Medicine laboratory - Iron stores RISE progressively during ageing

Author

Iron stores RISE progressively during ageing

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-04-26, 11:49 am

<<snip>>
there was a significant association of serum ferritin and iron overload
with age
<<snip>>

Arch Med Res. 2005 Mar-Apr;36(2):142-7. Related Articles, Links

Evaluation of iron overload in healthy adult residents of Mexico city.

Baptista-Gonzalez H, Rosenfeld-Mann F, Trueba-Gomez R, Mendez-Sanchez
N, Uribe M.

Hematologia Perinatal, Subdireccion de Investigacion Clinica, Instituto
Nacional de Perinatologia, Mexico City, Mexico.

BACKGROUND: We described the effects of age, gender and body mass index
(BMI) on the prevalence of iron overload (IO) in blood donors from
Mexico City. METHODS: A cross-sectional study of clinically healthy
adults was performed. We evaluated serum ferritin (SF) concentration to
allow us to establish groups with normal iron stores (SF >30 mug/L) and
with IO (SF >200 mug/L and >300 mug/L for women and men), in the
following ages groups: 18-29 years, 30-49 years, and 50-64 years,
divided by gender. RESULTS: The study included 1757 subjects.
Prevalence of IO was 12% in men and 4.8% in women, and prevalence
increased in parallel with increasing age (15.6, 25.0 and 29.9% and
3.5, 5.2 and 9.6%, for men and women, respectively). Regression
analysis showed that in men there was a significant association of SF
and IO with age, BMI and recent blood donation (p <0.01). In women, no
differences were seen for BMI and recent blood donation. CONCLUSIONS:
IO is highly prevalent in blood donors residing in Mexico City, more so
in men than in women. Age, gender and BMI had a positive association
with iron stores. This report is the initial contribution towards the
study of IO in the Mexican population.

PMID: 15847947 [PubMed - in process]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

PeterB

2005-04-26, 5:52 pm

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
> <<snip>>
> there was a significant association of serum ferritin and iron
overload
> with age
> <<snip>>
>
>
> Arch Med Res. 2005 Mar-Apr;36(2):142-7. Related Articles, Links
>
> Evaluation of iron overload in healthy adult residents of Mexico
city.
>
> Baptista-Gonzalez H, Rosenfeld-Mann F, Trueba-Gomez R, Mendez-Sanchez
> N, Uribe M.
>
> Hematologia Perinatal, Subdireccion de Investigacion Clinica,
Instituto
> Nacional de Perinatologia, Mexico City, Mexico.
>
>
> BACKGROUND: We described the effects of age, gender and body mass
index
> (BMI) on the prevalence of iron overload (IO) in blood donors from
> Mexico City. METHODS: A cross-sectional study of clinically healthy
> adults was performed. We evaluated serum ferritin (SF) concentration
to
> allow us to establish groups with normal iron stores (SF >30 mug/L)
and
> with IO (SF >200 mug/L and >300 mug/L for women and men), in the
> following ages groups: 18-29 years, 30-49 years, and 50-64 years,
> divided by gender. RESULTS: The study included 1757 subjects.
> Prevalence of IO was 12% in men and 4.8% in women, and prevalence
> increased in parallel with increasing age (15.6, 25.0 and 29.9% and
> 3.5, 5.2 and 9.6%, for men and women, respectively). Regression
> analysis showed that in men there was a significant association of SF
> and IO with age, BMI and recent blood donation (p <0.01). In women,
no
> differences were seen for BMI and recent blood donation. CONCLUSIONS:
> IO is highly prevalent in blood donors residing in Mexico City, more
so
> in men than in women. Age, gender and BMI had a positive association
> with iron stores. This report is the initial contribution towards the
> study of IO in the Mexican population.
>
> PMID: 15847947 [PubMed - in process]

