Vision - DMV Problems Part Two

Author

DMV Problems Part Two

Dan Abel

2004-11-03, 7:12 pm

I posted earlier about failing the DMV vision screening. I decided to get
glasses. I went to my OD this morning and he checked my eyes. I was
20/20 with both eyes together, and 20/20 in the left eye. The right eye
was 20/70 uncorrected and 20/25 corrected. He checked the box on the DMV
form that he did *not* prescribe glasses and the box that said he had no
advice for me concerning driving and vision. I asked him outright if
glasses would help my vision. He was certain that they wouldn't. He said
that even corrected, the vision in my left eye was so much better that my
brain would ignore the image from the right eye. So I went to the DMV,
who, despite having a paper that said I had been examined by the doctor,
ran the whole screen again. I flunked, so I'm scheduled for a driving
test at the end of the month.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
dabel@sonic.net

Mike Tyner

2004-11-03, 7:12 pm

What a hassle. They should take the doctor's word for it, but some of the
DMV folks have a Napoleon complex and can't see past numbers on paper. Hang
in there; it's probably worth it to get passed without restriction. Glasses
with big differences left-to-right can be more distracting than helpful.

If the examiner asks you to back up, turn your head far enough so your left
eye can see past your nose.

-MT

"Dan Abel" <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dabel-0311041353520001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu...
>I posted earlier about failing the DMV vision screening. I decided to get
> glasses. I went to my OD this morning and he checked my eyes. I was
> 20/20 with both eyes together, and 20/20 in the left eye. The right eye
> was 20/70 uncorrected and 20/25 corrected. He checked the box on the DMV
> form that he did *not* prescribe glasses and the box that said he had no
> advice for me concerning driving and vision. I asked him outright if
> glasses would help my vision. He was certain that they wouldn't. He said
> that even corrected, the vision in my left eye was so much better that my
> brain would ignore the image from the right eye. So I went to the DMV,
> who, despite having a paper that said I had been examined by the doctor,
> ran the whole screen again. I flunked, so I'm scheduled for a driving
> test at the end of the month.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Sonoma State University
> AIS
> dabel@sonic.net

Reece

2004-11-03, 7:12 pm

I just read the following from your state of CA, which may be helpful for
those who are reading your message.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm
----------------------------
Vision exam requirement

A 20/40 visual acuity with or without glasses is the department's vision
guideline. Customers applying for a Class A, B, or commercial C license must
see 20/40 with both eyes and each eye individually. The departmental
authority for administering the vision exam is 12804.9 (a) (1) (E) of the
California Vehicle Code.

Visual acuity measurements are obtained for both eyes together and for each
eye separately while both eyes remain open, as in normal driving. There are
two methods of testing, a Snellen chart or Optec 1000 Vision Tester.

The Snellen chart contains five lines of letters and measures the portion of
an applicant's general seeing ability, known as visual acuity or keenness of
vision. The Optec 1000 Vision Tester obtains a more precise vision score by
providing a test situation, which is equivalent to placing the applicant at
one end of a room 26 feet long to read a test target at the opposite end of
the room.

Applicants who do not pass either exams may, depending on the circumstances,
be referred to a vision specialist. The vision specialist may prescribe eye
glasses or a stronger prescription for the current eye glasses worn.

----------------------------

I do have a question, though--why are you taking a driving test at the end
of the month if you failed the vision portion? Or are you retaking the
vision portion?

Also, could you not just get a prescription to correct your eye to pass the
test?

I ask these questions just for clarification. I don't have the scientific
background to give you any advice or ideas, nor to evaluate your situation.

Reece

"Dan Abel" <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dabel-0311041353520001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu...
>I posted earlier about failing the DMV vision screening. I decided to get
> glasses. I went to my OD this morning and he checked my eyes. I was
> 20/20 with both eyes together, and 20/20 in the left eye. The right eye
> was 20/70 uncorrected and 20/25 corrected. He checked the box on the DMV
> form that he did *not* prescribe glasses and the box that said he had no
> advice for me concerning driving and vision. I asked him outright if
> glasses would help my vision. He was certain that they wouldn't. He said
> that even corrected, the vision in my left eye was so much better that my
> brain would ignore the image from the right eye. So I went to the DMV,
> who, despite having a paper that said I had been examined by the doctor,
> ran the whole screen again. I flunked, so I'm scheduled for a driving
> test at the end of the month.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Sonoma State University
> AIS
> dabel@sonic.net

Mike Tyner

2004-11-03, 7:12 pm

"Reece" <neweducation@yahoo.com> wrote

> I do have a question, though--why are you taking a driving test at the end
> of the month if you failed the vision portion? Or are you retaking the
> vision portion?

