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HW MH RAMA KRISHNA CHARGED VIVEKANANDA!
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Does any of you know how much Rama Krishna charhed Vivekananda to
teach yoga?
Do you think such a ction took place?
They both knew that it was against to charge for such an instruction by
APARIGRAHA
With compassion,
Puma
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| omjaroo 2005-08-26, 5:55 pm |
| >Does any of you know how much Rama Krishna charhed Vivekananda to >=E2=80=
=A8teach yoga?
A lot, is what Rama Krishna charged Vivekananda to teach him. A sum
perhaps greater then any of us would ever be willing to pay.
>A seller ( Seller gets some sort of collection in return)
Rama Krishna, the seller, no doubt would have had minimum requirements
for providing his service. In this case I believe it was a lifetime
commitment and the surrender of all wealth and possessions for life as
well.
> B) A buyer (Buyer should spend some sort of collection for this)
Vivekananda, the buyer did in fact commit himself to release and/or
cause to be donated every penny he would earn for the remained of his
life. Considering his extensive writing and speaking it would be easy
to estimate this to be worth millions.
> c) A service or commodity...
Teaching and providing information has long been recognized as service
and/or commodity.
> D) Service or commodity should be legal... That is by law its selling
> is fine...
I don=E2=80=99t believe the relative legality of an item, bought, sold or
traded either enables or bars it from being bought, sold or traded. As
long as you have a buyer and a seller you have a =E2=80=9Cdeal=E2=80=9D.
Puma, money is a symbol. It represents effort or forbearance. Otherwise
it has no meaning, it is simply pretty paper and/or coin. While some of
it theoretically could be used in the bathroom, the other is pretty
useless except perhaps for jewelry or to teach kids counting :-)
Whether one teaches yoga for trade or cash is not the issue. The issue
is the individuals motivation for teaching or learning yoga. Why are
you insisting otherwise?
Jared
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"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125078937.800675.299200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Does any of you know how much Rama Krishna charhed Vivekananda to
> teach yoga?
>
> Do you think such a ction took place?
>
> They both knew that it was against to charge for such an instruction by
> APARIGRAHA
>
the society Ramakrishna lived is not the one of today. today you have to
make a living. to pay rent and stay alive. hence demanding money for one's
time is understandable.
that said, in the traditional system, the student gave the 'daan' and then
'dakshina' to the guru. one of the purposes of that was to acknowledge that
the guru and his family could not live on air alone.
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omjaroo wrote:
=80=A8teach yoga?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> A lot, is what Rama Krishna charged Vivekananda to teach him. A sum
> perhaps greater then any of us would ever be willing to pay.
>
>
> Rama Krishna, the seller, no doubt would have had minimum requirements
> for providing his service. In this case I believe it was a lifetime
> commitment and the surrender of all wealth and possessions for life as
> well.
>
>
> Vivekananda, the buyer did in fact commit himself to release and/or
> cause to be donated every penny he would earn for the remained of his
> life. Considering his extensive writing and speaking it would be easy
> to estimate this to be worth millions.
>
>
> Teaching and providing information has long been recognized as service
> and/or commodity.
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe the relative legality of an item, bought, sold or
> traded either enables or bars it from being bought, sold or traded. As
> long as you have a buyer and a seller you have a =E2=80=9Cdeal=E2=80=9D.
>
> Puma, money is a symbol. It represents effort or forbearance. Otherwise
> it has no meaning, it is simply pretty paper and/or coin. While some of
> it theoretically could be used in the bathroom, the other is pretty
> useless except perhaps for jewelry or to teach kids counting :-)
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
> Whether one teaches yoga for trade or cash is not the issue. The issue
> is the individuals motivation for teaching or learning yoga. Why are
> you insisting otherwise?
>
> Jared
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Hi Jared,
What you have written is really perfect from only retorical point of
view. This assay would gain 100 points ++ over 100 points.
If real issue is really focused on the individuals motivation for
teaching or learning yoga, A P A R I G R A H A should be taken into
account,as all the others have to be taken too. YOGA is the name of a
complete act.An UNION with your terms.
No one has a right to seperate this WHOLENESS.
I am not the one insisting nonsense, I am the one repeating the rules
of YOGA...
Seems to me some body is insisting to take some rules out of yoga and
completely different material are being packed up and presented as yoga
now days...Why don`t you try to see the real innsistant people?
With compassion,
Puma
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| Dear Anon,
Time might be different but same necessities continue! Today no one has
a right to hide himself/herself behind the MAKE LIVING .
Today may be more choices can be counted for living
matter...Vivekananda even did not want some knowledge to learn although
it was presented to him by Ramakrishna. Here the only point to notice
is. Vivekananda was a real student of yoga and Ramakrishna was also a
real teacher of yoga. They did performed their instruction withing the
limits of YOGA SUTRAS of Sri Patanjali.
Now again there are people who teach yoga on a free basis. And these
people getting their living from some other occupations!
Yoga is not a profession, or an occupation... Yoga is the name of
WHOLENESS. First lesson should be this.If this is not known we can try
to hide our poor wishes behind the curtains that we invent!
With compassion,
Puma
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| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| Thanks for the high marks in rhetorical discourse :-) Although I am not
certain that is a good thing :-( My thesaurus describes rhetorical
as:
1. relating to the skill of using language effectively and persuasively
2. relating to or using language that is elaborate or fine-sounding but
insincere
Which did you mean? Or did you perhaps mean theoretical or
hypothetical, as in a "perfect world".
Be that as it may, I still don't understand why this position you are
taking is meaningful to you or why it should be meaningful to me.
As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
So the exchange of money, goods or services in the attempt to gain what
is already ours is a "moot" point. The only meaning I can imagine is
for the individual who teaches yoga or the individual who learns yoga
to inquire (jnana) as to the purpose/motivation of their endeavor. Does
their "desire" to teach or learn bring them closer to the Truth or does
is take them farther away. We must all eventually ask and understand
why we are trying to learn yoga when we are already, Yoga The
yamas/niyamas are devices intended to lead others to the Truth; they do
not define the Truth. Because the Truth is, even the yamas/niyamas are
lies/fictions. There is only Yoga now, there always has been and there
always will be. Any perception/believe/idea to the contrary is a
lie/fabrication and is the function of maya.
So can you please explain more clearly why this is so important to you.
Jared
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"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125173478.915890.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Dear Anon,
>
> Time might be different but same necessities continue! Today no one has
> a right to hide himself/herself behind the MAKE LIVING .
> Today may be more choices can be counted for living
> matter...Vivekananda even did not want some knowledge to learn although
> it was presented to him by Ramakrishna. Here the only point to notice
> is. Vivekananda was a real student of yoga and Ramakrishna was also a
> real teacher of yoga. They did performed their instruction withing the
> limits of YOGA SUTRAS of Sri Patanjali.
>
but what is the problem here? if money changes hands intentions become
impure?
eventually yoga cannot be taught, much less taught for money. the student
has to find the way, and all the teacher can do is to encourage him that the
goal is reachable. you are talking of saints. how many such saints are
around today? and even if they are, they need money to survive. charlatans
of course are after your money. even the buddha begged in order to stay
alive. how is that in principle different from asking for money and then
buying food with the money?
today, time is money, because, you need to pay money someone to have the
privilege of existing (or sleeping) "on private land" during that time. this
is called rent. so, accept money as an unavoidable factor in most of our
social situations.
| |
| Dave ©¿©¬ 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| "anon" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:i4CdnZIwdpUxYI3eRVn-3w@pghconnect.com...
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125173478.915890.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> but what is the problem here? if money changes hands intentions become
> impure?
