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experience of Ed Rubenstein in Kundalini from ancient traditional approach and Reiki T
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| Hanindyo 2005-11-17, 12:59 am |
| Dear Friends, I'm forwarding this message to this group, I'm hoping
that we could learn something from this.. Enjoy 
with Love and Light,
hanindyo
I would like to share my understanding about kundalini since I have
experience of kundalini from both the perspective of the ancient
traditional Yogic approach and Reiki Tummo. I practiced kundalini from
an ancient yogic approach for over 15 years, and that included 3 years
in Nepal and India.
Awakening of kundalini by Yogic Guru or representative of the Guru is
referred to as shaktipat or initiation. A typical way this occurs is
through the repetition of a siddha mantra while focusing on a
particular chakra. This activates kundalini, breaks the knot it the
base chakra and can open the ida channel. The teachings explain this
as the most blessed gift and the start of the real journey of life
because Kundalini begins its spiritual journey home. The
problem is that even the great Yogic Spiritual Masters who disciples
view as fully self-realized beings or deities in human form do not
claim to be able to open up the other chakra knots that block kundalini
from being able to flow up the core channel (sushumna). The Yogic
Spiritual Masters say that the widening of the sushumna and opening of
the chakra knots can not instantly occur because tremendous amounts of
samskara (karma) would be released and a disciple could not survive
the personal trauma and turmoil that would occur from the ripening of
the karma. So in addition to using a siddha mantra to meditate and
arouse kundalini, there are other yogic practices that are taught. For
example, there is pranayam breathing to purify the ida and pingla
energy channels, asana postures for developing glands, meditation on
the chakras using the acoustic sound of that particular chakra along
with the color and shape relevant to that chakra, fasting, pure
vegetarian diet, and other spiritual practices. The goal of these
practices is to purify the seven energetic body layers referred to as
the Kosas, open energy channels and the chakra knots, and widen the
sushumna so that kundalini can complete its journey. I spent many
months in the Himalayas engaging in these practices for seven hours a
day. I was able to experience the space between my thoughts and the
space between my breaths, which is traditionally considered to be an
important passage, but my sushumna and all of my chakra knots did not
open. I had kundalini energetic sensations, though after many years of
practice I concluded that my efforts had long ago stagnated and I did
not experience any new significant spiritual progress. As I observed
friends and yogic monks and nuns from different yogic traditions, who
engaged in extensive yogic kundalini practices for many years, I felt
that they were not making the big spiritual breakthroughs that I once
believed would occur if we just meditated long enough or more
diligently. My dream of kundalini reaching the crown chakra and
achieving the highest Samadhi states was broken and I became
disillusioned with the ancient system of Yoga.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>From my experience, the traditional ancient yogic path has limitations
that are often not understood by spiritual seekers when they are
beginning the yogic path. I share these not to be disrespectful to the
honored ancient traditions, but to help spiritual seekers realize that
there is a difference between the old school yogic approach and Reiki
Tummo which is available to us in the present and supporting us to
fulfill our ultimate spiritual destiny. This is available to us now
due to the shifts in existence that have occurred since the year 2000.
Below are the limitations of the ancient yogic path that I have come to
understand.
1: Students frequently become top heavy, like a tree that grows wide
on the top but does not have a root system to support its top growth.
Asana postures are used as the main spiritual practice to accomplish
grounding. The problem is that during the initiation or shaktipat with
the Yogic teacher, the sushumna channel is not opened to the core of
the earth. Proper rooted grounding is not achieved, and it is common
that students may become spacey, ungrounded, or develops health
problems because they are not properly connected to earth energy.
2: The initiation or shaktipat does not open all of the chakra knots,
the core channel (sushumna) is not opened and the chakras are not
opened. Hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice with the best Yogic
techniques, even those not found in books and only passed down from
teacher to student, does not result in the opening of chakra knots and
widening of the sushumna. The opening and widening of the sushumna
represents exhausting lifetimes of negative Karma. This is viewed as
very difficult to achieve or to live through, since ones life would
fall apart due to the excessive negative karma that ripened.
3: Ancient Yogic Systems are mostly based on worship of a Guru or
worship of a lineage, which is supposed to represent the highest
embodiment of God. Surrender or worship to the Guru as the embodiment
of the Divine, is the vehicle to take the spiritual seeker from
illusion to Yoga. The Guru is set up to be the divine bridge. The
problem with this approach is that it creates a boundary between our
Spirit and our direct connection to the True Source which can only take
place in the core of our Heart. A picture of the spiritual master is
frequently placed on the puja (alter) table. Devotional offerings are
directed to the Guru or the lineage which are viewed as the sacred
representative that was responsible for awakening the seekers
kundalini. Through the Guru or lineage worship approach, transcendent
experiences can occur such as meeting of the Guru or other teachers on
the subtle dimensional realms. The student can hold onto these
experiences as if they are major divine occurrences. The problem is
that this can become a limitation, because the goal of Yoga has nothing
to do with the experience of visiting the learning dimensions. The
true goal of Yoga, no matter what tradition in which it is being
practiced, is nothing less than complete union with the Creator. When
we offer our devotional energy to any being in human form or to a being
on a higher dimension, we limit ourselves and our spiritual potential.
Any time we seek to open our heart to anything other than to the
direct connection of the Love of the True Source, we have become
misaligned with the ultimate goal of existence. The Guru and disciple
relationship is not beyond the law of karma. Only the Love of the True
Source which is beyond the law of karma, can take us Home to Yoga.
4: In order to grow spiritually, the basic premise is that sexual
energy needs to be transmuted and sublimated to spiritual essence which
is referred to as "ojas". Spiritual energy is supposed to rise and
stimulate the pineal gland. Fasting, asanas, vegetarian diet, and
spiritual practices are utilized to keep the lower three chakras from
becoming stimulated and emphasis is on vibrating the higher chakras.
Stagnant force, known as "Tamaguna" is said to dominate the lower
chakras and keeps one in "animality". One is supposed to stay
connected to the upper chakras which are dominated by the sentient
force of "Sattwaguna". This is viewed as the path to become divine.
This yogic approach can create conflicts, and splits within oneself. If
a male ejaculates or has a wet dream, there is often guilt that he will
not be able to achieve great spiritual heights and concerns develop
that kundalini advancement will be limited. Monks often become
frustrated because they have taken vows of celibacy, yet sublimating
sexual energy can be a most difficult challenge. From the traditional
yogic approach, dealing and managing sexual energy can become a very
big issue that can consume a lot of mental energy, and lead to much
confusion and agitation, not only with monks, but with householders who
seek spiritual realization.
5: A common theme in the traditional yogic approach is that struggle
is the essence of life. Progress is achieved by learning to calm the
monkey mind that likes to jump from thought to thought. The more
diligent one becomes in there meditation practice, it is understood
that they have to be prepared to deal with a faster ripening of there
samskara (karma). So if you go deeper into your meditation, and
ripening of karma brings many difficulties to your life, then it is
believed that this is a great sign of progress because karmic load is
lessening. The problem is that we have accumulated thousands of
lifetimes of karma, and the small lessening of the load is minute
compared to the huge storehouse of karma that we have. In one
lifetime, you can not meditate enough hours to exhaust all of ones
karma. Sometimes it is believed that the Guru will take on the karma
of the disciples and when the Guru gets ill, it is thought to be the
result of karma absorbed from the disciples. Yet the Guru is not able
to take on the karma that is involved in the widening of the sushumna
and opening of the chakra knots of his disciples. The yogic system is
designed to do that over a long period of practice and sacrifice,
however from my experience and observation of others, I did not see
that happen. In Reiki Tummo, because allegiance is not to a Guru or
lineage, all chakra knots are opened and the sushumna is opened in an
instant, due to the Love of the True Source which is the Grace that is
beyond the law of karma.
