Psoriasis support - Methotrexate

Author

Methotrexate

Robert

2006-07-29, 8:26 am

Hi

Its been a while since I have been here.... Its been 2 courses of
Gengraf (with deminishing returns) and then another try at soriatane
(mad me mad as a hatter).

So now I have been off the soritane for about a month and on
methotrexate for about the same lenths of time... my first 4 weeks are
at (3) 2.5 mg tablets on friday and now Im at (3) on Friday and (2) on
monday.... I have almost no expirence with this particular med as the
doctor at the clinic when I first tried it.. never let me have more
then 3 per week.

I am in the midst of a massive flare being off the soriatane and I
guess im just wondering what to expect from the methotrexate... and
maybe someone has an Idea how long and how well it might work?

Robert

I originaly posted this in the slightly more defunct psoriasis
group... when here.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

GrandpaChuck

2006-07-29, 4:25 pm

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:28:01 -0400, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>Hi
>
>Its been a while since I have been here.... Its been 2 courses of
>Gengraf (with deminishing returns) and then another try at soriatane
>(mad me mad as a hatter).
>
>So now I have been off the soritane for about a month and on
>methotrexate for about the same lenths of time... my first 4 weeks are
>at (3) 2.5 mg tablets on friday and now Im at (3) on Friday and (2) on
>monday.... I have almost no expirence with this particular med as the
>doctor at the clinic when I first tried it.. never let me have more
>then 3 per week.
>
>I am in the midst of a massive flare being off the soriatane and I
>guess im just wondering what to expect from the methotrexate... and
>maybe someone has an Idea how long and how well it might work?
>
>Robert
>
>I originaly posted this in the slightly more defunct psoriasis
>group... when here.
>---
>
>Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

We are all individuals, which means we may not all get the same
results.

I take two 2.5 mg tablets on Monday morning, again on Monday
afternoon, and repeat the routine on Tuesday. I started out on a dose
similar to what you are taking and the doctor increased it over a
period of about three months until we reached the level I am at now. I
noticed my plaques becoming smaller with about three weeks of starting
on Methotrexate. Within about eight months I was over 90% cleared. I
had two golf ball sized lesions on my rib cage and a large one on my
back that just would not go away. Eventually, the two on my ribs did
fade and disappear. Now I am left with the large plaque on my back
just above my belt line. It is about 3.5 inches high and the plaque is
thin. It formerly was at least 8 inches long and it was very thick
plaque.

I have been on Methotrexate for at least three years. It has also
relieved my PA in my hands tremendously. At first I had a blood test
every week, then every two weeks for the first year or so. Now I have
the blood work once a month since my liver numbers have stayed in the
normal range.

I wish you the best of luck with taking Methotrexate. By the way, I am
a 66 years old and this is the first time I have been lesion free in
my life. That is pretty darned impressive to me. I still won't let my
hair grow out because I am afraid it might come back on my scalp.
Also, my wife Laurie says she wouldn't be able to recognize me with
hair again and she likes my smooth scalp. (No accounting for taste, I
guess.)

Keep us informed of your experiences.

--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~

The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of July 27, 2006 is 2,574. Americans wounded = more than 18,777 United Kingdom = 114 Other = 115
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most of them by the so-called insurgents.
Today, July 29, 2006 it has been 1185 days since Bush declared,"Mission Accomplished in Iraq." Why do some people still believe what he says?

Robert

2006-07-30, 4:25 pm

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:06:23 GMT, GrandpaChuck <GrandpaChuck@B4ME.org>
wrote:

