Prostate - First Anniversary PVP

Author

First Anniversary PVP

Terry

2004-10-14, 7:13 pm

It's been 12 months since my PVP and I'm sorry to report that
the results have been very disappointing for me. Except for newfound
retro and
increased urgency and control problems, my symptoms are exactly the
same as before the procedure. My uro scratches his head and mumbles
something about
how it must be lower back nerve problems that account for the lack of
improvement. He also says that scar tissue may be a factor.
When I described the PVP as a failure, he said with a straight face
that it was not a failure, just that something else must be causing my
woes. I'm still pondering this.

I don't mean this to be a downer for guys looking to PVP as a solution
to their problems. I just think it's important to know that PVP may
not work for all.
I'm happy for all the guys who are reporting success with the
procedure and wish all the great posters on this board the best of
luck.

Nelson

2004-10-14, 7:13 pm

On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:38:39 -0400, Terry wrote
(in article <c068493.0410091538.4f71116b@posting.google.com> ):

> It's been 12 months since my PVP and I'm sorry to report that the
> results have been very disappointing for me. Except for newfound
> retro and increased urgency and control problems, my symptoms are
> exactly the same as before the procedure. My uro scratches his head
> and mumbles something about how it must be lower back nerve problems
> that account for the lack of improvement. He also says that scar
> tissue may be a factor. When I described the PVP as a failure, he
> said with a straight face that it was not a failure, just that
> something else must be causing my woes. I'm still pondering this.
>
> I don't mean this to be a downer for guys looking to PVP as a
> solution to their problems. I just think it's important to know
> that PVP may not work for all. I'm happy for all the guys who are
> reporting success with the procedure and wish all the great posters
> on this board the best of luck.

Sorry to hear this. Especially since I am considering getting one
myself. I can also understand what your uro is saying about the PVP
being a success... if the problem was being caused by something else or
had multiple causes, ablating prostate tissue alone isn't going to fix
it. Unfortunately, if it is not physical obstruction due to an
enlarged prostate, I don't think they usually have a clue what is
causing it. In addition, I don't think they have a clue, in general,
as to what causes the enlarged prostate in the first place.

Do you have any reason to believe that a TURP would have been more
successful? Seems to me that it is the surgery that failed, not the
particular method.

Uro's are surgeons and are biased to cut... when you're a hammer,
everything looks like a nail :-) PVP, after all, is just cutting away
using a laser rather than a scalpel.

My suspicion is that in the final analysis we will ultimately find that
prostate enlargement is most commonly caused by a resistant pathogen
just as was found for stomach ulcers after years of the dogma that they
were caused by stress or eating certain foods.

What kinds of tests did you have prior to the surgery to ascertain that
prostate was the culprit and the sole culprit?

In my case, for example, the problem presents as a long history of a
weak stream and frequency which is especially troubling at night.
However, overlayed on that are flare-ups where I can't void at all and,
on the other hand, comparable periods where the symptoms are
dramatically reduced. Such variations are inconsistent, in my opinion,
with a one-explanation cause. This coupled with the fact that DRE's
are continually unremarkable. A final curiosity is that my wife has
similar problems and a prostate has never shown up on any of her X-Rays
:-)

I'm afraid the truth is that, in my experience at least, most
interaction with doctors is hit or miss and mostly miss. This is
particularly frustrating because of the level of expectation we have
going in, preconditioned by the media and the propaganda put about by
the doctors themselves. They have been elevated to "priest" status in
our society and are assumed to have knowledge and healing powers far
beyond that which any rational assessment of the results would justify.
I envision the whole medical-hospital-insurance complex as a giant
money-sucking vampire which feeds on people who are sick, sucks the
blood out of them, and then spits out their dry corpses... just so you
know where I am coming from ;-)

--
Nelson

Patrick Annette

2004-10-16, 11:08 am

Terry wrote:
> It's been 12 months since my PVP and I'm sorry to report that
> the results have been very disappointing for me. Except for newfound
> retro and
> increased urgency and control problems, my symptoms are exactly the
> same as before the procedure. My uro scratches his head and mumbles
> something about
> how it must be lower back nerve problems that account for the lack of
> improvement. He also says that scar tissue may be a factor.
> When I described the PVP as a failure, he said with a straight face
> that it was not a failure, just that something else must be causing my
> woes. I'm still pondering this.
>
> I don't mean this to be a downer for guys looking to PVP as a solution
> to their problems. I just think it's important to know that PVP may
> not work for all.
> I'm happy for all the guys who are reporting success with the
> procedure and wish all the great posters on this board the best of
> luck.

