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Home > Archive > Prostate > June 2005 > Two years since PVP
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Two years since PVP
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| Had my 2 yr post PVP check up yesterday, as part of the Laserscope KTP (now
green light) 80W laser study. Still have retro, and have resigned myself to
that's the way it's going to be, but at 75 guess I should be happy just to
be able to ejaculate, wherever it goes. Everything still working fine,
flow rate, max 20.4 mL/sec, avg 14.2 mL/sec with a total volume of 365 mL.
Pre PVP numbers were 6 mL/sec, 2.5 to 3 mL/sec and 175 mL respectively.
Less than 25 mL retention., pre PVP 40 %. The only poor news is the
prostate has grown to 49 gms., 75 gms before PVP. Was 33 gms 1 month after
the PVP. Still get up only 1 night in 3 or 4 to urinate, before PVP 2 to 3
times a night. Rarely have an urgency to go, except when I forget to go
before putting my hands in warm to hot water. Still can't figure that one
out.
While I was there I talked to the woman who is the research study
administrator for McGuire Veterans Hospital, Richmond, VA. She told me that
of the 32 people still in the study, most of them now more than one year
post PVP, 27 are well pleased with the results and 5 were very displeased.
Originally there were 70 in the study who had PVP done. About 55 were very
pleased and 15 very displeased. She said this is only study in the 5 years
she has been the research administrator, where most of the participants are
at one end or the other of the spectrum, with none at or towards the middle.
She said in most of the studies the people are spread over the entire range,
with most in the range between somewhat pleased to somewhat displeased.
Not sure how those numbers compare to this newsgroup, but seems to be in the
ballpark. What amazes me is the fact that such a small number in the
McGuire study could be so close to this group.
Jack
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| Mr. B 2005-06-10, 11:53 am |
| Jack,
Thanks so much for the update. Glad to hear you're still doing so well.
Mr. B
"Jack" <jrcomer@verizon.net> wrote in message news:Cnhqe.5$tY4.1@trnddc06...
> Had my 2 yr post PVP check up yesterday, as part of the Laserscope KTP
> (now green light) 80W laser study. Still have retro, and have resigned
> myself to that's the way it's going to be, but at 75 guess I should be
> happy just to be able to ejaculate, wherever it goes. Everything still
> working fine, flow rate, max 20.4 mL/sec, avg 14.2 mL/sec with a total
> volume of 365 mL. Pre PVP numbers were 6 mL/sec, 2.5 to 3 mL/sec and 175
> mL respectively. Less than 25 mL retention., pre PVP 40 %. The only poor
> news is the prostate has grown to 49 gms., 75 gms before PVP. Was 33 gms
> 1 month after the PVP. Still get up only 1 night in 3 or 4 to urinate,
> before PVP 2 to 3 times a night. Rarely have an urgency to go, except
> when I forget to go before putting my hands in warm to hot water. Still
> can't figure that one out.
>
> While I was there I talked to the woman who is the research study
> administrator for McGuire Veterans Hospital, Richmond, VA. She told me
> that of the 32 people still in the study, most of them now more than one
> year post PVP, 27 are well pleased with the results and 5 were very
> displeased. Originally there were 70 in the study who had PVP done. About
> 55 were very pleased and 15 very displeased. She said this is only study
> in the 5 years she has been the research administrator, where most of the
> participants are at one end or the other of the spectrum, with none at or
> towards the middle. She said in most of the studies the people are spread
> over the entire range, with most in the range between somewhat pleased to
> somewhat displeased.
>
> Not sure how those numbers compare to this newsgroup, but seems to be in
> the ballpark. What amazes me is the fact that such a small number in the
> McGuire study could be so close to this group.
>
> Jack
>
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| outlier48 2005-06-10, 5:57 pm |
|
Jack wrote:
> Had my 2 yr post PVP check up yesterday, as part of the Laserscope KTP (now
> green light) 80W laser study. Still have retro, and have resigned myself to
> that's the way it's going to be, but at 75 guess I should be happy just to
> be able to ejaculate, wherever it goes. Everything still working fine,
> flow rate, max 20.4 mL/sec, avg 14.2 mL/sec with a total volume of 365 mL.
> Pre PVP numbers were 6 mL/sec, 2.5 to 3 mL/sec and 175 mL respectively.
> Less than 25 mL retention., pre PVP 40 %. The only poor news is the
> prostate has grown to 49 gms., 75 gms before PVP. Was 33 gms 1 month after
> the PVP. Still get up only 1 night in 3 or 4 to urinate, before PVP 2 to 3
> times a night. Rarely have an urgency to go, except when I forget to go
> before putting my hands in warm to hot water. Still can't figure that one
> out.
>
> While I was there I talked to the woman who is the research study
> administrator for McGuire Veterans Hospital, Richmond, VA. She told me that
> of the 32 people still in the study, most of them now more than one year
> post PVP, 27 are well pleased with the results and 5 were very displeased.
> Originally there were 70 in the study who had PVP done. About 55 were very
> pleased and 15 very displeased. She said this is only study in the 5 years
> she has been the research administrator, where most of the participants are
> at one end or the other of the spectrum, with none at or towards the middle.
