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TM vs. yogic or trad meditation
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| Joey Goldstein 2005-07-25, 12:19 am |
|
Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization.
When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
zone.
But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
seemed wacko.
I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
techniques but I have done a bit.
Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
| |
| Mr. Random 2005-07-25, 12:19 am |
| Joey Goldstein wrote:
> Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization.
> When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
> extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
> zone.
>
> But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
> saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
> seemed wacko.
>
> I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
> techniques but I have done a bit.
>
> Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
> could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
>
Hey there Joey 
TM, eh? Hmmmm ... be careful is all I can say. From what I've read, it's
considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras and can affect
the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels ( think that's what it is
called ). They also believe they can 'fly' in the higher levels.
I'm no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to learn it
about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for the first
level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ). This is merely *my* opinion and not
fact. Have a look through Google with:
http://tinyurl.com/dgetk
and you'll see what I mean; highlights being:
http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <--- *Important!*
http://www.trancenet.org/
http://www.suggestibility.org/
You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any
possible dangers I'd hate to think that my inaction helped someone to
become hurt ...
Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM.
Smile for no reason!
Shane-o =]
| |
|
| On 2005-07-24 18:54:41 -0700, Joey Goldstein <nospam@nowhere.net> said:
>
> Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM
> organization.
> When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
> extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
> zone.
> But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
> saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
> seemed wacko.
>
> I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
> techniques but I have done a bit.
>
TM is very traditional meditation.
> Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
> could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
>
I have been practicing TM for about 30 years. Its been a very good
run. The organization is nutty, but the basic technique is good. It
truly comes from a traditional Indian system. The way it is taught is
highly monitored to make sure the subtle practice is passed on
correctly. You may want to contact someone in your area and get
"checked". It is free, and will get you on back on your practice.
There is an 800 number at TM.org
As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get. It is
meditation as taught in the Sankara tradition. A system that has been
passed on from master to student for several millennia. It is a mantra
form of meditation. There are other forms of meditation. Most of them
have Buddhist roots. There is a very good web site that will give you
a taste of other techniques, http://www.wildmind.org/ It is run by a
Buddhist monk. He is a little down on TM.
Another teacher of the Sankara tradition is Swami Muktananda. He has a
cult (used in the good way) in the US. One of his followers is Sally
Kempton. She has a terrific book on meditation called "The Heart of
Meditation". She travels around and gives workshops. I went to one -
it was excellent. http://www.sallykempton.com Although she has no
direct relation with the TM org, she has no problem with it. We got
along very well at the workshop.
Be careful about the Web sites on TM. They are filled with a lot of
misinformation. Usually they are run be people with hidden agendas.
Some are fundamentalist Christians who think TM and yoga in general is
evil. Others are people who came into the organization looking for
something the organization didn't provide. They have an axe to grind.
The TM organization is very bizarre. Part of that is because Maharishi
runs the organization from the top down. He is not good at running
organizations. He is very good at teaching meditation and talking
about the mechanics of consciousness. He is one of the few Guru types
out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with
students.
I highly suggest you go for free "checking" you may find that is
enough to get you going again. The trick is to make the practice a
habit. You are very fortunate to have been initiated. Use it as a
base line to understand other techniques that are out there.
--
~Stu
| |
|
| On 2005-07-24 20:30:08 -0700, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> said:
> Joey Goldstein wrote:
> Hey there Joey
>
> TM, eh? Hmmmm ... be careful is all I can say. From what I've read,
> it's considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras
> and can affect the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels (
> think that's what it is called ). They also believe they can 'fly' in
> the higher levels.
>
> I'm no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to
> learn it about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for
> the first level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ). This is merely
> *my* opinion and not fact. Have a look through Google with:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dgetk
>
Why did you feel a need to hide your search as TM Cult Danger?
How about a search for "TM peaceful form of yoga". Or do a pubmed
search on TM. You will find thousands of research articles that have
proven TM to have fantastic health benefits.
http://www.freep.com/news/education/tm5_20030605.htm
http://www.rxtm.co.nz/cardiovascula...art_failure.htm
http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7433
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psych..._meditation.htm
Over
the last 40 years there have been many independent studies of the
effects of TM. I have not seen one that showed any danger.
