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Good days,
This is my first poster. These days the same wrong saying is almost
everywhere.
That is " YOGA and MEDITATION"
In fact, Meditation is a part of yoga,therefore stating YOGA and
MEDITATION might only indicate a wrong doing. If meditaion is an
element of yoga,that means without meditation there is no yoga.
So when using this *WRONG* statement,we must be mindfull..
Being mindfull 
Bothi
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
| |
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| Bothi wrote:
>
> Good days,
>
> This is my first poster. These days the same wrong saying is almost
> everywhere.
>
> That is " YOGA and MEDITATION"
>
> In fact, Meditation is a part of yoga,therefore stating YOGA and
> MEDITATION might only indicate a wrong doing. If meditaion is an
> element of yoga,that means without meditation there is no yoga.
>
> So when using this *WRONG* statement,we must be mindfull..
>
> Being mindfull
>
> Bothi
>
Hello, Bothi,
I do not disagree with you. It's important to realize, though, that many
people are first drawn to the asanas (sometimes in response to physical
problems that they are experiencing) and, only later, to a meditation
practice. The limited practice that they think of as "yoga," though
incomplete, can be very helpful to them. Like the rest of us, they will
eventually find their path. It seems to me that we can help them more by
welcoming them, than by puristically insisting on a correct use of
terms. Having said that, I realize that some will still want to insist.
Have a good day.
--Don
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yogabare
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"Don" <lalladas@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:42DAB61F.C4A69C7B@earthlink.net...
> Bothi wrote:
>
> Hello, Bothi,
>
> I do not disagree with you. It's important to realize, though, that many
> people are first drawn to the asanas (sometimes in response to physical
> problems that they are experiencing) and, only later, to a meditation
> practice. The limited practice that they think of as "yoga," though
> incomplete, can be very helpful to them. Like the rest of us, they will
> eventually find their path. It seems to me that we can help them more by
> welcoming them, than by puristically insisting on a correct use of
> terms. Having said that, I realize that some will still want to insist.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> --Don
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yogabare
Hi All,
I agree with Don. In my opinion if you stopped 100 people in the
street and asked them what yoga was 90+ of them would say it
is bending your body into funny positions. Unfortunately this
stereotypical view is unlikely to change and maybe it is better to
talk of yoga as referring to the Hatha yoga postures in general
conversation so that people will know what you mean (well sort
of!) People also have a general understanding of meditation.
Hence I talk about my yoga and meditation practice when chatting
with a general audience.
Regards
KJ
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Don Wrote:
> Bothi wrote:
>
> Hello, Bothi,
>
> I do not disagree with you. It's important to realize, though, that
> many
> people are first drawn to the asanas (sometimes in response to
> physical
> problems that they are experiencing) and, only later, to a meditation
> practice. The limited practice that they think of as "yoga," though
> incomplete, can be very helpful to them. Like the rest of us, they
> will
> eventually find their path. It seems to me that we can help them more
> by
> welcoming them, than by puristically insisting on a correct use of
> terms. Having said that, I realize that some will still want to
> insist.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> --Don
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yogabare
Hi Don:
What I am referring is not for the people who are new in YOGA, my words
are for the people who present themselves as TEACHERS, as GURUS, or
others within these categories...
Yoga is a science of THRUTH not of stories...So, when starting for
anything we should be honest and correct....YOGA as known by yogis have
8 stages...MEDITATION is one of them....ASANAS are not yoga,only a part
of yoga.
Welcoming any body,this should be correctly done.It is not puristism
what we are dealing with, it is YOGA...So our style is not puristic,
it is YOGIC...
If any person insists on this saying, we have to remind him/her about
PATANJALI...
With compassion
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
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KJ Wrote:
> "Don" <lalladas@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:42DAB61F.C4A69C7B@earthlink.net...
> many
> physical
> meditation
> will
> by
> insist.
>
> Hi All,
>
> I agree with Don. In my opinion if you stopped 100 people in the
> street and asked them what yoga was 90+ of them would say it
> is bending your body into funny positions. Unfortunately this
> stereotypical view is unlikely to change and maybe it is better to
> talk of yoga as referring to the Hatha yoga postures in general
> conversation so that people will know what you mean (well sort
> of!) People also have a general understanding of meditation.
> Hence I talk about my yoga and meditation practice when chatting
> with a general audience.
>
> Regards
>
> KJ
Hi all,
It seems very funy learning what YOGA is from the people on the
streets...
