Yoga - WHICH SIDE ARE YOU?

Author

WHICH SIDE ARE YOU?

puma

2005-08-23, 5:55 pm

I just wanted to get the opinions of the people here regarding SELLING,
CHARGING,COLLECTING MONEY for teaching UNION,or YOGA,or YAMA ,or NIYAMA
or these sort of acts...

Some of you have stated that they were at the SELLING or CHARGING
side,they said it very clearly.
But, very few said that they were at the FREE SIDE ,that is they are
against to sell this sort of COMMODITY...

But some of you were not clear and they pretend to use the rhetoric.And
they abstain to be clear on this COMMERCIAL matter.They said that IT
DEPENDS!!! That is they might sell it,if it requires...

Thanks for all of you. This gave me the insight of the words and
actions...And also insight of the YOGIS or YOGINIS,and the of
SUBSTANTIALITY of understanding of YOGA...

With compassion,

Puma

James O'Neill

2005-08-23, 10:59 pm

We're all in sales. Including you.

You're currently selling me the notion that
selling is wrong. Even though you're not charging
me for it...

...I know a yoga website that offers free yoga
content. It's totally free. However this yogi
person who runs it, he needs money to live.

So he gives away a hard copy of the information
on CD to people for an honest donation.

So if you want a copy of the CD that he offers
and ADVERTISES on his site, you have to PAY for
it. That's how he earns a living.

So in effect he teaches yoga for FREE but he
sells yoga information products.

I went to a hatha yoga class once. It was taught
by a swami woman. I was happy to pay to get in.
It wasn't very expensive. If she didn't charge
she wouldn't have been able to use the hall
that it was conducted in.

SELLING has many different connotations-
mainly negative. We all hate sales people.

We don't like being sold. We don't like being
manipulated. We don't like being harassed by
telephone sales people, with products that we're
not interested in.

Selling can be BAD, especially when the products
are bad- and a false need is created for the
products.

So we think its wrong to sell. The thought of
selling seems wrong.

But...

...There is a genuine need for quality products,
information and services in our world-
regardless of whether or not it is wrong or
right to teach yoga for free.

And that's just the point I was trying to
clarify. Selling makes the world go round, and
people need you, your information, products and
services to help them.

Personally? I don't teach yoga. I'm not
qualified.

So I'm not on either side of your seasaw

)

Do you teach yoga?

Kind Regards,

James O'Neill

"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1124834908.645462.135100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I just wanted to get the opinions of the people here regarding SELLING,
> CHARGING,COLLECTING MONEY for teaching UNION,or YOGA,or YAMA ,or NIYAMA
> or these sort of acts...
>
> Some of you have stated that they were at the SELLING or CHARGING
> side,they said it very clearly.
> But, very few said that they were at the FREE SIDE ,that is they are
> against to sell this sort of COMMODITY...
>
> But some of you were not clear and they pretend to use the rhetoric.And
> they abstain to be clear on this COMMERCIAL matter.They said that IT
> DEPENDS!!! That is they might sell it,if it requires...
>
> Thanks for all of you. This gave me the insight of the words and
> actions...And also insight of the YOGIS or YOGINIS,and the of
> SUBSTANTIALITY of understanding of YOGA...
>
> With compassion,
>
>
> Puma
>

lilashi

2005-08-24, 8:59 am

I send a writting but it didnt come out...Why ?

ohh may be I shall wait ?

James O'Neill yazdi:[vbcol=seagreen]
> We're all in sales. Including you.
>
> You're currently selling me the notion that
> selling is wrong. Even though you're not charging
> me for it...
>
> ...I know a yoga website that offers free yoga
> content. It's totally free. However this yogi
> person who runs it, he needs money to live.
>
> So he gives away a hard copy of the information
> on CD to people for an honest donation.
>
> So if you want a copy of the CD that he offers
> and ADVERTISES on his site, you have to PAY for
> it. That's how he earns a living.
>
> So in effect he teaches yoga for FREE but he
> sells yoga information products.
>
> I went to a hatha yoga class once. It was taught
> by a swami woman. I was happy to pay to get in.
> It wasn't very expensive. If she didn't charge
> she wouldn't have been able to use the hall
> that it was conducted in.
>
> SELLING has many different connotations-
> mainly negative. We all hate sales people.
>
> We don't like being sold. We don't like being
> manipulated. We don't like being harassed by
> telephone sales people, with products that we're
> not interested in.
>
> Selling can be BAD, especially when the products
> are bad- and a false need is created for the
> products.
>
> So we think its wrong to sell. The thought of
> selling seems wrong.
>
> But...
>
> ...There is a genuine need for quality products,
> information and services in our world-
> regardless of whether or not it is wrong or
> right to teach yoga for free.
>
> And that's just the point I was trying to
> clarify. Selling makes the world go round, and
> people need you, your information, products and
> services to help them.
>
> Personally? I don't teach yoga. I'm not
> qualified.
>
> So I'm not on either side of your seasaw