> She said in most of the studies the people are spread over the entire range,
> with most in the range between somewhat pleased to somewhat displeased.
>
> Not sure how those numbers compare to this newsgroup, but seems to be in the
> ballpark. What amazes me is the fact that such a small number in the
> McGuire study could be so close to this group.
>
> Jack
Jack,
Congratulations on the success of your surgery!
I have been following this group closely as I have suffered from BPH
and its related symptoms for a few years. As my situation has gotten
worse I have resigned myself to the need for treatment. The internet
offers a great means of gathering information in order to make an
informed decision, so I began my research on the web. While I have
found the same general results in terms of quality of outcomes, I
realize there are many factors that must be considered that could be
hidden in these numbers.
Here is a brief outline of my situation. Through medication and
supplementation my prostate has shrunk by 1/3 in the past 8 months -
from 108 g to 72 g measured by TRUS. I am now a candidate for PVP
(i.e. I am below the 80 g threshhold that my urologist is comfortable
dealing with. And, fortunately, there is no median lobe growth into
the bladder. Furthermore, my urologist teaches the PVP procedure to
other urologists, and, he is at UCLA, one of the leading medical
centers for dealing with urological issues. I still suffer from
significant post void retention. I am 56 years old and in generally
good health.
So, how would I fit into the results of the studies? I will not know
until after the surgery, but my informed opinion is that I will be in
the very satisfied group. My age, general good health, choice of an
highly qualified urologist/surgeon who teaches the PVP procedure, size
of prostate, and the lack of any median lobe protrusion into the
bladder all point to a high likelihood of a very positive outcome. I
may be wrong, but I would guess that those men who have not had
satisfactory outcomes probably had one or more areas noted above that
were not in their favor. Challenges with any one of these factors
(health, age, prostate size, median lobe growth, skill of the surgeon,
etc.) could potentially reduce the chance of a very positive outcome.
Amd, if someone had challenges in more than one factor, then I would
guess the probability of a negative outcome would increase.
The bottom line is that we each need to dig a bit deeper than the
surface statistics and try as best we can to determine if the factors
that affect the outcome of a particular procedure weigh in our favor.
Outlier48
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| forlorn hope 2005-06-10, 5:57 pm |
| "outlier48" <outlier48@earthlink.net> wrote in message > I have been
following this group closely as My age, general good health, choice of an
> highly qualified urologist/surgeon who teaches the PVP procedure, size
> of prostate, and the lack of any median lobe protrusion into the
> bladder all point to a high likelihood of a very positive outcome.
Just curious, why should median lobe protusion into the bladder be contra to
satisfactory outcome. Yes, it's my problem and I have my PVP next Wednesday
15th, but I haven't read of any problem with MLP other than almost certain
retro, which is no big deal. (I have that anyway with Flomax)
By the way I've just returned from a holiday in Crete and I was surprised to
see an enormous billboard on the way to Chania airport, advertising
'Lazerline'. The advert was in Greek of course, but the photos of an
initially sad, then delighted, middle aged man confirmed what the advert was
for. I took it as a good omen ...........
Huw
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"outlier48" <outlier48@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1118429861.503535.5240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jack,
>
> Congratulations on the success of your surgery!
>
> I have been following this group closely as I have suffered from BPH
> and its related symptoms for a few years. As my situation has gotten
> worse I have resigned myself to the need for treatment. The internet
> offers a great means of gathering information in order to make an
> informed decision, so I began my research on the web. While I have
> found the same general results in terms of quality of outcomes, I
> realize there are many factors that must be considered that could be
> hidden in these numbers.
>
> Here is a brief outline of my situation. Through medication and
> supplementation my prostate has shrunk by 1/3 in the past 8 months -
> from 108 g to 72 g measured by TRUS. I am now a candidate for PVP
> (i.e. I am below the 80 g threshhold that my urologist is comfortable
> dealing with. And, fortunately, there is no median lobe growth into
> the bladder. Furthermore, my urologist teaches the PVP procedure to
> other urologists, and, he is at UCLA, one of the leading medical
> centers for dealing with urological issues. I still suffer from
> significant post void retention. I am 56 years old and in generally
> good health.
>
> So, how would I fit into the results of the studies? I will not know
> until after the surgery, but my informed opinion is that I will be in
> the very satisfied group. My age, general good health, choice of an
> highly qualified urologist/surgeon who teaches the PVP procedure, size
> of prostate, and the lack of any median lobe protrusion into the
> bladder all point to a high likelihood of a very positive outcome. I
> may be wrong, but I would guess that those men who have not had
> satisfactory outcomes probably had one or more areas noted above that
> were not in their favor. Challenges with any one of these factors
> (health, age, prostate size, median lobe growth, skill of the surgeon,
> etc.) could potentially reduce the chance of a very positive outcome.
> Amd, if someone had challenges in more than one factor, then I would
> guess the probability of a negative outcome would increase.