Just as normal ferritin values do not exclude the possibility of iron
depletion (since inflammation elevates plasma ferritin independent of
iron stores), it's also true that adequate intracellular iron does not
exist independent of dietary intake of this important mineral. In
other words, the fact we may sometimes have adequate iron stores does
not mean we should discontinue foods which contain iron. As a trace
mineral, iron might easily be over-supplied in the form of either meat
or supplements and lead to problems associated with excess iron. But
keep in mind that plant-based iron (non heme) is actually far less
metabolically efficient than meat-based (heme) iron. A non-meat diet
is therefore problematic (as most vegans have discovered) for the lack
of an easily absorbed form of dietary iron. The more one relies on
plant-based iron (with only 2-10% absorption), the more one is likely
to encounter the effects of free iron, which represents the remaining
90-98% of non-metabolized mineral. One such effect is greater
susceptability to viral infection. By contrast, intracellular iron
stores are perfectly normal, but may be a factor in the amount of FREE
IRON which is then permitted (or forced) to exist extracellularly in
response to inefficient dietary iron. It is known, for instance, that
consumption of heme iron (meat based) improves beneficial uptake of
non-heme iron.

Peter

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-04-26, 10:57 pm

>> keep in mind that plant-based iron {non heme) is actually far less
metabolically efficient than meat-based (heme) iron <<

Don't know what you are attempting to say .. here .. but the iron is
the same ..

Meat iron is absorbed at a higher rate ..

Meat iron is the ssme as plant iron .. only bound chemically to .. heme
...

Absorbed .. at all times ..

Even when the body is attempting NOT to absorb so much iron ..

'Builds progressively as one ages and causes iron poisoning ..

A non-meat diet
is therefore problematic (as most vegans have discovered) for the lack
of an easily absorbed form of dietary iron.
[vbcol=seagreen]
discovered) for the lack of an easily absorbed form of dietary iron<<

You have to be still reading books from the past century ..

Vegetarians have lower iron .. stores ..

Stores ..
Stores ..

They do not have iron deficiency ..
They do not have iron deficiency ..

This is because all plant foods contain .. iron .. AND .. vitamin C ..
and since vitamin C enhances the absorption of iron .. IF NEED BE ..
then the vegetarian actually has ACCESS .. to .. MORE .. iron then a
meat eater .. BUT .. only absorbs what the body requires .. contrasting
the meat eater who absorbs iron to the point of iron poisoning ..

Iron poisoning is .. bad ..

Need .. a .. cite .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-04-26, 10:57 pm

Vegetarians have lower iron .. stores ..
Stores ..
Stores ..
They do not have iron deficiency ..
They do not have iron deficiency ..

============================

COMMENT:

In fact, many do. Very low iron stores are not a good thing, for they
correlate with difficulties in mentation, long before one becomes
anemic. The brain needs iron, too.

1: Ann Nutr Metab. 2004;48(2):103-8. Epub 2004 Feb 25.

Dietary iron intake and iron status of German female vegans: results of
the
German vegan study.

Waldmann A, Koschizke JW, Leitzmann C, Hahn A.

Institute of Food Science, university of Hannover, Hannover, Germany.

BACKGROUND: As shown in previous studies vegetarians and especially
vegans are
at risk for iron deficiency. Our study evaluated the iron status of
German
female vegans. METHODS: In this cross-sectional study, the dietary
intakes of 75
vegan women were assessed by two 9-day food frequency questionnaires.
The iron
status was analyzed on the basis of blood parameters. RESULTS: Mean
daily iron
intake was higher than recommended by the German Nutrition Society.
Still 42% of
the female vegans < 50 years (young women, YW) had a daily iron intake
of < 18
mg/day, which is the recommended allowance by the US Food and Nutrition
Board.
The main dietary sources of iron were vegetables, fruits, cereals and
cereal
products. Median serum ferritin concentrations were 14 ng/ml for YW and
28 ng/ml
for women > or = 50 years (old women, OW). In all, 40% (tri-index model
(TIM)
20%) of the YW and 12% (TIM 12%) of the OW were considered
iron-deficient based
on either serum ferritin levels of < 12 ng/ml or a TIM. Only 3 women
had blood
parameters which are defined as iron deficiency anemia. Correlations
between
serum ferritin levels and dietary factors were not found. CONCLUSION:
Although
the mean iron intake was above the recommended level, 40% (TIM 20%) of
the YW
were considered iron-deficient. It is suggested that especially YM on a
vegan
diet should have their iron status monitored and should consider taking
iron
supplements in case of a marginal status. Copyright 2004 S. Karger AG,
Basel

PMID: 14988640 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2: Public Health Nutr. 2003 Aug;6(5):485-96.