>
> eventually yoga cannot be taught, much less taught for money. the student
> has to find the way, and all the teacher can do is to encourage him that
the
> goal is reachable. you are talking of saints. how many such saints are
> around today? and even if they are, they need money to survive. charlatans
> of course are after your money. even the buddha begged in order to stay
> alive. how is that in principle different from asking for money and then
> buying food with the money?
>
> today, time is money, because, you need to pay money someone to have the
> privilege of existing (or sleeping) "on private land" during that time.
this
> is called rent. so, accept money as an unavoidable factor in most of our
> social situations.
>
>
Howdy!
If my memory of Christian history is correct, St. Paul made his money by
practicing his profession as a tent-maker! He was not above accepting a
donation for his ministry, but he separated his work from his "mission
work."
--
Namaste
Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"
http://www.howdydave.com
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omjaroo wrote:
> Thanks for the high marks in rhetorical discourse :-) Although I am not
> certain that is a good thing :-( My thesaurus describes rhetorical
> as:
>
> 1. relating to the skill of using language effectively and persuasively
>
> 2. relating to or using language that is elaborate or fine-sounding but
> insincere
>
> Which did you mean? Or did you perhaps mean theoretical or
> hypothetical, as in a "perfect world".
>
> Be that as it may, I still don't understand why this position you are
> taking is meaningful to you or why it should be meaningful to me.
Omjaroo,
My dear friend, this is what I am after, to hear,to learn others ideas
and thoughts on a subject matter . To see if others have different
ideas or the same!Following are yours:
"As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
So the exchange of money"
If we can not buy or sell what is already ours,then trying to do it or
pretending to do it means all FALSE...Only sharlatans try to do it!
I am very pleased to see tthat we have the same thoughts.
Thanks a lot for you always try to understand the main point.
With compassion,
Puma
>
> As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
> endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
> is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
>
> The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
> So the exchange of money, goods or services in the attempt to gain what
> is already ours is a "moot" point. The only meaning I can imagine is
> for the individual who teaches yoga or the individual who learns yoga
> to inquire (jnana) as to the purpose/motivation of their endeavor. Does
> their "desire" to teach or learn bring them closer to the Truth or does
> is take them farther away. We must all eventually ask and understand
> why we are trying to learn yoga when we are already, Yoga The
> yamas/niyamas are devices intended to lead others to the Truth; they do
> not define the Truth. Because the Truth is, even the yamas/niyamas are
> lies/fictions. There is only Yoga now, there always has been and there
> always will be. Any perception/believe/idea to the contrary is a
> lie/fabrication and is the function of maya.
>
> So can you please explain more clearly why this is so important to you.
>
> Jared
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| Anon,
Dear friend, if "eventually yoga can not be taught,much less taught for
money" Then these people, I mean these yoga instructors are not saying
the truth. This is what I am trying to explain...
Profession and Mission are two different acts. One may be to survive
and other to help.There is no SAINTS ,but only YOU.We are all sleeping
SAINTS. To beg to survive is not right. Even if he is BUDDHA. There are
many actions that BUDDHA was wrong...
So if there is any SAINT in this world it is YOU , my dear friend...You
are the one,to see,to evaluate, to live...
This is what I am trying to explain in a way...
thanks for your kind participation.
With compassion,
Puma
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"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125237495.455178.208930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Profession and Mission are two different acts. One may be to survive
> and other to help.There is no SAINTS ,but only YOU.We are all sleeping
> SAINTS. To beg to survive is not right. Even if he is BUDDHA. There are
> many actions that BUDDHA was wrong...
>
there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
particular course of action out of the various choices.
buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was accepted
for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and you'll
see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to start
working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
culturally accepted.
> So if there is any SAINT in this world it is YOU , my dear friend...You
as you said there are sleeping saints and awakened saints. there is a
difference right there.
an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
| |
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"Dave ©¿©¬" <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> wrote in message
news:raaQe.1053$Xo3.682@news01.roc.ny...
>
> If my memory of Christian history is correct, St. Paul made his money by
> practicing his profession as a tent-maker! He was not above accepting a
> donation for his ministry, but he separated his work from his "mission
> work."
>
part of the reason is that in those days life was easy to live. competition
for resources was less and people had more spare time to for
extra-professional work. usually they would just sow the fields and wait for
the harvest.
today it is work all year round. after work, people are quite tired and
anyway have little time after the commute, office, etc.
this is the reality of modern life. if today you have to pay for everything,
i fail to understand why the reluctance to pay for spiritual guidance? and
if the teacher has to make a living elsewhere, that is just leaving him less
energy and time to help those in need.
this is called "division of labour" in economics. one does for a living what
one is good at. this is the major reason for the increase in standard of
living in modern society.
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| anon wrote:
> there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
> action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
> personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
> particular course of action out of the various choices. ..
Well, the real root (for lack of a better word) is the Tao.
>
> an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
> of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
> the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
> thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
>
>
Ever met a Saint?
77
The way of heaven is like the bending
of a bow.
What is high up gets pulled down.
What is low down gets pulled up.
Heaven takes from that has too much and
gives to what doesn't have enough.
Man is different:
he takes from those who have too little
and gives to those who have too much.
Who has a genuine abundance to give to the world?
Only a person of Tao.
He acts without expectation,
accomplishes without taking credit,
and has no desire to display his merit.
--------
The Tao Te Ching, Lao Tzu
Translated by Brian Browne Walker
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"Wade Humeniuk" <whumeniu+anti+spam@telus.net> wrote in message
news:4WnQe.216429$tt5.23455@edtnps90...
>
> Who has a genuine abundance to give to the world?
> Only a person of Tao.
>
even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
world is because that is the way it should be.
as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
| |
|
| Anon,
My dear friend, following are your words:
"there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand.
every
action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
particular course of action out of the various choices.
buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was
accepted
for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and
you'll
see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to
start
working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
culturally accepted."
If there is no right and wrong why were the all efforts of these saints
or gurus or teachers or Buddha or Christ or others they all tried to
teach and tried to show? I know for sure CAUSE and RESULT are connected
each other in a very tightly.If any action is CORRECT ,it is correct
for ever.If its correctness is changeble,that is if its correctness is
not constant then we are wasting time for looking TRUTH.
Buddhist Monks even today are begging in many places of the
world...Buddha said no attachment, then all the Buddhist are attached
to REBIRTH still today.
Without attaching Sangha,Dharma and Buddha no one can be a BUDDHIST!
I can count hundreds of contradictions although I love Sidarta Gotama
very much.
Time changing because there is a movement. But this does not help to
hide our mistakes behind conditions or living etc.
In Buddhas` time there were people living in very good places and
people were there on streets... Still same thing continue in India or
any other places on this earth.
There are things that can not be sold...and yoga for Sri PATANJALI and
for me and for some other people is from these sort of actions...please
think of a father or a mother showing the right way of living to
his/her children,do these people charge them for this action?
May be I am a stupid person so that can not see the TRUTH...Because
only smart ones might see it,and get the benefit out of almost
everything...
With compassion,
Puma
anon wrote:
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125237495.455178.208930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
> action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
> personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
> particular course of action out of the various choices.
> buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was accepted
> for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and you'll
> see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to start
> working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
> culturally accepted.
>
>
> as you said there are sleeping saints and awakened saints. there is a
> difference right there.
>
> an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
> of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
> the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
> thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| anon wrote:
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
>
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
>
> as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
>
Come come ...
Say one kind and good thing.
Wade
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
|
anon wrote:
> "Wade Humeniuk" <whumeniu+anti+spam@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:4WnQe.216429$tt5.23455@edtnps90...