>
> The bottom line is that we each need to dig a bit deeper than the
> surface statistics and try as best we can to determine if the factors
> that affect the outcome of a particular procedure weigh in our favor.
>
> Outlier48
Hi Outlier48,
I like you waited until I got sick and tired of having to put up with my
condition, The urgency to where I wanted to know every rest stop on I-95, 85
and 70. (the three routes I traveled most) Having to get up 2 to 3 times a
night, and after doing my research decided that a PVP was the route to go
for me. I had a large median lobe up into the bladder neck, and was told
there was a 60 to 70% chance of retro before the surgery. But two uros told
me it was 95 to 98% with a TURP. Being 73 at the at the time and my wife
saying go for it, "hey for me no mess no fuss", I did.
If your uro is Dr.Robert Reiter, as the saying goes your in good hands. I
also understand that Dr. Jacob Raifer, also at UCLA, is no slouch either
when it comes to the green light laser.
Your list of challenges sure fits, but if you think about it, minus the
specifics of the prostate, it would fit for just about any surgery. Good
luck, but it sounds to me like you are in good hands yours and the uros. My
advice is, when you say your quality of life stinks, then go for the PVP. I
would say your chances of retro from what you said are less than 25% and
even if you do have retro the chances are it will correct itself with 9
months.
Jack
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"forlorn hope" <forlorn.hope@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:5Xlqe.13762$cN2.8311@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> "outlier48" <outlier48@earthlink.net> wrote in message > I have been
> following this group closely as My age, general good health, choice of an
>
> Just curious, why should median lobe protusion into the bladder be contra
> to
> satisfactory outcome. Yes, it's my problem and I have my PVP next
> Wednesday
> 15th, but I haven't read of any problem with MLP other than almost certain
> retro, which is no big deal. (I have that anyway with Flomax)
Hi Huw
For you the retro is no big deal as it wasn't for me. But for many men it
is a big deal, either their age, or the fact the want to be able to have
children or maybe to them it's a loss of masculinity. Good luck next
Wednesday, let us know how things went.
Jack
| |
| forlorn hope 2005-06-11, 9:03 am |
| "Jack" <jrcomer@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Qppqe.185$yw4.136@trnddc09...
> For you the retro is no big deal as it wasn't for me. But for many men it
> is a big deal, either their age, or the fact the want to be able to have
> children or maybe to them it's a loss of masculinity. Good luck next
> Wednesday, let us know how things went.
A lot of the comments remind me of thirty years ago when vasectomies first
became popular.
I'm sure it's down to mental attitude rather than age - I'm 'only' 59.
I can't remember whether I mentioned this in an earlier
post but when I had my consultation for the PVP my Uro said that if you have
retro when you take alpha-blockers (Flomax etc) then you will almost
certainly have it after a PVP. He told me that I could expect retro but I
feel that is a small price to pay if it enables me to stop daily
self-catheterising and to come off Flomax.
Thanks for wishing me well.
Huw
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Huw,
Good luck on Wednesday! I'm sure you'll be glad when it's over. Let us
know how it went.
Did you ask Mr Muir if he does a biopsy during the procedure to rule
out cancer (as there is no tissue after pvp to test)? Do you know how
many pvp's he's done now? The NHS wheels are still turning slowly for
me but I may be following you later this year.
Magna
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| forlorn hope 2005-06-12, 8:53 am |
| "Magna" <magna149@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Did you ask Mr Muir if he
does a biopsy during the procedure to rule
> out cancer (as there is no tissue after pvp to test)? Do you know how
> many pvp's he's done now? The NHS wheels are still turning slowly for
> me but I may be following you later this year.
Thanks Magna. I didn't ask about biopsy, and he certainly didn't mention
it. I'll try and remember when I see him. Perhaps it would be possible at an
extra charge? He told me in April that he had done over 400 PVPs of which
around 100 had been for similar retention problems to mine.
I gave up on the NHS and raided my pension lump sum - I think it's worth
paying to get a PVP! The NHS are great in emergencies but not so good for
our sort of problem. In my area (Teesside) there are no plans to move on
from the traditional TURP and like a lot of posters here, I didn't want to
risk the possible side effects of impotence and incontinence. My local uro
was very understanding and has asked me to return in September for tests to
help with their own research into treatments.
Thanks for the good wishes and all being well I will post about my
experiences later in the week.
Huw
>
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| Derek F 2005-06-18, 6:22 pm |
|
"Magna" <magna149@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118559547.600495.161840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Huw,
>
> Good luck on Wednesday! I'm sure you'll be glad when it's over. Let us
> know how it went.
>
> Did you ask Mr Muir if he does a biopsy during the procedure to rule
> out cancer (as there is no tissue after pvp to test)? Do you know how
> many pvp's he's done now? The NHS wheels are still turning slowly for
> me but I may be following you later this year.
>
> Magna
>
Which hospital are you going to? I am now scheduled for Friday July 1st at
Newcastle's Freeman Hospital but have to check on June 30th that the bed is
still available due to any emergency admissions. I first asked to be
referred there about nine months ago.
Derek.
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