Look carefully at who is putting up these anti-TM sites. Most are
Christian groups. More often then not they are disgruntled student who
did not get what they were looking for out of the organization.
and you'll see what I mean; highlights being:
>
> http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <--- *Important!*
> http://www.trancenet.org/
> http://www.suggestibility.org/
>
> You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case
> of any possible dangers I'd hate to think that my inaction helped
> someone to become hurt ...
>
> What dangers are those? I have known thousands of people who have
> practiced TM. I have never known anyone to be hurt by closing there
> eyes and thinking a mantra.
Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM.
>
> TM is yoga. It is a technique clearly described by Patanjali in the
> Yoga Sutras.
Smile for no reason!
> Shane-o =]
>
> Why do you want to spread this venom?
--
~Stu
| |
| Joey Goldstein 2005-07-26, 9:05 am |
| Thanks for writing Stu.
Stu wrote:
>
>
> As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get.
Hmm. Most of the yoga books I've read have meditations where you monitor
your breath or concentrate on the light from a candle or on some
particular thought with an actual meaning. The only other mantra
meditations I've read about seem to involve actually making the sound of
the mantra, vocally (eg. "OM"), which again is tied up with the breath.
TM appears to be unique in that the mantra is simply a thought, and a
meaningless thought at that, and does not need to be tied to any
rhythmic cycle in its repetitions.
I know there is a lot of baggage attached to the TM teacher's
assignation of the mantra.
As a TM practitioner ("follower"?) of many years, Stu, how do you feel
about this?
There was a guy (Eli Bay?) who was teaching a de-mystified version of TM
called The Relaxation Response and he simply replaced the Hindu mantras
with the word "one".
Do you think that this mantra can be as effective as the ones assigned
by the TM people?
If not, then why?
> The TM organization is very bizarre. Part of that is because Maharishi
> runs the organization from the top down. He is not good at running
> organizations. He is very good at teaching meditation and talking
> about the mechanics of consciousness. He is one of the few Guru types
> out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with
> students.
>
> I highly suggest you go for free "checking" you may find that is
> enough to get you going again. The trick is to make the practice a
> habit. You are very fortunate to have been initiated. Use it as a
> base line to understand other techniques that are out there.
> --
> ~Stu
I'd rather stay away from the "organization" at this point.
Practicing TM is not a high priority for me right now so I don't think
I'll be going in for any "checking" any time soon. The technique's not
really all that hard to remember anyway.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
| |
| Mr. Random 2005-07-26, 12:09 pm |
| Stu wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> On 2005-07-24 20:30:08 -0700, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> said:
>
> Why did you feel a need to hide your search as TM Cult Danger?
> How about a search for "TM peaceful form of yoga". Or do a pubmed
> search on TM. You will find thousands of research articles that have
> proven TM to have fantastic health benefits.
>
> http://www.freep.com/news/education/tm5_20030605.htm
> http://www.rxtm.co.nz/cardiovascula...art_failure.htm
>
> http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7433
> http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psych..._meditation.htm
>
>
> Over
> the last 40 years there have been many independent studies of the
> effects of TM. I have not seen one that showed any danger.
>
>
> Look carefully at who is putting up these anti-TM sites. Most are
> Christian groups. More often then not they are disgruntled student who
> did not get what they were looking for out of the organization.
>
>
> and you'll see what I mean; highlights being:
>
>
>
>
> Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Smile for no reason!
>
Greetings Stu
Seriously man, relax. Please don't take my opinion so seriously/personally.
I'm not attacking TM, although it may have come across that way <sigh>
I said at the start that I am no expert in relation to TM and have never
practised it. I also mentioned:
<Quote>
You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any
possible dangers I'd hate to think that my inaction helped someone to
become hurt ...
</Quote>
Notice that I did not say that TM is dangerous or that you will die from it,
just that there /may/ be possible dangers. The possible dangers are mentioned
on trancenet.org.