I didn't realize that CA requires 20/40 with each eye separately. In my
state (AL) he would pass. According to your quote, he wouldn't.

> Also, could you not just get a prescription to correct your eye to pass
> the test?

Because then he'll have to wear glasses to drive. IMO, this is easily a case
where glasses increase risk rather than decrease it, but logic and the law
are not always the same thing.

It sounds like they're asking him to take a driving test in order to waive
the vision requirement. If so, he should go for it.

-MT

nospam@pacbell.net

2004-11-04, 2:10 am

I have the same problem - 20/20 left eye and can't read at all with right eye,
even corrected. I took the driving test and it was a snap.

Just be sure to do all the right things, use your signals, look behind you
before you change lanes, etc.

Ora

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:53:52 -0800, dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote:

>I posted earlier about failing the DMV vision screening. I decided to get
>glasses. I went to my OD this morning and he checked my eyes. I was
>20/20 with both eyes together, and 20/20 in the left eye. The right eye
>was 20/70 uncorrected and 20/25 corrected. He checked the box on the DMV
>form that he did *not* prescribe glasses and the box that said he had no
>advice for me concerning driving and vision. I asked him outright if
>glasses would help my vision. He was certain that they wouldn't. He said
>that even corrected, the vision in my left eye was so much better that my
>brain would ignore the image from the right eye. So I went to the DMV,
>who, despite having a paper that said I had been examined by the doctor,
>ran the whole screen again. I flunked, so I'm scheduled for a driving
>test at the end of the month.

nospam@pacbell.net

2004-11-04, 2:10 am

But bear in mind that you will need to do the same thing all over again next
time you need to renew your license. You might prefer to get corrective lenses
to satisfy the DMV.

Ora

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 06:06:53 GMT, nospam@pacbell.net wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I have the same problem - 20/20 left eye and can't read at all with right eye,
>even corrected. I took the driving test and it was a snap.
>
>Just be sure to do all the right things, use your signals, look behind you
>before you change lanes, etc.
>
>Ora
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:53:52 -0800, dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote:
>

CHip

2004-11-04, 11:11 am

"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<jHdid.1763$Gm6.717@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> "Reece" <neweducation@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>
> I didn't realize that CA requires 20/40 with each eye separately. In my
> state (AL) he would pass. According to your quote, he wouldn't.
>
>
> Because then he'll have to wear glasses to drive. IMO, this is easily a case
> where glasses increase risk rather than decrease it, but logic and the law
> are not always the same thing.
>
> It sounds like they're asking him to take a driving test in order to waive
> the vision requirement. If so, he should go for it.
>
> -MT

When I took the vision test for my driver's license I thought I might
fail because I'd had LASIK a few months prior. At that point I had
trouble with 20:40 line. I excused myself to run out to the truck
where I had dilute pilocarpine eyedrops. By the time I got back
inside my pupils were miotic and I had no problem passing the test.

If the doctor agrees, you could do the same thing. The 1/8th%
dilution prevents headache and wears off after half an hour or so.
When the weather is really bad, such as snowstorms, I find I need RGP
lenses and pilocarpine to drive safely.

Otis Brown

2004-11-04, 11:11 am

Dear Dan,

The REQUIREMENT for the CA DMV is:

Best Corrected in one eye of at least 20/40 with or without corrective
lenses passes.

Since you have 20/20 in the better eye, the DMV is applying a
"requirement" that does not fit. I have posted the DMV
requirements on my site, under DMV Standards so you can check this.

I am VERY interested in the resolution of this effort, particularly
since the eye doctor says you meet the DMV requirements.

Let us know who wins this battle.

Best,

Otis
www.myopiafree.com

dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote in message news:<dabel-0311041353520001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu>...

> I posted earlier about failing the DMV vision screening. I decided to get
> glasses. I went to my OD this morning and he checked my eyes. I was
> 20/20 with both eyes together, and 20/20 in the left eye. The right eye
> was 20/70 uncorrected and 20/25 corrected. He checked the box on the DMV
> form that he did *not* prescribe glasses and the box that said he had no
> advice for me concerning driving and vision. I asked him outright if
> glasses would help my vision. He was certain that they wouldn't. He said
> that even corrected, the vision in my left eye was so much better that my
> brain would ignore the image from the right eye. So I went to the DMV,
> who, despite having a paper that said I had been examined by the doctor,
> ran the whole screen again. I flunked, so I'm scheduled for a driving
> test at the end of the month.