Actually these people who are defending wrong statement "YOGA and
MEDITATION" obviously are not within YOGA, They are doing some sort of
action, it might be atletics,or some sort of freaks,but for sure it is
not YOGA. Because Sri PATANJALI has shown what yoga is, it has 8 steps,
without all of them it can not be called YOGA...
So let us not forget that if we want to be samples say as teachers or
instructors,we should act accordingly we should be honest and correct
as much as we could...we can not correct our mistakes by another
mistake!!! ;)
With compassion,
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
| |
| Sevenhundred Elves 2005-07-20, 2:08 pm |
| Bothi wrote:
>
> Good days,
>
> This is my first poster.
Welcome, Bothi!
> These days the same wrong saying is almost everywhere.
>
> That is " YOGA and MEDITATION"
Right, we shouldn't separate meditation from yoga when we speak about
yoga. Most of the regular posters here at alt.yoga don't, but many who
are new to yoga do. This is an error, of course, but it is not a great
error. If you are new to mathematics, say, perhaps you use the terms
mathematics and geometry in the same manner, not realizing that geometry
is a part of mathematics. When you learn mathematics, you will also
learn what is part of it. It is the same with yoga. We can't expect that
everybody knows everything about it immediately.
> In fact, Meditation is a part of yoga,therefore stating YOGA and
> MEDITATION might only indicate a wrong doing. If meditaion is an
> element of yoga,that means without meditation there is no yoga.
Yes, but seeing that the general public think that yoga is only asanas
and workout sessions, a yoga school which also teaches meditation will
have to point it out somehow.
> So when using this *WRONG* statement,we must be mindfull..
I hope they are doing it with maximum mindfulness, and only to
distinguish themselves from those schools that only teach asanas..
> Being mindfull
Good for you!
S.
| |
| Bothi 2005-07-20, 10:55 pm |
|
Sevenhundred Elves Wrote:
> Bothi wrote:
>
>
>
> Welcome, Bothi!
>
>
> Right, we shouldn't separate meditation from yoga when we speak about
> yoga. Most of the regular posters here at alt.yoga don't, but many who
> are new to yoga do. This is an error, of course, but it is not a great
> error. If you are new to mathematics, say, perhaps you use the terms
> mathematics and geometry in the same manner, not realizing that
> geometry
> is a part of mathematics. When you learn mathematics, you will also
> learn what is part of it. It is the same with yoga. We can't expect
> that
> everybody knows everything about it immediately.
>
>
> Yes, but seeing that the general public think that yoga is only asanas
> and workout sessions, a yoga school which also teaches meditation will
> have to point it out somehow.
>
>
> I hope they are doing it with maximum mindfulness, and only to
> distinguish themselves from those schools that only teach asanas..
>
>
> Good for you!
>
> S.
Hi Sevenhundred Elves,
I know that defendents try to defend wrong doers! Non of the math
scholar makes any mistake regarding what you are saying about
Geometry.
What I am talking about is not for people new in YOGA... I am alking
about people who present themselves as YOGA TEACHERS,or some sort of
Instructors. And YOGA schools,or yoga sites....
Being mindful is good for everybody. But these yoga teachers do you
really think they are mindful? As far as I know mistakes are done
without any mindfullness.
To defend a mistake is another mistake, lets not defend wrong doers...
Lets be all mindful,
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
| |
| Sevenhundred Elves 2005-07-21, 11:50 am |
| Bothi wrote:
>
> Hi Sevenhundred Elves,
>
>
> I know that defendents try to defend wrong doers! Non of the math
> scholar makes any mistake regarding what you are saying about
> Geometry.
>
> What I am talking about is not for people new in YOGA... I am alking
> about people who present themselves as YOGA TEACHERS,or some sort of
> Instructors. And YOGA schools,or yoga sites....
>
> Being mindful is good for everybody. But these yoga teachers do you
> really think they are mindful? As far as I know mistakes are done
> without any mindfullness.
>
> To defend a mistake is another mistake, lets not defend wrong doers...
>
> Lets be all mindful,
Yes, but think about it again: If you are a yoga teacher who wants to
teach more than just the asanas, how would you announce it? Since there
are many yoga classes where only asanas are taught, those who want to
teach a more complete yoga (including pranayama, pratyahara, dharana
etcetera) will have to add a line saying that they are also teaching
meditation. How would you do that, if you were such a yoga teacher?