>
>
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
>
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
>
> as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
To paraphrase one great sage, "Your world is your idea."
| |
|
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"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125264369.648243.56680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> If there is no right and wrong why were the all efforts of these saints
> or gurus or teachers or Buddha or Christ or others they all tried to
> teach and tried to show? I know for sure CAUSE and RESULT are connected
compassion for those suffering in the fires of sansara.
> each other in a very tightly.If any action is CORRECT ,it is correct
> for ever.If its correctness is changeble,that is if its correctness is
> not constant then we are wasting time for looking TRUTH.
>
there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering. some
actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
this is causality. not right and wrong.
right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a society.
for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
cannabalise missionaries.
> Buddhist Monks even today are begging in many places of the
> world...Buddha said no attachment, then all the Buddhist are attached
> to REBIRTH still today.
> Without attaching Sangha,Dharma and Buddha no one can be a BUDDHIST!
>
you can be a buddhist and not be attached to buddhism. it is all in the
degree of awareness.
>
> There are things that can not be sold...and yoga for Sri PATANJALI and
> for me and for some other people is from these sort of actions...please
yoga cannot be sold. however teaching of yoga requires time, and time of a
person is essentially being sold. when you work for someone, you are selling
your time for money. of course the masters will usually teach without
compensation, but that is their graciousness.
so, time spent teaching yoga, can be sold. because time is money.
> think of a father or a mother showing the right way of living to
> his/her children,do these people charge them for this action?
>
in many cultures, one of the reasons for having children is so that they
will support the parents in old age. this is also a kind of transaction. one
of the reasons of decline of population in the west is that people do not
have to rely on children in old age, and one of the reasons for having
children is not there anymore.
> May be I am a stupid person so that can not see the TRUTH...Because
> only smart ones might see it,and get the benefit out of almost
> everything...
>
there are many ways to look at a thing, and i am presenting the way i find
reasonable, according to my conditioning and experiences.
| |
|
|
>
> Come come ...
>
> Say one kind and good thing.
>
"my bad". i got carried away in the problems of sansara. we are here to
help.
| |
| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| >> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these app=
ear
=E2=80=A8>> world is because that is the way it should be.[vbcol=seagreen]
s =E2=80=A8>> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>"my bad". i got carried away in the problems of sansara. we are here to
>help. =E2=80=A8
Anon,
Well if that's you when you're bad, I can't wait to see you when you're
good :-)
Not only did I think your comments were "right on the money" but
personally I thought what you said was exceptionally good and very
kind.
If I had a booger hanging from my nose I would appreciate you telling
me, even if painful and embarrassing for the both of us. This I would
consider truly kind. I would respect you for having the courage and the
compassion to suffer that awkward moment with me. For all those who
thought they were being kind by not saying anything and allowing me to
look a fool, I would grieve for them, their lack of courage.
Sometimes compassion dictates that we "hurt" someone else (and
therefore ourselves) in discharging our duty. Have you ever lanced a
boil for someone or informed them their lover was cheating on them? IME
(in my experience) compassion requires courage and stomach and is not
for the weak.
BTW I do believe it is spelled samsara (with an m ;-)
=20
Jared
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| anon wrote:
>
>
> "my bad". i got carried away in the problems of sansara. we are here to
> help.
>
>
I am not the type of person that says "Don't make me hit you!".
You hear this all the time, as if the person is compelled by
another person's behaviour to harm them (and justify it based
on some good). The person hitting is responsible for their own
actions.
Going back top the original Tao passage
Heaven takes from what has too much and
gives to what doesn't have enough.
Man is different:
he takes from those who have too little
and gives to those who have too much.
In the context of your reply
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
Here is giving (praise) to those who have too much (the saint (and who do not
want it by the way)) and taking from those who have too little (those the
saint cannot give too)
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
This is like the crappy parent's "Don't make me hit you" and "You got what you
deserved, you little ****". There is nothing like the self-flagellation
of this mindset to create suffering in the world. The evil is in a parent
instilling in a child's mind that they are worthless and undeserving. (and
deserve to be hit)
I guess I will post this story again ...
http://www3.telus.net/public/whumeniu/kung_fu.txt
Wade
| |
|
| My dear Anon,
I appreciate your reasoning.Meantime I notice your following words;
"there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering.
some
actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
this is causality. not right and wrong. "
If right and wrong are absent,then HAPPINES and SUFFERING are also
absent.These only according to the sensual standards of a person...
Same logic helps my explanation too...
If we want, we can create all the situations...But we can not create
REALITY...
Reality is like the sun. Everybody even blind people are aware of the
sun. REALITY is like the sun!
With compassion,
Puma
right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a
society.
for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
cannabalise missionaries.
anon wrote:
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125264369.648243.56680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> compassion for those suffering in the fires of sansara.
>
>
> there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering. some
> actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
>
> this is causality. not right and wrong.
>
> right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a society.
> for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
> cannabalise missionaries.
>
>
> you can be a buddhist and not be attached to buddhism. it is all in the
> degree of awareness.
>
>
> yoga cannot be sold. however teaching of yoga requires time, and time of a
> person is essentially being sold. when you work for someone, you are selling
> your time for money. of course the masters will usually teach without
> compensation, but that is their graciousness.
>
> so, time spent teaching yoga, can be sold. because time is money.
>
>
> in many cultures, one of the reasons for having children is so that they
> will support the parents in old age. this is also a kind of transaction. one
> of the reasons of decline of population in the west is that people do not
> have to rely on children in old age, and one of the reasons for having
> children is not there anymore.
>
>
> there are many ways to look at a thing, and i am presenting the way i find
> reasonable, according to my conditioning and experiences.
| |
|
|
"omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125536998.333070.311660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>BTW I do believe it is spelled samsara (with an m ;-)
Jared,
thanks for the kind words.
i am a native hindi speaker and i can assure you the correct word is
pronounced as with an "n". for some reason when the sanskrit words were
transcribed to english things were not done the obvious way. so yes, today
in roman letters the "m" would make more sense as that has become the norm.
| |
| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
| Your welcome and thank-you for the thoroughly gracious and utterly
appropriate admonition :-)
Jared
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-09-24, 2:09 pm |
|
omjaroo wrote:
=80=A8teach yoga?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> A lot, is what Rama Krishna charged Vivekananda to teach him. A sum
> perhaps greater then any of us would ever be willing to pay.
>
>
> Rama Krishna, the seller, no doubt would have had minimum requirements
> for providing his service. In this case I believe it was a lifetime
> commitment and the surrender of all wealth and possessions for life as
> well.
>
>
> Vivekananda, the buyer did in fact commit himself to release and/or
> cause to be donated every penny he would earn for the remained of his
> life. Considering his extensive writing and speaking it would be easy
> to estimate this to be worth millions.
>
>
> Teaching and providing information has long been recognized as service
> and/or commodity.
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe the relative legality of an item, bought, sold or
> traded either enables or bars it from being bought, sold or traded. As
> long as you have a buyer and a seller you have a =E2=80=9Cdeal=E2=80=9D.
>
> Puma, money is a symbol. It represents effort or forbearance. Otherwise
> it has no meaning, it is simply pretty paper and/or coin. While some of
> it theoretically could be used in the bathroom, the other is pretty
> useless except perhaps for jewelry or to teach kids counting :-)
>
> Whether one teaches yoga for trade or cash is not the issue. The issue
> is the individuals motivation for teaching or learning yoga. Why are
> you insisting otherwise?
>
> Jared
Seems to me that Ramakrishna did not charge any one to teach them.
He did not have a clerk at his door collecting admission,
50 rupees for general admission, 100 rupees for front row seats.