)
>
> Do you teach yoga?
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> James O'Neill
>
>
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1124834908.645462.135100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

lilashi

2005-08-24, 8:59 am

)
>
> Do you teach yoga?
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> James O'Neill
>
>
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1124834908.645462.135100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Here I also want to explain my own opinions about selling and
buying...
You can sell objects...Like flowers...like tables...like other things
but you can not SELL ANIMALS AND HUMAN BEINGS...Why? cause DID YOU ASK?
How is this

Selling is giving something to someone who needs and take something
back in return...But what you give has to be equal of what you ask as a
price...
Some economists will tell but there is REQUEST!!!
Ohh it is too easy to create REQUEST isnt it ?
For example people in SOMALI is hungry and why dont we go in create
a market there!!!
See sometimes what we create can be a END OF LIFE for others!!!
Like life insurance!!! OHH THERE ARE PLENTY OF THE WAYS TO CONVINCE
SOMEONE !!!
What you do is : make this person realize how his life is
precious....there are ways isnt it?
And our friend James O'Neill said ' You're currently selling me the
notion that selling is wrong. Even though you're not charging
me for it...'
Well we have to change the word SELLING in this sentence!!! giving me
an advice or advicing would be much better...Whenter you listen whenter
you do not...how you act is totaly up to you!!!
But this word is also good sometimes...Because it expresses your
thoughts from someelses mouth even if this person does not use
SEELING!!!Your SELLING mentality makes it real...
I think I know which side I m...I hate people who he she built her his
life on SELLING - BUYING
Cause this kind of way of THINKING kills HUMANITY!
Think about it...

lilashi

2005-08-24, 8:59 am

I wrote a long writting but unfortunately it didnt come out ?
Why?

Sevenhundred Elves

2005-08-25, 5:56 pm

puma wrote:

> I just wanted to get the opinions of the people here regarding SELLING,
> CHARGING,COLLECTING MONEY for teaching UNION,or YOGA,or YAMA ,or NIYAMA
> or these sort of acts...
>
> Some of you have stated that they were at the SELLING or CHARGING
> side,they said it very clearly.
> But, very few said that they were at the FREE SIDE ,that is they are
> against to sell this sort of COMMODITY...
>
> But some of you were not clear and they pretend to use the rhetoric.And
> they abstain to be clear on this COMMERCIAL matter.They said that IT
> DEPENDS!!! That is they might sell it,if it requires...
>
> Thanks for all of you. This gave me the insight of the words and
> actions...And also insight of the YOGIS or YOGINIS,and the of
> SUBSTANTIALITY of understanding of YOGA...
>
> With compassion,
>
>
> Puma
>

I'm not unclear. I have said that it is up to each individual. There is
no fixed law. It is flexibility and adaption that has made yoga survive
for so many thousands of years, not a dogmatic system of petty rules
that can't change as society changes. I believe it can't be decided by
me what other yogis do. I'm not the boss of yoga, and I don't want to
be. I don't think there should be one.

In order to correctly teach asanas, one must know more than just the
correct positions, motions, manner of breathing and mental focus. A yoga
teacher should also know something about anatomy and different kinds of
illness so he can help yoga students who aren't in top shape to avoid
injuries. The best would be if medical doctors were trained to be yoga
teachers, I think.

Until that happy day arrives, if ever, the best yoga teachers are those
with the most experience of teaching yoga. This experience is easy to
gather for those who can teach yoga full-time. How can they teach yoga
full-time without getting paid for it? In order to do anything
full-time, you must either get paid for it, or be independently wealthy
(which most of us aren't).