Dan Abel

2004-11-04, 7:15 pm

In article <K_cid.16498$Nc1.509@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>, "Reece"
<neweducation@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I do have a question, though--why are you taking a driving test at the end
> of the month if you failed the vision portion? Or are you retaking the
> vision portion?

It's a driving test. If you can only pass the vision screening with one
eye, you have to prove that you are able to drive that way.

> Also, could you not just get a prescription to correct your eye to pass the
> test?

I could. Or I could just wear the contact that I already have. But the
point is that I don't normally wear correction to drive, but my current
license has a restriction that I need corrective lenses to drive. I want
that restriction lifted, since I don't normally wear correction and my OD
says that correction won't help my vision, even though it would enable me
to pass the DMV test.

I have been told that if you drive without corrective lenses and your
license requires them, you can be cited. Also, if you get in an accident,
your insurance company can refuse to pay.

> "Dan Abel" <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:dabel-0311041353520001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu...
[vbcol=seagreen]

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
dabel@sonic.net

Dan Abel

2004-11-04, 7:15 pm

In article <jHdid.1763$Gm6.717@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Mike
Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring.com> wrote:

> "Reece" <neweducation@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>
> I didn't realize that CA requires 20/40 with each eye separately. In my
> state (AL) he would pass. According to your quote, he wouldn't.

I thought it was both eyes together. Either it's changed, or my memory is
faulty. Since I only get a new license in person every 12 years, it's
probably my memory.

>
> Because then he'll have to wear glasses to drive. IMO, this is easily a case
> where glasses increase risk rather than decrease it, but logic and the law
> are not always the same thing.
>
> It sounds like they're asking him to take a driving test in order to waive
> the vision requirement. If so, he should go for it.

And I am. I have an appointment at the end of the month.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
dabel@sonic.net

Dan Abel

2004-11-04, 7:15 pm

In article <fhijo05tu9jt8k174rvsnqu2qbjctk87f5@4ax.com>,
nospam@pacbell.net wrote:

> But bear in mind that you will need to do the same thing all over again next
> time you need to renew your license. You might prefer to get corrective
lenses
> to satisfy the DMV.

Not true. My wife went through this same thing six months ago (she has
amblyopia and is really blind in one eye), and she was assured by the DMV
that it was a one-time thing. I'm in California, and I'm sure it varies
by state.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
dabel@sonic.net

nospam@pacbell.net

2004-11-04, 7:15 pm

I hope you're right.

Ora

n Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:56:19 -0800, dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote:

>In article <fhijo05tu9jt8k174rvsnqu2qbjctk87f5@4ax.com>,
>nospam@pacbell.net wrote:
>
>lenses
>
>
>Not true. My wife went through this same thing six months ago (she has
>amblyopia and is really blind in one eye), and she was assured by the DMV
>that it was a one-time thing. I'm in California, and I'm sure it varies
>by state.

Dan Abel

2004-11-04, 7:15 pm

In article <6dbddb9.0411040843.12ea36d0@posting.google.com>,
otisbrown@pa.net (Otis Brown) wrote:

> The REQUIREMENT for the CA DMV is:
>
> Best Corrected in one eye of at least 20/40 with or without corrective
> lenses passes.

As Reece posted, the DMV site says differently:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#VISION

> Since you have 20/20 in the better eye, the DMV is applying a
> "requirement" that does not fit. I have posted the DMV
> requirements on my site, under DMV Standards so you can check this.

I looked at your site, and that information doesn't agree with the CA DMV site.

> I am VERY interested in the resolution of this effort, particularly
> since the eye doctor says you meet the DMV requirements.
>
> Let us know who wins this battle.

I'm going to win this battle, by taking the driving test and passing it.
The DMV has to give me an unrestricted license, based on the form from my
OD and my passing the driving test.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
dabel@sonic.net

The Real Bev

2004-11-04, 10:10 pm

nospam@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> I have the same problem - 20/20 left eye and can't read at all with right eye,
> even corrected. I took the driving test and it was a snap.
>
> Just be sure to do all the right things, use your signals, look behind you
> before you change lanes, etc.