He did not offer weekend specials , two for the price of one.
He did not up his prices because he wanted to take a winter cruise down
the Ganges or re-carpet the foyer.
That said, he did receive benefit from those he taught.
Those he taught were inspired to give for his upkeep, inspired by dint
of Ramakrishna=E2=80=99s spiritual presence, abilities, by the personal
benefit they received from his spiritual teachings.
Some, such as Vivekananda, were inspired to dedicate their lives to the
mission; however such was not a requirement of receiving
Ramakrishna=E2=80=99s teachings.
Teaching for the benefit of the students and having students inspired
to give freely for the benefit they recieve is very different from
selling one's time and charging so much $ per head to come through the
door, or so much for this bit of philosophy, so much for that asana
series, so much for this meditation technique and more for the next.
http://www.kathamrita.org/KathamritaMain.htm
| |
|
|
omjaroo wrote:
=80=A8teach yoga?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> A lot, is what Rama Krishna charged Vivekananda to teach him. A sum
> perhaps greater then any of us would ever be willing to pay.
>
>
> Rama Krishna, the seller, no doubt would have had minimum requirements
> for providing his service. In this case I believe it was a lifetime
> commitment and the surrender of all wealth and possessions for life as
> well.
>
>
> Vivekananda, the buyer did in fact commit himself to release and/or
> cause to be donated every penny he would earn for the remained of his
> life. Considering his extensive writing and speaking it would be easy
> to estimate this to be worth millions.
>
>
> Teaching and providing information has long been recognized as service
> and/or commodity.
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe the relative legality of an item, bought, sold or
> traded either enables or bars it from being bought, sold or traded. As
> long as you have a buyer and a seller you have a =E2=80=9Cdeal=E2=80=9D.
>
> Puma, money is a symbol. It represents effort or forbearance. Otherwise
> it has no meaning, it is simply pretty paper and/or coin. While some of
> it theoretically could be used in the bathroom, the other is pretty
> useless except perhaps for jewelry or to teach kids counting :-)
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
> Whether one teaches yoga for trade or cash is not the issue. The issue
> is the individuals motivation for teaching or learning yoga. Why are
> you insisting otherwise?
>
> Jared
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Hi Jared,
What you have written is really perfect from only retorical point of
view. This assay would gain 100 points ++ over 100 points.
If real issue is really focused on the individuals motivation for
teaching or learning yoga, A P A R I G R A H A should be taken into
account,as all the others have to be taken too. YOGA is the name of a
complete act.An UNION with your terms.
No one has a right to seperate this WHOLENESS.
I am not the one insisting nonsense, I am the one repeating the rules
of YOGA...
Seems to me some body is insisting to take some rules out of yoga and
completely different material are being packed up and presented as yoga
now days...Why don`t you try to see the real innsistant people?
With compassion,
Puma
| |
|
| Dear Anon,
Time might be different but same necessities continue! Today no one has
a right to hide himself/herself behind the MAKE LIVING .
Today may be more choices can be counted for living
matter...Vivekananda even did not want some knowledge to learn although
it was presented to him by Ramakrishna. Here the only point to notice
is. Vivekananda was a real student of yoga and Ramakrishna was also a
real teacher of yoga. They did performed their instruction withing the
limits of YOGA SUTRAS of Sri Patanjali.
Now again there are people who teach yoga on a free basis. And these
people getting their living from some other occupations!
Yoga is not a profession, or an occupation... Yoga is the name of
WHOLENESS. First lesson should be this.If this is not known we can try
to hide our poor wishes behind the curtains that we invent!
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| Thanks for the high marks in rhetorical discourse :-) Although I am not
certain that is a good thing :-( My thesaurus describes rhetorical
as:
1. relating to the skill of using language effectively and persuasively
2. relating to or using language that is elaborate or fine-sounding but
insincere
Which did you mean? Or did you perhaps mean theoretical or
hypothetical, as in a "perfect world".
Be that as it may, I still don't understand why this position you are
taking is meaningful to you or why it should be meaningful to me.
As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
So the exchange of money, goods or services in the attempt to gain what
is already ours is a "moot" point. The only meaning I can imagine is
for the individual who teaches yoga or the individual who learns yoga
to inquire (jnana) as to the purpose/motivation of their endeavor. Does
their "desire" to teach or learn bring them closer to the Truth or does
is take them farther away. We must all eventually ask and understand
why we are trying to learn yoga when we are already, Yoga The
yamas/niyamas are devices intended to lead others to the Truth; they do
not define the Truth. Because the Truth is, even the yamas/niyamas are
lies/fictions. There is only Yoga now, there always has been and there
always will be. Any perception/believe/idea to the contrary is a
lie/fabrication and is the function of maya.
So can you please explain more clearly why this is so important to you.
Jared
| |
|
|
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125173478.915890.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Dear Anon,
>
> Time might be different but same necessities continue! Today no one has
> a right to hide himself/herself behind the MAKE LIVING .
> Today may be more choices can be counted for living
> matter...Vivekananda even did not want some knowledge to learn although
> it was presented to him by Ramakrishna. Here the only point to notice
> is. Vivekananda was a real student of yoga and Ramakrishna was also a
> real teacher of yoga. They did performed their instruction withing the
> limits of YOGA SUTRAS of Sri Patanjali.
>
but what is the problem here? if money changes hands intentions become
impure?
eventually yoga cannot be taught, much less taught for money. the student
has to find the way, and all the teacher can do is to encourage him that the
goal is reachable. you are talking of saints. how many such saints are
around today? and even if they are, they need money to survive. charlatans
of course are after your money. even the buddha begged in order to stay
alive. how is that in principle different from asking for money and then
buying food with the money?
today, time is money, because, you need to pay money someone to have the
privilege of existing (or sleeping) "on private land" during that time. this
is called rent. so, accept money as an unavoidable factor in most of our
social situations.
| |
| Dave ©¿©¬ 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| "anon" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:i4CdnZIwdpUxYI3eRVn-3w@pghconnect.com...
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125173478.915890.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> but what is the problem here? if money changes hands intentions become
> impure?
>
> eventually yoga cannot be taught, much less taught for money. the student
> has to find the way, and all the teacher can do is to encourage him that
the
> goal is reachable. you are talking of saints. how many such saints are
> around today? and even if they are, they need money to survive. charlatans
> of course are after your money. even the buddha begged in order to stay
> alive. how is that in principle different from asking for money and then
> buying food with the money?
>
> today, time is money, because, you need to pay money someone to have the
> privilege of existing (or sleeping) "on private land" during that time.
this
> is called rent. so, accept money as an unavoidable factor in most of our
> social situations.
>
>
Howdy!
If my memory of Christian history is correct, St. Paul made his money by
practicing his profession as a tent-maker! He was not above accepting a
donation for his ministry, but he separated his work from his "mission
work."
--
Namaste
Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"
http://www.howdydave.com
| |
|
|
omjaroo wrote:
> Thanks for the high marks in rhetorical discourse :-) Although I am not
> certain that is a good thing :-( My thesaurus describes rhetorical
> as:
>
> 1. relating to the skill of using language effectively and persuasively
>
> 2. relating to or using language that is elaborate or fine-sounding but
> insincere
>
> Which did you mean? Or did you perhaps mean theoretical or
> hypothetical, as in a "perfect world".
>
> Be that as it may, I still don't understand why this position you are
> taking is meaningful to you or why it should be meaningful to me.
Omjaroo,
My dear friend, this is what I am after, to hear,to learn others ideas
and thoughts on a subject matter . To see if others have different
ideas or the same!Following are yours:
"As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
So the exchange of money"
If we can not buy or sell what is already ours,then trying to do it or
pretending to do it means all FALSE...Only sharlatans try to do it!
