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Can "Burning" Pain Kill?
|
|
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Hi:
I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed
into a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax"
no matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around
my body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns.
Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
reactions, or hypovolemic shock, and that my environment was totally
sterile [free of infective agents], free of allergens [and other
irritants] and that the burns had no affect on my respiratory system at
all. In addition, let's say that the pain I experienced did not cause
hyperventilation and did not affect the respiratory system or immune
system at all and that I was totally conscious during this burning
procedure. Last but not least, lets say I am otherwise [other than the
burns and paralysis] totally healthy. What effects would the
excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous and circulatory
systems? Would those effects be fatal?
Due to the paralysis, I would obviously be unable to scream or flinch
no matter how much pain I am in.
Thanks,
Radium
| |
| Robert 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
|
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142135220.155422.137060@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
> speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed
> into a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax"
> no matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
> surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around
> my body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns.
> Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
> immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
> reactions, or hypovolemic shock, and that my environment was totally
> sterile [free of infective agents], free of allergens [and other
> irritants] and that the burns had no affect on my respiratory system at
> all. In addition, let's say that the pain I experienced did not cause
> hyperventilation and did not affect the respiratory system or immune
> system at all and that I was totally conscious during this burning
> procedure. Last but not least, lets say I am otherwise [other than the
> burns and paralysis] totally healthy. What effects would the
> excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous and circulatory
> systems? Would those effects be fatal?
>
> Due to the paralysis, I would obviously be unable to scream or flinch
> no matter how much pain I am in.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Radium
>
Ok it's time to see a shrink. Your fixation on burns and burning are
obvious. Leave Baptist churches alone or don't start any fires out there.
Run to a doctor now.
| |
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Robert wrote:
> Ok it's time to see a shrink. Your fixation on burns and burning are
> obvious. Leave Baptist churches alone or don't start any fires out there.
> Run to a doctor now.
Huh? I am asking a serious question. I have no application. I am just
in it for the science. I am interested in the science of it.
| |
| Manky Badger 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
|
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142136701.543724.245660@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Robert wrote:
>
> Huh? I am asking a serious question. I have no application. I am just
> in it for the science. I am interested in the science of it.
Why ?
Why this almost pathological fixation about asking burning -related
questions and then not liking the response you get ?
| |
| Mortimer Schnerd, RN 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Radium wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
> speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed
> into a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax"
> no matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
> surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around
> my body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns.
I wonder about this too. Get back to us and let us know how it works out.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
| |
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
|
Manky Badger wrote:
> Why ?
>
> Why this almost pathological fixation about asking burning -related
> questions and then not liking the response you get ?
Because the responses are not serious. I am asking a serious question
and would appreciate serious scientific answer to my question.
| |
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
|
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> I wonder about this too. Get back to us and let us know how it works out.
LOL
Is ANYONE going to give me a serious response to my question?
My questions about burns are NOT *homework*. They are questions of my
interest.
| |
| OldGoat 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Dear Radium,
Your questions are a bit off the wall, kind of like if you went in to space
and had a constant oxygen supply how long would it take for you to explode
for the vacuum of space. Whether you're the most muscular, strongest man in
the world or a 90 pound weakling with atrophied muscles, the results would
be the same. "POP".and you become orbiting hamburger.
Before they could get you paralyzed, I would think shock would kick in, and
if you burned as badly as you're suggesting, you probably wouldn't make it
in to the ambulance, much less a hospital.
There's enough pain going right here in the real world of the folks in this
group, the last thing we need is hypothetical cases of agony.
I don't like to answer questions with a question, but basically you're
talking about disconnecting the brain from the body with the exception of
the involuntary reflex of breathing. There's a lot of people in similar
situations everyday the only difference is the breathing reflex doesn't
function so they're on a respirator to keep them breathing. The terms 'brain
dead' and "pulling the plug" come to mind. Would you want to live that way?