I had a TURP in 1989, and it initially seemed very effective. After the
clot dissolved, the improvement greatly diminished. I got by until
early this year, when I gave up on saw palmetto et al, and had a PVP
about seven months ago. The result was not great, but moderately good
until recently, with only the infrequent bad day, and I was satisfied
with the level of improvement. Now I'm almost back to pre-operative
conditions. I still have a few Flomax capsules and am taking one every
few days, but they don't help much. I'm still not having to get up as
often at night, so the improvement hasn't completely disappeared; but
the stream is usually very slow, and frequency has increased during the
day.

I think that for at least some of us, there are other factors involved,
like food sensitivities and I'm trying to eliminate things that may be
involved. I've had no alcohol in several weeks, but that doesn't seem
to have helped. I usually had one or two glasses of wine most days.
Coffee will be next, but that's going to be much harder for me.

When I saw my urologist a few months ago and expressed some
disappointment over the results, he had no real explanation or
suggestions, other than to come back and see him in six months. Like
Terry, I agree that my results shouldn't discourage others from having a
PVP. In my case I wonder if there shouldn't have been more tests before
the surgery <shrug>. Life goes on and I will cope, as I did after the
TURP.

Patrick in St Petersburg

Michael Balarama

2004-10-16, 10:08 pm

Try cutting out dairy,coffee--
Michael
"Patrick Annette" <noway@nospm.con> wrote in message
news:Ciacd.3256$232.1282@trnddc09...
> Terry wrote:
>
> I had a TURP in 1989, and it initially seemed very effective. After the
> clot dissolved, the improvement greatly diminished. I got by until
> early this year, when I gave up on saw palmetto et al, and had a PVP
> about seven months ago. The result was not great, but moderately good
> until recently, with only the infrequent bad day, and I was satisfied
> with the level of improvement. Now I'm almost back to pre-operative
> conditions. I still have a few Flomax capsules and am taking one every
> few days, but they don't help much. I'm still not having to get up as
> often at night, so the improvement hasn't completely disappeared; but
> the stream is usually very slow, and frequency has increased during the
> day.
>
> I think that for at least some of us, there are other factors involved,
> like food sensitivities and I'm trying to eliminate things that may be
> involved. I've had no alcohol in several weeks, but that doesn't seem
> to have helped. I usually had one or two glasses of wine most days.
> Coffee will be next, but that's going to be much harder for me.
>
> When I saw my urologist a few months ago and expressed some
> disappointment over the results, he had no real explanation or
> suggestions, other than to come back and see him in six months. Like
> Terry, I agree that my results shouldn't discourage others from having a
> PVP. In my case I wonder if there shouldn't have been more tests before
> the surgery <shrug>. Life goes on and I will cope, as I did after the
> TURP.
>
> Patrick in St Petersburg

riserman@optonline.net

2004-10-17, 7:11 pm

Hi Terry,

There are probably a number of reasons a TURP or PVP can fail. Poor
diagnosis and/or execution of the procedure immediately come to mind.
That leads to the recommendation that you consult a different,
independent Urologist for a second opinion. Among other possibilities is
prostatitis. That should be found or ruled out, too. Also, what is your
current PSA?

Good luck!

Bob

Terry wrote:
>
> It's been 12 months since my PVP and I'm sorry to report that
> the results have been very disappointing for me. Except for newfound
> retro and
> increased urgency and control problems, my symptoms are exactly the
> same as before the procedure. My uro scratches his head and mumbles
> something about
> how it must be lower back nerve problems that account for the lack of
> improvement. He also says that scar tissue may be a factor.
> When I described the PVP as a failure, he said with a straight face
> that it was not a failure, just that something else must be causing my
> woes. I'm still pondering this.
>
> I don't mean this to be a downer for guys looking to PVP as a solution
> to their problems. I just think it's important to know that PVP may
> not work for all.
> I'm happy for all the guys who are reporting success with the
> procedure and wish all the great posters on this board the best of
> luck.

Spread deMocracy

2004-10-17, 7:11 pm

If your Uro found (by doing the blood work ups) that your DHT is well above
maximum, then did your uro tell you that your prostate will still keep on
growing? If yes, you would have been sent to an endo. What did the
endocrinologist tell you to do? OR...did they test for and rule out
prostatitis? If no Prostatitis, and DHT is well within normal range, then
might want to get blood glucose tests or hypertension checked out, too.
These are the only ideas I have to offer. So, very best of luck to you.