I am very pleased to see tthat we have the same thoughts.
Thanks a lot for you always try to understand the main point.
With compassion,
Puma
>
> As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
> endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
> is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
>
> The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
> So the exchange of money, goods or services in the attempt to gain what
> is already ours is a "moot" point. The only meaning I can imagine is
> for the individual who teaches yoga or the individual who learns yoga
> to inquire (jnana) as to the purpose/motivation of their endeavor. Does
> their "desire" to teach or learn bring them closer to the Truth or does
> is take them farther away. We must all eventually ask and understand
> why we are trying to learn yoga when we are already, Yoga The
> yamas/niyamas are devices intended to lead others to the Truth; they do
> not define the Truth. Because the Truth is, even the yamas/niyamas are
> lies/fictions. There is only Yoga now, there always has been and there
> always will be. Any perception/believe/idea to the contrary is a
> lie/fabrication and is the function of maya.
>
> So can you please explain more clearly why this is so important to you.
>
> Jared
| |
|
| Anon,
Dear friend, if "eventually yoga can not be taught,much less taught for
money" Then these people, I mean these yoga instructors are not saying
the truth. This is what I am trying to explain...
Profession and Mission are two different acts. One may be to survive
and other to help.There is no SAINTS ,but only YOU.We are all sleeping
SAINTS. To beg to survive is not right. Even if he is BUDDHA. There are
many actions that BUDDHA was wrong...
So if there is any SAINT in this world it is YOU , my dear friend...You
are the one,to see,to evaluate, to live...
This is what I am trying to explain in a way...
thanks for your kind participation.
With compassion,
Puma
| |
|
|
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125237495.455178.208930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Profession and Mission are two different acts. One may be to survive
> and other to help.There is no SAINTS ,but only YOU.We are all sleeping
> SAINTS. To beg to survive is not right. Even if he is BUDDHA. There are
> many actions that BUDDHA was wrong...
>
there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
particular course of action out of the various choices.
buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was accepted
for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and you'll
see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to start
working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
culturally accepted.
> So if there is any SAINT in this world it is YOU , my dear friend...You
as you said there are sleeping saints and awakened saints. there is a
difference right there.
an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
| |
|
|
"Dave ©¿©¬" <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> wrote in message
news:raaQe.1053$Xo3.682@news01.roc.ny...
>
> If my memory of Christian history is correct, St. Paul made his money by
> practicing his profession as a tent-maker! He was not above accepting a
> donation for his ministry, but he separated his work from his "mission
> work."
>
part of the reason is that in those days life was easy to live. competition
for resources was less and people had more spare time to for
extra-professional work. usually they would just sow the fields and wait for
the harvest.
today it is work all year round. after work, people are quite tired and
anyway have little time after the commute, office, etc.
this is the reality of modern life. if today you have to pay for everything,
i fail to understand why the reluctance to pay for spiritual guidance? and
if the teacher has to make a living elsewhere, that is just leaving him less
energy and time to help those in need.
this is called "division of labour" in economics. one does for a living what
one is good at. this is the major reason for the increase in standard of
living in modern society.
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| anon wrote:
> there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
> action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
> personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
> particular course of action out of the various choices. ..
Well, the real root (for lack of a better word) is the Tao.
>
> an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
> of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
> the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
> thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
>
>
Ever met a Saint?
77
The way of heaven is like the bending
of a bow.
What is high up gets pulled down.
What is low down gets pulled up.
Heaven takes from that has too much and
gives to what doesn't have enough.
Man is different:
he takes from those who have too little
and gives to those who have too much.
Who has a genuine abundance to give to the world?
Only a person of Tao.
He acts without expectation,
accomplishes without taking credit,
and has no desire to display his merit.
--------
The Tao Te Ching, Lao Tzu
Translated by Brian Browne Walker
| |
|
|
"Wade Humeniuk" <whumeniu+anti+spam@telus.net> wrote in message
news:4WnQe.216429$tt5.23455@edtnps90...
>
> Who has a genuine abundance to give to the world?
> Only a person of Tao.
>
even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
world is because that is the way it should be.
as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
| |
|
| Anon,
My dear friend, following are your words:
"there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand.
every
action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
particular course of action out of the various choices.
buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was
accepted
for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and
you'll
see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to
start
working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
culturally accepted."
If there is no right and wrong why were the all efforts of these saints
or gurus or teachers or Buddha or Christ or others they all tried to
teach and tried to show? I know for sure CAUSE and RESULT are connected
each other in a very tightly.If any action is CORRECT ,it is correct
for ever.If its correctness is changeble,that is if its correctness is
not constant then we are wasting time for looking TRUTH.
Buddhist Monks even today are begging in many places of the
world...Buddha said no attachment, then all the Buddhist are attached
to REBIRTH still today.
Without attaching Sangha,Dharma and Buddha no one can be a BUDDHIST!
I can count hundreds of contradictions although I love Sidarta Gotama
very much.
Time changing because there is a movement. But this does not help to
hide our mistakes behind conditions or living etc.
In Buddhas` time there were people living in very good places and
people were there on streets... Still same thing continue in India or
any other places on this earth.
There are things that can not be sold...and yoga for Sri PATANJALI and
for me and for some other people is from these sort of actions...please
think of a father or a mother showing the right way of living to
his/her children,do these people charge them for this action?
May be I am a stupid person so that can not see the TRUTH...Because
only smart ones might see it,and get the benefit out of almost
everything...
With compassion,
Puma
anon wrote:
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125237495.455178.208930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
> action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
> personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
> particular course of action out of the various choices.
> buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was accepted
> for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and you'll
> see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to start
> working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
> culturally accepted.
>
>
> as you said there are sleeping saints and awakened saints. there is a
> difference right there.
>
> an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
> of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
> the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
> thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| anon wrote:
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
>
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
>
> as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
>
Come come ...
Say one kind and good thing.
Wade
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
|
anon wrote:
> "Wade Humeniuk" <whumeniu+anti+spam@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:4WnQe.216429$tt5.23455@edtnps90...
>
>
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
>
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
>
> as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
To paraphrase one great sage, "Your world is your idea."
| |
|
|
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125264369.648243.56680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> If there is no right and wrong why were the all efforts of these saints
> or gurus or teachers or Buddha or Christ or others they all tried to
> teach and tried to show? I know for sure CAUSE and RESULT are connected
compassion for those suffering in the fires of sansara.
> each other in a very tightly.If any action is CORRECT ,it is correct
> for ever.If its correctness is changeble,that is if its correctness is
> not constant then we are wasting time for looking TRUTH.
>
there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering. some
actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
this is causality. not right and wrong.
right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a society.
for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
cannabalise missionaries.
> Buddhist Monks even today are begging in many places of the
> world...Buddha said no attachment, then all the Buddhist are attached
> to REBIRTH still today.
> Without attaching Sangha,Dharma and Buddha no one can be a BUDDHIST!
>
you can be a buddhist and not be attached to buddhism. it is all in the
degree of awareness.
>
> There are things that can not be sold...and yoga for Sri PATANJALI and
> for me and for some other people is from these sort of actions...please
yoga cannot be sold. however teaching of yoga requires time, and time of a
person is essentially being sold. when you work for someone, you are selling
your time for money. of course the masters will usually teach without
compensation, but that is their graciousness.
so, time spent teaching yoga, can be sold. because time is money.
> think of a father or a mother showing the right way of living to
> his/her children,do these people charge them for this action?
