|
Home > Archive > Radiology > June 2006 > Strange "Healing" Following Brain MR: Teaching Hospitals?
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Strange "Healing" Following Brain MR: Teaching Hospitals?
|
|
| violetvache@yahoo.com 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| I would like to know if anyone on this group can refer me to any
clinical trial, teaching hospital, or medical center where the ability
to "cure" near syncope and severe depression follows magnetic resonance
imaging.
I resisted a MRI for four years because of a bad experience at a
cramped unvented testing center; I am sure for that reason the effect
of a "cure"--which lasts about ten-twelve hours, and then unfortunately
fades--is not a placebo. Although a vegetarian, I don't know much and
have experimented not at all in holistic healing. I never used a
magnet for anything except to put baby pictures on my refrigerator.
But the affect on my syncope (or vertigo, lightheadedness, etc.) and
depression is so very marked, that now, following my second follow-up
imaging, I can't afford *not* to pursue MRI not as a diagnostic
technique but as an actual cure.
Any posts or email is greatly welcome. Thank you.
| |
|
| violetvache@yahoo.com wrote:
> I would like to know if anyone on this group can refer me to any
> clinical trial, teaching hospital, or medical center where the ability
> to "cure" near syncope and severe depression follows magnetic resonance
> imaging.
>
> I resisted a MRI for four years because of a bad experience at a
> cramped unvented testing center; I am sure for that reason the effect
> of a "cure"--which lasts about ten-twelve hours, and then unfortunately
> fades--is not a placebo. Although a vegetarian, I don't know much and
> have experimented not at all in holistic healing. I never used a
> magnet for anything except to put baby pictures on my refrigerator.
>
> But the affect on my syncope (or vertigo, lightheadedness, etc.) and
> depression is so very marked, that now, following my second follow-up
> imaging, I can't afford *not* to pursue MRI not as a diagnostic
> technique but as an actual cure.
>
> Any posts or email is greatly welcome. Thank you.
Try acupuncture.
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| On 5/13/06 4:26 PM, in article 47qdndOiQvin9vvZnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Cindy" <cindy15464973@att.net> wrote:
> violetvache@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Try acupuncture.
You are seeking disappointment, quackery, and, a much lighter wallet! I
speak as a physicist, not a physician. Magnetic effects on biochemistry are
tiny. Rapid changes in magnetic field might induce sufficient potential
difference to affect nerve firings, but as far as I know, that is about all
you can expect. MRI works by nudging protons in atomic nuclei. The
consequent extremely low energy radio frequency radiation in the form of
radio waves gets picked up with very sensitive equipment. This nudging of
protons does not couple into chemistry.
If you get a cure, it is likely that you suffer a psychiatric disease rather
than a somatic disease.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
|
| Salmon Egg wrote:
>
>
> You are seeking disappointment, quackery, and, a much lighter wallet! I
> speak as a physicist, not a physician. Magnetic effects on biochemistry are
> tiny. Rapid changes in magnetic field might induce sufficient potential
> difference to affect nerve firings, but as far as I know, that is about all
> you can expect. MRI works by nudging protons in atomic nuclei. The
> consequent extremely low energy radio frequency radiation in the form of
> radio waves gets picked up with very sensitive equipment. This nudging of
> protons does not couple into chemistry.
>
> If you get a cure, it is likely that you suffer a psychiatric disease rather
> than a somatic disease.
You go for what you want. I like acupuncture.
| |
| violetvache@yahoo.com 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| Salmon Egg wrote:
> MRI works by nudging protons in atomic nuclei. The
> consequent extremely low energy radio frequency radiation in the form of
> radio waves gets picked up with very sensitive equipment. This nudging of
> protons does not couple into chemistry.
>
> If you get a cure, it is likely that you suffer a psychiatric disease rather
> than a somatic disease.
I am certainly not denying my depression is exacerbated by the syncope
whose severity increases as I age (I'm 49). Maybe I should add I have
nonspecific scattered lesions.
In any event, your kind but ultimately dismissive response is most
likely what I'll experience from others, which is too bad. The
interval of respite I get after a MRI is not "imagining from imaging."
It absolutely is not, because it 1) wasn't anticipated or hoped for; 2)
took me by surprise; and 3) wasn't replicated by sticking magnets on my
head or chanting magic phrases or waiting for a full moon  .