"Terry" <tmcd@hdtinfo.com> wrote in message
news:c068493.0410091538.4f71116b@posting.google.com...
> It's been 12 months since my PVP and I'm sorry to report that
> the results have been very disappointing for me. Except for newfound
> retro and
> increased urgency and control problems, my symptoms are exactly the
> same as before the procedure. My uro scratches his head and mumbles
> something about
> how it must be lower back nerve problems that account for the lack of
> improvement. He also says that scar tissue may be a factor.
> When I described the PVP as a failure, he said with a straight face
> that it was not a failure, just that something else must be causing my
> woes. I'm still pondering this.
>
> I don't mean this to be a downer for guys looking to PVP as a solution
> to their problems. I just think it's important to know that PVP may
> not work for all.
> I'm happy for all the guys who are reporting success with the
> procedure and wish all the great posters on this board the best of
> luck.

Terry

2004-10-19, 11:10 am

>Thanks to you guys for the advice. I'm scheduled to see my urologist
on Nov11 and will raise the questios some of you asked about DHT,
prostatitis, and blood glucose tests. I'll let you know how that comes
out. If I don't get some kind of reassurance, I'll take Bob's advice
and shop for a new uro. As for my stats, prior to my PVP my prostate
measured 25 grams, my PSA was 2.9 and steady, my bladder capacity was
372 ml. I'd had a cystoscopy, a cytology procedure, the urodynamic
flow tests, and some kind of blood workup. A recent PSA came in at
2.36. I have tried hytrin, flomax, detrol, and ditropan with
indifferent results. I haven't given up on coffee, but that's a hell
of a thing to contemplate for this old man. Patrick, I hope you'll
let me know if you manage to kick the habit and if things improve
thereafter.

By the way, I banged up my elbow a couple of days ago and took two
advil tablets for the pain at bedtime. Funny thing is, I was able to
sleep six hours without interruption. Then, last night I took one
tablet and slept for five hours straight. Now I know that it is utter
nonsense to think that there's any connection here, but I think it may
be necessary to see what happens tonight, just for the hell of it.
(Normally, I have to get up three times a night) What have I got to
lose?

Patrick Annette

2004-10-19, 7:20 pm

Terry wrote:

>
> on Nov11 and will raise the questios some of you asked about DHT,
> prostatitis, and blood glucose tests. I'll let you know how that comes
> out. If I don't get some kind of reassurance, I'll take Bob's advice
> and shop for a new uro. As for my stats, prior to my PVP my prostate
> measured 25 grams, my PSA was 2.9 and steady, my bladder capacity was
> 372 ml. I'd had a cystoscopy, a cytology procedure, the urodynamic
> flow tests, and some kind of blood workup. A recent PSA came in at
> 2.36. I have tried hytrin, flomax, detrol, and ditropan with
> indifferent results. I haven't given up on coffee, but that's a hell
> of a thing to contemplate for this old man. Patrick, I hope you'll
> let me know if you manage to kick the habit and if things improve
> thereafter.
>
> By the way, I banged up my elbow a couple of days ago and took two
> advil tablets for the pain at bedtime. Funny thing is, I was able to
> sleep six hours without interruption. Then, last night I took one
> tablet and slept for five hours straight. Now I know that it is utter
> nonsense to think that there's any connection here, but I think it may
> be necessary to see what happens tonight, just for the hell of it.
> (Normally, I have to get up three times a night) What have I got to
> lose?

Today was my first day without coffee. I almost never have headaches,
but today was bad. Even naproxen sodium barely took the edge off. I
was also sleepy and groggy, resulting in a long nap. The day was a
total waste. This seems clearly a case of withdrawal.

So far no change in the urinary symptoms, but that could take days. If
there's no improvement in a week, the trial is over for me. Even if the
symptoms improve, I may not be strong enough to avoid coffee. To
paraphrase Ben Franklin (he referred to beer) "Coffee is proof that God
loves us and wants us to be happy."

I've seen a few other references to NSAID drugs like advil helping with
prostate symptoms. If there is an effect, in my case it has been minor.

Patrick in St Pete

RVerDon

2004-10-20, 2:08 am

Prior to having a TURP in 1998, which was very successful by the way, I
found that aspirin at bedtime seemed to help somewhat with the frequency of
having to urinate during the night.