It seems to me, that, no matter how you phrase it, it might look as if
you were separating yoga from meditation. Perhaps they could say
something like "We teach yoga, including meditation", would that be
acceptable? (But even that looks a bit like separating meditation from
yoga)
S.
| |
|
|
Sevenhundred Elves Wrote:
> Bothi wrote:
> alking
> doers...
>
> Yes, but think about it again: If you are a yoga teacher who wants to
> teach more than just the asanas, how would you announce it? Since
> there
> are many yoga classes where only asanas are taught, those who want to
> teach a more complete yoga (including pranayama, pratyahara, dharana
> etcetera) will have to add a line saying that they are also teaching
> meditation. How would you do that, if you were such a yoga teacher?
>
> It seems to me, that, no matter how you phrase it, it might look as if
> you were separating yoga from meditation. Perhaps they could say
> something like "We teach yoga, including meditation", would that be
> acceptable? (But even that looks a bit like separating meditation from
> yoga)
>
> S.
Instead of I think it again, why don`t you see where I am pointing
at!!!
Most of the YOGA teaching people are not teaching YOGA,if you teach
only ASANA it becomes ASANA but not YOGA! if you teach only MEDITATION
it becomes meditaion but not yoga... So to teach YOGA one should know
what YOGA is and really should tech YOGA... THE 8 STAGES .. How you do
it depends on if teacher is honest or not... If cheeters become YOGA
TEACHERS, it is very easy to pinpoint them,you may see if he/she is
teching YOGA or not...And the key words indicate the point very
clearly. SATYA should be the one to defend....
I hope I have made myself clear...
Lets be mindful
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
| |
|
| On 2005-07-21 12:32:24 -0700, Bothi
<Bothi.1sjk03@no-mx.forums.yoga-meditation.org> said:
>
> Sevenhundred Elves Wrote: Bothi wrote:
>
> Instead of I think it again, why don`t you see where I am pointing
> at!!!
>
>
> Most of the YOGA teaching people are not teaching YOGA,if you teach
> only ASANA it becomes ASANA but not YOGA! if you teach only MEDITATION
> it becomes meditaion but not yoga... So to teach YOGA one should know
> what YOGA is and really should tech YOGA... THE 8 STAGES .. How you do
> it depends on if teacher is honest or not... If cheeters become YOGA
> TEACHERS, it is very easy to pinpoint them,you may see if he/she is
> teching YOGA or not...And the key words indicate the point very
> clearly. SATYA should be the one to defend....
>
> I hope I have made myself clear...
>
> Lets be mindful
His holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi puts it another way. He
maintains that when one is properly initiated into a meditation
practice, they will have a regular experience of cosmic consciousness.
As a result of this daily ritual that the other parts of the astanga
will naturally flow towards the individual. His book "The Science of
Being and the Art of living" make a strong case for this. It is as if
all experiences flow from cosmic consciousness. The astanga is a
natural outgrowth of a meditation practice.
Another Yogi, BKS Iyengar takes another approach. His yogic philosophy
starts with asana. His method has a student understanding the
fundamental principals of asana. After a few years once the
fundamentals are mastered through careful discipline then he introduces
pranayama practice. Eventually, the student's physiology is developed
so greatly that the student may take part in the path of meditation.
For Mr. Iyengar it is important to take each step one at a time.
Here are two Indian Yogic Masters from the same ancient traditions who
have dialectically opposed philosophies. I agree with both of them.
--
~Stu
| |
| Bothi 2005-07-24, 12:59 am |
|
Stu Wrote:
> On 2005-07-21 12:32:24 -0700, Bothi
> <Bothi.1sjk03@no-mx.forums.yoga-meditation.org> said:
>
> of
> you
> to
> to
> dharana
> teaching
> if
> from
> MEDITATION
> know
> do
> YOGA
>
> His holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi puts it another way. He
> maintains that when one is properly initiated into a meditation
> practice, they will have a regular experience of cosmic consciousness.
> As a result of this daily ritual that the other parts of the astanga
> will naturally flow towards the individual. His book "The Science of
> Being and the Art of living" make a strong case for this. It is as if
> all experiences flow from cosmic consciousness. The astanga is a
> natural outgrowth of a meditation practice.
>
> Another Yogi, BKS Iyengar takes another approach. His yogic
> philosophy
> starts with asana. His method has a student understanding the
> fundamental principals of asana. After a few years once the
> fundamentals are mastered through careful discipline then he
> introduces
> pranayama practice. Eventually, the student's physiology is developed
> so greatly that the student may take part in the path of meditation.