Thank you anyway, and also the acupuncture patient or therapist, for a
response.
| |
|
| violetvache@yahoo.com wrote:
> Thank you anyway, and also the acupuncture patient or therapist, for a
> response.
I recommended you acupuncture because my acupuncture doctor had told me
that acupuncture was effective on depression, obesity, carpal tunnel
syndrome, back pain related with helniated disks, and so on. However,
just one session won't help. You need to have certain numbers of
therapy sessions. I had an MRI on my lower back due to my leg pain.
The disk between L5 and S1 is bulging and irritating my sciatic nerve.
My neurologist recommended me micordisectomy, but I said "No, I don't
want to have a surgery!" I had about 12 therapy sessions at acupuncture
clinic with a Korean doctor. I am getting much better.
Acupuncture relaxes you physically and mentally. I've heard that it
stimulates the nerve to produce some chemicals like morphine. But it's
all natural. It makes you feel drunk. I'll bet you like it. Try one.
| |
| Imabug 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| You will want to do a search on transcranial magnetic stimulation
(TMS). There is a fairly good body of research studying it as a
treatment for depression (and other things). The hospital I work at
has people doing a lot of work in this area.
| |
|
|
| Salmon Egg 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| On 5/15/06 6:34 AM, in article
1147700054.322362.313980@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Imabug"
<eugenemah@gmail.com> wrote:
> I forgot to include the link
>
> http://www.musc.edu/fnrd/tms.html
>
I will read the SCIAM article later.
It is interesting to note that they talk about pulsed magnetic fields. If
so, is there any indication that any benefit arises from the magnetic field?
Pending further reading, my guess would be that it is the electric fields
induce by the RATE OF CHANGE of the magnetic field is what couples to
tissue. Is there any indication that the effect will differ from ECT, shock
treatment?
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| violetvache@yahoo.com 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| Imabug wrote:
> You will want to do a search on transcranial magnetic stimulation
> (TMS). There is a fairly good body of research studying it as a
> treatment for depression (and other things). The hospital I work at
> has people doing a lot of work in this area.
I can't thank you enough for this response. I feel like leaving home
on a pilgrimage and a sign that says Will Work for Transcranial
Magnetic Stimulation (!).
(Cindy, thank you greatly for the good supportive words and the
information about acupuncture; but since this specific phenomenon, of
being in the MRI "tube," has had such an unanticipated affect, for the
time being I'm going to pursue this.)
Thanks very much to all.
| |
| violetvache@yahoo.com 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> It is interesting to note that they talk about pulsed magnetic fields. If
> so, is there any indication that any benefit arises from the magnetic field?
> Pending further reading, my guess would be that it is the electric fields
> induce by the RATE OF CHANGE of the magnetic field is what couples to
> tissue. Is there any indication that the effect will differ from ECT, shock
> treatment?
I asked this specific question of the radiologist who read my MRIs. He
said, interestingly and immediately, No (which led me to wonder why he
could be so certain of this if he had never been approached by a
patient with this affect). He said it was merely "the big magnets."
However, at the risk of sound as stupid as I surely am, I concluded the
rate of change was somehow like a centrifuge for the nonspecific
scattered lesions (which my neurologist believes are related to high
cholesterol) and that the rate of change somehow pulled "bad metals"
loose from my arteries and capilleries.
Please don't laugh out loud.
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| On 5/15/06 5:49 PM, in article
1147740581.823322.59890@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"violetvache@yahoo.com" <violetvache@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I asked this specific question of the radiologist who read my MRIs. He
> said, interestingly and immediately, No (which led me to wonder why he
> could be so certain of this if he had never been approached by a
> patient with this affect). He said it was merely "the big magnets."
> However, at the risk of sound as stupid as I surely am, I concluded the
> rate of change was somehow like a centrifuge for the nonspecific
> scattered lesions (which my neurologist believes are related to high
> cholesterol) and that the rate of change somehow pulled "bad metals"
> loose from my arteries and capilleries.
I am not laughing. I am shaking my head in disbelief.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| violetvache@yahoo.com 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> I am not laughing. I am shaking my head in disbelief.
As well you might. I deferred posting for over six months despite the
blessed relief I got, because I knew I'd sound like something from Neil
Diamond's Traveling Salvation Show. I would be very tempted to know,
however, how a physicist--not a physician--might explain the affects
the MRI has on me (and it would be so nice if a physicist would put him
or herself in the shoes of someone who has these worsening bouts of
"head pressure," apparently caused by the scattered lesions).
