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Can DiabetesT2/IR cause Obesity?
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| Kumar 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
| Hello,
"Type 2 diabetes commonly occurs in adults who are obese. There are
many underlying factors that contribute to the high blood glucose
levels in these individuals. An important factor is the body's
resistance to insulin in the body, essentially ignoring its insulin
secretions. A second factor is the falling production of insulin by the
beta cells of the pancreas. Therefore, an individual with type 2
diabetes may have a combination of deficient secretion and deficient
action of insulin."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/b...betes.section.4
Now my doubts are:-
Whether obesity is a reason/cause of getting Type 2 diabetes OR Type 2
diabetes with deficient action of insulin is the cause/reson of making
a person obese(central obesity)--may be due to conversion of excess
glucose into fats?
How a type2 patient can get deficient secretion of insulin in early
stages? Can excess BG level cause low secretion of insulin?
Best wishes.
| |
| oldal4865 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
|
Kumar wrote in message
<1120305443.700518.318930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
>Hello,
.. . .(snip). . .
>Now my doubts are:-
>
>Whether obesity is a reason/cause of getting Type 2 diabetes OR Type 2
>diabetes with deficient action of insulin is the cause/reson of making
>a person obese(central obesity)--may be due to conversion of excess
>glucose into fats?
>
>How a type2 patient can get deficient secretion of insulin in early
>stages? Can excess BG level cause low secretion of insulin?
>
>Best wishes.
>
Some opinions I have seen.
1. "Excess bG" comes late in the Type 2 Diabetes Progression. Much of
the damage has occurred before the high bG shows up. The high bG start to
show up when about half of the Type 2 Diabetic's beta cells are
non-functional. (See UKPDS, DCCP)
2. High Insulin Resistance is associated with the abdominal fat (visceral
fat) inside the abdominal wall, i.e. Omental Fat. You can't see if
easily, you can't even measure it easily The docs estimate Omental Fat
levels via NMR scans and the like.
Quite a few folks think that high Insulin Resistance encourages general fat
deposition. If so, that suggests that a genetic tendency toward Omental
Fat production can increase Insulin Resistance which in turn encourages
overall fat deposition leading to more visible obesity.
Regards
Old Al
| |
| GysdeJongh 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
| "oldal4865" <oldal4865@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ioed9FmjpplU1@individual.net...
>
> Kumar wrote in message
> <1120305443.700518.318930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
> . . .(snip). . .
>
> Some opinions I have seen.
>
> 1. "Excess bG" comes late in the Type 2 Diabetes Progression. Much of
> the damage has occurred before the high bG shows up. The high bG start to
> show up when about half of the Type 2 Diabetic's beta cells are
> non-functional. (See UKPDS, DCCP)
>
> 2. High Insulin Resistance is associated with the abdominal fat (visceral
> fat) inside the abdominal wall, i.e. Omental Fat. You can't see if
> easily, you can't even measure it easily The docs estimate Omental Fat
> levels via NMR scans and the like.
>
> Quite a few folks think that high Insulin Resistance encourages general fat
> deposition. If so, that suggests that a genetic tendency toward Omental
> Fat production can increase Insulin Resistance which in turn encourages
> overall fat deposition leading to more visible obesity.
>
> Regards
> Old Al
Thank you Old Al ,
I try to learn as much as possible about this condition.
In this project I find myself saving almost all your posts.
I find all your posts very ontopic , scientific , non-offending and informative
Thx again
Gys
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| kumar 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
| Thanks for replies.
It means, obesity/more fats can be posssible due to excess insulin & IR
codition.
Now, what can happen, when we induce more insulin secretion by
medicines or inject more insulin in IR candition? Can excess insulin be
a reason of getting central obesity or excess fats?
| |
| Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
| >>Now my doubts are:-
Whether obesity is a reason/cause of getting Type 2 diabetes OR Type 2
diabetes with deficient action of insulin is the cause/reson of making
a person obese(central obesity)--may be due to conversion of excess
glucose into fats? <<
COMMENT:
Insulin is a pro-storage molecule. Too much action will encourage fat
deposition, but people with insulin resistance have too little action,
even if they have high levels. Thus, this is not result, but cause.
Much data of manipulation of fat in type II diabetics showing you can
influence insulin sensitivity that way.
Yes, going on insulin injections makes it very difficult to get rid of
fat.
[vbcol=seagreen]
stages? <<
They generally don't. Not till later stages when the pancreas gives up.
[vbcol=seagreen]
No. Excess BG causes insulin to be made if the body is capable of
doing it.