This is why I think it is OK for yoga teachers to get paid.

I think it's even better if someone who knows his yoga finds a way to
teach it for free.

There are arguments for both sides, so let's use both ways.

The bottom line is that it's the individual yoga teacher who must decide
if he will accept payment or not, according to his own understanding of
the principles of yoga. I refuse to be his conscience.

S.

Shava_X

2005-08-26, 11:52 am

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:08:28 -0700, puma wrote:

> I just wanted to get the opinions of the people here regarding SELLING,
> CHARGING,COLLECTING MONEY for teaching UNION,or YOGA,or YAMA ,or NIYAMA
> or these sort of acts...
>
> Some of you have stated that they were at the SELLING or CHARGING
> side,they said it very clearly.
> But, very few said that they were at the FREE SIDE ,that is they are
> against to sell this sort of COMMODITY...
>
> But some of you were not clear and they pretend to use the rhetoric.And
> they abstain to be clear on this COMMERCIAL matter.They said that IT
> DEPENDS!!! That is they might sell it,if it requires...
>
> Thanks for all of you. This gave me the insight of the words and
> actions...And also insight of the YOGIS or YOGINIS,and the of
> SUBSTANTIALITY of understanding of YOGA...
>
> With compassion,
>
>
> Puma

In my Opinion, information about Yoga and Hatha Yoga in-particular is just
that, information. i would liken it in many ways to software source code.
Information itself wants to be free. However, there is nothing wrong with
selling a service related to that information. Teachers sell instruction
on mathematics, language arts, art technique, etc... every day. i do not
see how teaching Hatha Yoga differs in any substantial way.

puma

2005-08-26, 5:55 pm

James O'Neill wrote:
> We're all in sales. Including you.
>
> You're currently selling me the notion that
> selling is wrong. Even though you're not charging
> me for it...
> ========================================================================

My dear James:

Are you serious or just kidding me? In order to sell a commodity or a
service several components require...

A) A seller ( Seller gets some sort of collection in return)

B) A buyer (Buyer should spend some sort of collection for this)

c) A service or commodity...

D) Service or commodity should be legal... That is by law its selling
is fine...

Now what am I selling here my dear?

I only say and REPEAT the RULES of SRI PATANJALI that is APARIGRAHA
does not let any yogi to get money to teach yoga...This is known by all
the real yogies...How much has paid Vivekananda to Rama Khrishna for
learning YOGA?

So please try to understand my point of view...

All I am saying is the words of SRI PATANJALI...there is no selling
anything. please first of all lets try to understand each other...

If I am not charging you that means it is free. If anything is free
then there is not any sale or selling or marketing at all.

I just asked and wanted to know at which side are you! Thats all...Do
not try to defend your actions or ideas...

You are trying to change the framing of my point...I do not charge
anybody to teach yoga...And whoever is charging that means he/she does
not do RIGHT from the point of SRI PATANJALI...Not by my side...

Hope it is very clear now!!!

With compassion,

Puma[vbcol=seagreen]
> ...I know a yoga website that offers free yoga
> content. It's totally free. However this yogi
> person who runs it, he needs money to live.
>
> So he gives away a hard copy of the information
> on CD to people for an honest donation.
>
> So if you want a copy of the CD that he offers
> and ADVERTISES on his site, you have to PAY for
> it. That's how he earns a living.
>
> So in effect he teaches yoga for FREE but he
> sells yoga information products.
>
> I went to a hatha yoga class once. It was taught
> by a swami woman. I was happy to pay to get in.
> It wasn't very expensive. If she didn't charge
> she wouldn't have been able to use the hall
> that it was conducted in.
>
> SELLING has many different connotations-
> mainly negative. We all hate sales people.
>
> We don't like being sold. We don't like being
> manipulated. We don't like being harassed by
> telephone sales people, with products that we're
> not interested in.
>
> Selling can be BAD, especially when the products
> are bad- and a false need is created for the
> products.
>
> So we think its wrong to sell. The thought of
> selling seems wrong.
>
> But...
>
> ...There is a genuine need for quality products,
> information and services in our world-
> regardless of whether or not it is wrong or
> right to teach yoga for free.
>
> And that's just the point I was trying to
> clarify. Selling makes the world go round, and
> people need you, your information, products and
> services to help them.
>
> Personally? I don't teach yoga. I'm not
> qualified.
>
> So I'm not on either side of your seasaw