How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question. Do you do asanas in TM?
You said "Why spread this venom?" I already answered that in the above quote.
Plus, I did not consider it "venom", just another side to a story that may or
may not be true. You seem to consider it "venom" because you do not know any
person with any problems from it, so see the articles as illogical. I can
understand that
Look, I get the feeling from your post that you're not impressed with me right
now. My apologies if I am wrong, seriously. I'm not afraid to say sorry if
shown that I am wrong.
Also, thanks for the other links. I do know of the related health benefits of
TM. A lot of these benefits were mentioned when I went to the TM Centre here in
Australia.
Do you still hate me?
Smile for no reason
Shane-o =]
| |
| tracym@askme.net 2005-07-26, 12:09 pm |
| Absolutely it is a cult. Just get some books on traditional
meditation.
| |
|
|
| tracym@askme.net 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:47:11 GMT, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> wrote:
>tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
>
>G'day Tracy
>
> Could you please explain why you have come to that conclusion? I honestly want
>to know. I've read a lot of good about it and a lot of bad ( sorry Stu ).
>Opinions are great and I'd like yours
I've read enough testimonials from survivors of that cult, on the web.
When cults say: Oh, don't believe it, that's just sour grapes, well.
I would only believe *that* if I know the person saying it
personally, and trust their opinion, and that person knows the one
who criticizes the cult personally, and knows for a fact that the
person has an ulterior motive.
It happens all too often - what else could a cult do, to minimize
the bad effect of the truth getting out? Dismiss it out of hand.
exactly.
try rickross.com - that is one place where they have some info
about TM as a cult:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/tm.html
tracy
| |
| Joey Goldstein 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a
congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values?
tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:47:11 GMT, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've read enough testimonials from survivors of that cult, on the web.
> When cults say: Oh, don't believe it, that's just sour grapes, well.
> I would only believe *that* if I know the person saying it
> personally, and trust their opinion, and that person knows the one
> who criticizes the cult personally, and knows for a fact that the
> person has an ulterior motive.
>
> It happens all too often - what else could a cult do, to minimize
> the bad effect of the truth getting out? Dismiss it out of hand.
> exactly.
>
> try rickross.com - that is one place where they have some info
> about TM as a cult:
>
> http://www.rickross.com/groups/tm.html
>
> tracy
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
| |
| Mr. Random 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| Hey there Tracy
Thankyou kindly for your input. Did you know TM is also a religion ( as ruled
in a court of law ). Apparently this is hidden from trainees. It's Hindu based
with offerings to Guru Dev at the trainees 'puja' (err, means initiation
ceremony? ). The mantras are also /apparently/ Hindu Diety names.
Knowing my luck it'll be different now [Puja] and I'll offend Stu even more 
Smiles and Reiki to you
Shane-o =]
| |
| tracym@askme.net 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:16:53 -0400, Joey Goldstein
<nospam@nowhere.net> wrote:
>What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a
>congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values?
I don't like organized religion either. I think the only difference
between a major organized religion and a cult is that the religion
has figured out at least what you really don't do, in order to keep
members. it's still all about keeping members.
Just a group of people with shared values....well, I don't know what
makes that spiritual.
| |
| tracym@askme.net 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:41:00 GMT, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> wrote:
>Hey there Tracy
>
> Thankyou kindly for your input. Did you know TM is also a religion ( as ruled
>in a court of law ). Apparently this is hidden from trainees. It's Hindu based
>with offerings to Guru Dev at the trainees 'puja' (err, means initiation
>ceremony? ). The mantras are also /apparently/ Hindu Diety names.
That doesn't change that it's a cult.
| |
| Mr. Random 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| tracym@askme.net wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:41:00 GMT, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> That doesn't change that it's a cult.
>
Greetings Tracy
< bangs head on monitor > I didn't say it wasn't, I'm saying that it's a
religious cult!
Shane-o =]
| |
| Sevenhundred Elves 2005-07-26, 6:02 pm |
| Mr. Random wrote:
<snip of old stuff, because I'm jumping in in the middle of this thread
just to answer a single question>
> How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question. Do you do asanas in TM?