SBH
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| Kumar 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
| SBH, thanks. But I think "converting sugar into fats" is a different
mechanism. Normal cells which takes gulucose are not involved here but
fat cells are involved. Insulin resistance for glucose metabolism may
not be involved here, but there can be some fats store limit/fats
resistance.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell3.htm
"They generally don't. Not till later stages when the pancreas gives
up."
Can't expression of excess insulin present due to IR or
induced/medicated discourage more insulin secretion from pancreas?
Can't this persistant long term expression of excess insulin cause
inactivity or damage to beta cells or autoimmunity?
| |
| CeeBee 2005-07-03, 12:33 pm |
| "Kumar" <lordshiva5753@rediffmail.com> wrote in
misc.health.diabetes:
> Now my doubts are:-
>
> Whether obesity is a reason/cause of getting Type 2 diabetes OR
> Type 2 diabetes with deficient action of insulin is the
> cause/reson of making a person obese(central obesity)--may be
> due to conversion of excess glucose into fats?
There 's still little known about the mechanism of overweight and
obesity - fat - contributing to or causing T2 to state it either
way, although there are a pointers that an excess of fat tissue
might trigger T2 for people who are already at high (genetic) risk
of getting T2.
Almost all people get obese because of an imbalance in calorie
intake and burning them. The rate and ease with which this
happens, might be speeded up by IR, but again, this can either be
one of the causes or one of the effects.
If insulin resistance is the autonomous factor in causing obesity,
there's much more to say that a growing or a blooming economy is
causing obesity and T2 diabetes, because the wealthier a country
becomes, and the more economic activity, the higher the rate of
obese people. Of course this is nonsense.
The reason why caloric intake is becoming such a problem is life
styla changes: from regular low caloric diet and a lot of physical
labour to an irregular high caloric diet and a lack of physical
labor.
If someone gains weight without having some other serious
metabolic disorder cutting back on calorie intake and increasing
physical exercise will prevent further weight gain, and most
likely development of T2 symptoms.
--
CeeBee
***The cookie has spoken***
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| Thanks.
"Those without visceral adiposity do *not* get type 2 diabetes.
Type 2 diabetes did not become prevalent among the Pima indians until
they became overweight."
Your awnser don't clear it, whether type2/IR causes visceral
adiposity/oveweight OR visceral adiposity/oveweight causes type2/IR?
Anyway, overweight for no other reason can mean, person is burning
required calories & using more glucose in conversion of glucose into
fats in the presence of excess insulin. Constant weight with normal
lipid levels can mean that person is burning required calories & not
using sugar in fat conversion. Lose weight can mean, he is not burning
calories, not using glucose in conversion it into fats & so using fats
as a source of energy. Right?
I think it indicates that IR oriented high BG should be possible only
when limit of fat store is atained & reversal of IR on weght loss is
due to more room become available to excess glucose in presence of
excess insulin. But will it be a temporary correction as it may again
reverse, when limit of fat stores again reached?
This condition may cause obesity which can be due to glucose-fat
conversion or by direct excess fats ingestion. But I think central
obesity can be more related to IR/glucose-fat conversion instead of
direct excess fats ingestion.
Nothing is much clear in this way. Which is out of guluco-toxicity,
insulin-toxicity or obesity is the prime cause of getting IR condtion?
Why we consider excess sugar in urine as a disorder? How excess BG on
excess intake of sugar will be excreted, when a maximum limit of its
usages as glucose or in irs fat conversion in exhausted?
Can any disorder in excess glucose excretion be also a reason of
getting gluco/Insulin-toxicity instead of IR/insulin secretion?
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"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:42C814EE.252D55C2@heartmdphd.com...
> CeeBee wrote:
>
> Those without visceral adiposity do *not* get type 2 diabetes.
In general, this is true. However, there are some people with specific
genetic causes of diabetes who get diabetes type II without being
overweight. (http://www.cmj.org/information/full.asp?pmid=20055415) And
there are some normal-weight adults who don't have one of these genetic
abnormalities who become diabetic (type II). From the National Institutes
of Health: " Type 2 diabetes usually occurs gradually. Most people with type
2 diabetes are overweight at the time of diagnosis. However, the disease can
also develop in lean people, especially if elderly."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/...0risk%20factors
In addition, there is MODY (maturity onset diabetes of the young) in which
people develop diabetes in middle age. Unless they are obese, in which case
they develop it much younger.
That being said, the most important things people can do to prevent type II
diabetes is eat a healthy diet, keep a healthy weight and get plenty of
excercise.