> For Mr. Iyengar it is important to take each step one at a time.
>
> Here are two Indian Yogic Masters from the same ancient traditions who
> have dialectically opposed philosophies. I agree with both of them.
> --
> ~Stu
Hi Stu,
There is no master. Mahareshi Mahesh is a *COMMERCIAL PERSON* He sells
MANTRAS for a highly great money...In yoga there is aparigraha, that
means one can not charge such a high prise for a mantra...And do not
lie Mahesh claims to fly on the air, which is not correct. No one
has been able to fly without any equipment so far.No lies...All must
be on SATYA basis. Therefore MAHES is far away from HOLINESS... And it
is a pty to mention holines with his name...Holiness needs being
correct and pure....Holiness is not so cheap!!!
Yes B.K.S. Iyengar is a yogi. He is not giving emphasis only for
ASANAS. If you know his style,all his work is on yoga,that is on the 8
STAGES. You have seen only asanas,in asanas he shows exactly 3 planes
BODY PLANE,ENERGY PLANE and DIVINITY PLANE. In divinity plane you are
making meditation while you are on any asana....Even when inhaling
actually we receive divine nergy he says,when we exhale,we submit
ourselves into the divinity... These are his own words,while he is
teaching PRANAYAMA...
Great sage PATANJALI has put forward what YOGA IS....So you may check
it to see the reality on YOGA!!
But these days, many FALSE TEACHERS talking about YOGA but they do not
know it . They are doing atletics,freaks, or all type of Bullies,like
the ones in circus, getting into a small box.. These are not yoga in
INDIA there are many FAKIRS doing lot of hard postures but what they do
is not yoga at all...False teachers teaching false YOGA!!!!
So if new starting people want to know yoga,they just be careful, and
see if their teacher really know YOGA or not. If teacher says YOGA and
Meditation, that means he/she does not know YOGA at all. YOGA is the
name of INTEGRATION. Seperation has nothing to do with yoga...
In Yoga we try to be our own MASTERS...
Lets be all mindful
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
| |
|
| On 2005-07-22 13:49:01 -0700, Bothi
<Bothi.1sl9ot@no-mx.forums.yoga-meditation.org> said:
>
> Stu Wrote: On 2005-07-21 12:32:24 -0700, Bothi
>
> Hi Stu,
>
>
>
> There is no master. Mahareshi Mahesh is a *COMMERCIAL PERSON* He sells
> MANTRAS for a highly great money...
I did make a donation of $35 when I was initiated. That does not seem
like too much for a practice I have had for over 30 years now.
> In yoga there is aparigraha, that
> means one can not charge such a high prise for a mantra...And do not
> lie Mahesh claims to fly on the air, which is not correct. No one has
> been able to fly without any equipment so far.No lies...All must
> be on SATYA basis.
>
Evidently you are not familiar with MMY's practices. He has never made
claims of levitation.
Therefore MAHES is far away from HOLINESS... And it
> is a pty to mention holines with his name...Holiness needs being
> correct and pure....Holiness is not so cheap!!!
>
This sounds like words spoken out of ignorance. Have you read "Science
of Being, Art of Living". Have you heard him lecture. Or are you just
going by the rumors started by fundamentalist xtian anti-meditation
groups?
> Yes B.K.S. Iyengar is a yogi. He is not giving emphasis only for
> ASANAS. If you know his style,all his work is on yoga,that is on the 8
> STAGES. You have seen only asanas,in asanas he shows exactly 3 planes
> BODY PLANE,ENERGY PLANE and DIVINITY PLANE. In divinity plane you are
> making meditation while you are on any asana....Even when inhaling
> actually we receive divine nergy he says,when we exhale,we submit
> ourselves into the divinity... These are his own words,while he is
> teaching PRANAYAMA...
>
>
> Great sage PATANJALI has put forward what YOGA IS....So you may check
> it to see the reality on YOGA!!
>
Agreed. However, every yogi I have come in contact has a different
interpretation of Patanjali. This is common. I know for example that
Yogacharya T Krishnamacharya taught four different interpretations of
the Yoga Sutras.
>
> But these days, many FALSE TEACHERS talking about YOGA but they do not
> know it . They are doing atletics,freaks, or all type of Bullies,like
> the ones in circus, getting into a small box.. These are not yoga in
> INDIA there are many FAKIRS doing lot of hard postures but what they do
> is not yoga at all...False teachers teaching false YOGA!!!!