They *do* asanas. I'm not into TM, but a former girlfriend of mine was.
She did her asanas like an expert. She learned it all from the TM
organisation, as far as I know. She also kept a yoga diet, or at least
she was vegetarian, but this was her own idea, I think, not TM. She also
adhered to the yamas and the niyamas. She was, on the whole, a better
yogi than I, but I still felt that the TM organization had ripped her
off, since she could have learned the same things much cheaper
elsewhere, with the possible exception of some secret "Siddha" stuff she
had sworn to be silent about. That oath of silence was often very
annoying to both of us, since it hampered our discussions.
S.
| |
| Joey Goldstein 2005-07-26, 11:08 pm |
|
tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:16:53 -0400, Joey Goldstein
> <nospam@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>
> I don't like organized religion either. I think the only difference
> between a major organized religion and a cult is that the religion
> has figured out at least what you really don't do, in order to keep
> members. it's still all about keeping members.
>
> Just a group of people with shared values....well, I don't know what
> makes that spiritual.
Spiritual values?
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
| |
| tracym@askme.net 2005-07-26, 11:08 pm |
| On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:13:19 -0400, Joey Goldstein
<nospam@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>
>tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
>Spiritual values?
I will refrain from speaking further.
| |
| Joey Goldstein 2005-07-27, 9:00 am |
|
tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
>
> I will refrain from speaking further.
Hmm. I wonder why.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
| |
|
| On 2005-07-25 23:35:10 -0700, Joey Goldstein <nospam@nowhere.net> said:
> Thanks for writing Stu.
>
> Stu wrote:
> your breath or concentrate on the light from a candle or on some
> particular thought with an actual meaning. The only other mantra
> meditations I've read about seem to involve actually making the sound of
> the mantra, vocally (eg. "OM"), which again is tied up with the breath.
>
> Mantras can be chanted, or recited silently.
TM appears to be unique in that the mantra is simply a thought, and a
> meaningless thought at that, and does not need to be tied to any
> rhythmic cycle in its repetitions.
>
> Actually, there are a number of organizations that teach mantra
> meditation like the TM people. As I said before it is standard
> traditional yoga. I already mentioned the Buddhist site Wildmind.org,
> there is the Vedanta Society http://www.vedanta.org/, The Siddha Yoga
> foundation http://www.siddhayoga.org/index.html
Those are off the top of my head. Also, these organizations will
initiate you for free or a very small voluntary donation.
Deepak Chopra's organization teaches a TM like version of mediation for
about $375.
I know there is a lot of baggage attached to the TM teacher's
> assignation of the mantra.
> As a TM practitioner ("follower"?) of many years, Stu, how do you feel
> about this?
>
> Back in 1974 I went to a series of lectures, initiation and followup to
> learn TM. They also gave me a very quick instruction on asanas and
> pranayama. I paid them $35. They offered weekend courses and advanced
> techniques. I never took them up on those.
I have read Maharishi's book, The Science of Being and the Art of
Living. Back in 1974 it was an excellent introduction to yoga. There
are better books now. Maharishi also wrote an interpretation of the
Bhagavad-Gita. It is an excellent clear interpretation of the text. I
suggest it to anyone.
There was a guy (Eli Bay?) who was teaching a de-mystified version of TM
> called The Relaxation Response and he simply replaced the Hindu mantras
> with the word "one". Do you think that this mantra can be as effective
> as the ones assigned
> by the TM people?
>
> There has been some independent studies of this, the results showed
> that TM resulted in a very different physiological state then simple
> repeating a word.
If not, then why?
>
> It may be that the teaching of TM is highly controlled. It followers
> conventions that go back hundreds of years and is time tested. The
> official TM explanation is that the Mantras are imbued with the
> presence of "Guru Dev" through the Puja. I do know that if I use a
> different mantra than the one I was given I do not have the same
> effects.
The TM organization is very bizarre. Part of that is because Maharishi
> Practicing TM is not a high priority for me right now so I don't think
> I'll be going in for any "checking" any time soon. The technique's not
> really all that hard to remember anyway.