>
in many cultures, one of the reasons for having children is so that they
will support the parents in old age. this is also a kind of transaction. one
of the reasons of decline of population in the west is that people do not
have to rely on children in old age, and one of the reasons for having
children is not there anymore.
> May be I am a stupid person so that can not see the TRUTH...Because
> only smart ones might see it,and get the benefit out of almost
> everything...
>
there are many ways to look at a thing, and i am presenting the way i find
reasonable, according to my conditioning and experiences.
| |
|
|
>
> Come come ...
>
> Say one kind and good thing.
>
"my bad". i got carried away in the problems of sansara. we are here to
help.
| |
| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| >> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these app=
ear
=E2=80=A8>> world is because that is the way it should be.[vbcol=seagreen]
s =E2=80=A8>> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>"my bad". i got carried away in the problems of sansara. we are here to
>help. =E2=80=A8
Anon,
Well if that's you when you're bad, I can't wait to see you when you're
good :-)
Not only did I think your comments were "right on the money" but
personally I thought what you said was exceptionally good and very
kind.
If I had a booger hanging from my nose I would appreciate you telling
me, even if painful and embarrassing for the both of us. This I would
consider truly kind. I would respect you for having the courage and the
compassion to suffer that awkward moment with me. For all those who
thought they were being kind by not saying anything and allowing me to
look a fool, I would grieve for them, their lack of courage.
Sometimes compassion dictates that we "hurt" someone else (and
therefore ourselves) in discharging our duty. Have you ever lanced a
boil for someone or informed them their lover was cheating on them? IME
(in my experience) compassion requires courage and stomach and is not
for the weak.
BTW I do believe it is spelled samsara (with an m ;-)
=20
Jared
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| anon wrote:
>
>
> "my bad". i got carried away in the problems of sansara. we are here to
> help.
>
>
I am not the type of person that says "Don't make me hit you!".
You hear this all the time, as if the person is compelled by
another person's behaviour to harm them (and justify it based
on some good). The person hitting is responsible for their own
actions.
Going back top the original Tao passage
Heaven takes from what has too much and
gives to what doesn't have enough.
Man is different:
he takes from those who have too little
and gives to those who have too much.
In the context of your reply
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
Here is giving (praise) to those who have too much (the saint (and who do not
want it by the way)) and taking from those who have too little (those the
saint cannot give too)
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
This is like the crappy parent's "Don't make me hit you" and "You got what you
deserved, you little ****". There is nothing like the self-flagellation
of this mindset to create suffering in the world. The evil is in a parent
instilling in a child's mind that they are worthless and undeserving. (and
deserve to be hit)
I guess I will post this story again ...
http://www3.telus.net/public/whumeniu/kung_fu.txt
Wade
| |
|
| My dear Anon,
I appreciate your reasoning.Meantime I notice your following words;
"there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering.
some
actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
this is causality. not right and wrong. "
If right and wrong are absent,then HAPPINES and SUFFERING are also
absent.These only according to the sensual standards of a person...
Same logic helps my explanation too...
If we want, we can create all the situations...But we can not create
REALITY...
Reality is like the sun. Everybody even blind people are aware of the
sun. REALITY is like the sun!
With compassion,
Puma
right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a
society.
for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
cannabalise missionaries.
anon wrote:
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125264369.648243.56680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> compassion for those suffering in the fires of sansara.
>
>
> there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering. some
> actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
>
> this is causality. not right and wrong.
>
> right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a society.
> for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
> cannabalise missionaries.
>
>
> you can be a buddhist and not be attached to buddhism. it is all in the
> degree of awareness.
>
>
> yoga cannot be sold. however teaching of yoga requires time, and time of a
> person is essentially being sold. when you work for someone, you are selling
> your time for money. of course the masters will usually teach without
> compensation, but that is their graciousness.
>
> so, time spent teaching yoga, can be sold. because time is money.
>
>
> in many cultures, one of the reasons for having children is so that they
> will support the parents in old age. this is also a kind of transaction. one
> of the reasons of decline of population in the west is that people do not
> have to rely on children in old age, and one of the reasons for having
> children is not there anymore.
>
>
> there are many ways to look at a thing, and i am presenting the way i find
> reasonable, according to my conditioning and experiences.
| |
|
|
"omjaroo" <omjaroo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125536998.333070.311660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>BTW I do believe it is spelled samsara (with an m ;-)
Jared,
thanks for the kind words.
i am a native hindi speaker and i can assure you the correct word is
pronounced as with an "n". for some reason when the sanskrit words were
transcribed to english things were not done the obvious way. so yes, today
in roman letters the "m" would make more sense as that has become the norm.
| |
| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:16 pm |
| Your welcome and thank-you for the thoroughly gracious and utterly
appropriate admonition :-)
Jared
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-09-24, 2:17 pm |
|
omjaroo wrote:
=80=A8teach yoga?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> A lot, is what Rama Krishna charged Vivekananda to teach him. A sum
> perhaps greater then any of us would ever be willing to pay.
>
>
> Rama Krishna, the seller, no doubt would have had minimum requirements
> for providing his service. In this case I believe it was a lifetime
> commitment and the surrender of all wealth and possessions for life as
> well.
>
>
> Vivekananda, the buyer did in fact commit himself to release and/or
> cause to be donated every penny he would earn for the remained of his
> life. Considering his extensive writing and speaking it would be easy
> to estimate this to be worth millions.
>
>
> Teaching and providing information has long been recognized as service
> and/or commodity.
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe the relative legality of an item, bought, sold or
> traded either enables or bars it from being bought, sold or traded. As
> long as you have a buyer and a seller you have a =E2=80=9Cdeal=E2=80=9D.
>
> Puma, money is a symbol. It represents effort or forbearance. Otherwise
> it has no meaning, it is simply pretty paper and/or coin. While some of
> it theoretically could be used in the bathroom, the other is pretty
> useless except perhaps for jewelry or to teach kids counting :-)
>
> Whether one teaches yoga for trade or cash is not the issue. The issue
> is the individuals motivation for teaching or learning yoga. Why are
> you insisting otherwise?
>
> Jared
Seems to me that Ramakrishna did not charge any one to teach them.
He did not have a clerk at his door collecting admission,
50 rupees for general admission, 100 rupees for front row seats.
He did not offer weekend specials , two for the price of one.
He did not up his prices because he wanted to take a winter cruise down
the Ganges or re-carpet the foyer.
That said, he did receive benefit from those he taught.
Those he taught were inspired to give for his upkeep, inspired by dint
of Ramakrishna=E2=80=99s spiritual presence, abilities, by the personal
benefit they received from his spiritual teachings.
Some, such as Vivekananda, were inspired to dedicate their lives to the
mission; however such was not a requirement of receiving
Ramakrishna=E2=80=99s teachings.
Teaching for the benefit of the students and having students inspired
to give freely for the benefit they recieve is very different from
selling one's time and charging so much $ per head to come through the
door, or so much for this bit of philosophy, so much for that asana
series, so much for this meditation technique and more for the next.
http://www.kathamrita.org/KathamritaMain.htm
| |
|
|
omjaroo wrote:
=80=A8teach yoga?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> A lot, is what Rama Krishna charged Vivekananda to teach him. A sum
> perhaps greater then any of us would ever be willing to pay.
>
>
> Rama Krishna, the seller, no doubt would have had minimum requirements
> for providing his service. In this case I believe it was a lifetime
> commitment and the surrender of all wealth and possessions for life as
> well.
>
>
> Vivekananda, the buyer did in fact commit himself to release and/or
> cause to be donated every penny he would earn for the remained of his
> life. Considering his extensive writing and speaking it would be easy
> to estimate this to be worth millions.