Don

>
> By the way, I banged up my elbow a couple of days ago and took two
> advil tablets for the pain at bedtime. Funny thing is, I was able to
> sleep six hours without interruption. Then, last night I took one
> tablet and slept for five hours straight. Now I know that it is utter
> nonsense to think that there's any connection here, but I think it may
> be necessary to see what happens tonight, just for the hell of it.
> (Normally, I have to get up three times a night) What have I got to
> lose?

gentry10@optonline.net

2004-10-21, 11:08 am

May I ask you in which state (if you do not want to specify the city)
you had this PVP done?

tmcd@hdtinfo.com (Terry) wrote in message news:<c068493.0410091538.4f71116b@posting.google.com>...
> It's been 12 months since my PVP and I'm sorry to report that
> the results have been very disappointing for me. Except for newfound
> retro and
> increased urgency and control problems, my symptoms are exactly the
> same as before the procedure. My uro scratches his head and mumbles
> something about
> how it must be lower back nerve problems that account for the lack of
> improvement. He also says that scar tissue may be a factor.
> When I described the PVP as a failure, he said with a straight face
> that it was not a failure, just that something else must be causing my
> woes. I'm still pondering this.
>
> I don't mean this to be a downer for guys looking to PVP as a solution
> to their problems. I just think it's important to know that PVP may
> not work for all.
> I'm happy for all the guys who are reporting success with the
> procedure and wish all the great posters on this board the best of
> luck.

Patrick Annette

2004-10-22, 2:08 am

Michael Balarama

2004-10-22, 7:12 pm

Dan Mids

2004-10-23, 7:10 pm

"RVerDon" <anynews@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<BaOdnTJY_4OrnuvcRVn-iA@comcast.com>...[vbcol=seagreen]
> Prior to having a TURP in 1998, which was very successful by the way, I
> found that aspirin at bedtime seemed to help somewhat with the frequency of
> having to urinate during the night.
>
> Don
>

Terry,

Advil slows down urine production by the kidneys for hours.
I use it before flying or before a long ride and for at least 6 hours
I forget all my BPH troubles.
Obviously it should not be used too often. I use it only about once a
month.

Dan.

riserman@optonline.net

2004-10-24, 2:09 am

Spread deMocracy

2004-10-24, 2:09 am

Terry

2004-10-25, 4:08 am

Terry

2004-10-25, 11:09 am

> Dan:

Thanks for your take on Advil. I'm continuing to have, at most, one
interruption per night. Last night I slept continuously for 7 1/2
hours.
I am also noticing a change in my morning routine, in which I have a
mug of coffee upon rising and then go for my walk. Usually I can't go
more that 30 minutes before urgency kicks in, but lately (i.e., since
taking the Advil at night), I'm good for an hour and a half. Evidence
is still scant, but it's piling up. I was happy to see that Advil
helps you on long flights, which I dread. I have a 5 hour trip to
Mexico coming up and am already nervous about it.

By the way, what is the downside of continued use of ibuprofen? I've
taken it off and on for years for various aches and pains without ill
affects that I know of.

Terry
> .

Patrick Annette

2004-10-26, 7:13 am

RVerDon

2004-10-26, 11:10 am

Derek F.

2004-10-26, 7:27 pm

"Dan Mids" <danmds@actcom.co.il> wrote in message
news:2254487b.0410231320.4626d9cd@posting.google.com...
> "RVerDon" <anynews@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<BaOdnTJY_4OrnuvcRVn-iA@comcast.com>...
>
> Terry,
>
> Advil slows down urine production by the kidneys for hours.
> I use it before flying or before a long ride and for at least 6 hours
> I forget all my BPH troubles.
> Obviously it should not be used too often. I use it only about once a
> month.
>
> Dan.
Be cautious
Derek.

Use with caution in

a.. Asthma or history of asthma

b.. Bleeding disorders

c.. Decreased heart function

d.. Decreased kidney function

e.. Decreased liver function

f.. Elderly people

g.. High blood pressure (hypertension)

h.. History of allergies

i.. History of diseases of the stomach or intestines

Patrick Annette

2004-10-28, 11:09 am

Patrick Annette wrote:

> Terry wrote:
>
>
>
> Today was my first day without coffee. I almost never have headaches,
> but today was bad. Even naproxen sodium barely took the edge off. I
> was also sleepy and groggy, resulting in a long nap. The day was a
> total waste. This seems clearly a case of withdrawal.
>
> So far no change in the urinary symptoms, but that could take days. If
> there's no improvement in a week, the trial is over for me. Even if the
> symptoms improve, I may not be strong enough to avoid coffee. To
> paraphrase Ben Franklin (he referred to beer) "Coffee is proof that God
> loves us and wants us to be happy."
>
> I've seen a few other references to NSAID drugs like advil helping with
> prostate symptoms. If there is an effect, in my case it has been minor.
>
> Patrick in St Pete

I don't know if any of this will be useful, but here's one man's
experience with eliminating alcohol and caffeine.