>
> Thats too bad you have taken that attitude. I understand your problem
> with the TMO. But when I have gone in for a checking even 20 years
> later I have found it to be a good experience. You seem to be
> interested in starting to meditate again. That is the easiest way.
If you want a change, look in the phone book and see who teaches
meditation in the area. You may find a different technique resonates
with you better. There are hundreds of meditation techniques. There
must be a reason for this. Different strokes for different folks.
You may also enjoy taking some yoga classes. You may enjoy asanas as
yet another facet in the jewel of yoga.
The point here is if you are interested in yoga there are plenty of
avenues to explore.
--
~Stu
| |
|
| On 2005-07-26 08:16:04 -0700, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> said:
> Stu wrote:
(snip)[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Greetings Stu
>
> Seriously man, relax. Please don't take my opinion so
> seriously/personally. I'm not attacking TM, although it may have come
> across that way <sigh>
Honestly, A google search for TM Cult Danger?
If you were not attacking TM why didn't you post any of the studies
that the National Institute of Health has sponsored showing TM's many
positive benefits?
>
> I said at the start that I am no expert in relation to TM and have
> never practised it.
>
That is very clear.
I also mentioned:
>
> <Quote>
> You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of
> any possible dangers I'd hate to think that my inaction helped
> someone to become hurt ...
> </Quote>
>
This is how those sites work. They don't need any real facts, just
opinions written up to look like facts.
How do imagine getting hurt by closing one's eyes twice a day and
repeating a mantra?
Why would you give these nuts support by spreading their links?
> Notice that I did not say that TM is dangerous or that you will die
> from it, just that there /may/ be possible dangers. The possible
> dangers are mentioned on trancenet.org.
>
No they are not mentioned on trancenet. The are fabricated on trancenet.
> How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question. Do you do asanas in TM?
>
Not in TM. TM is meditation. It is non action. Breath settles to
nearly nothing. The only asana one practices when one meditates is
sitting.
However, TM is practiced before or after asanas and pranayama. Though
when it is taught, the asanas and paranayama are an option. On the
weekend courses the students practice rounding, this is a cycle of
asanas, pranayama and meditation.
I learned asana practice long before I learned TM. I have found the
two practices complement each other.
> You said "Why spread this venom?" I already answered that in the
> above quote. Plus, I did not consider it "venom", just another side
> to a story that may or may not be true. You seem to consider it
> "venom" because you do not know any person with any problems from it,
> so see the articles as illogical. I can understand that
>
No, you purposely looked for the dangerous cult side. Where were the
2000 some research studies on TM that can be found on Pub Med? For
example:
Am J Cardiol. 2005 May 1;95(9):1060-4.
Long-term effects of stress reduction on mortality in persons > or = 55
years of age with systemic hypertension.
Schneider RH, Alexander CN, Staggers F, Rainforth M, Salerno JW, Hartz
A, Arndt S, Barnes VA, Nidich SI.
Institute for Natural Medicine and Prevention, Maharishi university of
Management, Fairfield, Iowa, USA. rschneider@mum.edu
Psychosocial stress contributes to high blood pressure and subsequent
cardiovascular morbidity and mortality. Previous controlled studies
have associated decreasing stress with the Transcendental Meditation
(TM) program with lower blood pressure. The objective of the present
study was to evaluate, over the long term, all-cause and cause-specific
mortality in older subjects who had high blood pressure and who
participated in randomized controlled trials that included the TM
program and other behavioral stress-decreasing interventions. Patient
data were pooled from 2 published randomized controlled trials that
compared TM, other behavioral interventions, and usual therapy for high
blood pressure. There were 202 subjects, including 77 whites (mean age
81 years) and 125 African-American (mean age 66 years) men and women.