)
>
> Do you teach yoga?
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> James O'Neill
>
>
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1124834908.645462.135100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

anon

2005-08-26, 5:55 pm

"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125077306.847819.133830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> I only say and REPEAT the RULES of SRI PATANJALI that is APARIGRAHA
> does not let any yogi to get money to teach yoga...This is known by all
> the real yogies...How much has paid Vivekananda to Rama Khrishna for
> learning YOGA?
>

this is a wrong translation and conclusion. that word means "non
covetousness".

James O'Neill

2005-08-26, 10:53 pm

> We're all in sales. Including you.
>
> You're currently selling me the notion that
> selling is wrong. Even though you're not
> charging me for it...

-------------------------------------------------

It's just a bit of a laugh. I wouldn't take
seriously.

I admit- I was being controversial. I wanted
to present my ideas in an interesting way.

I read the yoga sutrus tottally different from
how you read it- but that's great!

Everything you say is valid and valuable. Do
what ever is loving and works for you. If you have
any doubt- ask God.

If you need to find clarity- you're not going
to find it on here or by talking to me- you're
going to have to go to the big man.

There's a simple solution. If you think its
wrong then, "don't charge". It's that simple.

I don't understand what the problem is. Are
you debating whether or not to charge, yourself?
Who cares what someone else is doing or thinks?

I mean, I don't actually know the answer, and
to be honest- I don't actually care.

Without trying to sound like a bible basher-
here's an old saying from Jesus when HE used to go
round breaking rules. It went something like this,

"The guidelines are there for you, not you for
the guidelines."

People are different- sometimes wrong- but not
to worry.

Who cares what I say? Sometimes I actually enjoy
talking rubbish. It's fun.

I'm really sorry I don't understand your point of
view as well as I should

And without trying to sound like some kind of nutter,
here's a little quote prayer-affirmation by Paramahansa
Yogananda, from a book I'm reading at the moment-

If in doubt you can use it-

"Heavenly Father, I will reason, I will will, I will
act; but guide Thou my reason, will, and activity
to the right thing that I should do."

There you go- problem solved.

God-Bless

"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1125077306.847819.133830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> James O'Neill wrote:
>
> My dear James:
>
> Are you serious or just kidding me? In order to sell a commodity or a
> service several components require...
>
> A) A seller ( Seller gets some sort of collection in return)
>
> B) A buyer (Buyer should spend some sort of collection for this)
>
> c) A service or commodity...
>
> D) Service or commodity should be legal... That is by law its selling
> is fine...
>
> Now what am I selling here my dear?
>
> I only say and REPEAT the RULES of SRI PATANJALI that is APARIGRAHA
> does not let any yogi to get money to teach yoga...This is known by all
> the real yogies...How much has paid Vivekananda to Rama Khrishna for
> learning YOGA?
>
> So please try to understand my point of view...
>
> All I am saying is the words of SRI PATANJALI...there is no selling
> anything. please first of all lets try to understand each other...
>
> If I am not charging you that means it is free. If anything is free
> then there is not any sale or selling or marketing at all.
>
> I just asked and wanted to know at which side are you! Thats all...Do
> not try to defend your actions or ideas...
>
> You are trying to change the framing of my point...I do not charge
> anybody to teach yoga...And whoever is charging that means he/she does
> not do RIGHT from the point of SRI PATANJALI...Not by my side...
>
> Hope it is very clear now!!!
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
SELLING,[vbcol=seagreen]
NIYAMA[vbcol=seagreen]
rhetoric.And[vbcol=seagreen]
>

Sevenhundred Elves

2005-09-24, 2:09 pm

I don't think I have mentioned that I am grateful to both Puma and Paul
H for the interesting topics they suggest, the controversial questions
asked, and the examining of the extremes of opinion. I am grateful.
Thanks.

S.

Sevenhundred Elves

2005-09-24, 2:16 pm

Sevenhundred Elves

2005-09-24, 2:22 pm

Sevenhundred Elves

2005-09-24, 2:24 pm