Jeff
> Type 2 diabetes did not become prevalent among the Pima indians until
> they became overweight.
>
> In Christ's love and service,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Board-Certified Cardiologist
>
> **
> Suggested Reading:
> (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
> (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
> (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
| |
| Herman Rubin 2005-07-04, 6:00 pm |
| In article <1120363247.195508.19760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Kumar <lordshiva5753@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>SBH, thanks. But I think "converting sugar into fats" is a different
>mechanism. Normal cells which takes gulucose are not involved here but
>fat cells are involved. Insulin resistance for glucose metabolism may
>not be involved here, but there can be some fats store limit/fats
>resistance.
>http://home.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell3.htm
>"They generally don't. Not till later stages when the pancreas gives
>up."
>Can't expression of excess insulin present due to IR or
>induced/medicated discourage more insulin secretion from pancreas?
"Syndrome X", or whatever you want to call it, is not just
insulin resistance, and AFAIK not too much is known about
the chemicals involved. My own case might be interesting,
but I do not think it is necessarily typical.
Roughly 60 years ago, I went quickly (within a 2 year period)
from being sufficiently skinny that medical efforts were made
to increase my weight to having the reverse problem. Was this
the onset of Syndrome X? Remember that at that time it was
not known that Type 2 diabetics could be producing normal
amounts of insulin.
For the next 40 years, my fasting blood sugar stayed below the
limits then used, 140 mg/dl. About 5 years before the end of
that period, I exhibited behavior on a glucose tolerance test
which would NOW be immediate cause for treatment for diabetes,
going too high and then too low. Then suddenly, possibly from
getting a diuretic for high blood pressure, it went up and
stayed up. If anything, I waited too long to go on insulin,
and my C-peptide level, indication of pancreatic insulin production,
is in the normal range.
>Can't this persistant long term expression of excess insulin cause
>inactivity or damage to beta cells or autoimmunity?
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
| |
| Kumar 2005-07-05, 12:06 pm |
| Hello Jeff,
I think this concept is bit confusing and is alike ' which out of egg
and hen came first'. It can also be a visious circle. Genetic
predispostion is said to be there in every diabetic patient unless we
seprate insulin resistance from diabetes. Modern lifestyle &
environment said to cause epidemic type of diabetes spread only in
predisposed people.
I suspect genetic predisposed condition causes a person to eat more &
irregularly--may be due to more & occasional insulin/gastric acid
secretions resulted from this predisposed inharent effect or
aquired/added due to modern lifestyle/environment.
This may make a person obese(not centrally at this stage). The fat
storage capacity due to it is exhaused & body may then stop
metabolising glucose, glucose conversion into fats and storing more
fats. This then may result into insulin resistance indicating all body
capacity to accept glucose if full. However when mucsle cells are
enable to take glucose body may get signals of less glucose & may store
these as fats centrally for the emergency need of fuel(visceral fats
may be used immidiately). But already excess fats in body don't leave
any room for store of fats, so IR can persist.
Anyway, I have some other thoughts:-
1. Can traped water in partly metabolized sugar (lactic acid or
purvrate) be also a reason of central obesity/blotting of abdomen &
weight gain? This may be modality of immediate 5-10% weight loss(water
not fats) as claimed by some health providers. More
O2/breathing/aerobic excercises may do this.
2.Can diabetes/elevated BG levels with IR be due to some disorder in
intestinal absorption of sugar? Can excess intake of salt/sodium/fats,
imbalances in gastric acid due to stesses & modern ltfestyle, bile and
bicarbonate leading to changes in intestinal mucus lining, costipation
or delayed motions etc. cause diabetes/elevated BG levels or IR,
primarily?
3. Can diabetes/elevated BG levels with IR be due to some disorder in
excretion of excess sugar in urine?
4. Can 2 & 3 be possible or aggravated due to high BG or high insulin
levels--natural, induced or medicated?
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"Kumar" <lordshiva5753@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120554398.870096.8890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hello Jeff,
>
> I think this concept is bit confusing and is alike ' which out of egg
> and hen came first'. It can also be a visious circle. Genetic
> predispostion is said to be there in every diabetic patient unless we
> seprate insulin resistance from diabetes. Modern lifestyle &
> environment said to cause epidemic type of diabetes spread only in
> predisposed people.
>
> I suspect genetic predisposed condition causes a person to eat more &
> irregularly--may be due to more & occasional insulin/gastric acid
> secretions resulted from this predisposed inharent effect or
> aquired/added due to modern lifestyle/environment.