>
>
> Teaching and providing information has long been recognized as service
> and/or commodity.
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe the relative legality of an item, bought, sold or
> traded either enables or bars it from being bought, sold or traded. As
> long as you have a buyer and a seller you have a =E2=80=9Cdeal=E2=80=9D.
>
> Puma, money is a symbol. It represents effort or forbearance. Otherwise
> it has no meaning, it is simply pretty paper and/or coin. While some of
> it theoretically could be used in the bathroom, the other is pretty
> useless except perhaps for jewelry or to teach kids counting :-)
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
> Whether one teaches yoga for trade or cash is not the issue. The issue
> is the individuals motivation for teaching or learning yoga. Why are
> you insisting otherwise?
>
> Jared
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Hi Jared,
What you have written is really perfect from only retorical point of
view. This assay would gain 100 points ++ over 100 points.
If real issue is really focused on the individuals motivation for
teaching or learning yoga, A P A R I G R A H A should be taken into
account,as all the others have to be taken too. YOGA is the name of a
complete act.An UNION with your terms.
No one has a right to seperate this WHOLENESS.
I am not the one insisting nonsense, I am the one repeating the rules
of YOGA...
Seems to me some body is insisting to take some rules out of yoga and
completely different material are being packed up and presented as yoga
now days...Why don`t you try to see the real innsistant people?
With compassion,
Puma
| |
|
| Dear Anon,
Time might be different but same necessities continue! Today no one has
a right to hide himself/herself behind the MAKE LIVING .
Today may be more choices can be counted for living
matter...Vivekananda even did not want some knowledge to learn although
it was presented to him by Ramakrishna. Here the only point to notice
is. Vivekananda was a real student of yoga and Ramakrishna was also a
real teacher of yoga. They did performed their instruction withing the
limits of YOGA SUTRAS of Sri Patanjali.
Now again there are people who teach yoga on a free basis. And these
people getting their living from some other occupations!
Yoga is not a profession, or an occupation... Yoga is the name of
WHOLENESS. First lesson should be this.If this is not known we can try
to hide our poor wishes behind the curtains that we invent!
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| omjaroo 2005-09-24, 2:22 pm |
| Thanks for the high marks in rhetorical discourse :-) Although I am not
certain that is a good thing :-( My thesaurus describes rhetorical
as:
1. relating to the skill of using language effectively and persuasively
2. relating to or using language that is elaborate or fine-sounding but
insincere
Which did you mean? Or did you perhaps mean theoretical or
hypothetical, as in a "perfect world".
Be that as it may, I still don't understand why this position you are
taking is meaningful to you or why it should be meaningful to me.
As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
So the exchange of money, goods or services in the attempt to gain what
is already ours is a "moot" point. The only meaning I can imagine is
for the individual who teaches yoga or the individual who learns yoga
to inquire (jnana) as to the purpose/motivation of their endeavor. Does
their "desire" to teach or learn bring them closer to the Truth or does
is take them farther away. We must all eventually ask and understand
why we are trying to learn yoga when we are already, Yoga The
yamas/niyamas are devices intended to lead others to the Truth; they do
not define the Truth. Because the Truth is, even the yamas/niyamas are
lies/fictions. There is only Yoga now, there always has been and there
always will be. Any perception/believe/idea to the contrary is a
lie/fabrication and is the function of maya.
So can you please explain more clearly why this is so important to you.
Jared
| |
|
|
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125173478.915890.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Dear Anon,
>
> Time might be different but same necessities continue! Today no one has
> a right to hide himself/herself behind the MAKE LIVING .
> Today may be more choices can be counted for living
> matter...Vivekananda even did not want some knowledge to learn although
> it was presented to him by Ramakrishna. Here the only point to notice
> is. Vivekananda was a real student of yoga and Ramakrishna was also a
> real teacher of yoga. They did performed their instruction withing the
> limits of YOGA SUTRAS of Sri Patanjali.
>
but what is the problem here? if money changes hands intentions become
impure?
eventually yoga cannot be taught, much less taught for money. the student
has to find the way, and all the teacher can do is to encourage him that the
goal is reachable. you are talking of saints. how many such saints are
around today? and even if they are, they need money to survive. charlatans
of course are after your money. even the buddha begged in order to stay
alive. how is that in principle different from asking for money and then
buying food with the money?
today, time is money, because, you need to pay money someone to have the
privilege of existing (or sleeping) "on private land" during that time. this
is called rent. so, accept money as an unavoidable factor in most of our
social situations.
| |
| Dave ©¿©¬ 2005-09-24, 2:22 pm |
| "anon" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:i4CdnZIwdpUxYI3eRVn-3w@pghconnect.com...
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125173478.915890.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> but what is the problem here? if money changes hands intentions become
> impure?
>
> eventually yoga cannot be taught, much less taught for money. the student
> has to find the way, and all the teacher can do is to encourage him that
the
> goal is reachable. you are talking of saints. how many such saints are
> around today? and even if they are, they need money to survive. charlatans
> of course are after your money. even the buddha begged in order to stay
> alive. how is that in principle different from asking for money and then
> buying food with the money?
>
> today, time is money, because, you need to pay money someone to have the
> privilege of existing (or sleeping) "on private land" during that time.
this
> is called rent. so, accept money as an unavoidable factor in most of our
> social situations.
>
>
Howdy!
If my memory of Christian history is correct, St. Paul made his money by
practicing his profession as a tent-maker! He was not above accepting a
donation for his ministry, but he separated his work from his "mission
work."
--
Namaste
Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"
http://www.howdydave.com
| |
|
|
omjaroo wrote:
> Thanks for the high marks in rhetorical discourse :-) Although I am not
> certain that is a good thing :-( My thesaurus describes rhetorical
> as:
>
> 1. relating to the skill of using language effectively and persuasively
>
> 2. relating to or using language that is elaborate or fine-sounding but
> insincere
>
> Which did you mean? Or did you perhaps mean theoretical or
> hypothetical, as in a "perfect world".
>
> Be that as it may, I still don't understand why this position you are
> taking is meaningful to you or why it should be meaningful to me.
Omjaroo,
My dear friend, this is what I am after, to hear,to learn others ideas
and thoughts on a subject matter . To see if others have different
ideas or the same!Following are yours:
"As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
So the exchange of money"
If we can not buy or sell what is already ours,then trying to do it or
pretending to do it means all FALSE...Only sharlatans try to do it!
I am very pleased to see tthat we have the same thoughts.
Thanks a lot for you always try to understand the main point.
With compassion,
Puma
>
> As far as I know, you cannot possess what is already yours. Hence we
> endeavor to learn to live in aparigraha, or non-possessiveness. Which
> is how we would "naturally" live if we were aware of the Truth.
>
> The fact is, you cannot buy or sell what is already yours, e.g. yoga.
> So the exchange of money, goods or services in the attempt to gain what
> is already ours is a "moot" point. The only meaning I can imagine is
> for the individual who teaches yoga or the individual who learns yoga
> to inquire (jnana) as to the purpose/motivation of their endeavor. Does
> their "desire" to teach or learn bring them closer to the Truth or does
> is take them farther away. We must all eventually ask and understand
> why we are trying to learn yoga when we are already, Yoga The
> yamas/niyamas are devices intended to lead others to the Truth; they do
> not define the Truth. Because the Truth is, even the yamas/niyamas are
> lies/fictions. There is only Yoga now, there always has been and there
> always will be. Any perception/believe/idea to the contrary is a
> lie/fabrication and is the function of maya.
>
> So can you please explain more clearly why this is so important to you.