>
>We are all individuals, which means we may not all get the same
>results.
>
>I take two 2.5 mg tablets on Monday morning, again on Monday
>afternoon, and repeat the routine on Tuesday. I started out on a dose
>similar to what you are taking and the doctor increased it over a
>period of about three months until we reached the level I am at now. I
>noticed my plaques becoming smaller with about three weeks of starting
>on Methotrexate. Within about eight months I was over 90% cleared. I
>had two golf ball sized lesions on my rib cage and a large one on my
>back that just would not go away. Eventually, the two on my ribs did
>fade and disappear. Now I am left with the large plaque on my back
>just above my belt line. It is about 3.5 inches high and the plaque is
>thin. It formerly was at least 8 inches long and it was very thick
>plaque.
>
>I have been on Methotrexate for at least three years. It has also
>relieved my PA in my hands tremendously. At first I had a blood test
>every week, then every two weeks for the first year or so. Now I have
>the blood work once a month since my liver numbers have stayed in the
>normal range.
>
>I wish you the best of luck with taking Methotrexate. By the way, I am
>a 66 years old and this is the first time I have been lesion free in
>my life. That is pretty darned impressive to me. I still won't let my
>hair grow out because I am afraid it might come back on my scalp.
>Also, my wife Laurie says she wouldn't be able to recognize me with
>hair again and she likes my smooth scalp. (No accounting for taste, I
>guess.)
>
>Keep us informed of your experiences.

Hi

Its nice to hear from you.... I hope that MTX works for me as well as
it did for you. My situation here is extreme.... I am a bloody mess
and for all intents unable to do anything but scratch.

Il try to keep in touch.. but it might be hard.

Thanks
Robert
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Robert

2006-07-30, 4:25 pm

Thats the way My derm told me to do it...I suspect she is being over
cautious.... I have been through most of everthing else except a
couple of the newer injectables... So far I havent done well with
injectables.

Robert

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:52:51 GMT, flightyswine
<flightyswine@bigpond.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>Are you saying ypu have 7.5mg MTX on Friday and another 5mg MTX on
>Monday? That's unusual, I believe. I have heard of splitting the dose
>over 2 days (eg half satuday pm and the other half sunday am ) but never
>over 2 seperate days.
>
>Robert wrote:
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

GrandpaChuck

2006-07-30, 4:25 pm

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:53:15 -0400, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:06:23 GMT, GrandpaChuck <GrandpaChuck@B4ME.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Hi
>
>Its nice to hear from you.... I hope that MTX works for me as well as
>it did for you. My situation here is extreme.... I am a bloody mess
>and for all intents unable to do anything but scratch.
>
>Il try to keep in touch.. but it might be hard.
>
>Thanks
>Robert
>---
>
>Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Good luck to you Robert. I can sure identify with the itching, weeping
and bleeding. I used to joke with my derm and his nurse by asking, "If
we ever relieve all this what will I do with my hands since I won't be
scratching 24/7?"

--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~

The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of July 27, 2006 is 2,574. Americans wounded = more than 18,777 United Kingdom = 114 Other = 115
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most of them by the so-called insurgents.
Today, July 30, 2006 it has been 1186 days since Bush declared,"Mission Accomplished in Iraq." Why do some people still believe what he says?

raydon14yp

2006-07-30, 9:24 pm

Have your MD, or a different MD, check out the dosage of mtx. I have never
heard of it taken the way you describe. It is NOT as dangerous of a drug
as a lot of MDs think it is in the dosage that is prescribed for
psoriasis. Just have your liver enzymes checked about every 3 months via
blood tests. I have been on mtx, 15mg per week, for over 21 years.

Robert

2006-07-30, 9:24 pm

My derm seems fairly compitant... on the other hand... my medical
doctor is a boob.... and I only tolerate him because he haas to make
out the referals for derm.

I wiegh in at about 262 pounds.... unless docs scale is broke im down
from 309 , My derm has said she would feel comfortable going as high
as 20mg per week. I still have a standing order for bloodwork from the
soriatane.. my derm this this is ok for mtx.

Now that I think about it... your point is that 2.5 x 5 = 12.5 is that
its low... Il have to talk to my derm after my next bloodwork.