BTW- one of the first things that happens when someone is burned that badly,
is they actually inhale the flames, instantly toasting the lung tissues, so
even if the brain still has the ability to try to breathe, it's not
happening.
(just my 2 cents, but) You need a different hobby--og
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142135220.155422.137060@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
> speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed
> into a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax"
> no matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
> surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around
> my body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns.
> Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
> immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
> reactions, or hypovolemic shock, and that my environment was totally
> sterile [free of infective agents], free of allergens [and other
> irritants] and that the burns had no affect on my respiratory system at
> all. In addition, let's say that the pain I experienced did not cause
> hyperventilation and did not affect the respiratory system or immune
> system at all and that I was totally conscious during this burning
> procedure. Last but not least, lets say I am otherwise [other than the
> burns and paralysis] totally healthy. What effects would the
> excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous and circulatory
> systems? Would those effects be fatal?
>
> Due to the paralysis, I would obviously be unable to scream or flinch
> no matter how much pain I am in.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Radium
>
| |
| Norminn 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Radium wrote:
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
>
>
>
>
> LOL
>
> Is ANYONE going to give me a serious response to my question?
>
> My questions about burns are NOT *homework*. They are questions of my
> interest.
>
You should read a text about human anatomy and physiology, so you will
learn what/why what you describe cannot occur.
| |
| Manky Badger 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
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"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142182868.371596.188460@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Manky Badger wrote:
>
> Because the responses are not serious. I am asking a serious question
> and would appreciate serious scientific answer to my question.
But how can we reply to such nonsense?
"Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
reactions, or hypovolemic shock"
but they will
"and that my environment was totally
sterile [free of infective agents], free of allergens [and other
irritants]"
but it's not
"and that the burns had no affect on my respiratory system at
all"
but they will
"In addition, let's say that the pain I experienced did not cause
hyperventilation and did not affect the respiratory system or immune
system at all"
but they will
" Last but not least, lets say I am otherwise [other than the
burns and paralysis] totally healthy."
But you can't be. So
" What effects would the
excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous and circulatory
systems? Would those effects be fatal?"
becomes a totally nonsensical question.
Breakfast at Milliways? Oh, sorry, my mistake - that's only five impossible
things.
| |
| Robert 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
|
"Manky Badger"
> But how can we reply to such nonsense?
>
> "Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
> immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
> reactions, or hypovolemic shock"
That's not the first time he has asked questions about burning flesh. It has
been several times.
"Why Did My Epidermal Burn Look Like White Foam? Please Respond With
Reasonable Answers"
"Unconsciousness Can Prevent Death In Cases of Painful Injuries?? - bionet
neuroscience"
| |
| Robert 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
|
"Norminn" <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZcZQf.10633$S25.6993@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Radium wrote:
out.[vbcol=seagreen]
> You should read a text about human anatomy and physiology, so you will
> learn what/why what you describe cannot occur.
He's probably beyond that by now and working on torching the neighbors dogs
and cats.
| |
| nobody@junk.min.net 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| In <1142135220.155422.137060@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, on 03/11/06
at 07:47 PM, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> said:
>I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
>speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed into
>a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax" no
How about just from upper chest down?
>matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
>surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around my
>body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns. Lets
>also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause immune
>responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory reactions, or
>hypovolemic shock, and that my environment was totally sterile [free of
>infective agents], free of allergens [and other irritants] and that the
>burns had no affect on my respiratory system at all. In addition, let's
>say that the pain I experienced did not cause hyperventilation and did
>not affect the respiratory system or immune system at all and that I was
>totally conscious during this burning procedure. Last but not least, lets
>say I am otherwise [other than the burns and paralysis] totally healthy.
>What effects would the excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous
>and circulatory systems? Would those effects be fatal?
Hasn't killed me after almost 25 years. It's called central pain
secondary to spinal cord injury.