6: The ancient Yogic approach to kundalini does not work directly
with the Heart. There is a difference between using the heart chakra
as a focal point, and going into the inner layers of the Heart to
experience the core of ones True Self. From the traditional yogic
approach, the Inner Heart, which is the spark of the True Source in the
core of our Heart, is not utilized to make moment to moment choices.
Yogic students are not attuned by their traditions to access
the loving wisdom of their Inner Hearts. When the experience of the
Heart is not the center of what we do and who we are, then we make
brain dominant choices which are ego based. Maya or illusion, and more
karma are created by our actions when life is not lived from our Heart.
From my experience, many believe they are following their Heart, but
in actuality, they are in their head thinking that they are following
their Hearts.
7: From the perspective of the traditional yogic approach, Yoga is
achieved through the union of "Shiva" and "Shakti" when kundalini flows
to the crown chakra. This is supposed to represent the completion of
ones spiritual journey. In kundalini traditions this is often referred
to as Mahasamadhi or Nirvakalpa Samadhi. In Reiki Tummo, many have
come to understand that when kundalini reaches the crown chakra, it is
only a step of the real journey Home to Yoga.
8: The traditional Yogic path is often referred to as the "Path of
Perfection". The student is supposed to be a spiritual warrior that is
willing to face all challenges and undergo whatever he needs to do so
that he or she can achieve the perfection of the seven body layers, and
purify themselves to a degree in which they can achieve spiritual
realization. The problem is, "who is the one that is seeking
perfection". The "I" that is seeking perfection can be seeking
perfection for less than perfect motives. The "I" is often linked to
ego, and the student is using the effort of the ego to attempt to
achieve spiritual union that is beyond the ego. Surrender is talked
about but not necessarily understood because the Heart is not the core
emphasis of the yogic kundalini approach. What needs to be surrendered
is being used as the main vehicle to achieve spiritual realization.
It's like a fish swimming around and trying to get out of the water and
no matter how much it swims, it is still in the water. The result is
that the boundary of "I" and "Thou" is not able to dissolve and the
enhancement of spiritual growth is limited. Our human effort is not
enough to reach Yoga, yet in the traditional yogic approach it is the
discipline of our human effort that is being used as the main tool to
reach self-realization.
In due respect to those who may still be practicing ancient yogic
systems, I am suggesting that the traditional yogic path that has been
practiced for thousands of years, is an outdated paradigm and a limited
approach compared to what the path of Reiki Tummo has to offer. Years
ago the traditional yogic view of kundalini, was all that we knew. Now
we have a new approach that is available but in order to appreciate the
most profound spiritual gift that the path of the Heart provides, we
have to be willing to let go of concepts we have read in books about
kundalini and yoga. We have to let go of ideas that may have been told
to us by teachers of traditional yogic systems because they are
invested in their paradigm and may not realize the limitations of their
approach. When we follow an old paradigm as if it is the ultimate
reality, then we are closed to what the gift of a new paradigm has to
offer us.
In my experience, Reiki Tummo offers us a spiritual gift that has never
been available to us before. The potential for greater spiritual
progress than we have achieved in thousands of lifetimes, can be
realistically experienced in short period of time.
Alumni of Reiki Tummo do not become top heavy because during the Level
1 attunement the core channel is connected to the core of the earth,
and they become better nourished by the earth's energy. Feeling well
rooted and grounded is the result. Health and overall energy levels
improve. As one gets further attunements and goes on to participate in
Master Yoga, all of the chakras blossom like a lotus. Our energetic
system becomes more spiritually open, balanced and healthy. Even
while enjoying deep spiritual experiences, we can function in the world
and interact more smoothly and efficiently with whatever challenges are
before us. During Level 2, kundalini is safely awakened, the sushumna
is widened, and during Level 3 the sushumna is further widened and all
seven chakras are opened. In Master Yoga, our chakras blossom like
lotuses, the sushumna continues to widen, and kundalini reaches new
spiritual heights. The question is often asked, "How can this be
achieved since the opening of sushumna and chakra knots represents the
clearing of lifetimes of Karma?" The reason is that a Guru or energy
from a particular spiritual lineage is not the source of the
Attunement. Master Irman explains that the Love of the True Source is
beyond the Law of Karma, and the attunements are allowing and relying
on the Love of the True Source to dissolve karmic blockages without
alumni having to receive the karmic reactions from our past actions. To
fully realize what this means, we can never be the same again. For so
very, very long, we have been wondering through the karmic bondages of
time, digging more and more holes, and falling into those holes over
and over again. We have drastically failed to realize how far away we
have gotten from our original Home. We have failed to realize the depth
of our pain and suffering from our separation to our Beloved True
Source. We have not known how to get out of the karmic bondages that
have kept us enslaved through time. Our karmic debt is huge...and our
actions and lack of realization has trapped us into a karmic prison.
The rock walls of our karmic prison are so thick and yet we have
continued to think we can break through by our human effort. It's like
we are trying to escape the prison by scratching at the rock walls with
our finger nails ....and we have been doing this for so long. We
have relied on our false selves rather than relying on the Love of the
True Source. We have lived with false beliefs, false dreams, false
hopes and false priorities. Existence has now shifted. I realize that
the time is here for all of us to receive the wake up call...calling us
to come Home. It is not hard or difficult, because it is not our
effort that will take us Home. The call that we have been waiting for,
for millions of years, has come. The Love of the True Source is calling
us back to where we belong. We just have to embrace the Love and
follow. We don't have to be separate or alone anymore. The Love wants
to break through the Karmic wall of our prison, and cleanse us like a
mother cleanses her dirty child. The Love does not want us to suffer
anymore. The Love wants to remove all of our karma because the Love
wants our Spirit to come Home to our Beloved. The Love is our Beloved.
We just have to let go and let the Love work with the deepest and
complete gratitude for the Love. We are coming Home. This is not just
a metaphor....our name has been called.
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-17, 5:58 pm |
| Hi Hanindyo,
Is your post just spam?
are you in contact with Eddie?
The post seems to be full of too many misunderstandings for me to
believe that he wrote it.
I know him from time in North America and India mid 70's.
give him my regards.
HB
| |
|
|
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-19, 5:58 pm |
| oh well.
I did not and will not receive it.
the address hbkta@aol.com is no longer used by me.
I am simply too lazy to change my google registration info.
| |
|
| Hanindyo,
1- Chaktipat is a nonsense. Because KUNDALINI affair is an AWAIKING. No
one but only person himself/herself can be awaken by the help of
himself/herself not by others help...
2- Kundalini is known by all its wrong meaning...KUNDALINI is the name
of AWAKENING of WHOLNESS. The rest is BULLY...
3- REIKI TUMMO is another bully.
4- By use of any BULLIES no one can awaken his/her KUNDALINI.
5- TO get KUNDALINI RISE one does not need to go INDIA or to go NEPAL
or to go HIMALAYAS... All these places has nothing to do with
KUNDALINI...
IF you want to learn KUNDALINI RISE please be sincere and try to find
your relation with the others as a WHOLE....
If you get this relationship and if you earze all other info from your
mind then chances are very high...
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| Hanindyo 2005-11-20, 10:58 am |
| Haribhakta,
well you could gave me your private e-mail address, so i could gave
Ed's email addres and his phone number too..
hbkta@aol.com wrote:
> oh well.
> I did not and will not receive it.
> the address hbkta@aol.com is no longer used by me.
> I am simply too lazy to change my google registration info.
| |
| Hanindyo 2005-11-20, 10:58 am |
| Puma,
I invite you to feel by using your heart, so you can trully know what
Reiki TUMMO is
It's best if you bought Reiki TUMMO book (available in Amazon), and try
the steps to be within the Heart, to be within the Inner Heart so you
could realize the real truth about the whole thing
Irmansyah only taught us, how to be in the Heart, to be as a Heart and
not as ourselves (with ego, shells, perceptions, wrong concepts etc..).