And know where the controls that you never use are! My mom didn't know
where her emergency flasher was until we went through the controls
before the test and sure enough, the tester asked her.

--
Cheers,
Bev
***************************************************************
When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb.

LarryDoc

2004-11-05, 2:10 am

In article <dabel-0411041158550001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu>,
dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote:

> I have been told that if you drive without corrective lenses and your
> license requires them, you can be cited. Also, if you get in an accident,
> your insurance company can refuse to pay.

That is correct. Your are operating a motor vehicle illegally and hence
can be cites. Your insurance company requires that you drive within the
parameters of the motor vehicle code in the state in which you drive. If
not, they do not have to cover your claim. Further, you are responsible
for obeying the laws in whatever state you are driving, not just the one
in which are licensed.

--LB

The Real Bev

2004-11-05, 2:10 am

LarryDoc wrote:
>
> In article <dabel-0411041158550001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu>,
> dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote:
>
>
> That is correct. Your are operating a motor vehicle illegally and hence
> can be cites. Your insurance company requires that you drive within the
> parameters of the motor vehicle code in the state in which you drive. If
> not, they do not have to cover your claim. Further, you are responsible
> for obeying the laws in whatever state you are driving, not just the one
> in which are licensed.

I wonder how that will affect the geezer who was just indicted (criminal
negligence?) for mowing down all those people at the street market. Not
that his liability insurance will cover much of the damage he did... If
it has already paid off some of the victims, will the insurance company
demand that the money be returned?

--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Why put fault tolerance in the OS, when it's already built
into the User?" -- Steve Shaw, regarding Win95

Robert Redelmeier

2004-11-05, 11:09 am

The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> If it has already paid off some of the victims, will the
> insurance company demand that the money be returned?

Why do you think insurance companies are slow payers?

-- Robert

Otis Brown

2004-11-05, 11:09 am

Dear Dan,

You are correct. The more extensive CA review requires
that both eyes be 20/40 -- or better.

I have the listing of all 50 states. In general,
the listings require naked eye vision of 20/40 or better
with both eyes, and then specify the other eye (sometimes).

If a person wishes to know if he will pass the
DMV then he needs to know the exact requirements -- that
is why I asked the question.

I a number of "students-of-science" are working to
clear their vision to pass the DMV test, and so
it is apparent that they must personally verify
20/30 or better to be certain that they
will pass the 20/40 line of the DMV.

I always like to know the EXACT OBJECTIVE test
I am required to pass -- before I go take the test.

Thanks to both of you for the DMV clarifications.

Best,

Otis
Engineer

dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote in message news:<dabel-0411041304090001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu>...
> In article <6dbddb9.0411040843.12ea36d0@posting.google.com>,
> otisbrown@pa.net (Otis Brown) wrote:
>
>
>
>
> As Reece posted, the DMV site says differently:
>
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#VISION
>
>
>
>
> I looked at your site, and that information doesn't agree with the CA DMV site.
>
>
>
>
> I'm going to win this battle, by taking the driving test and passing it.
> The DMV has to give me an unrestricted license, based on the form from my
> OD and my passing the driving test.

LarryDoc

2004-11-05, 7:14 pm

I forgot to add:

The driver with a little less than 20/40 vision who is an excellent,
skilled defensive driver is likely far less of a threat to my personal
safety than the moron yapping on the cell phone while slugging down
his/her double moka cappacino doing 40 mph cruising through the school
zone as I walk my daughter to school.

--Larry

The Real Bev

2004-11-05, 10:08 pm

Robert Redelmeier wrote:
>
> The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>
> Why do you think insurance companies are slow payers?

AAA would have paid me pretty quickly for my car that their insured
wiped out through total stupidity, but I had to take them to small
claims court for several $hundred that they'd disallowed. They also
threw in something for pain and suffering, which was a nice surprise.

--
Cheers,
Bev
666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
"I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces
and join their hellish crusade." -- Clarice

Robert Redelmeier

2004-11-09, 11:09 am

Reece

2004-11-09, 7:12 pm

Mike Tyner

2004-11-09, 7:12 pm

Dan Abel

2004-11-10, 4:09 am

Dan Abel

2004-11-10, 4:09 am

nospam@pacbell.net

2004-11-10, 4:09 am

The Real Bev

2004-11-10, 4:09 am

The Real Bev

2004-11-10, 4:09 am

LarryDoc

2004-11-10, 4:09 am