Alan
--
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| |
| Ronnie 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Hubby had 70% of his body burned years ago. He
had to learn to walk and talk again. Other than that
he is fine with no problems.
Ronnie
--
*When one candle burns out..
Another is lit*
<nobody@junk.min.net> wrote in message
news:4414a3fb$1$nynaurff$mr2ice@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In <1142135220.155422.137060@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, on 03/11/06
> at 07:47 PM, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> said:
>
>
>
> How about just from upper chest down?
>
>
> Hasn't killed me after almost 25 years. It's called central pain
> secondary to spinal cord injury.
>
>
> Alan
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ** Please use address alanh77[at]comcast.net to reply via e-mail. **
>
> Posted using registered MR/2 ICE Newsreader #564 and eComStation 1.21
>
> BBS - The Nerve Center Telnet FidoNet 261/1000 tncbbs.no-ip.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
| |
| SandyG 2006-03-22, 3:40 pm |
| Radium wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
> Huh? I am asking a serious question. I have no application. I am just
> in it for the science. I am interested in the science of it.
Then you are in the wrong group. We are not in it "for the science of it".
We are in severe pain. Questions like yours are not helpful. Sorry.
--
-Sandy
"It's not the I. It's not the YOU. It is the WE that gets US through."
| |
| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On 11 Mar 2006 19:47:00 -0800, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
>Hi:
>I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
>speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed
>into a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax"
>no matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
>surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around
>my body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns.
>Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
>immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
>reactions, or hypovolemic shock, and that my environment was totally
>sterile [free of infective agents], free of allergens [and other
>irritants] and that the burns had no affect on my respiratory system at
>all. In addition, let's say that the pain I experienced did not cause
>hyperventilation and did not affect the respiratory system or immune
>system at all and that I was totally conscious during this burning
>procedure. Last but not least, lets say I am otherwise [other than the
>burns and paralysis] totally healthy. What effects would the
>excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous and circulatory
>systems? Would those effects be fatal?
>Due to the paralysis, I would obviously be unable to scream or flinch
>no matter how much pain I am in.
>Thanks,
>Radium
It's nice to read assinine questions like these every once in a while.
Sort of validates the need for psychiatry.
Ralph
| |
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
|
RalphRepo wrote:
> It's nice to read assinine questions like these every once in a while.
> Sort of validates the need for psychiatry.
Oh give me a break. Just because I am extremely interested in
hypothetical scenarios does not mean I am mentally-ill.
| |
| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On 13 Mar 2006 21:48:56 -0800, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
>
>RalphRepo wrote:
>
>
>Oh give me a break. Just because I am extremely interested in
>hypothetical scenarios does not mean I am mentally-ill.
The way you're asking the question points to the fact that you know
very little about the mechanism of burn injuries. You're mixing
improbables with the fantastic, then insist that you're asking a
reasonable "scientific" question. That burns selectively affect only
certain organ systems and not others is not only unrealistic; any
cause and effect theory based on those mechanisms of injury would then
be purely speculative. Example: if you eat, but the digestive tract is
unable to process food, and then also refuses to release the ingested
but undigested material; are you full of shit or not?
The short answer? Anyone that burns himself like that is probably
going to quickly die. You can look up the "whys" in a textbook. And if
you don't like what you read, you can selectively tear out pages until
you get a scenario that fits your agenda, whatever the hell it is.
Ralph
| |
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
|
RalphRepo wrote:
> The short answer? Anyone that burns himself like that is probably
> going to quickly die. You can look up the "whys" in a textbook. And if
> you don't like what you read, you can selectively tear out pages until
> you get a scenario that fits your agenda, whatever the hell it is.
In my hypothetical case, I guess the victim's cardiovascular system
would go out of control from the stress and pain.
Extreme stress can kill either by overworking the heart [sympathetic
overload] or relaxing it way too much [parasympathetic overreaction].