The rest you will experienced by yourself..the Inner Heart will really
guide you to the True Purpose of Life
Let All Hearts Become More Sweeter,
Loving the True Source and Others better Each Time
Hanindyo
by
puma wrote:
> Hanindyo,
>
> 1- Chaktipat is a nonsense. Because KUNDALINI affair is an AWAIKING. No
> one but only person himself/herself can be awaken by the help of
> himself/herself not by others help...
>
> 2- Kundalini is known by all its wrong meaning...KUNDALINI is the name
> of AWAKENING of WHOLNESS. The rest is BULLY...
>
> 3- REIKI TUMMO is another bully.
>
> 4- By use of any BULLIES no one can awaken his/her KUNDALINI.
>
> 5- TO get KUNDALINI RISE one does not need to go INDIA or to go NEPAL
> or to go HIMALAYAS... All these places has nothing to do with
> KUNDALINI...
>
> IF you want to learn KUNDALINI RISE please be sincere and try to find
> your relation with the others as a WHOLE....
>
> If you get this relationship and if you earze all other info from your
> mind then chances are very high...
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-20, 10:58 am |
| tell Ed that I can be reached @primus.ca
precede that with my english first name and second letter of that name,
no spaces.
Thankyou
o
| |
|
| Hanindyo,
I suggest that no one has a right to change the concepts and words,and
their real meanings. HEART is full of BLOOD to feed our cells. However
science sometimes insert
some STENTS for health reasons... So in the heart there is only blood
and if necessary stents...
If this REIKI is a real thing it has no relation with the TUMMO.... As
tummo is a psychic heat... In REIKI a concept related to SOUL happens
to be...But in Buddhism there is no SOUL ! So contardictions can not
help us. At least logic can not take it...
There is no inner heart nor outer HEART. there is only one HEART which
cleans the bloodand pumpts it to our cells. All the sciense tells and
shows this...
Poetry is good for only few minutes..But poetry does not help us for
our lives.
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-21, 1:00 am |
| the does more than pump blood,
http://www.bloginservice.com/cgi-bi...rames/read/2334
"...The heart generates the largest electromagnetic field in the body
and is measured in an electrocardiogram aka ECG/EKG and its electrical
field is about 60 times greater than that of the brain. The magnetic
component of the heart's electrical field is about 5,000 stronger than
that of the brain, is not impeded by tissues and can be measured
several feet from the body..."
http://www.mindpub.com/art500.htm
http://paulapeterson.com/Earthcode.html
" ...we have now learned that communication between the heart and brain
is actually a dynamic, ongoing, two-way dialogue, with each organ
continuously influencing the other's function. Research has shown that
the heart communicates to the brain in four major ways: neurologically
(through the transmission of nerve impulses), biochemically (via
hormones and neurotransmitters), biophysically (through pressure waves)
and energetically (through electromagnetic field interactions).
Communication along all these conduits significantly affects the
brain's activity. Moreover, our research shows that messages the heart
sends the brain can also affect performance.... "
http://massagetherapy.com/articles/...?article_id=218
"... In 1983, the heart was reclassified as an endocrine gland when a
new hormone called atrial natriuretic factor (ANF), which affects blood
vessels, kidneys, adrenal glands and regulatory regions in the brain,
was found being produced by the heart. Dr. J. Andrew Armour discovered
the heart also contains a cell type known as intrinsic cardiac
adrenergic (ICA), which synthesizes and releases neurotransmitters once
thought to be produced only by neurons in the brain and nerve
ganglia..."
Compassion comes from your heart, not your brain cells.
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-21, 5:59 pm |
|
Theo wrote:
> hbkta@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> and good fonctioning of teh whole system brain
> heart lungs liver and so on
Yes. the system as a whole.
the comment was directed at Puma, who seems stuck in his head.
when one actually feels Compassion, as opposed to thinking it, one
feels it with and in the heart.
> fron the modest a** hole.. if he decides to
> strike all the machinery gets poisoned and cannot
> work properly anymore
> you see the importance of the Humble ones?
>
You lost me there, I have no idea what you mean by any of that.
>
> Theo
>
> Il Bonsai nelle 4 stagioni
> http://www.easybonsai.it
> il sito che fa di voi degli * Dei* autodidatti :-)
| |
|
| Hi HBKTA,
Thanks very very much for your kind information regarding the
functions of HEART.
How does heart doing all these functions? Certainly by pumping the
BLOOD...If it does not,life will stop!!! And moreover, without any of
the organs that we got in our bodies,HEART is helpless!!!
What I have wanted to state has been tried to prove it the other way
around...
So not only for compassion,for all the actions we show we need the
WHOLENES,even all the others, lets say all togetherness...The EXISTENCE
OF ALL....
I hope now you can have a better picture of everything....And se how
compassion happens!
With compassion,
PUMA
hbkta@aol.com wrote:
> the does more than pump blood,
>
> http://www.bloginservice.com/cgi-bi...rames/read/2334
>
> "...The heart generates the largest electromagnetic field in the body
> and is measured in an electrocardiogram aka ECG/EKG and its electrical
> field is about 60 times greater than that of the brain. The magnetic
> component of the heart's electrical field is about 5,000 stronger than
> that of the brain, is not impeded by tissues and can be measured
> several feet from the body..."
>
> http://www.mindpub.com/art500.htm
>
> http://paulapeterson.com/Earthcode.html
>
> " ...we have now learned that communication between the heart and brain
> is actually a dynamic, ongoing, two-way dialogue, with each organ
> continuously influencing the other's function. Research has shown that
> the heart communicates to the brain in four major ways: neurologically
> (through the transmission of nerve impulses), biochemically (via
> hormones and neurotransmitters), biophysically (through pressure waves)
> and energetically (through electromagnetic field interactions).
> Communication along all these conduits significantly affects the
> brain's activity. Moreover, our research shows that messages the heart
> sends the brain can also affect performance.... "
>
> http://massagetherapy.com/articles/...?article_id=218
>
> "... In 1983, the heart was reclassified as an endocrine gland when a
> new hormone called atrial natriuretic factor (ANF), which affects blood
> vessels, kidneys, adrenal glands and regulatory regions in the brain,
> was found being produced by the heart. Dr. J. Andrew Armour discovered
> the heart also contains a cell type known as intrinsic cardiac
> adrenergic (ICA), which synthesizes and releases neurotransmitters once
> thought to be produced only by neurons in the brain and nerve
> ganglia..."
>
> Compassion comes from your heart, not your brain cells.
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-22, 12:55 pm |
|
Theo wrote:
> hbkta@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> I ment taht we always consider *nobles organs *
> like brain heart teh most important ones.. and
> it is not true
> teh whole system is interdependent a glitch
> in a remote place can effect the whole fonctioning
of course.
I did not say otherwise.
> of the Masters organs
> you see what I mean ?
>
> Theo
>
> Il Bonsai nelle 4 stagioni
> http://www.easybonsai.it
> il sito che fa di voi degli * Dei* autodidatti :-)
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-22, 12:55 pm |
|
puma wrote:
> Hi HBKTA,
>
> Thanks very very much for your kind information regarding the
> functions of HEART.
Hi Puma,
it is good to hear that you now know that heart is more than mere
pumper of blood.
>
> How does heart doing all these functions? Certainly by pumping the
> BLOOD...If it does not,life will stop!!! And moreover, without any of
> the organs that we got in our bodies,HEART is helpless!!!
>
Was that supposed to be a big revelation to me or anyone else?
> What I have wanted to state has been tried to prove it the other way
> around...
>
> So not only for compassion,for all the actions we show we need the
> WHOLENES,even all the others, lets say all togetherness...The EXISTENCE
> OF ALL....
>
> I hope now you can have a better picture of everything....And se how
> compassion happens!
>
I hope with the new knowledge of the heart that you now have, and its
electormagnetic field, perhaps you can come to more accurate
understanding of pranamaya kosa.
how it is generated by and permeates and penetrates the whole physical
body which you can see with your eyes. how it is real and not separate
from the body of anatomy books.
energy field is there, body is there, nerves are in the body, nerves
can sense the field as it ineracts and is generated by the body. (ooops
maybe not your nerves)
[vbcol=seagreen]
> With compassion,
>
> PUMA
>
>
> hbkta@aol.com wrote:
| |
|
| Hi HBKTA,
It is not feasible what you are trying to prove to me. All your info
regarding biology ,physiology,anatomy of the body are all known facts
by SCIENCE...