Risk factors for low iron intake and poor iron status in a national
sample of
British young people aged 4-18 years.

Thane CW, Bates CJ, Prentice A.

MRC Human Nutrition Research, Elsie Widdowson Laboratory, Fulbourn
Road, CB1
9NL, UK. christopher.thane@mrc-hnr.cam.ac.uk

OBJECTIVE: To examine the prevalence and dietary, sociodemographic and
lifestyle
risk factors of low iron intake and poor iron status in British young
people.
DESIGN: National Diet and Nutrition Survey of young people aged 4-18
years.
SETTING: Great Britain, 1997. SUBJECTS: In total, 1699 young people
provided
7-day weighed dietary records, of which 11% were excluded because the
participant reported being unwell with eating habits affected. Blood
was
obtained from 1193 participants, with iron status indicated by
haemoglobin,
serum ferritin and transferrin saturation. RESULTS: Iron intakes were
generally
adequate in most young people aged 4-18 years. However, low iron
intakes (below
the Lower Reference Nutrient Intake) occurred in 44% of adolescent
girls (11-18
years), being less prevalent with high consumption of breakfast
cereals. Low
haemoglobin concentration (<115 g l-1, 4-12 years; <120 or <130 g l-1,
13+ years
for girls and boys, respectively) was observed in 9% of children aged
4-6 years,
pubertal boys (11-14 years) and older girls (15-18 years). Adolescent
girls who
were non-Caucasians or vegetarians had significantly poorer iron status
than
Caucasians or meat eaters, independent of other risk factors. The three
iron
status indices were correlated significantly with haem, but not
non-haem, iron
intake. CONCLUSIONS: Adolescent girls showed the highest prevalence of
low iron
intake and poor iron status, with the latter independently associated
with
non-Caucasian ethnicity and vegetarianism. Risk of poor iron status may
be
reduced by consuming (particularly lean red) meat or enhancers of
non-haem iron
absorption (e.g. fruit or fruit juice) in vegetarians.

PMID: 12943565 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3: Eur J Haematol. 2002 Nov-Dec;69(5-6):275-9.

The impact of vegetarianism on some haematological parameters.

Obeid R, Geisel J, Schorr H, Hubner U, Herrmann W.

Department of Clinical Chemistry, university Hospital of Saarland,
Homburg,
Germany.

OBJECTIVE: Subjects adopting a vegetarian diet are liable to vitamin
B12 and
iron deficiencies. Co-existing vitamin B12 and iron deficiencies may
give an
equivocal haematological picture, which may, in turn, delay making an
early
diagnosis. The current work was undertaken to investigate some
haematological
parameters in relation to vitamin B12 and iron status in vegetarians.
SUBJECTS
AND METHODS: Twenty-nine vegans, 64 lacto- and lacto-ovo-vegetarians,
in
addition to 20 occasional meat eaters, were enrolled for this study.
The total
group included 49 males and 64 females aged [mean (SD) = 46(15) yr].
Complete
blood count, methylmalonic acid (MMA), homocysteine (HCY), ferritin,
and
transferrin concentrations and percentage transferrin saturation were
assayed,
using conventional methods. RESULTS: Vegans displayed the highest MMA
and HCY
levels (median MMA = 708 nmol L(-1); HCY = 12.8 micromol L(-1)). A
lower
lymphocyte count and a higher mean corpuscular volume (MCV) were found
in vegans
compared with lacto- or lacto-ovo-vegetarians (median = 1.51 x 10(9)
vs. 1.83 x
10(9) L(-1); 92 vs. 89 fL, respectively). Vitamin B12-deficient
subjects in the
higher range of transferrin saturation percentage had higher MCV than
vitamin
B12-deficient subjects in the lower transferrin saturation range (mean
MCV = 92
vs. 89 fL). A lower platelet count was found in the highest quartile of
MMA
(mean = 211 x 10(9) L(-1)) and in the highest quartile of HCY (mean =
215 x
10(9) L(-1)), compared with the other quartiles. Lower lymphocyte and
platelet
counts and higher MCV were found in subjects with elevated MMA and HCY,
compared
to those with normal metabolites. Factors that explained the variations
in MCV
were red blood cell count, ferritin, transferrin saturation, and
methylmalonic
acid levels. CONCLUSION: vitamin B12 and iron status were compromised
by a
vegetarian diet. Variations in mean corpuscular volume were determined
by iron
and vitamin B12 status. Lower lymphocyte and platelet count were
accompanied by
metabolic evidence that indicated vitamin B12 deficiency.