If the cardiovascular system is over-stimulated, the heartbeat can
become disorderly and the 4 chambers of the heart stop communicating
with each other. This can be fatal on its own. In other cases, after
over-stimulation, blood pressure rises excessively, this causes the
parasympthetic nervous system to kick in which in turn results in a
decrease in the strength and speed of the heart. This causes a dramatic
decrease in blood pressure. To make things worse, the parasympthetic
system causes blood vessels around the body to widen causing blood
pressure to fall even further. This extremely low blood pressure
results in loss of blood supply to vital organs and is therefore fatal.
Is my guess correct?
| |
| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On 14 Mar 2006 12:57:15 -0800, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
>
>In my hypothetical case, I guess the victim's cardiovascular system
>would go out of control from the stress and pain.
>Extreme stress can kill either by overworking the heart [sympathetic
>overload] or relaxing it way too much [parasympathetic overreaction].
>If the cardiovascular system is over-stimulated, the heartbeat can
>become disorderly and the 4 chambers of the heart stop communicating
>with each other. This can be fatal on its own. In other cases, after
>over-stimulation, blood pressure rises excessively, this causes the
>parasympthetic nervous system to kick in which in turn results in a
>decrease in the strength and speed of the heart. This causes a dramatic
>decrease in blood pressure. To make things worse, the parasympthetic
>system causes blood vessels around the body to widen causing blood
>pressure to fall even further. This extremely low blood pressure
>results in loss of blood supply to vital organs and is therefore fatal.
>Is my guess correct?
It's actually a bit different than you imagine. You seem to focus on
one thing while ignoring many others, not purposely, but rather from
ignorance of what is really important versus what, while true, is not
so important. This is typical of either a medical or nursing student.
In other words, you know facts in a vacuum without any clinical
context. And the only way that you would get such context is to work
in that environment. So if you don't know any of this, don't feel bad,
nor am I saying this to belittle you; I'm not. That's just how
experience works.
Your "partial" thickness burn, when affecting over 90% of the body can
be fatal for two main reasons; dehydration and infection. Your burn
wound would leak live a sieve. With burn injuries, the first 72 hours
focuses almost solely on fluid and pain management. Partial thickness
burns are more painful because the nerve endings are still intact. And
they leak fluids because the capillaries are still viable.
Your view of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system and
it's effects on cardiac function is straight out of a textbook, ie. in
a vacuum, so while academically correct, ignores many other
physiologic influences and demands.
Again, such patients are usually purposely sedated and then chemically
paralyzed to decrease the amount of oxygen demand overall. Blood
pressure, as a measure of systemic vascular resistence, must be kept
low, allowing the heart to pump against less pressure; hence
increasing cardiac output and systemic perfusion. If myoglobin from
deteriorating muscle mass accumulates, such patients may undergo
hemodialysis to preclude permanent renal damage. If charring around
the chest occurs, emergency escharotomy may need to be performed to
facilitate chest wall expansion. If lung searing from inhaled heat
occurred, then there may be either a pneumo or hemothorax, requiring a
chest tube. Steroids to bolster cellular integrity, antibiotics to
fight infection, and constant monitoring in an ICU that specializes in
burn care may save such a person's life. He or she would still look
like shit and need skin grafts and or transplants.
On this note, just a bit of FYI to anyone reading: NEVER TREAT A FRESH
BURN WITH BUTTER OR ANY OTHER THICK GREASE. IT SEALS IN THE HEAT SO
THAT THE BURN DAMAGE CONTINUES.
You treat a burn with a quick application of cold water, wet
dressings, and a trip to the Emergency Department.
Ralph
| |
| David Wright 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| In article <D8ZQf.3595$o41.856@trnddc06>,
OldGoat <oldgoatmail@ERdocsuckyahoo.com> wrote:
>Dear Radium,
>
>Your questions are a bit off the wall, kind of like if you went in to space
>and had a constant oxygen supply how long would it take for you to explode
>for the vacuum of space. Whether you're the most muscular, strongest man in
>the world or a 90 pound weakling with atrophied muscles, the results would
>be the same. "POP".and you become orbiting hamburger.