But when it comes to PRANAYAMA KOSHA and to NADIS, these are completely
out of SCIENCE. But these are the subject matter of YOGA...NADIS ,
senses and neourons are completely different subjects...
So what you are trying is actually trying to put apples and figs in to
the same basket. When you do this apples get easily broken down from
their freshness...
So you also need some biochemical and neurological help to understand
my point of view...
However you are pretty good person...
With compassion,
Puma
hbkta@aol.com wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> puma wrote:
>
> Hi Puma,
> it is good to hear that you now know that heart is more than mere
> pumper of blood.
>
>
> Was that supposed to be a big revelation to me or anyone else?
>
>
> I hope with the new knowledge of the heart that you now have, and its
> electormagnetic field, perhaps you can come to more accurate
> understanding of pranamaya kosa.
> how it is generated by and permeates and penetrates the whole physical
> body which you can see with your eyes. how it is real and not separate
> from the body of anatomy books.
> energy field is there, body is there, nerves are in the body, nerves
> can sense the field as it ineracts and is generated by the body. (ooops
> maybe not your nerves)
>
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-22, 5:58 pm |
|
puma wrote:
> Hi HBKTA,
>
> It is not feasible what you are trying to prove to me. All your info
> regarding biology ,physiology,anatomy of the body are all known facts
> by SCIENCE...
>
> But when it comes to PRANAYAMA KOSHA and to NADIS, these are completely
> out of SCIENCE. But these are the subject matter of YOGA...NADIS ,
> senses and neourons are completely different subjects...
>
Hi Puma,
You are a funny fellow.
science describes reality in one way.
the yoga system describes it in another way.
One day you may realize that what they describe from different angles,
using different means of perception, is the same reality.
Someday later you may be able to experience for yourself the reality
the yoga system describes. Until then all your yoga practice is in your
imagination. Until then all your hatha yoga is bully.
> So what you are trying is actually trying to put apples and figs in to
> the same basket. When you do this apples get easily broken down from
> their freshness...
>
only if you leave them there and do not use them for what they are for,
eating.
both are food. why put them in a basket? Better to eat them and get the
nourishment from both.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> So you also need some biochemical and neurological help to understand
> my point of view...
>
> However you are pretty good person...
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
>
> hbkta@aol.com wrote:
| |
|
| Hi HBKTA,
You are doing completely reverse of what you say
" only if you leave them there and do not use them for what they are
for,
eating.
both are food. why put them in a basket? Better to eat them and get the
nourishment from both."
You even are not aware what you are doing...
this is the point...If my hatha is bully, yours is HULLY!!!!
So i hope you get some sort of AWARENESS,when you mix things all
together, you cannot get their special taste...
Hope one day you are gonna be awaken though.
However you are a nice person...
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-23, 1:00 am |
| Puma,
I am curious as to what your "spiritual beliefs" are. Are you Christian,
Athiest...tell us, please. It may shed a little light (no pun intended) on
the subjects that you have commented on.
You talk about Science proving this and that...can Science prove anything?
How about God? Buddha? KRSHNA, or any diety in various cultures?
I have seen you "disproving" Reiki, and giving only a scientific description
of the Heart. What is your goal? What is your purpose? Are you just a sad
person seeking to make others as depressed and angry as you? You end your
emails with "compassion", but I haven't seen any. I have seen fear, anger,
confusion. Compassion is none of these. Compassion is caring, kind, and
loving. I have yet to see that in your emails.
With Love, Light, and Compassion--Namaste
Woody
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1132701826.116961.221840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi HBKTA,
>
> You are doing completely reverse of what you say
> " only if you leave them there and do not use them for what they are
> for,
> eating.
> both are food. why put them in a basket? Better to eat them and get the
> nourishment from both."
>
> You even are not aware what you are doing...
>
> this is the point...If my hatha is bully, yours is HULLY!!!!
>
> So i hope you get some sort of AWARENESS,when you mix things all
> together, you cannot get their special taste...
>
> Hope one day you are gonna be awaken though.
>
> However you are a nice person...
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
>
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-23, 5:58 pm |
| Hi Puma,
of course you are entitled to YOUR opinion..
| |
|
| Hi Woody,
Thanks for your interest in my spiritual outfit... Actually I do not
have any old fashion outfits. Long time ago I took them off. However I
am not walking around naked though. I just have made my own style
spiritual outfit..
I see the existence as self existed and changing of WHOLENESS. All
together,you and me and stones,animals viruses,air ,water,stars,
nebulas,quasars, carbon stars,galaxies,
in short everything consist the WHOLE... this is what might be called
GOD...
Surely science has proven manythings upto now...How would it be
possible to be on the Moon, or on the Mars! How would be possible to
find the cures of many ilness! How would be possible to invent machines
making life easier for the mankind!Even we are here communicating with
the help of SCIENCE, Do you think this is due to the POWER of REIKI? or
any other WITCHCRAFT?
As to the holy books and their explanations regarding God or Buddha or
Jesus,or Krishna,or Moses, Mohammed,or Bahaullah,or any other fellow
,are mostly others distorted ideas ( YOU MAY CHECK THE HISTORY OF
SUMERS and see in there THEIR GOD,how SUMER GOD GIVES HIS LAWS TO
SUMER KING HAMMURABI) being injected to people of the world. In other
words these holy books are a sort of STORIES, in these stories mostly
men are in the position of a DRIVER...Women are allways at the behind,
at the very back ground... So thse can never represent the words of a
real GOD!
As to the REIKI, it is all nonsense,No one can get any healing effect
through REIKI! If Reiki was a real heling power,these people getting
under the soil every minute would be less,and less....But only a sort
of WHICHCRAFT is now being presented to humanity as a healing
devise...And starting from initiations or attunement MONEY start to
talk while people walk!!!
First degree,second degree,third degree and MASTERS all around the
world. These masters I know are all cheaters...they can not heal
anybody but they charge people by alot of money...These masters are
only masters of CHEATING,these can be seen any other area too...GURUS
,Teachers teaching YOGA,but always they charge people. In reality in
yoga there is no charging money or any other matter. According to
PATANJALI PARIGRAHA is not permitted in YOGA but who cares!!!
Some of these GURUS abuse their students in sexually or
moneywise...Some smart cheaters talk about the energies of STONES and
of CRYSTALS. actually only radioactive crystals radiate some nucleer
energy around but others do not have any energy radiation. But these
smart Masters charge poor people by claiming the healing energy of
these crystals...
I am sad because these poor people are being cheated by these smart
MASTERS of CHEATERS...Compassion is not an pasiv action...Iti s an
action for the good of
WHOLLNESS. MASTERS of REIKI ,MASTERS of YOGA, (You may check SAHAJA
YOGA and TM) and see how these masters live a luxurous life thru their
poor followers..
Even in recent years many Yoga followers were killed by these masters
`orders!!!
It is sad that you only see depression and anger in my posters!!! This
is the real compassion I understand...If I have noticed some reality
and others are not aware of that, it is my obligation and the result of
my COMPASSION to warn them.Compassion is not a pasive action my dear
friend, real compassion is being together for the good of others...
In it warning others,telling the truth,helping others can be counted...
This is what I am trying to do my friend .I hope,you from now on look
around with open eyes so that you will see the same pictures that I
SEE...
With compassion,
Puma
Woody James wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Puma,
>
> I am curious as to what your "spiritual beliefs" are. Are you Christian,
> Athiest...tell us, please. It may shed a little light (no pun intended) on
> the subjects that you have commented on.
>
> You talk about Science proving this and that...can Science prove anything?
> How about God? Buddha? KRSHNA, or any diety in various cultures?