One fifteen-minute session in the MRI machine, and, boom, it's like I
have a new head. Pretty sad, actually, rather than funny.
| |
| Imabug 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| I'm not close enough to the field to know the mechanisms behind what
makes TMS work (my interests lie in a different area), but searching
for 'transcranial magnetic stimulation' in Medline
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi) will yield a whole
library full of papers on the subject. Limiting the search to review
articles should more informative background articles.
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| On 5/16/06 5:07 AM, in article
1147781266.470820.86720@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,
"violetvache@yahoo.com" <violetvache@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> As well you might. I deferred posting for over six months despite the
> blessed relief I got, because I knew I'd sound like something from Neil
> Diamond's Traveling Salvation Show. I would be very tempted to know,
> however, how a physicist--not a physician--might explain the affects
> the MRI has on me (and it would be so nice if a physicist would put him
> or herself in the shoes of someone who has these worsening bouts of
> "head pressure," apparently caused by the scattered lesions).
>
> One fifteen-minute session in the MRI machine, and, boom, it's like I
> have a new head. Pretty sad, actually, rather than funny.
>
Good question. I have my own health problems. In any event, biology has to
be in accord with the laws of physics and chemistry. These laws are not
subject to legislation.
My conclusion arises from magnetic fields having little effect on chemical
processes. I can think of only one biological effect of magnetic fields not
associated with the electric field resulting from CHANGING magnetic field
strength. That effect has to do with the orientation of animals such as
homing pigeons and bacteria. These use magnetite crystals as magnetic
compasses.
Physicians would not be held in high esteem if most maladies did not clear
up naturally. The popularity of homeopathy lingers from the 19th century
still lingers because homeopaths did not do much. In contrast, a main line
physician was much more likely to do harm because of their activist nature.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| violetvache@yahoo.com 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| Salmon Egg wrote:
> "violetvache@yahoo.com" <violetvache@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Good question. I have my own health problems. In any event, biology has to
> be in accord with the laws of physics and chemistry. These laws are not
> subject to legislation.
>
> My conclusion arises from magnetic fields having little effect on chemical
> processes. I can think of only one biological effect of magnetic fields not
> associated with the electric field resulting from CHANGING magnetic field
> strength. That effect has to do with the orientation of animals such as
> homing pigeons and bacteria. These use magnetite crystals as magnetic
> compasses.
>
> Physicians would not be held in high esteem if most maladies did not clear
> up naturally. The popularity of homeopathy lingers from the 19th century
> still lingers because homeopaths did not do much. In contrast, a main line
> physician was much more likely to do harm because of their activist nature.
I spoke yesterday with the lead researcher of a Transcranial Magnetic
Stimulation trial at Columbia University. He said FDA approval is
months away. All I can tell you is that homeopathic, allopathic, or
chicken soup, all therapy truly is relative. As a physicist, you can
appreciate relativity, can't you?
But it would be interesting, if your health problems ever include
anything that makes you even slightly vertiginous, if you "try" a MRI
and see if it helps you through this nightmare. It really helps me;
and now I can understand exactly how bad the parents of children who
need an uninsured operation feel: I don't think TMS will ever be
covered by typical insurance companies.
| |
| Ray Laughton 2006-06-04, 9:22 am |
| Cindy <cindy15464973@att.net> wrote:
> violetvache@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> I recommended you acupuncture because my acupuncture doctor had told me
> that acupuncture was effective on depression, obesity, carpal tunnel
> syndrome, back pain related with herniated disks, and so on. However,
> just one session won't help. You need to have certain numbers of
> therapy sessions. I had an MRI on my lower back due to my leg pain.
> The disk between L5 and S1 is bulging and irritating my sciatic nerve.
> My neurologist recommended me microdiscectomy, but I said "No, I don't
> want to have a surgery!" I had about 12 therapy sessions at acupuncture
> clinic with a Korean doctor. I am getting much better.
Lose weight and your back problems usually solve themselves..
> Acupuncture relaxes you physically and mentally. I've heard that it
> stimulates the nerve to produce some chemicals like morphine. But it's
> all natural. It makes you feel drunk. I'll bet you like it. Try one.
Most people dont get high on acupuncture..
RL
|
| |
|
|