>
> This may make a person obese(not centrally at this stage). The fat
> storage capacity due to it is exhaused & body may then stop
> metabolising glucose, glucose conversion into fats and storing more
> fats. This then may result into insulin resistance indicating all body
> capacity to accept glucose if full. However when mucsle cells are
> enable to take glucose body may get signals of less glucose & may store
> these as fats centrally for the emergency need of fuel(visceral fats
> may be used immidiately). But already excess fats in body don't leave
> any room for store of fats, so IR can persist.
>
> Anyway, I have some other thoughts:-
>
> 1. Can traped water in partly metabolized sugar (lactic acid or
> purvrate) be also a reason of central obesity/blotting of abdomen &
> weight gain? This may be modality of immediate 5-10% weight loss(water
> not fats) as claimed by some health providers. More
> O2/breathing/aerobic excercises may do this.
I don't think there is usually enough lactic acid or pyruvate to cause water
retention. However, some of the water loss when people go on Atkins and
other low carb diets is there is less glycogen (animal starch), which
results in water excretion (a lot of water is stored with glycogen).
> 2.Can diabetes/elevated BG levels with IR be due to some disorder in
> intestinal absorption of sugar?
No. If there is a disorder in intestinal absorbtion of sugar, you will get
diarrhea and gas.
> Can excess intake of salt/sodium/fats,
> imbalances in gastric acid due to stesses & modern ltfestyle, bile and
> bicarbonate leading to changes in intestinal mucus lining, costipation
> or delayed motions etc. cause diabetes/elevated BG levels or IR,
> primarily?
Decreased fiber and water intake and excercise can cause constipation.
Decreasing fiber and excercise can increase the likelihood of type II
diatbetes, but through other means.
> 3. Can diabetes/elevated BG levels with IR be due to some disorder in
> excretion of excess sugar in urine?
No. The excretion of excess sugar in urine is because the kidney has a limit
(or threshold) on how much sugar it can absorb from the urine. In people who
have high blood sugar, the threashold is exceeded.
> 4. Can 2 & 3 be possible or aggravated due to high BG or high insulin
> levels--natural, induced or medicated?
Not sure what you mean.
| |
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| Jeff,
Genetic causes may there in most of us. But modern lifestyles &
environment can cause occurance of diabetes2?/IR.
So we may think it is modern lifestyle oriented. Two things are there.
1.Diabetes 2 IR.
IR seems to be reversable by correcting the modernstyle.
How can we then consider IR as a genetic/hereditary disease? Is it not
just an "modernlifestyle and environment oriented aquired disorder"?
| |
|
| No. The excretion of excess sugar in urine is because the kidney has a
limit
(or threshold) on how much sugar it can absorb from the urine. In
people who
have high blood sugar, the threashold is exceeded.
| |
|
| "I don't think there is usually enough lactic acid or pyruvate to cause
water retention."
Excess Lactic acid( i don't know about pyruvate) can be immidiate
toxic/fatal. Can't it then encourage water retention to keep it
diluted? Can't modern lifestyle, pollution etc. cause more Lactic acid
production & prevalence?
"No. If there is a disorder in intestinal absorbtion of sugar, you will
get diarrhea and gas."
Gas, delayed motion, unclear motion or costipation is common in many
diabetics. Can't then it may be due to excess absorption of sugar/Na
due to some defects in intestinal mucus lining (may be due to thick
lining & more Na)? Na, Mg, silicon, Sugar, citrate (Fe also?)
attract/absorb water in intestines. Any defficiency in these may also
cause delayed motions/constipation other that neurological problem?
"No. The excretion of excess sugar in urine is because the kidney has a
limit
(or threshold) on how much sugar it can absorb from the urine. In
people who
have high blood sugar, the threashold"
Can't excess insulin(naturally secreted or induced by medication) put
some hold in proper excretion of sugar in urine? Can excess insulin
effect renal threshhold of sugar absorption? There can be an impression
of sugar need or it can be used due to excess insulin?
| |
| Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD 2005-07-06, 8:55 am |
| Jeff wrote:
>
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:42CA5A88.CEBAF2E7@heartmdphd.com...
>
> I see you deleted the rest of my post, without indicating that fact.
Your words are not sacred.
> The truth is that there are genetic causes of diabetes (type II).
Actually, there is an inherited predisposition for developing type 2
diabetes rather than an inherited cause of it.
> And people
> with these genetic causes do get diabetes even if their weight is normal.
Normal is not the same as ideal.
Those with the genetic predisposition to develop type 2 diabetes will be
so afflicted when they are heavier than ideal.