>
> I have seen you "disproving" Reiki, and giving only a scientific description
> of the Heart. What is your goal? What is your purpose? Are you just a sad
> person seeking to make others as depressed and angry as you? You end your
> emails with "compassion", but I haven't seen any. I have seen fear, anger,
> confusion. Compassion is none of these. Compassion is caring, kind, and
> loving. I have yet to see that in your emails.
>
> With Love, Light, and Compassion- or -Namaste
>
> Woody
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1132701826.116961.221840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-24, 1:00 am |
| Puma,
I do respect what you have to say. But, I do see a lot of contradiction in
your words. You don't believe in an ancient, organized religion, but you
have formed your own belief system. How is that any different than Reiki or
an Ecclectic Pagan? Truly, how does it differ from anything else? Science,
as you say, has found cures for many illnesses. OK, I can go with that (I
personally disagree to an extent). Science has also created illness, as
well as mutated bacteria, viruses, and other infections.
As for the religions putting women in the background, I do have to disagree.
It is MAN that has put the women in the background. Women play an important
role in many religions around the world, past and present.
To the point of Reiki being nonsense: If you believe it, it is so. If you
are sick, and you do not believe that Reiki, medicines, herbs, God, or
yourself can heal, you are right. If you do not wish to be healed, you
won't be healed. There is a matter of the Will. If you do not have the
Will to heal or live, then you won't. If you believe in Peace, then you
will know Peace. If you believe in Love, you will know Love. If you
believe that Reiki is real, Reiki will work.
Reiki masters getting rich? Well, there may be a few around the world. The
ones that make an above comfortable living that I know write books on the
subject. The other Reiki masters that I know (me being one) don't get rich
from it. My teacher is one of the most wellknown Reiki Masters in this
region. He personally knows, or at least has contact with, many of the "big
names" of today's Reiki world. He makes a living. Oh yeah, he is also a
Massage Therapist. That is where most of his money comes from. Is he rich?
NO. He struggles to make ends meet, like most of us. The Reiki Masters
that I know that are "rich" or very comfortable financially have gained
wealth from other means, not Reiki.
I was, and sometimes am, one of the biggest skeptics of Reiki. I am always
questioning everything I believe, challenging myself, building on what I
believe and what I disbelieve. I am constantly evolving and learning why I
believe what I believe. It makes me stronger in what I believe in, and
leads me to truth in what I realize I don't truly believe in.
It sounds as if you are trying to convince many Reiki practitioners and
masters that Reiki is fake. I am curious as to why you are hellbent on
Reiki. Did you have a bad experience with Reiki? A failed healing? An
abusive practitioner or teacher? Yes, I do admit that there are some rare
circumstances where one uses Reiki, as well as school, religion, medical
profession, or any number of other chances to use others sexually,
financially, or emotionally. One bad apple doesn't make the orchard spoil
once that bad apple is removed.
Reiki masters or Yogis killing? WOW, thatis interesting. I would love to
read that bit of fiction. I am truly interested in reading the articles
that you should have handy to support your accusation of murder. Feel free
to email them to me.
I look forward to hearing from you. I am sincerly interested in your
thoughts and feelings on these matters.
Namaste
Woody
"puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
news:1132778667.443940.83530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Woody,
>
> Thanks for your interest in my spiritual outfit... Actually I do not
> have any old fashion outfits. Long time ago I took them off. However I
> am not walking around naked though. I just have made my own style
> spiritual outfit..
>
> I see the existence as self existed and changing of WHOLENESS. All
> together,you and me and stones,animals viruses,air ,water,stars,
> nebulas,quasars, carbon stars,galaxies,
> in short everything consist the WHOLE... this is what might be called
> GOD...
>
> Surely science has proven manythings upto now...How would it be
> possible to be on the Moon, or on the Mars! How would be possible to
> find the cures of many ilness! How would be possible to invent machines
> making life easier for the mankind!Even we are here communicating with
> the help of SCIENCE, Do you think this is due to the POWER of REIKI? or
> any other WITCHCRAFT?
>
> As to the holy books and their explanations regarding God or Buddha or
> Jesus,or Krishna,or Moses, Mohammed,or Bahaullah,or any other fellow
> ,are mostly others distorted ideas ( YOU MAY CHECK THE HISTORY OF
> SUMERS and see in there THEIR GOD,how SUMER GOD GIVES HIS LAWS TO
> SUMER KING HAMMURABI) being injected to people of the world. In other
> words these holy books are a sort of STORIES, in these stories mostly
> men are in the position of a DRIVER...Women are allways at the behind,
> at the very back ground... So thse can never represent the words of a
> real GOD!
>
> As to the REIKI, it is all nonsense,No one can get any healing effect
> through REIKI! If Reiki was a real heling power,these people getting
> under the soil every minute would be less,and less....But only a sort
> of WHICHCRAFT is now being presented to humanity as a healing
> devise...And starting from initiations or attunement MONEY start to
> talk while people walk!!!
>
> First degree,second degree,third degree and MASTERS all around the
> world. These masters I know are all cheaters...they can not heal
> anybody but they charge people by alot of money...These masters are
> only masters of CHEATING,these can be seen any other area too...GURUS
> ,Teachers teaching YOGA,but always they charge people. In reality in
> yoga there is no charging money or any other matter. According to
> PATANJALI PARIGRAHA is not permitted in YOGA but who cares!!!
>
> Some of these GURUS abuse their students in sexually or
> moneywise...Some smart cheaters talk about the energies of STONES and
> of CRYSTALS. actually only radioactive crystals radiate some nucleer
> energy around but others do not have any energy radiation. But these
> smart Masters charge poor people by claiming the healing energy of
> these crystals...
>
> I am sad because these poor people are being cheated by these smart
> MASTERS of CHEATERS...Compassion is not an pasiv action...Iti s an
> action for the good of
> WHOLLNESS. MASTERS of REIKI ,MASTERS of YOGA, (You may check SAHAJA
> YOGA and TM) and see how these masters live a luxurous life thru their
> poor followers..
> Even in recent years many Yoga followers were killed by these masters
> `orders!!!
>
> It is sad that you only see depression and anger in my posters!!! This
> is the real compassion I understand...If I have noticed some reality
> and others are not aware of that, it is my obligation and the result of
> my COMPASSION to warn them.Compassion is not a pasive action my dear
> friend, real compassion is being together for the good of others...
> In it warning others,telling the truth,helping others can be counted...
>
> This is what I am trying to do my friend .I hope,you from now on look
> around with open eyes so that you will see the same pictures that I
> SEE...
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
>
>
>
> Woody James wrote:
Christian,[vbcol=seagreen]
on[vbcol=seagreen]
anything?[vbcol=seagreen]
description[vbcol=seagreen]
sad[vbcol=seagreen]
your[vbcol=seagreen]
anger,[vbcol=seagreen]
and[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
| |
|
| Hi Woody,
Thanks for your detailed reply. Let me try to open the matter a bit:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> I do respect what you have to say. But, I do see a lot of contradiction in
> your words. You don't believe in an ancient, organized religion, but you
> have formed your own belief system. How is that any different than Reiki or
> an Ecclectic Pagan? Truly, how does it differ from anything else?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no contradiction. As I have no religious beliefs at all...
All I have tried to tell you what my thooughts were regarding the
EXISTENCE... I do not belive any CREATOR out side of the existence. I
do not go any church or temple...There is no sage to follow... NO
ceremony, no prayer...
How one can claim that I have formed a belief system which is not
different from REIKI or an PAGAN... These sort of things that you have
mentioned all have their figures,rules,ceremonies ,etc... All I am
saying what is being seen by an objective eye and senses....EXISTENCE
is a WHOLLNESS, every entity needs the other one just TO BE THERE...