In these studies, average baseline blood pressure was in the
prehypertensive or stage I hypertension range. Follow-up of vital
status and cause of death over a maximum of 18.8 years was determined
from the National Death Index. Survival analysis was used to compare
intervention groups on mortality rates after adjusting for study
location. Mean follow-up was 7.6 +/- 3.5 years. Compared with combined
controls, the TM group showed a 23% decrease in the primary outcome of
all-cause mortality after maximum follow-up (relative risk 0.77, p =
0.039). Secondary analyses showed a 30% decrease in the rate of
cardiovascular mortality (relative risk 0.70, p = 0.045) and a 49%
decrease in the rate of mortality due to cancer (relative risk 0.49, p
= 0.16) in the TM group compared with combined controls. These results
suggest that a specific stress-decreasing approach used in the
prevention and control of high blood pressure, such as the TM program,
may contribute to decreased mortality from all causes and
cardiovascular disease in older subjects who have systemic hypertension.
PMID: 15842971 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> Look, I get the feeling from your post that you're not impressed with
> me right now. My apologies if I am wrong, seriously. I'm not afraid
> to say sorry if shown that I am wrong.
>
> Also, thanks for the other links. I do know of the related health
> benefits of TM. A lot of these benefits were mentioned when I went to
> the TM Centre here in Australia.
>
> Do you still hate me?
>
>
No. I don't hate you.
The internet is full of misinformation. The yoga community is full of
cults. Each cult seems to have its demons. Osha was kicked out of
the US. His cult was discovered passing viruses to a nearby town
population. He owned a bunch of Rolls Royces. Yet his lectures and
writings are still inspirational.
Yogaville was run by a guru who was having secret affairs with a number
of students. Yet we have had people on this NG who have learned a
great deal from Yogaville.
Sure the TMO is a bit weird. They charge too much for meditation. I
would never recommend them for that reason alone. But they don't
deserve to racked through the coals. The yoga is sound. Maharishi's
writings are still good. And I have found no better technique than TM
in my wanderings.
--
~Stu
| |
| Mr. Random 2005-07-27, 6:07 pm |
| G'day Stu
No worries. You have my humble apologies for being so quick to judge TM.
I didn't mention the benefitial side/effects of TM due to the fact that if you
search for 'transcendental meditation' on Google, most of what you see *is* the
benefits and I didn't think this was balanced. What I should of done was use
that search, but also point out some of the possible criticisms, therefore being
non-biased.
Reading your post helped me realise what my problem is with TM: it seems to me
like a money-making scandal. The practise seems sound [mantras], err, no pun
intended, but the other problem I have is that people ( only some ) /apparently/
have side effects from the mantras. These being a disassociative feeling,
feeling dazed afterwards, release of stored anger in a bad fashion, etc. I
don't like that they 'forget' to mention the Hindu side of it - is this true?
[Hindu religion side; Puja to Guru Dev] You have been initiated so could you
elaborate on it's validity? To hear it from someone who actually practises TM
and not from some website whose motives I don't actually know would be
appreciated and more realistic.
Have you learnt the sidhas levels?
I'm glad you don't hate me
Smile for no reason!
Shane-o =]
| |
|
| Hi Joe,
Every body who is within this YOGA act clearly knows that TM is a
sharlatan bizz.The guy on their top is not a yogi. Because non of a
real yogi collects any sort of any material from the others....Even to
charge its members for US DOLLARS...is only seen in SHARLATANS WAY of
ACTION.
These people claim levitation. But levitation is a bully...No one can
be against GRAVITY...
Only you have to use another force to make it zero!
So maharishi is not a rishi at all...All he is doing CHEATING.. But
only very stups can believe such bullies...They say that TM -Sidhi is
an advanced program including yogic flying.. Are they stups? No one can
fly....They think everybody stup!!!
That is the point ...
Puma
| |
|
|
"Joey Goldstein" <nospam@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:42E44662.E6116EDB@nowhere.net...
>
> Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM
> organization.
> When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be
> extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another
> zone.
>
> But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I
> saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just
> seemed wacko.
>
> I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation
> techniques but I have done a bit.
>
> Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you
> could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
>
> --
> Joey Goldstein
> http://www.joeygoldstein.com
> joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Hi Joey,
In my experience of trying various techniques the important principle
in all is letting go and sacrifice of the ego. It is only in the quality of
the sacrifice that progress is made. Whether this is a simple meditation
where one focusses on the breath and sacrifices all other thoughts in
the practice, or in Bhakti meditation where one inwardly sacrifices all
attachments and lets go in God.