PMID: 12460231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4: Public Health Nutr. 2000 Dec;3(4):433-40.

Risk factors for poor iron status in British toddlers: further analysis
of data
from the National Diet and Nutrition Survey of children aged 1.5-4.5
years.

Thane CW, Walmsley CM, Bates CJ, Prentice A, Cole TJ.

MRC Human Nutrition Research, Cambridge, UK. thane@mrc-hnr.cam.ac.uk

OBJECTIVE:: To examine risk factors for poor iron status in British
toddlers.
DESIGN:: National Diet and Nutrition Survey (NDNS) of children aged
1.5-4.5
years. SETTING:: Mainland Britain, 1992/93. SUBJECTS:: Of the 1859
children
whose parents or guardians were interviewed, a weighed dietary intake
was
provided for 1675, and a blood sample obtained from 1003. RESULTS::
Mean
haemoglobin (Hb) and ferritin levels were significantly lower in
younger
(1.5-2.5 years) than in older (3.5-4.5 years) children, with boys
having
significantly lower ferritin levels than girls. Poor iron status
ferritin <10
microg l-1, or low values for both indices) was associated with lower
socioeconomic and employment status. Iron status was directly
associated with
meat and fruit consumption and inversely with that of milk and milk
products,
after adjustment for age and gender. The latter association remained
significant
after further adjustment for sociodemographic variables, energy intake
and body
weight. Children consuming >400 g day-1 of milk and cream were less
likely to
consume foods in other groups, with those also consuming little meat,
fish,
fruit and nuts at greatest risk of poor iron status. Few associations
were
observed between poor iron status and individual nutrient intakes, and
iron
status was not associated with either iron intake or with consumption
of a
vegetarian diet. CONCLUSIONS:: Overdependence on milk, where it
displaces
iron-rich or iron-enhancing foods, may put toddlers at increased risk
of poor
iron status. However, this becomes non-significant when
moderate-to-high amounts
of foods known to enhance iron status (e.g. meat and/or fruit) are also
consumed. Milk consumption in this age group should ideally be part of
a mixed
and balanced diet including all food groups, and particularly lean meat
(or
other iron-rich or fortified foods) and fruit. This is particularly
relevant for
households of lower socioeconomic and employment status.

PMID: 11135798 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-04-27, 8:53 am

Fine .. trot out some more ..

Trot em out till the cows come .. home ..

Give iron filings to them ..

That's a good .. boy ..

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

PeterB

2005-04-27, 11:49 am

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
> metabolically efficient than meat-based (heme) iron <<
>
> Don't know what you are attempting to say .. here .. but the iron is
> the same ..

It's not the same. The body requires all nutrients to be
intracellular, and iron is not toxic simply because it is "stored."
All minerals are stored in this way, whereas the potential for toxicity
exists for each mineral when oversupplied, not just iron. You are
making the case that iron is over-supplied through consumption of meat
and that people therefore should practice vegetarianism. Although it
appears there is research to support that too much intracellular iron
can cause illness, this is NOT the same as saying that consumption of
meat always leads to iron overload. One's overall diet and amounts of
individual foods eaten is a factor.

With respect to non-heme (plant-based) iron, the potential for harm is
unique to this form of the mineral. "Free iron" results when too
LITTLE iron is metabolized and provides sustanance to viral organisms
as a result of iron's oxidative properties. Even WITH vitamin C,
plant-based iron is poorly absorbed, probably topping out around 10%.
You would find that people who take lactoferrin improve their health
overall whether vegetarian or not, simply because it binds iron in the
bloodstream and reduces the potential for damage.

>
> Meat iron is absorbed at a higher rate ..

That's actually a GOOD thing, since less "free iron" is a good thing.
The possibility for excess intracellular iron is another consideration,
which has to do with overall amounts of iron consumed.