That is it no BELIEFS at all... please do not mix what I say with any
belief.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Science,
> as you say, has found cures for many illnesses. OK, I can go with that (I
> personally disagree to an extent). Science has also created illness, as
> well as mutated bacteria, viruses, and other infections.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You are not looking at the matters objectively, as it is not SCIENCE
that created illness and some bacteries... It is people who have not
paid their attention scientifically.. Same goes with
the Nuclear energy...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> As for the religions putting women in the background, I do have to disagree.
> It is MAN that has put the women in the background. Women play an important
> role in many religions around the world, past and present.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Okey here you certinly right if you accept the reality that all the
religions are brought about by MEN....But I can not accept that women
play an important role in WHICH RELIGION??? Past and Present!!! please
kindly state these religions and peoples names so that I might change
my wrong info. on this...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> To the point of Reiki being nonsense: If you believe it, it is so. If you
> are sick, and you do not believe that Reiki, medicines, herbs, God, or
> yourself can heal, you are right.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here now you kindly distort the claim of REIKI that no one has to
believe it in order its work!!!!!! These are all claimed facts up to
now... If this rule has changed please let me know...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you do not wish to be healed, you
> won't be healed. There is a matter of the Will. If you do not have the
> Will to heal or live, then you won't.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do you really know the persentage of will that is needed for healing? 5
%, 10 %,
50% or 90%?? There is a requirement of WILL but what percentage???
++++++++++++=++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you believe in Peace, then you
> will know Peace. If you believe in Love, you will know Love.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here again you kindly are mixing the concepts with each other, one does
not need to believe in love, to love somebody... As many lovers at the
beginning seem they all believe in love, but some of them later on,
becomes like enemies...So believing is aspecial matter that I might
talk to you later in scientifically,so you may have some real idea of
it...
Do you think soldiers,governments,people who are in a battle ,who are
in a war, they do not believe PEACE at all???? No all of them belive
peace, but here again beliefs are not important at all...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you
> believe that Reiki is real, Reiki will work.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No sir believeing has nothing to do with this sort of things...
You may try with a simple test: Open your drawer and make sure that it
is empty, and now start believing that someone will put a penny in it,
and everyday check on this if it comes thru!!!! So easy as your reiki
matter...
Almost every person believes that he/she will have a very long life,but
beliefs here again does not help... Because beliefs are sometimes very
substantial but not in these areas!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Reiki masters getting rich? Well, there may be a few around the world. The
> ones that make an above comfortable living that I know write books on the
> subject. The other Reiki masters that I know (me being one) don't get rich
> from it. My teacher is one of the most wellknown Reiki Masters in this
> region. He personally knows, or at least has contact with, many of the "big
> names" of today's Reiki world. He makes a living. Oh yeah, he is also a
> Massage Therapist. That is where most of his money comes from. Is he rich?
> NO. He struggles to make ends meet, like most of us. The Reiki Masters
> that I know that are "rich" or very comfortable financially have gained
> wealth from other means, not Reiki.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Masters ,GURUS, TEACHERS,etc... not only in reiki but in all the
subjects are all over the world.... If your known MASTER are not
reach,this is their problem...But I have known many MASTERS they make
very good money...JUST BY CHEATING...
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> I was, and sometimes am, one of he biggest skeptics of Reiki. I am always
> questioning everything I believe, challenging myself, building on what I
> believe and what I disbelieve. I am constantly evolving and learning why I
> believe what I believe. It makes me stronger in what I believe in, and
> leads me to truth in what I realize I don't truly believe in.
>
> It sounds as if you are trying to convince many Reiki practitioners and
> masters that Reiki is fake.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NO sir, I am not talking to reiki parcticioners, I am talking the
newstarting people...People who think that they can get healing from
REIKI...
Because I have seen many people insisted going to( reiki terapies) and
they did not go to medical doctors or medical centers,,, But later on
what happened they all died as they were late in getting medical
help...!!!! I hope it is clear and very serious what I am saying and
how reiki is killing people....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am curious as to why you are hellbent on
> Reiki. Did you have a bad experience with Reiki? A failed healing? An
> abusive practitioner or teacher? Yes, I do admit that there are some rare
> circumstances where one uses Reiki, as well as school, religion, medical
> profession, or any number of other chances to use others sexually,
> financially, or emotionally. One bad apple doesn't make the orchard spoil
> once that bad apple is removed.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not one bad case many bad cases They all have gone brother....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Reiki masters or Yogis killing? WOW, thatis interesting. I would love to
> read that bit of fiction. I am truly interested in reading the articles
> that you should have handy to support your accusation of murder. Feel free
> to email them to me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is not fiction, it is a reality they have gone to the other side as
they were late in taking medical help,because they believed REIKI would
make them heal, but no sir reiki did not do any good for tehm ...
I have not writing articles I am talking about what i have been
witness of
They all were late in their reports said... But the real reason was
their belief in REIKI!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> I look forward to hearing from you. I am sincerly interested in your
> thoughts and feelings on these matters.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
thanks for your nice thoughts, I hope my poster helps to show the
picture from my side to you...
With compassion,
Puma>[vbcol=seagreen]
> Namaste
> Woody
>
> "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote in message
> news:1132778667.443940.83530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Christian,
> on
> anything?
> description
> sad
> your
> anger,
> and
> the
| |
| Garry Williams 2005-11-25, 1:06 am |
| On 24 Nov 2005 17:00:52 -0800, "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote:
>Because I have seen many people insisted going to( reiki terapies) and
>they did not go to medical doctors or medical centers,,, But later on
>what happened they all died as they were late in getting medical
>help...!!!! I hope it is clear and very serious what I am saying and
>how reiki is killing people....
Okay, I have to call bullshit here. You're making it up as you go
along. I don't know *anyone* who has insisted on going to Reiki
sessions while simultaneously refusing to go to a medical doctor (BTW,
medical doctors kill many thousands of patients each year through
error, oversight, lack of time to pay proper attention to individual
patients, etc). OTOH, you claim to "know" "many" people who not only
did that, but died. How many? Where did you know them? How well did
you know them? Names. Dates. Details. Who told them not to go to
doctors? Every Reiki practitioner I know tells everyone up front that
they should consult a medical doctor for medical conditions and to use
Reiki *in conjunction with* traditional medicine and not in place of
it. You're really one of these Skeptic society members, and not a very
clever one, at that, right? C'mon, admit it, you have absolutely zero
experience with Reiki, so have no idea what it's about. You're just a
chump-change troll, right? :-)
Love and Light,
Garry
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-25, 1:06 am |
|
"Theo" <byjoke@ch.inter.net> wrote in message
news:dm66i2$f3i$5@atlas.ip-plus.net...
> Garry Williams wrote:
> HI Garry
> why do you bother answering ?
> it is snowing!
> I feel pissed off with everything !
Well, you know what they say...
It's better to be pissed off than pissed on.
Woody
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-25, 5:57 pm |
|
Garry Williams wrote:
> On 24 Nov 2005 17:00:52 -0800, "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote:
>
>
> Okay, I have to call bullshit here.
yes PUma, your thinking here is Bully on more than one level.
Just as it is not science "that created illness and some bacteries...
It is people who have not paid their attention scientifically": Reiki
did not kill anyone. Even the people's belief in Reiki did not kill
them. They were killed by disease in their body. Do you see how
confused you are in your thinking here. You apply one level of "logic"
and "reasoning" to protect your precious science and but use another
level of "thinking" to trash Reiki. Be objective and realize that you
see what you want to see to support your beliefs.
Yes, your BELieFs. why beliefs? because your thinking process is not
logical or scientific. Where are the STUDIES that show Reiki kills?
Where are the TABLES of collected DATA? There are none. Only we have
your spurious heresay as evidence, your belief.