My symptoms have been frequency, weak flow and trouble starting,
interspersed with very free flow and no trouble starting; there seemed
to be no reason for either one. I also had very slight sensations of
discomfort in the general location of the prostate.

After several weeks of drinking no alcohol (I had been taking one or two
glasses of wine most evenings with dinner), I saw no improvement in the
urinary symptoms. I haven't missed the wine, so haven't resumed
consumption of it.

The cold turkey coffee withdrawal lasted about 5 days, with gradually
diminishing headaches and sleepiness. I had been drinking two cups of
strong coffee at breakfast each day. After a week there still seemed to
be no real improvement in the urinary symptoms, so I have resumed coffee
in the morning, although in lesser quantity.

I've had complete retrograde ejaculation since the PVP; until a few days
ago, that is! This muddies the water for my experiment, but I very much
doubt that coffee or alcohol were causing the retro.

My conclusion is that the healing is still going on 7 months after PVP.
The last time I saw my urologist, I mentioned that some on this news
group report changes many months after the surgery; he was quite
dismissive, but he isn't highly experienced with the procedure.

A clarification on the Advil (ibuprofen): I was assuming that Aleve
(naproxen sodium) would be the same, since they are both NSAIDs. I
generally use naproxen sodium because it last longer. Just the last few
days I had some hip pain and took ibuprofen instead of the usual
naproxen. I slept almost a full night without getting up, which is
unusual for me. Coincidence? Don't know...

Patrick in St Pete

Dan Mids

2004-10-29, 11:10 am

Terry

2004-10-29, 7:16 pm

Spread deMocracy

2004-10-30, 7:07 am

Patrick: I do hope and wish you are correct, that the healing process is
merely continuing and that you are getting back to normal. Just as a
precaution, though, take a look at your DHT numbers from your blood workup
that your urologist did just before your PVP. If your DHT were initially
high and if it remains high, (above 700), likely your prostate is
continuing to grow. High DHTs or even an increased sensitivity to DHTs is
what causes the prostate to grow...or so the most current theory goes. If
your DHT was greater than 700 then you might want to have another blood test
done again and determine if your DHT levels are continuing to increase. If
so, you might want to have a chat about getting referred to an
endocrinologist so you can head off another surgical intervention. Your
urologist will suggest it is not necessary, but will be at a loss to explain
why your DHTs are too high and will likely prescribe Proscar or Avodart to
control the DHT. If that works, you may be happy with that, and that may
take many months. So, after a course of Proscar or Avodart, I'd insist on
another blood test after about 2 months...to see if your DHT has dropped
sufficiently. If not then have that chat about seeing an endocrinologist.
An endocrinologist can diagnose what gland has crapped out that in turn is
causing high DHTs. Uros don't like talking about the actual cause...some
don't even know so hate to show their ignorance. An endo MIGHT be able to
prescribe a more effective medication to head off having to get back into
Alpha Blockers, DHT inhibitors or even another operation. This information
is merely offered in good faith and as something to keep in mind. ...I am
NOT a doctor, just someone who is disillusioned by the lethargy of today's
urologists when it comes to BPH.

"Patrick Annette" <noway@nospm.con> wrote in message
news:_28gd.6871$dW.4426@trnddc08...
> Patrick Annette wrote: .... I've had complete retrograde ejaculation
> since the PVP; until a few days ago, that is! ... My conclusion is that
> the healing is still going on 7 months after PVP. ..my urologist, ...was
> quite dismissive...,... Patrick in St Pete