>
> Meat iron is the ssme as plant iron .. only bound chemically to ..
heme

That's what makes it different...

> ..
>
> Absorbed .. at all times ..
>
> Even when the body is attempting NOT to absorb so much iron ..

The body never attempts NOT to absorb nutrients. Absorption is ALWAYS
preferred, it's simply not always successful. This is exactly what
might lead to over-supply of the mineral at the cellular level. On the
other hand, if too much iron is left UN-metabolized, the reverse
occurs. Not ENOUGH iron enters the cells and "free iron" roams the
bloodstream to cause other kinds of damage. I am hoping you can look
at both sides of the potential for harm from either form of excess.

> You have to be still reading books from the past century ..

> Vegetarians have lower iron .. stores ..
>
> Stores ..
> Stores ..
>
> They do not have iron deficiency ..
> They do not have iron deficiency ..

There is plenty of clinical evidence showing otherwise.

> This is because all plant foods contain .. iron .. AND .. vitamin C
...
> and since vitamin C enhances the absorption of iron .. IF NEED BE ..
> then the vegetarian actually has ACCESS .. to .. MORE .. iron then a
> meat eater ..

The meat eater will always have more stored iron, unless he is
genetically compromised in some way. Isn't this the very premise of
your arguement that people shouldn't eat meat? I am just saying that
it's the AMOUNT of meat consumed that affects iron status.

Peter

Robert

2005-04-27, 5:57 pm

<ironjustice@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1114587603.796680.28160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Fine .. trot out some more ..
>
> Trot em out till the cows come .. home ..
>
> Give iron filings to them ..
>
> That's a good .. boy ..

Weak to non existent arguement.
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
> Man Is A Herbivore!
> http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
> http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
>

Robert

2005-04-27, 5:57 pm

You are trying to talk sense into someone who is not rational.
Good luck. Psychotherapy was tried early on with psychotics but the only
thing that helped them was meds.
Obsessive compulsives are the same way as are manic depressives.

"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114616097.300774.310260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
>
> It's not the same. The body requires all nutrients to be
> intracellular, and iron is not toxic simply because it is "stored."
> All minerals are stored in this way, whereas the potential for toxicity
> exists for each mineral when oversupplied, not just iron. You are
> making the case that iron is over-supplied through consumption of meat
> and that people therefore should practice vegetarianism. Although it
> appears there is research to support that too much intracellular iron
> can cause illness, this is NOT the same as saying that consumption of
> meat always leads to iron overload. One's overall diet and amounts of
> individual foods eaten is a factor.
>
> With respect to non-heme (plant-based) iron, the potential for harm is
> unique to this form of the mineral. "Free iron" results when too
> LITTLE iron is metabolized and provides sustanance to viral organisms
> as a result of iron's oxidative properties. Even WITH vitamin C,
> plant-based iron is poorly absorbed, probably topping out around 10%.
> You would find that people who take lactoferrin improve their health
> overall whether vegetarian or not, simply because it binds iron in the
> bloodstream and reduces the potential for damage.
>
>
> That's actually a GOOD thing, since less "free iron" is a good thing.
> The possibility for excess intracellular iron is another consideration,
> which has to do with overall amounts of iron consumed.
>
> heme
>
> That's what makes it different...
>
>
> The body never attempts NOT to absorb nutrients. Absorption is ALWAYS
> preferred, it's simply not always successful. This is exactly what
> might lead to over-supply of the mineral at the cellular level. On the
> other hand, if too much iron is left UN-metabolized, the reverse
> occurs. Not ENOUGH iron enters the cells and "free iron" roams the
> bloodstream to cause other kinds of damage. I am hoping you can look
> at both sides of the potential for harm from either form of excess.
>
>
>
> There is plenty of clinical evidence showing otherwise.
>
> ..
>
> The meat eater will always have more stored iron, unless he is
> genetically compromised in some way. Isn't this the very premise of
> your arguement that people shouldn't eat meat? I am just saying that
> it's the AMOUNT of meat consumed that affects iron status.
>
> Peter
>

Manky Badger

2005-04-27, 5:57 pm

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1114569602.139739.149220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Vegetarians have lower iron .. stores ..
> Stores ..
> Stores ..
> They do not have iron deficiency ..
> They do not have iron deficiency ..
>
>
> ============================

They are not yellow
They are not yellow
They are not yellow
.....