>
> Jared
| |
|
| Anon,
Dear friend, if "eventually yoga can not be taught,much less taught for
money" Then these people, I mean these yoga instructors are not saying
the truth. This is what I am trying to explain...
Profession and Mission are two different acts. One may be to survive
and other to help.There is no SAINTS ,but only YOU.We are all sleeping
SAINTS. To beg to survive is not right. Even if he is BUDDHA. There are
many actions that BUDDHA was wrong...
So if there is any SAINT in this world it is YOU , my dear friend...You
are the one,to see,to evaluate, to live...
This is what I am trying to explain in a way...
thanks for your kind participation.
With compassion,
Puma
| |
|
|
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125237495.455178.208930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Profession and Mission are two different acts. One may be to survive
> and other to help.There is no SAINTS ,but only YOU.We are all sleeping
> SAINTS. To beg to survive is not right. Even if he is BUDDHA. There are
> many actions that BUDDHA was wrong...
>
there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
particular course of action out of the various choices.
buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was accepted
for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and you'll
see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to start
working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
culturally accepted.
> So if there is any SAINT in this world it is YOU , my dear friend...You
as you said there are sleeping saints and awakened saints. there is a
difference right there.
an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
| |
|
|
"Dave ©¿©¬" <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> wrote in message
news:raaQe.1053$Xo3.682@news01.roc.ny...
>
> If my memory of Christian history is correct, St. Paul made his money by
> practicing his profession as a tent-maker! He was not above accepting a
> donation for his ministry, but he separated his work from his "mission
> work."
>
part of the reason is that in those days life was easy to live. competition
for resources was less and people had more spare time to for
extra-professional work. usually they would just sow the fields and wait for
the harvest.
today it is work all year round. after work, people are quite tired and
anyway have little time after the commute, office, etc.
this is the reality of modern life. if today you have to pay for everything,
i fail to understand why the reluctance to pay for spiritual guidance? and
if the teacher has to make a living elsewhere, that is just leaving him less
energy and time to help those in need.
this is called "division of labour" in economics. one does for a living what
one is good at. this is the major reason for the increase in standard of
living in modern society.
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:22 pm |
| anon wrote:
> there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
> action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
> personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
> particular course of action out of the various choices. ..
Well, the real root (for lack of a better word) is the Tao.
>
> an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
> of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
> the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
> thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
>
>
Ever met a Saint?
77
The way of heaven is like the bending
of a bow.
What is high up gets pulled down.
What is low down gets pulled up.
Heaven takes from that has too much and
gives to what doesn't have enough.
Man is different:
he takes from those who have too little
and gives to those who have too much.
Who has a genuine abundance to give to the world?
Only a person of Tao.
He acts without expectation,
accomplishes without taking credit,
and has no desire to display his merit.
--------
The Tao Te Ching, Lao Tzu
Translated by Brian Browne Walker
| |
|
|
"Wade Humeniuk" <whumeniu+anti+spam@telus.net> wrote in message
news:4WnQe.216429$tt5.23455@edtnps90...
>
> Who has a genuine abundance to give to the world?
> Only a person of Tao.
>
even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
world is because that is the way it should be.
as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
| |
|
| Anon,
My dear friend, following are your words:
"there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand.
every
action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
particular course of action out of the various choices.
buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was
accepted
for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and
you'll
see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to
start
working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
culturally accepted."
If there is no right and wrong why were the all efforts of these saints
or gurus or teachers or Buddha or Christ or others they all tried to
teach and tried to show? I know for sure CAUSE and RESULT are connected
each other in a very tightly.If any action is CORRECT ,it is correct
for ever.If its correctness is changeble,that is if its correctness is
not constant then we are wasting time for looking TRUTH.
Buddhist Monks even today are begging in many places of the
world...Buddha said no attachment, then all the Buddhist are attached
to REBIRTH still today.
Without attaching Sangha,Dharma and Buddha no one can be a BUDDHIST!
I can count hundreds of contradictions although I love Sidarta Gotama
very much.
Time changing because there is a movement. But this does not help to
hide our mistakes behind conditions or living etc.
In Buddhas` time there were people living in very good places and
people were there on streets... Still same thing continue in India or
any other places on this earth.
There are things that can not be sold...and yoga for Sri PATANJALI and
for me and for some other people is from these sort of actions...please
think of a father or a mother showing the right way of living to
his/her children,do these people charge them for this action?
May be I am a stupid person so that can not see the TRUTH...Because
only smart ones might see it,and get the benefit out of almost
everything...
With compassion,
Puma
anon wrote:
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1125237495.455178.208930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> there is no right and wrong, which is what you need to understand. every
> action has a its root the causes, conditions and circumstances, and the
> personality (memory) and discrimination of the subject who decided a
> particular course of action out of the various choices.
> buddha did what seemed correct at the time; in india begging was accepted
> for yogis and it was an honour to give to them. try that today, and you'll
> see the result. when the buddhist monks went to china, they had to start
> working and growing food because in china giving alms to monks was not
> culturally accepted.
>
>
> as you said there are sleeping saints and awakened saints. there is a
> difference right there.
>
> an individual cannot pretend that the socioeconomic conditions and customs
> of his time are illusory; because those are the conditions of the humans at
> the time. to neglect them, or to expect teachers to live as they did
> thousands of years ago is unreasonable. even if he is an awakened saint.
| |
| Wade Humeniuk 2005-09-24, 2:22 pm |
| anon wrote:
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
>
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
>
> as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
>
Come come ...
Say one kind and good thing.
Wade
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-09-24, 2:22 pm |
|
anon wrote:
> "Wade Humeniuk" <whumeniu+anti+spam@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:4WnQe.216429$tt5.23455@edtnps90...
>
>
> even a saint cannot give generosity and compassion to another. these appear
> as a result of the individual's evolution and understanding.
>
> the lack of comfort, and excessive competition and suffering in today's
> world is because that is the way it should be.
>
> as a society, we deserve what we are getting, because at the root of this
> society is greed, fear, insecurity, etc.
To paraphrase one great sage, "Your world is your idea."
| |
|
|
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125264369.648243.56680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> If there is no right and wrong why were the all efforts of these saints
> or gurus or teachers or Buddha or Christ or others they all tried to
> teach and tried to show? I know for sure CAUSE and RESULT are connected
compassion for those suffering in the fires of sansara.
> each other in a very tightly.If any action is CORRECT ,it is correct
> for ever.If its correctness is changeble,that is if its correctness is
> not constant then we are wasting time for looking TRUTH.
>
there is happiness. there is suffering. there is cause of suffering. some
actions lead to happiness. some to suffering.
this is causality. not right and wrong.
right and wrong are obviously according to the moral standards of a society.
for some people it was a delicacy, for others it was a sacrilege to
cannabalise missionaries.
> Buddhist Monks even today are begging in many places of the
> world...Buddha said no attachment, then all the Buddhist are attached
> to REBIRTH still today.
> Without attaching Sangha,Dharma and Buddha no one can be a BUDDHIST!
>
you can be a buddhist and not be attached to buddhism. it is all in the
degree of awareness.
>
> There are things that can not be sold...and yoga for Sri PATANJALI and
> for me and for some other people is from these sort of actions...please
yoga cannot be sold. however teaching of yoga requires time, and time of a
person is essentially being sold. when you work for someone, you are selling
your time for money. of course the masters will usually teach without
compensation, but that is their graciousness.
so, time spent teaching yoga, can be sold. because time is money.
> think of a father or a mother showing the right way of living to
> his/her children,do these people charge them for this action?
>
in many cultures, one of the reasons for having children is so that they
will support the parents in old age. this is also a kind | | |