>
>
> So if new starting people want to know yoga,they just be careful, and
> see if their teacher really know YOGA or not. If teacher says YOGA and
> Meditation, that means he/she does not know YOGA at all. YOGA is the
> name of INTEGRATION. Seperation has nothing to do with yoga...
> In Yoga we try to be our own MASTERS...
>
> Lets be all mindful
>
But who made you the authority on what is the correct yoga? And why
would your interpretation be more accurate then a guy who teaches Yoga
in a health club as a way to tighter buns?
Are we not all students on the same path?
--
~Stu
| |
| Dave ©¿©¬ 2005-07-24, 12:53 pm |
| "Stu" <Nospam@towel.com> wrote in message
news:200507222252018930%Nospam@towelcom...
> On 2005-07-22 13:49:01 -0700, Bothi
> <Bothi.1sl9ot@no-mx.forums.yoga-meditation.org> said:
>
>
> I did make a donation of $35 when I was initiated. That does not seem
> like too much for a practice I have had for over 30 years now.
>
> Evidently you are not familiar with MMY's practices. He has never made
> claims of levitation.
>
> Therefore MAHES is far away from HOLINESS... And it
> This sounds like words spoken out of ignorance. Have you read "Science
> of Being, Art of Living". Have you heard him lecture. Or are you just
> going by the rumors started by fundamentalist xtian anti-meditation
> groups?
>
> Agreed. However, every yogi I have come in contact has a different
> interpretation of Patanjali. This is common. I know for example that
> Yogacharya T Krishnamacharya taught four different interpretations of
> the Yoga Sutras.
>
> But who made you the authority on what is the correct yoga? And why
> would your interpretation be more accurate then a guy who teaches Yoga
> in a health club as a way to tighter buns?
>
> Are we not all students on the same path?
> --
> ~Stu
Howdy Stu!
I would say: "Quite the opposite!"
We are all students.
Each of us is on a UNIQUE path.
Eventually (ideally), all of the paths arrive at the same location.
--
Dave ©¿©¬
http://www.howdydave.com
| |
|
| On 2005-07-23 10:11:11 -0700, "Dave ©¿©¬" <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> said:
> "Stu" <Nospam@towel.com> wrote in message
> news:200507222252018930%Nospam@towelcom...
> Howdy Stu!
>
> I would say: "Quite the opposite!"
>
> We are all students.
> Each of us is on a UNIQUE path.
> Eventually (ideally), all of the paths arrive at the same location.
>
Howdy Dave,
I am pretty sure we are in agreement on this issue.
--
~Stu
| |
| Bothi 2005-07-24, 12:53 pm |
|
Hi Stu,
Do you think a holy person sells his ideas? Do you think any holy
person cheats his fellows? All TM people talking about LEVITATION!!! 
Please be awake...Even you have been cheated by getting your 35
dollars...This should give you an idea!!!
I am not an authority... I am a PATANJALI FOLLOWER. and there is no
need to interprete PATANJALI...It is clearly open... 8 STAGES all of
them constitute YOGA...
So please be awake, be mindful.
Regards,
--
Bothi
This message originated from http://www.yoga-meditation.org
| |
|
| On 2005-07-23 08:34:12 -0700, Bothi
<Bothi.1sn8b4@no-mx.forums.yoga-meditation.org> said:
>
> Hi Stu,
>
> Do you think a holy person sells his ideas?
No. But they do need to eat.
> Do you think any holy
> person cheats his fellows?
No. And I have seen no evidence of the anyone in the TM organization
cheating anybody.
> All TM people talking about LEVITATION!!!
I am a TM person I don't talk about levitation. Maharishi only talks
about it when he is discussing human potentiality. He is an avid
optimist.
>
>
> Please be awake...Even you have been cheated by getting your 35
> dollars...This should give you an idea!!!
>
My $35 was a suggested donation. Somebody has to pay for the roof over
their heads.
Do you get your yoga books for free?
I am not an authority... I am a PATANJALI FOLLOWER. and there is no
> need to interprete PATANJALI...It is clearly open... 8 STAGES all of
> them constitute YOGA...
>
> The yoga sutras are very open to interpretation. These are not
> detailed instructions. They are broad aphorisms.
So please be awake, be mindful.
> Regards,
>
> Don't worry about me. It is clear you have not gone to a TM center and
> talked with the people. You are only reporting what you have heard.
> You have heard wrong.
--
~Stu
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