> You're making it up as you go
> along. I don't know *anyone* who has insisted on going to Reiki
> sessions while simultaneously refusing to go to a medical doctor (BTW,
> medical doctors kill many thousands of patients each year through
> error, oversight, lack of time to pay proper attention to individual
> patients, etc). OTOH, you claim to "know" "many" people who not only
> did that, but died. How many? Where did you know them? How well did
> you know them? Names. Dates. Details. Who told them not to go to
> doctors? Every Reiki practitioner I know tells everyone up front that
> they should consult a medical doctor for medical conditions and to use
> Reiki *in conjunction with* traditional medicine and not in place of
> it. You're really one of these Skeptic society members, and not a very
> clever one, at that, right? C'mon, admit it, you have absolutely zero
> experience with Reiki, so have no idea what it's about. You're just a
> chump-change troll, right? :-)
>
> Love and Light,
>
> Garry
| |
|
|
Garry Williams wrote:
> On 24 Nov 2005 17:00:52 -0800, "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Garry:
I see that I have press on your foot! That appears from your cry ...
If there si a bulshit here it is nothing but REIKI dear...
I tell you how many people were passed on ,,, 6 or 7 to my knowledge I
remember. If you want their names and addressess I might give those to
you also, if it will move you on the good side of the life...
You do not have any info regarding medical doctors or i should say any
faith, as you guys live with faith only , you do not eat, do not breath
you only need FAITH...So It is not a surprise for me.. All the anti
scientist people are full of FAITH to all balonies anyway...
Who told them not to go doctors!!! You are without reason !!! they
were assured by those MAsters OF reiki THAT THOSE POOR PEOPLE BELEIVED
masters.. I hope your mind gets a bit light on this darken area...
All contradiction here easily can be seen , If this damn thing is good
for healing, then why these masters of yours tell these poor guys to go
to doctors also!!!
Do you see any real LOGIC here? NO LOGIC AT ALL BECAUSE REIKI IS A
BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT HAS NO LOGIC EITHER..
Surely I have zero experience on REIKI... After all these persons
have changed their WORLD, why should I put myself on this bulshit!!!! I
am against to all sharlatans and to all
CHEATERS,
I wish I have the power of troll to sweep all cheaters from this
world...
Now I get my foot press , so do not worry and do not cry ....But do
not try to darken all the nice and neat peoples` world with that REIKI
bulshit though...
Puma
> Okay, I have to call bullshit here. You're making it up as you go
> along. I don't know *anyone* who has insisted on going to Reiki
> sessions while simultaneously refusing to go to a medical doctor (BTW,
> medical doctors kill many thousands of patients each year through
> error, oversight, lack of time to pay proper attention to individual
> patients, etc). OTOH, you claim to "know" "many" people who not only
> did that, but died. How many? Where did you know them? How well did
> you know them? Names. Dates. Details. Who told them not to go to
> doctors? Every Reiki practitioner I know tells everyone up front that
> they should consult a medical doctor for medical conditions and to use
> Reiki *in conjunction with* traditional medicine and not in place of
> it. You're really one of these Skeptic society members, and not a very
> clever one, at that, right? C'mon, admit it, you have absolutely zero
> experience with Reiki, so have no idea what it's about. You're just a
> chump-change troll, right? :-)
>
> Love and Light,
>
> Garry
| |
| Garry Williams 2005-11-26, 12:58 am |
| LOL, okay, Puma, sorry to be so frank, but you are quite pathetic. You
don't have the skills of even the run of the mill troll to provoke a
good argument, nor do you have facts or critical thinking skills to
manage an intellectual, scientific discussion. Therefore I can
conclude that you are either a child trying to play a game, or a
seriously challenged adult who does not deserve being squashed like a
bug simply because it can be done, so I shall leave you in peace.
Love and Light,
Garry
<plonk!>
On 25 Nov 2005 13:59:50 -0800, "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>Garry Williams wrote:
>
>I see that I have press on your foot! That appears from your cry ...
>
>If there si a bulshit here it is nothing but REIKI dear...
>
>I tell you how many people were passed on ,,, 6 or 7 to my knowledge I
>remember. If you want their names and addressess I might give those to
>you also, if it will move you on the good side of the life...
>
>You do not have any info regarding medical doctors or i should say any
>faith, as you guys live with faith only , you do not eat, do not breath
>you only need FAITH...So It is not a surprise for me.. All the anti
>scientist people are full of FAITH to all balonies anyway...
>
>Who told them not to go doctors!!! You are without reason !!! they
>were assured by those MAsters OF reiki THAT THOSE POOR PEOPLE BELEIVED
>masters.. I hope your mind gets a bit light on this darken area...
>
>All contradiction here easily can be seen , If this damn thing is good
>for healing, then why these masters of yours tell these poor guys to go
>to doctors also!!!
>
>Do you see any real LOGIC here? NO LOGIC AT ALL BECAUSE REIKI IS A
>BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT HAS NO LOGIC EITHER..
>
>Surely I have zero experience on REIKI... After all these persons
>have changed their WORLD, why should I put myself on this bulshit!!!! I
>am against to all sharlatans and to all
>CHEATERS,
>
>I wish I have the power of troll to sweep all cheaters from this
>world...
>
>Now I get my foot press , so do not worry and do not cry ....But do
>not try to darken all the nice and neat peoples` world with that REIKI
>bulshit though...
>
>Puma
>
>
>
>
| |
|
|
"Garry Williams" <gdwill@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4p5do1l42lod2h0h7sfrt20ddgm2gm1fvu@4ax.com...
> On 24 Nov 2005 17:00:52 -0800, "puma" <puma@dowse.com> wrote:
>
>
> Okay, I have to call bullshit here. You're making it up as you go
> along. I don't know *anyone* who has insisted on going to Reiki
> sessions while simultaneously refusing to go to a medical doctor
Hmm, I recall a guy posting, can't recall his name right now but he
signed his posts with "Love is.." who would fall into that squarely
into such a group.
--
Namu Amida Butsu
Peter Reber
"Life knows its needs"
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-26, 12:58 am |
| > I see that I have press on your foot! That appears from your cry ...
Cries? I do believe (and we can prove it) that it is your cries that were
voiced first. You are on a mission to abolish Reiki. Your heart is
bleeding for people whose hearts did not bleed for him/herself. Reiki
people exist. We do our own thing. We are open to discussion and
treatments with people that are open to Healing. We may advertise, but we
do NOT go around saying "Don't go to doctors, we will heal you".
>
> If there si a bulshit here it is nothing but REIKI dear...
Point of view...opinion...if it is such bullshit (the Reiki), then why are
you wasting time on people that are apparently beyond the point of return?
Most everyone here on this group practices, teaches, or has experienced
Reiki on some level. Others are learning about it. We are not a cult. We
do not say this is the only way. We offer our views, opinions, experiences,
and help to those who seek it.
>
> I tell you how many people were passed on ,,, 6 or 7 to my knowledge I
> remember. If you want their names and addressess I might give those to
> you also, if it will move you on the good side of the life...
So, 6 or 7 people makes Reiki a bad thing. Could such a large number
(sarcasm) have been at a point that medical assistance could not have
helped? Maybe the people were going for Spiritual Healing knowing that the
end was near. 6 or 7 people out of 6 Billion is not that many. More people
die from auto accidents every day in each of the United States. Wouldn't it
be more beneficial to advocate the ceasing of automobile use? Wait, we
can't do that. More people benefit from automobiles than are killed. Oh
MY...more people benefit from Reiki than could ever be hurt by Reiki. If
someone was told by a Reiki pracititioner to NOT seek medical assistance for
particular unnamed situations, then that falls on the individual Reiki
practitioner. I know a dentist(yes, I know him...I was a patient before
these situations) that used NO2 on patients during dental procedures. The
patient would pass out, and he would have sex with them. Here in the
Charlotte, NC area, there was a dentist that would inject his own semen into
the mouths of patients. Doctors make mistakes often, as do nurses,
pharmacists....does that mean that all medical professionals are bad? More
die in the hands of doctors during routine procedures than could ever die
from malpractice of a Reiki practitioner.
>
> You do not have any info regarding medical doctors or i should say any
> faith, as you guys live with faith only , you do not eat, do not breath
> you only need FAITH...So It is not a surprise for me.. All the anti
> scientist people are full of FAITH to all balonies anyway...