Regards
KJ
| |
|
| On 2005-07-27 08:08:09 -0700, "Mr. Random" <blah@blah.com> said:
> G'day Stu
>
> No worries. You have my humble apologies for being so quick to judge TM.
>
> I didn't mention the benefitial side/effects of TM due to the fact
> that if you search for 'transcendental meditation' on Google, most of
> what you see *is* the benefits and I didn't think this was balanced.
> What I should of done was use that search, but also point out some of
> the possible criticisms, therefore being non-biased.
>
> Reading your post helped me realise what my problem is with TM: it
> seems to me like a money-making scandal. The practise seems sound
> [mantras], err, no pun intended, but the other problem I have is that
> people ( only some ) /apparently/ have side effects from the mantras.
> These being a disassociative feeling, feeling dazed afterwards, release
> of stored anger in a bad fashion, etc.
After the Beetles, The Beach Boys and Moody Blues popularized TM in the
60's millions of people were initiated. Of those people I am sure
there was a percentage of people with prior mental pathologies. I
suspect that those reporting depersonalization or other mental effects
had prior conditions.
There is also a condition called the "relaxation response". People
with deeply buried stresses will find that relaxation allows these
stresses to surface. Meditation, massage, asana are exactly what these
people need. They just need to work through it.
If TM is dangerous, then all forms of meditation are dangerous. Like I
said it is no big secret of a technique. You start to say the mantra
silently, and when you forget you start it up again. This is done with
the least effort possible. The method of teaching how to accomplish
this with the least effort is Maharishi's greatest accomplishment. We
don't pay for the mantra, we pay for the subtle technique trained with
careful conformity.
You can get the mantra from any Web site on Bija Mantras. They are no
secret. The trick is in the way the meditation is practiced to be
effective.
> I don't like that they 'forget' to mention the Hindu side of it - is
> this true? [Hindu religion side; Puja to Guru Dev] You have been
> initiated so could you elaborate on it's validity? To hear it from
> someone who actually practises TM and not from some website whose
> motives I don't actually know would be appreciated and more realistic.
TM has its roots in the Hindu religion. Maharishi's book "Science of
Being and the Art of Living" is very clear about TM's roots. This book
was required reading back in the 70's. It has a chapter dedicated to
the teachings of the Hindu bible, "The Bhagavad Gita". Maharishi has
maintained that it is important to practice one's own religion. And
that TM is fully compatible with other religions.
I did not feel deceived when I was initiated. The Hindu roots were
apparent to anyone who goes into a TM center. And there are a number
of Priests, Rabbi's and Ministers who practice TM along with their
faith.
However, Fundamentalist xtians seem to have a problem with TM.
Apparently it is not compatible with their interpretation of the bible.
They also have a problem with all forms of yoga. For them it is
witchcraft. We are all going to die and go to hell.
>
> Have you learnt the sidhas levels?
No. I have had very little contact with the TMO. I have been back for
some lectures and group meditations. But I see no reason to get
further techniques. The basic TM technique is simple and powerful.
>
> I'm glad you don't hate me
>
>
>
> Smile for no reason!
> Shane-o =]
Glad to be of help.
--
~Stu
| |
|
| KJ,
It seems to me that SACRIFICE OF THE EGO is not correct. First of all
one should know what is an EGO! Ego is a false SELF,it is a self has
been tailored by others and given to us as an outfit to put on. And we
do it but in reality this ego that is (false self) ,and the real self
,(inner self) are in a big fight...Unhappines is the result of this
endless fight.The real solution lies within the reaching the real
SELF...All we have to do must be to reach the REAL SELF...
That is so simple,You can not sacrifice anything if it is false!
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| Mr. Random 2005-07-28, 6:00 pm |
| Hey there Stu
Thankyou kindly for your continued patience with me. It's much appreciated
Kudos
Shane-o =]
|
| |
|
|