go buy one. You're too overzealous about doing stuff.
Are you a zelator or practicus? It's corey---the LAST judgement.
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"Corey White" <CoreyWhite@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D166DC8BBFDCoreyWhite@216.168.3.44...
>
> Do you think I should buy biofeedback equipment that measures GSR &
> Heart Rate? The wave rider you mentioned does that and it measures EEG
> and EMG Muscle Tension. Tom said that there are no good uses for EEGs
> in biofeedback, and I've read they are hard to use, and can be
> unreliable.
>
> I would like to work with biofeedback, and measuring brain activity
> appeals to me. What equipment do you think is the best?
>
> Tom, do you know of any good biofeedback machines?
Phil's recommendation of the WaveRider Pro is a good one. On the down-side,
it costs around $1700 for a new one. You might be able to find a used one
at a lesser price, but with finicky equipment like biofeedback tools, it's a
good idea to get some sort of warrantee, which you don't generally get when
you buy used.
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| Corey White 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
| "Tom" <askpermission@comcast.net> wrote in
news:N_SdnZAWWc_oqbXeRVn-uw@comcast.com:
>
> "Corey White" <CoreyWhite@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D166DC8BBFDCoreyWhite@216.168.3.44...
>
> Phil's recommendation of the WaveRider Pro is a good one. On the
> down-side, it costs around $1700 for a new one. You might be able to
> find a used one at a lesser price, but with finicky equipment like
> biofeedback tools, it's a good idea to get some sort of warrantee,
> which you don't generally get when you buy used.
>
>
>
>
I think I'll have to get the WaveRider then. There are a lot of
webpages that say the BrainMaster is the best EEG tool for home use,
because of its software. I found some other software that can do a lot
more than what the BrainMaster comes with: http://bioera.net/
I doubt the BrainMasters software is really very good, & the Bio Era
software is really what makes me want to buy a biofeedback machine. The
BrainMaster does come with a SDK to develop your own programs, but the
Bio Era software can create multi-media programs too, and you don't have
to code in C++;
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| whyzard 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
|
Corey White wrote:
>
> Do you think I should buy biofeedback equipment that measures GSR &
> Heart Rate? The wave rider you mentioned does that and it measures EEG
> and EMG Muscle Tension. Tom said that there are no good uses for EEGs
> in biofeedback, and I've read they are hard to use, and can be
> unreliable.
GSR and heart rate are useless because when you are experienced with
yoga, the first thing you notice is your GSR and anyone with a heart
knows how fast it is beating. I think your heart is the best indicator
of how fast your heart rate is going. Biofeedback is also stupid
because when you are doing yoga your goal is timelessness and what use
is feedback in the moment when you are in trans-time?
The only use for these measuring devices is for making a map of your
journeys. At the middle of the session, for about 3 hours, i was in
dharana, and for about 70% of the time during these hours, the
brainwaves measured alpha. The you can go back and try to use the map
as a guide to return to the brainwaves.
It's like a person looking for 1st street and when he gets to 1st
street asks the tarot if he is close to 1st street. And the 1st tarot
card is 1 of pantacles and the next card is the fool.
>
> I would like to work with biofeedback, and measuring brain activity
> appeals to me. What equipment do you think is the best? I don't want
> to buy one just because a webpage says it is the best tool out there.
>
> Tom, do you know of any good biofeedback machines?
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"whyzard" <whyzard@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1126764264.679307.256710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> GSR and heart rate are useless because when you are experienced with
> yoga, the first thing you notice is your GSR and anyone with a heart
> knows how fast it is beating. I think your heart is the best indicator
> of how fast your heart rate is going. Biofeedback is also stupid
> because when you are doing yoga your goal is timelessness and what use
> is feedback in the moment when you are in trans-time?
GSR is is measure of skin conductance. It varies by the amount of fluids on
the surface of the skin and the conductivity of those fluids. It correlates
fairly well with hormonal changes that cannot be perceived directly by the
individual. It's not the most accurate measure in the biofeedback toolbox,
but it is often helpful.