Bodies do not "explode in the vacuum of space." Remember that scene
in "2001: A Space Odyssey" where Bowman jumps out of his space pod
and into the airlock, despite the vacuum? That was scientifically
accurate.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
| |
| Ronnie 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| Ralph you just about summed up what hubby went
through after he was burned so bad. You mentioned
skin grafts. He had little skin to harvest to do grafts
and then the wait for that skin to rejuvinate so it could
be harvested again. 6 months in hospital and yes in
many cases *burning * pain can kill but in hubbys
case it was his *determination to live* that didnt kill
him.
Ronnie
--
*When one candle burns out..
Another is lit*
"RalphRepo" <Alice.BangZoom@Moon> wrote in message
news:r9pe12hjaqnhmjbdmh28ngnouajnk78615@4ax.com...
>
>
> It's actually a bit different than you imagine. You seem to focus on
> one thing while ignoring many others, not purposely, but rather from
> ignorance of what is really important versus what, while true, is not
> so important. This is typical of either a medical or nursing student.
> In other words, you know facts in a vacuum without any clinical
> context. And the only way that you would get such context is to work
> in that environment. So if you don't know any of this, don't feel bad,
> nor am I saying this to belittle you; I'm not. That's just how
> experience works.
>
> Your "partial" thickness burn, when affecting over 90% of the body can
> be fatal for two main reasons; dehydration and infection. Your burn
> wound would leak live a sieve. With burn injuries, the first 72 hours
> focuses almost solely on fluid and pain management. Partial thickness
> burns are more painful because the nerve endings are still intact. And
> they leak fluids because the capillaries are still viable.
>
> Your view of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system and
> it's effects on cardiac function is straight out of a textbook, ie. in
> a vacuum, so while academically correct, ignores many other
> physiologic influences and demands.
>
> Again, such patients are usually purposely sedated and then chemically
> paralyzed to decrease the amount of oxygen demand overall. Blood
> pressure, as a measure of systemic vascular resistence, must be kept
> low, allowing the heart to pump against less pressure; hence
> increasing cardiac output and systemic perfusion. If myoglobin from
> deteriorating muscle mass accumulates, such patients may undergo
> hemodialysis to preclude permanent renal damage. If charring around
> the chest occurs, emergency escharotomy may need to be performed to
> facilitate chest wall expansion. If lung searing from inhaled heat
> occurred, then there may be either a pneumo or hemothorax, requiring a
> chest tube. Steroids to bolster cellular integrity, antibiotics to
> fight infection, and constant monitoring in an ICU that specializes in
> burn care may save such a person's life. He or she would still look
> like shit and need skin grafts and or transplants.
>
> On this note, just a bit of FYI to anyone reading: NEVER TREAT A FRESH
> BURN WITH BUTTER OR ANY OTHER THICK GREASE. IT SEALS IN THE HEAT SO
> THAT THE BURN DAMAGE CONTINUES.
>
> You treat a burn with a quick application of cold water, wet
> dressings, and a trip to the Emergency Department.
>
> Ralph
| |
| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:32:34 -0500, "Ronnie" <ronnie@niantictoolinc.com> wrote:
>Ralph you just about summed up what hubby went
>through after he was burned so bad. You mentioned
>skin grafts. He had little skin to harvest to do grafts
>and then the wait for that skin to rejuvinate so it could
>be harvested again. 6 months in hospital and yes in
>many cases *burning * pain can kill but in hubbys
>case it was his *determination to live* that didnt kill
>him.
>Ronnie
>*When one candle burns out..
>Another is lit*
Burns are some of the most horrible injuries to ever have to deal
with, both from the patient's (esp) and the caregiver's. Not a nice
thing.
I hope your husband is on the mend and on the road to recovery. Like
you alluded to, often, it's the human spirit that's the most powerful
medicine.