Dan Mids

2004-10-30, 11:07 am

tmcd@hdtinfo.com (Terry) wrote in message news:<c068493.0410250557.67cdebf4@posting.google.com>...
>
> Thanks for your take on Advil. I'm continuing to have, at most, one
> interruption per night. Last night I slept continuously for 7 1/2
> hours.
> I am also noticing a change in my morning routine, in which I have a
> mug of coffee upon rising and then go for my walk. Usually I can't go
> more that 30 minutes before urgency kicks in, but lately (i.e., since
> taking the Advil at night), I'm good for an hour and a half. Evidence
> is still scant, but it's piling up. I was happy to see that Advil
> helps you on long flights, which I dread. I have a 5 hour trip to
> Mexico coming up and am already nervous about it.
>
> By the way, what is the downside of continued use of ibuprofen? I've
> taken it off and on for years for various aches and pains without ill
> affects that I know of.
>
> Terry

Terry, all I meant is that continued reduction of urine production can be dangerous.
I guess that this side effect is not common to all ibuprofen users.
Dan.[vbcol=seagreen]

Terry

2004-10-30, 7:09 pm

Derek,

My pharmacist agrees with your list of conditions, but he reminds me
that the other meds I've taken have nasty side effects also (i.e,
detrol, flomax, ditropan). And they don't do a thing for me. I'll
have to do a risk/reward study on this I guess. For the time being,
though, it is glorious to get a good night's sleep - - every night!

Thanks again for your help.

Terry

Jim W.

2004-10-30, 7:09 pm

Do you really think Advil reduces urine production rather than diminishing
the
bladder urgency via its pain reduction function? Just wondering. Jim W.

"Terry" <tmcd@hdtinfo.com> wrote in message
news:c068493.0410301210.641a273b@posting.google.com...
> Derek,
>
> My pharmacist agrees with your list of conditions, but he reminds me
> that the other meds I've taken have nasty side effects also (i.e,
> detrol, flomax, ditropan). And they don't do a thing for me. I'll
> have to do a risk/reward study on this I guess. For the time being,
> though, it is glorious to get a good night's sleep - - every night!
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
> Terry

Terry

2004-10-31, 11:08 am

Jim,

I can't be sure, but I suspect the effect is mainly on the bladder. I
have been watching my daily fluid intake and output carefully and both
measures seem to be unchanged, except for the timing. I have the urge
a couple more times in the daylight than before. I just take one 200mg
pill at bedtime, nothing during the day.

For all I know, the effect is all in my head and may not last. Until
then, I don't really care.

Terry

Dan Mids

2004-10-31, 7:11 pm

"Jim W." <vze27rdh@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<QsTgd.541$304.361@trndny06>...
> Do you really think Advil reduces urine production rather than diminishing
> the
> bladder urgency via its pain reduction function? Just wondering. Jim W.
>
>
I do. There is a remarkable reduction of the total quantity and not
just the frequency.
Dan.

Jim W.

2004-10-31, 7:11 pm

OK thanks. Jim W.

"Dan Mids" <danmds@actcom.co.il> wrote in message
news:2254487b.0410311205.2179c6c6@posting.google.com...
> "Jim W." <vze27rdh@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:<QsTgd.541$304.361@trndny06>...
> I do. There is a remarkable reduction of the total quantity and not
> just the frequency.
> Dan.

Terry

2004-11-01, 2:09 am

Jim W.

2004-11-01, 7:08 am

Spread deMocracy

2004-11-01, 11:09 am

Terry

2004-11-01, 11:09 am

Dan,

This remarkable reduction of the total quantity you speak of . . .
have you been using ibuprofen also? If so, why and for how long?

Terry

danmds@actcom.co.il (Dan Mids) wrote in message news:<2254487b.0410311205.2179c6c6@posting.google.com>...
> "Jim W." <vze27rdh@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<QsTgd.541$304.361@trndny06>...
> I do. There is a remarkable reduction of the total quantity and not
> just the frequency.
> Dan.

Terry

2004-11-02, 11:13 am

Derek F.

2004-11-02, 7:12 pm

Dan Mids

2004-11-04, 2:10 am

Jim W.

2004-11-04, 2:10 am

Derek F.

2004-11-05, 7:14 pm

"Terry" <tmcd@hdtinfo.com> wrote in message
news:c068493.0410301210.641a273b@posting.google.com...
> Derek,
>
> My pharmacist agrees with your list of conditions, but he reminds me
> that the other meds I've taken have nasty side effects also (i.e,
> detrol, flomax, ditropan). And they don't do a thing for me. I'll
> have to do a risk/reward study on this I guess. For the time being,
> though, it is glorious to get a good night's sleep - - every night!
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
> Terry
Flomax put my BP up to 21/110 in less than five days and my pulse up to 133
bpm.
Derek.