What's gone wrong, Tom ?

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-04-27, 10:53 pm

>>Fine .. trot out some more ..
Trot em out till the cows come .. home .. <<

I think that means you won't be convinced by any number of studies that
vegans are at special risk for iron deficiency. You believe otherwise
as a matter of faith, and won't be convinced by any amount of
scientific evidence to the contrary.

Fine, but then why bother to post here at all? Do you really think
you're going to convince anybody of what you say, when your reason for
believing it is not only evidence-free, but evidence-proof? You're just
babbling. You might as well talk about chromium instead of iron, and it
wouldn't make any difference.

SBH

SBH

slenon

2005-04-28, 8:53 am

MB:
>What's gone wrong, Tom ?

What has gone right? He's off his meds and needs another long session of
inpatient care, probably with several EST sessions.

Then, it is likely time to ship him off to Stockholm so that he can claim
his Nobel prize for Medicine that somehow had never been added to the
current roles.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
When the dawn came up like thunder
slenon@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/...page92kword.htm

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-04-28, 11:52 am

Listen .. cowboy ..

show me .. something ..

anything ..

Iron reduction therapy has been shown to be more effective in more
diseases than any infervention in history ..

YOU .. seem to wish to stick with .. unsound .. logic ..

Fine ..

But .. stay out of MY .. face ..

Dig ..?

I said .. "trot out as many medical studies as you want .."

Doesn't make them .. right ..

Makes them .. remain .. stupid ..

Fine ..

Proof is in the pudding ..

Killing Aids patients by giving them prophlactic iron ..

Fine ..

I suppose those people were ALSO .. 'considered /. evaluated /
diagnosed ' .. 'iron deficient' .. BY .. stupid men / women .. JUST
LIKE YOU .. and the result .. ?

Dead .. people ..

So .. read my lips .. Harris ..

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-04-28, 11:52 am

It seems you like to speak to a subject .. you simply don't ..
understand ..

Why do you attempt .. that ..?

It makes you look stupid .. but ONLY to those people who .. UNDERSTAND
...

The rest of the group here .. probably think you are .. on top of it ..

Since you want to step out and attempt to explain .. things ..

You should actually get your facts straight ..

Iron is CONTROLLED BY ABSORPTION ..

Since you DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT LITTLE DITTY ..

Stay .. off .. the .. threads .. which .. have .. to do .. WITH .. iron
...

Simply because .. your words .. alone .. hang your 'Iamstupid' ..
banner .. where EVERYONE .. can see it ..

Heh .. heh ..

...
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

PeterB

2005-04-28, 11:52 am

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
> It seems you like to speak to a subject .. you simply don't ..
> understand ..
>
> Why do you attempt .. that ..?
>
> It makes you look stupid .. but ONLY to those people who ..
UNDERSTAND
> ..
>
> The rest of the group here .. probably think you are .. on top of it
...
>
> Since you want to step out and attempt to explain .. things ..
>
> You should actually get your facts straight ..
>
> Iron is CONTROLLED BY ABSORPTION ..
>
> Since you DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT LITTLE DITTY ..
>
> Stay .. off .. the .. threads .. which .. have .. to do .. WITH ..
iron
> ..
>
> Simply because .. your words .. alone .. hang your 'Iamstupid' ..
> banner .. where EVERYONE .. can see it ..
>
> Heh .. heh ..

Now, Tom. It might interest you to know that I take an iron-free
supplement, because I agree that people often get too much iron.
People forget it's a trace mineral. Too little iron, though, is just
as bad as too much. I once gave up beef for 3 years and the effect was
that I became "floaty," an interesting sensation that became
distracting. Good luck on your "low iron/no iron" mission.

slenon

2005-04-28, 5:51 pm

Peter, you should know that tommy is not just on a mission, but a mission
from God.