As for counting your heart-rate, that is a very primitive form of getting
feebback, but it has some disadvantages to measuring it mechanically. For
one, you have to pay attention to your heart rate to count it, which
rtestricts the level of attention you can pay to activities other than
counting. If you want to measure your heart rate while you are attending
closely to something else, you will want to use a mechanical method to do
so.
The goals of biofeedback are not exactly the same as the goals of yoga,
although they have some goals in common. I agree with you in that it is
stupid to think they are done with precisely the same intent.
> The only use for these measuring devices is for making a map of your
> journeys.
There are lots of uses for these measures other than mapping one's spiritual
journeys. However, they can be used to measure some of the changes that the
practice of yoga or any other form of meditation will produce.
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| futureritual 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
| 93
Corey White wrote:
> Do you think I should buy biofeedback equipment that measures GSR &
> Heart Rate? The wave rider you mentioned does that and it measures EEG
> and EMG Muscle Tension. Tom said that there are no good uses for EEGs
> in biofeedback, and I've read they are hard to use, and can be
> unreliable.
>
> I would like to work with biofeedback, and measuring brain activity
> appeals to me. What equipment do you think is the best? I don't want
> to buy one just because a webpage says it is the best tool out there.
The EEG functions on the WaveRider are fairly easy to use... if you
don't mind electrode gook in your hair... There are plenty of fun
things you can do with GSR and heartrate... and heartrate monitors and
simple GSR-only devices are much less expensive. I use an exercise
heartrate monitor when I do hypnosis and state control demonstrations.
That was given to me for free...
Some of the fun with the EEG functions on the WaveRider include
monitoring hemispheric activity... For most of it, tho, rather than
simply looking for specific frequencies that you have read about, it's
much more interesting to elicit specific states, calibrate their
signature in one of the WaveRider programs, and then play around with
techniques to reactive those particular states. Oh yeah... and the
WaveRider is fun to make music with.
Anyway... I bought mine used for a couple of hundred and it has
functioned nicely for several years. Unfortunately, New York State has
just changed its laws regarding biofeedback and I can presently no
longer offer it with my hypnosis services. I'll have to shell out and
get a special state biofeedback license... Maybe... if I have time for
it.
93 93/93
Phil
http://hawkridgeproductions.com/
| |
| Corey White 2005-09-24, 2:26 pm |
| "futureritual" <primordial_stu@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1127000881.914482.191010@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> 93
>
> Corey White wrote:
EEG[vbcol=seagreen]
EEGs[vbcol=seagreen]
want[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> The EEG functions on the WaveRider are fairly easy to use... if you
> don't mind electrode gook in your hair... There are plenty of fun
> things you can do with GSR and heartrate... and heartrate monitors and
> simple GSR-only devices are much less expensive. I use an exercise
> heartrate monitor when I do hypnosis and state control demonstrations.
> That was given to me for free...
>
> Some of the fun with the EEG functions on the WaveRider include
> monitoring hemispheric activity... For most of it, tho, rather than
> simply looking for specific frequencies that you have read about, it's
> much more interesting to elicit specific states, calibrate their
> signature in one of the WaveRider programs, and then play around with
> techniques to reactive those particular states. Oh yeah... and the
> WaveRider is fun to make music with.
>
> Anyway... I bought mine used for a couple of hundred and it has
> functioned nicely for several years. Unfortunately, New York State has
> just changed its laws regarding biofeedback and I can presently no
> longer offer it with my hypnosis services. I'll have to shell out and
> get a special state biofeedback license... Maybe... if I have time for
> it.
>
> 93 93/93
> Phil
> http://hawkridgeproductions.com/
>
>
Thanks Phil.
You should keep working with biofeedback, even if you have to get a
license. The company that I ordered the waverider from told me I didn't
even need a prescription.
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