Ralph
| |
| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
|
Ronnie wrote:
> Hubby had 70% of his body burned years ago. He
> had to learn to walk and talk again.
He had to re-learn talking and walking? Did the fire burn into his
brain or something?
No offense but if he lost memory of how to walk and talk than the
injury had to have directly attacked his brain. Either that or it is
PTSD. PTSD can -- in some cases -- cause memory lapses.
| |
| JEDilworth 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| Do you have ANY CONCEPTION as to what burns do to people's muscles or
their face? It literally burns them away! You have nothing but scar
tissue that contracts. Your legs and/or face just doesn't work any more.
Watch Discovery Health Channel sometime when they feature burn recovery
patients.
Try talking or walking without your facial or leg muscles sometime.
Sheesh!
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142557696.280190.152580@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> He had to re-learn talking and walking? Did the fire burn into his
> brain or something?
[more idiotic drivel snipped]
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| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:03:41 -0500, "JEDilworth" <bactitech@nospamhortonsbay.com> wrote:
>Do you have ANY CONCEPTION as to what burns do to people's muscles or
>their face? It literally burns them away! You have nothing but scar
>tissue that contracts. Your legs and/or face just doesn't work any more.
>Watch Discovery Health Channel sometime when they feature burn recovery
>patients.
>
>Try talking or walking without your facial or leg muscles sometime.
>
>Sheesh!
>
>Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
>Microbiology
>
>"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
>news:1142557696.280190.152580@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
>[more idiotic drivel snipped]
Radium, it's like this, if someone chopped your fingers off, and you
had to learn to type these msgs with your knuckles and nose; would you
reasonably conclude that you've suffered brain damage?
You're focusing on PTSD or some other "novel" or esoteric reasons to
the extent that you simply ignore the obvious.
Ralph
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| Ronnie 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| He had 70% of his body burned. He went from
being 135 to 78 pounds. From his chin to his groin
in front. Neck to butt in back. Both arms and both
legs to feet. Your brain does know how to walk but
the body wasnt willing. As far as talking the throat
was scorched on the inside hence words wouldnt
pronounce right.
Ronnie
*When one candle burns out..
Another is lit*
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142557696.280190.152580@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ronnie wrote:
>
> He had to re-learn talking and walking? Did the fire burn into his
> brain or something?
>
> No offense but if he lost memory of how to walk and talk than the
> injury had to have directly attacked his brain. Either that or it is
> PTSD. PTSD can -- in some cases -- cause memory lapses.
>
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| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
|
RalphRepo wrote:
> He or she would still look
> like shit and need skin grafts and or transplants.
Superficial burns usually don't scar or need grafts or transplants.
They often heal completely by natural means.
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| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On 18 Mar 2006 15:23:47 -0800, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
>RalphRepo wrote:
>
>
>Superficial burns usually don't scar or need grafts or transplants.
>They often heal completely by natural means.
Yeah? Show me a "superficial" burn from an oxyacetylene flame. In case
you're not aware, to qualify as an "oxyacetylene" they must burn in
excess of 3000 degress celsius. Even the briefest of exposure to such
a flame source will burn you beyond belief.
But then again, this is a magical question. So why bother.
Good bye
Ralph
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| Radium 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
|
RalphRepo wrote:
> Blood pressure, as a measure of systemic vascular resistence, must be kept
> low, allowing the heart to pump against less pressure; hence
> increasing cardiac output and systemic perfusion.
Blood pressure show be lower to increase perfusion and cardiac output?
How does that work?
Lower blood pressure means less output and perfusion.
> If lung searing from inhaled heat
> occurred, then there may be either a pneumo or hemothorax, requiring a
> chest tube.
Hemothorax and pneumothorax are caused by *mechanical* injuries NOT
*thermal* injuries.
http://www.answers.com/pneumothorax
http://www.answers.com/topic/hemothorax?method=22
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| RalphRepo 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| >On 18 Mar 2006 20:26:46 -0800, "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
>
>RalphRepo wrote:
>
>
>Blood pressure show be lower to increase perfusion and cardiac output?