Ask him about his Nobel Prize in Medicine. He's claimed he was awarded one
more than once. Must be true. Only a paranoid-schizophrenic,
obsessive-compulsive in need of therapy and medication, or an unschooled
liar would claim such an honor without having it in hand.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
When the dawn came up like thunder
slenon@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/...page92kword.htm

PeterB

2005-04-28, 5:51 pm

slenon wrote:
> Peter, you should know that tommy is not just on a mission, but a
mission
> from God.
>
> Ask him about his Nobel Prize in Medicine. He's claimed he was
awarded one
> more than once. Must be true. Only a paranoid-schizophrenic,
> obsessive-compulsive in need of therapy and medication, or an
unschooled
> liar would claim such an honor without having it in hand.
>
> --
> Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
> When the dawn came up like thunder
> slenon@tampabay.rr.com
> http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/...page92kword.htm

I always ask myself whether someone who presents himself anonymously as
an expert isn't really a charlatan, and whether someone who presents
himself anonymously as a lunatic isn't really a humorist. With all the
shady characters in the newsgroup, I wouldn't be so quick to judge him.

Manky Badger

2005-04-28, 5:51 pm

"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114714325.143881.298760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> slenon wrote:
> mission
> awarded one
> unschooled
>
> I always ask myself whether someone who presents himself anonymously as
> an expert isn't really a charlatan, and whether someone who presents
> himself anonymously as a lunatic isn't really a humorist. With all the
> shady characters in the newsgroup, I wouldn't be so quick to judge him.

Oh - do look him up on Google. It makes VERY interesting reading.
If you have good antivirus software, have a root round his website.

He posts all this stuff which at first sight may appear rather rational, but
any attempt to discuss the posts soon degenerates into petty name calling,
abuse, and even threats of physical violence.
You can also tell how stressed he's getting by the amount of ..... between
words.

But, I must admit that I'm still not 100% convinced he's not just trolling.
If he were, it's a bloody good troll !

slenon

2005-04-28, 5:51 pm

PeterB:
>I always ask myself whether someone who presents himself anonymously as
>an expert isn't really a charlatan, and whether someone who presents
>himself anonymously as a lunatic isn't really a humorist. With all the
>shady characters in the newsgroup, I wouldn't be so quick to judge him.

Commendable behavior on your part. Now ask him about his Nobel Award. If
he denies it, there's always this bit of documentation.
"nternadoc Dec 14 2002, 9:43 pm show options

Newsgroups: sci.med.laboratory
From: interna...@aol.com (Internadoc) - Find messages by this author
Date: 15 Dec 2002 05:42:58 GMT
Local: Sat,Dec 14 2002 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: What is it with the iron ?
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse

>doe" <ironjust...@aol.comdoe> wrote in message
> And as 'per my qualifications' .. I AM A FRIGGIN NOBEL PRIZE WINNER ..

>My credentials are . . every medical article I post ..

>And if THAT doesn't make me a NOBEL PRIZE WINNER .. I don't know what would
>"
>..

IMO that speaks volumes.
--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
When the dawn came up like thunder
slenon@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/...page92kword.htm

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-04-28, 5:51 pm

> Vegetarians have lower iron .. stores ..
> Stores ..
> Stores ..
> They do not have iron deficiency ..
> They do not have iron deficiency ..

> ============================

They are not yellow
They are not yellow
They are not yellow
.....

What's gone wrong, Tom ?

==========================

COMMENT:

Nothing. Yellow is great. Yellow is mellow.
Pale is hale. Pasty is nifty. Sallow is slammin.

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-04-28, 5:51 pm

>>Iron reduction therapy has been shown to be more effective in more
diseases than any infervention in history .. <<

COMMENT:
No, that would be NSAID therapy.

[vbcol=seagreen]
Fine ..
But .. stay out of MY .. face .. Dig...? <<

COMMENT:

Hey, Tom, screw you. Suck iron rich vampire bat guano and die.

I will do exactly as I please here. Get used to it.

[vbcol=seagreen]

How can I read your bloodless fanatical lips, when they're stuck to a
mirror all the time? Uncross your eyes and take a look at the world.

SBH

PS. There actually is evidence that iron excretion is enhanced in
hemochromatosis. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your worldview, but
there a bit of control in excretion, even with non-water soluble
microminerals.

Robert

2005-04-28, 10:53 pm

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-05-01, 5:56 pm

slenon

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

ironjustice@aol.com

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

PeterB

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

PeterB

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm

Robert

2005-05-01, 10:55 pm