Those without this genetic predisposition will not develop type 2
diabetes no matter how heavy they get.
> Truth is not simple.
Your words confirm that you are unable to discern the truth.
Truth remains simple:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2264129A
The way to the truth is straight and narrow:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2642108A
You will remain in my prayers, dear Jeff, whom I love, in Lord Christ's
holy name.
May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and
Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the
fascinating riches of His everlasting kingdom.
Here's how:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is
the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which
is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2
arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the
Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the
2PD-OMER Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make
His presence known here on Usenet :-)
Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16
oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what
"omer" literally means in Hebrew.
Enter the 2PD-OMER Approach, which can "cure" metabolic syndrome (MetS)
thereby bringing this thread back on topic in these NGs :-)
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
| |
| Kumar 2005-07-06, 11:53 am |
| "Those with the genetic predisposition to develop type 2 diabetes will
be
so afflicted when they are heavier than ideal."
Can you tell science behind it?
Can glucose be still converted into fats, if a patient is insulin
resistant?
Can fats be deposited/stored in all cells making them insulin
resistant??? If fat store is only limited to fat cells then, how muscle
cells can be effected from fats/obesity?
| |
| tech27 2005-07-07, 8:53 am |
| Your premise is so riddled with inaccuracies that it doesn't merit a reply.
"Kumar" <lordshiva5753@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120305443.700518.318930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
>
>
> "Type 2 diabetes commonly occurs in adults who are obese. There are
> many underlying factors that contribute to the high blood glucose
> levels in these individuals. An important factor is the body's
> resistance to insulin in the body, essentially ignoring its insulin
> secretions. A second factor is the falling production of insulin by the
> beta cells of the pancreas. Therefore, an individual with type 2
> diabetes may have a combination of deficient secretion and deficient
> action of insulin."
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/b...betes.section.4
>
> Now my doubts are:-
>
> Whether obesity is a reason/cause of getting Type 2 diabetes OR Type 2
> diabetes with deficient action of insulin is the cause/reson of making
> a person obese(central obesity)--may be due to conversion of excess
> glucose into fats?
>
> How a type2 patient can get deficient secretion of insulin in early
> stages? Can excess BG level cause low secretion of insulin?
>
> Best wishes.
>
| |
|
| "Your premise is so riddled with inaccuracies that it doesn't merit a
reply."
Inaccuracies/Not yet known, can also be there is todays
understandings/theories. If not conclusive/absolute, we can try anytype?
| |
| pinecone 2005-07-09, 12:15 pm |
| Kumar,
This can be a tough crowd!!! I admire your Karl Popperian style
(putting your own best theory out there so everyone can try to find the
holes in it in order to formulate a better theory). It looks like we
may be very close to making a quantum leap in our understanding of
diabetes. I would love to see more kids not join our club.
pc
| |
| Twittering One 2005-07-09, 12:15 pm |
| "I would love to see more kids
Not join our club."
~ pinecone
"The world offers much, simple pleasures,
The best, for me.
Diabetes, yes, no piece of cake.
But when life offers paltry options, ghetto, poverty, bleak outlook,
The junkfood offers brief respite.
Need better solutions."
~ Twittering
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| kumar 2005-07-09, 12:15 pm |
| Ok, how obesity is a contribting factor to getting IR condition?
Why glucose has difficulty getting into cells in IR so that this
increase in that insulin blood concentration is needed?
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"Kumar" <lordshiva5753@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120305443.700518.318930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
>
>
> "Type 2 diabetes commonly occurs in adults who are obese. There are
> many underlying factors that contribute to the high blood glucose
> levels in these individuals. An important factor is the body's
> resistance to insulin in the body, essentially ignoring its insulin
> secretions. A second factor is the falling production of insulin by the
> beta cells of the pancreas. Therefore, an individual with type 2
> diabetes may have a combination of deficient secretion and deficient
> action of insulin."
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/b...betes.section.4
>
> Now my doubts are:-
>
> Whether obesity is a reason/cause of getting Type 2 diabetes OR Type 2
> diabetes with deficient action of insulin is the cause/reson of making
> a person obese(central obesity)--may be due to conversion of excess
> glucose into fats?
>
> How a type2 patient can get deficient secretion of insulin in early
> stages? Can excess BG level cause low secretion of insulin?
>
> Best wishes.
>
Catch 22 - Obesity increases IR, Increased circulating insulin due to IR
contributes to obesity. Can the cycle be broken? Yes, but it takes a change
in lifestyle.
BJ
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