>How does that work?
>
>Lower blood pressure means less output and perfusion.
>
>
>Hemothorax and pneumothorax are caused by *mechanical* injuries NOT
>*thermal* injuries.
>
>http://www.answers.com/pneumothorax
>
>http://www.answers.com/topic/hemothorax?method=22
Again, you're plucking "facts" out of a hat as if they're the end all
of rationales in physiology. Here's a clue for you; look up "preload"
and "afterload" and see if you can figure out what they mean in terms
of perfusion, pressure, and cardiac output.
Hemo-pneumothoraces can result from burns simply because the burn will
damage the lung; allowing for either air or blood from injured
pulmonary tissue to vent where it would not normally go.
Also from one of the links that you provided:
"...Information on this web site is provided for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical
advice..."
You're reading, but you're not understanding.
Ralph
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| Arcie Mizelle 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| You can't possibly be serious on this question, because your "let's say..."
conditions are eliminating 90% of the bodies normal response. Your
conditions have limited the argument to a decomposing pile of tissue unable
to mount a healing response, much less an inflammatory response. You are
like the person who takes the hands of his watch to a repair shop without
the watch because the hands weren't moving and you expect the watch
repairman to fix the problem.
What is the point of this?
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142135220.155422.137060@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> I wonder what would happen if each of my voluntary muscles [including
> speech muscles; excluding breathing muscles] were completely relaxed
> into a state of total paralysis [and could not contract or "un-relax"
> no matter how much stimulation those muscles recieved] and someone
> surrounded me with oxyacetylene flames and burned the skin all around
> my body resulting in extensive superficial partial-thickness burns.
> Lets also say -- for some magical reason -- the burns did not cause
> immune responses [or affect my immune system at all], inflammatory
> reactions, or hypovolemic shock, and that my environment was totally
> sterile [free of infective agents], free of allergens [and other
> irritants] and that the burns had no affect on my respiratory system at
> all. In addition, let's say that the pain I experienced did not cause
> hyperventilation and did not affect the respiratory system or immune
> system at all and that I was totally conscious during this burning
> procedure. Last but not least, lets say I am otherwise [other than the
> burns and paralysis] totally healthy. What effects would the
> excruciating pain of the burns have on my nervous and circulatory
> systems? Would those effects be fatal?
>
> Due to the paralysis, I would obviously be unable to scream or flinch
> no matter how much pain I am in.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Radium
>
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| Arcie Mizelle 2006-03-22, 3:41 pm |
| Radium,
Here is the problem with your question. In your question you eliminated the
conditions that would allow the cardiovascular or the nervous systems to
respond at all. We as a group need more input as to what you actually
understand about the question you are asking. The way you have put the
question seems to point to a lack of knowledge about the entire process.
You would probably get a more positive response if you provided more
information...
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1142369835.154255.15570@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> RalphRepo wrote:
>
>
> In my hypothetical case, I guess the victim's cardiovascular system
> would go out of control from the stress and pain.
>
> Extreme stress can kill either by overworking the heart [sympathetic
> overload] or relaxing it way too much [parasympathetic overreaction].
> If the cardiovascular system is over-stimulated, the heartbeat can
> become disorderly and the 4 chambers of the heart stop communicating
> with each other. This can be fatal on its own. In other cases, after
> over-stimulation, blood pressure rises excessively, this causes the
> parasympthetic nervous system to kick in which in turn results in a
> decrease in the strength and speed of the heart. This causes a dramatic
> decrease in blood pressure. To make things worse, the parasympthetic
> system causes blood vessels around the body to widen causing blood
> pressure to fall even further. This extremely low blood pressure
> results in loss of blood supply to vital organs and is therefore fatal.
>
> Is my guess correct?
>
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