Why should we have faith in Science, when science has done as much harm as
good? Faith is what keeps scientists searching for cures. Faith is what
keeps people alive. Faith is what makes the world go round. Yes, faith,
not money. Faith that we can do better for ourselves, that the world can be
a nicer place. If we didn't have the faith in that, all of this we have
created would be pointless.
>
> Who told them not to go doctors!!! You are without reason !!! they
> were assured by those MAsters OF reiki THAT THOSE POOR PEOPLE BELEIVED
> masters.. I hope your mind gets a bit light on this darken area...
Garry, you told them not to go to doctors? How dare you! (sarcasm, once
again). I know Puma means the particular Reiki practitioners in an area
unknown, to patients unknown, for medical conditions unknown. Sounds like a
conspiracy theory to me...but, then again, even us Reiki people have our
conspiracy theories....right liberals? ;-)
> All contradiction here easily can be seen , If this damn thing is good
> for healing, then why these masters of yours tell these poor guys to go
> to doctors also!!!
They aren't my masters. Well, I don't think. Help us out here. Where in
the world are you? Where in the world are these "masters" that you speak
of. It sounds like you are saying what some people in the US say..."Muslims
are killers". Well, I am sure that some are...but, not all. Also, not all
Muslims in the Middle East are killers, as for not all in the US. You are
targetting individuals in a larger group, but not giving any details.
> Do you see any real LOGIC here? NO LOGIC AT ALL BECAUSE REIKI IS A
> BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT HAS NO LOGIC EITHER..
Actually, there is no logic in your comments. Reiki doesn't work? Why do
so many people come back for Reiki sessions? Why do so many come to Healing
Groups, which are many times free? Why do so many people want to get
involved with something they have experienced but doesn't work? Are they
just lost and don't realize it doesn't work? I doubt it. It works, and
people realize it. As I said before, I got into Reiki and was a huge
skeptic. It was after working with it under my teacher for many months that
I began to understand Reiki. Not from what he taught me, but what I
experienced. Reiki saved MY life, as well as a great friend that now lives
in Canada.
>
> Surely I have zero experience on REIKI... After all these persons
> have changed their WORLD, why should I put myself on this bulshit!!!! I
> am against to all sharlatans and to all
> CHEATERS,
Zero experience...how do you know it is bullshit? How do you know any
particular religion is bullshit until you have seen it first hand? Is this
just from what others have told you? That is heresay...not even allowed
during trials in our weak judicial system in the US. It sounds like
gossip...the ole "He said, she said" bit.
>
> I wish I have the power of troll to sweep all cheaters from this
> world...
Now, it sounds like YOU are the killer. You want to commit genocide against
Reiki practitioners. Kill the Killers. Wow, how hypocritical could you be?
I was actually interested in hearing what you had to say. Well, you have
just gotten to the root of the problem. We can now call you our Pumadolf
Hitler. Everyone, get the word out...hide the Zyclon-B! For our lives
sake! Puma wants to anihilate us!
>
> Now I get my foot press , so do not worry and do not cry ....But do
> not try to darken all the nice and neat peoples` world with that REIKI
> bulshit though...
Hey, you are doing a good enough job spreading the bullshit...you should go
into agriculture...you could fertilize every acre of farmland in the United
States...maybe even get something to grow in the Southwest.
Woody
| |
|
| Ohhh, C`mon baby,
Your logic is very funny. When a man shoots by a gun to the other
guy. and if bullet hits him and the guy dies.who has killed this man do
you think? the bullet? The gun? the mans` finger? or the man who fired
it???
I have no beliefs , beliefs are good for you guys... I have seen many
people who has changed their world due to their involvent in reiki, and
therefore they were late getting medical aid... I hope you mind works
this much to get the point.
H.ever you are a nice guy.
With compassion,
Puma
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-26, 5:58 pm |
| > Your logic is very funny. When a man shoots by a gun to the other
> guy. and if bullet hits him and the guy dies.who has killed this man do
> you think? the bullet? The gun? the mans` finger? or the man who fired
> it???
Well, every good attorney knows that it is the Gun Manufacturer. That is
why everyone tries to sue Smith and Wesson when they are shot outside a
nightclub. But, then again, it could be the Bullet that killed him. I
mean, that is what bullets do, right? They kill. I don't think that
bullets have any other intended use. Or, it could be the Gun. Guns are
made to drive bullets into flesh and injure or kill a life. Wait, the
finger...that's right. A gun doesn't get up one morning and say "well, I
think I will kill someone today." It must be the finger....it has to pull
the trigger. OFF WITH HIS FINGER! Wait....you forgot the Eye! The finger
is made to contract...so, if it is near the trigger, it will just do what it
does....flex. So, it MUST be the Eye...the eye sighted the target in the
crosshairs. Hmmm......you know what I think the person died from? Lack of
blood. It is the victim's fault for bleeding everywhere.
>
> I have no beliefs , beliefs are good for you guys... I have seen many
> people who has changed their world due to their involvent in reiki, and
> therefore they were late getting medical aid... I hope you mind works
> this much to get the point.
You have no beliefs? Then, why do you believe that Reiki is bad? Why do
you believe that Witchcraft is bad? You believe a lot to not have any
beliefs. If you have no beliefs, do you not have any cares, either? If you
have no beliefs, you have the attitude "Who cares?" Well, if you don't
care, then stop worrying about others. Live and let live.
>
> H.ever you are a nice guy.
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
A nice guy......"You are a witch, and do Reiki, and are evil and kill
people...but, you are really a nice guy." How about thanking us for
existing so you can whine about something. I demand appreciation! :-)
With sarcasm and seriousness,
Woody
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-26, 5:58 pm |
| > woody
> puma does not want even conceive Reiki exists
> and Reiki does not need Puma Belief to exist
> so why to discuss he is fine we are fine ....
> and the beat goes on....
> why don't you go to paly with your kids instead
> of wasting time wioth such a troll?
> just a suggestion from peer to peer
> Theo
You guys know I love doing this. Debating for the sake of debating. Also,
maybe PUMA has some unresolved issues. Maybe this is the way to help
release all the negativity.
:-)
Woody
| |
| Woody James 2005-11-27, 12:59 am |
|
> tell me the truth .. nobody's paying attention
> to you anymore when speaking at home! right?
No....I think this is the 3rd time I have said this in other threads...my
wife doesn't like things that make her think...they give her headaches. My
mother in law and I will talk for hours on everything, but I don't get to
talk to her often. The people at work can't keep up with what I talk
about...if it isn't "Well, we had sum chicken and taters and collard greens
last night" or "the family is comin' o'er" or "at church we sang and da
preachah kep' us fo' two 'ours"....oh yeah, I am the only white guy
there...also the youngest guy, and the only one with much of an education
and intellect. They have nicknamed me "Encyclopedia".
Woody
| |
| hbkta@aol.com 2005-11-27, 10:58 am |
|
puma wrote:
> Ohhh, C`mon baby,
>
> Your logic is very funny.
perhaps my logic is funny, but at lest I have some logic.
> When a man shoots by a gun to the other
> guy. and if bullet hits him and the guy dies.who has killed this man do
> you think? the bullet? The gun? the mans` finger? or the man who fired
> it???
Your anaology does not apply because (with Reiki) no one did violence
to another person.
Please do not confuse concepts. A more applicable analogy would be:
someone holding a gun to their own head and pulling the trigger.
>
> I have no beliefs , beliefs are good for you guys...
You have lots of beliefs, unfortunately you confuse your beliefs and
opinions for truth.
>I have seen many
> people who has changed their world due to their involvent in reiki, and
> therefore they were late getting medical aid... I hope you mind works
> this much to get the point.
and I hope your mind works enough to get the point that when a person
does an action or non-action the responiblity for the consequences is
their own, the responsibility is not belong to someone else nor can
blame be laid on a sytem of ideas.
>
> H.ever you are a nice guy.
>
> With compassion,
>
> Puma
|
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