Thanks
Robert

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:24:04 -0400, "raydon14yp"
<dstall@nospam.cinci.rr.com> wrote:

>Have your MD, or a different MD, check out the dosage of mtx. I have never
>heard of it taken the way you describe. It is NOT as dangerous of a drug
>as a lot of MDs think it is in the dosage that is prescribed for
>psoriasis. Just have your liver enzymes checked about every 3 months via
>blood tests. I have been on mtx, 15mg per week, for over 21 years.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

movdsouth

2006-07-30, 9:24 pm

I have taken methotrexate off and on since about 1982, and am now 47
years old. I've had some good years with it, some not so good. I have
varied my doses from 2.5 x 9 pills split over 2 days, 3 at 10pm, 3 at
10 am, 3 at 10 pm. Spreading it out helps the nausea. I got used to
being sick 2 days after my dose and just accepted it as part of life.
In the summer I would lower the dose, up it in the winter and always
mix it with another treatment from PUVA to UVB to UVA lights to
whatever other miracle drug of the year was. The drug is not as
dangerous as it was once thought and most dermatologists are happy with
a blood test once a month. When I first started they wanted liver
biopsies, not anymore. I woke up with the disease when I was about 20
and have tried everything including voodoo and up until last year swore
to the greatness of methotrexate until I tried to raptiva and have
never ever ever ever been this clear before. It's expensive even with
insurance but there are numerous programs to help pay. I get my 20%
out of pocket paid by a grant. If you are interested please feel free
to contact me and I will share the few grant programs I know about.
I still think after all these years and all the pain and embarassment
there is no substitute better then good old fashioned sunshine. I say
this even after being 80% covered and crying on my way to the beach.

Good luck to all of us with this annoying disease!

Beth
Robert wrote:
> My derm seems fairly compitant... on the other hand... my medical
> doctor is a boob.... and I only tolerate him because he haas to make
> out the referals for derm.
>
> I wiegh in at about 262 pounds.... unless docs scale is broke im down
> from 309 , My derm has said she would feel comfortable going as high
> as 20mg per week. I still have a standing order for bloodwork from the
> soriatane.. my derm this this is ok for mtx.
>
> Now that I think about it... your point is that 2.5 x 5 = 12.5 is that
> its low... Il have to talk to my derm after my next bloodwork.
>
> Thanks
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:24:04 -0400, "raydon14yp"
> <dstall@nospam.cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ---
>
> Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Guy Kudlemyer

2006-07-31, 4:27 pm

I gave up on the pills about 20 years ago. My derm prescribed the
injectable. No, I don't inject it, I drink it--in juice, water, milk,
whatever. I take about .24 ml per week, which equals less than 1 mg. It's
far more effective in liquid form, and FAR CHEAPER. I've been doing this
since 1979. Request it from your derm...

--Guy
Thurston, Oregon

On 7/30/06 6:51 PM, in article
1154310712.585086.241850@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "movdsouth"
<movdsouth@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have taken methotrexate off and on since about 1982, and am now 47
> years old. I've had some good years with it, some not so good. I have
> varied my doses from 2.5 x 9 pills split over 2 days, 3 at 10pm, 3 at
> 10 am, 3 at 10 pm. Spreading it out helps the nausea. I got used to
> being sick 2 days after my dose and just accepted it as part of life.
> In the summer I would lower the dose, up it in the winter and always
> mix it with another treatment from PUVA to UVB to UVA lights to
> whatever other miracle drug of the year was. The drug is not as
> dangerous as it was once thought and most dermatologists are happy with
> a blood test once a month. When I first started they wanted liver
> biopsies, not anymore. I woke up with the disease when I was about 20
> and have tried everything including voodoo and up until last year swore
> to the greatness of methotrexate until I tried to raptiva and have
> never ever ever ever been this clear before. It's expensive even with
> insurance but there are numerous programs to help pay. I get my 20%
> out of pocket paid by a grant. If you are interested please feel free
> to contact me and I will share the few grant programs I know about.
> I still think after all these years and all the pain and embarassment
> there is no substitute better then good old fashioned sunshine. I say
> this even after being 80% covered and crying on my way to the beach.
>
> Good luck to all of us with this annoying disease!
>
> Beth
> Robert wrote:
>

Daffman

2006-08-02, 9:26 pm

Hi,
After seeing my dermatologist and rheumatologist, I was told that I needed
to increase my mtx level to 25mg...in other words 10 pills....I take four on
Sunday AM, four on Sunday PM and 2 on Monday AM....All my research into the
drug says the most recommended dose is 30 mg/week, but for psoriasis it
takes more than psoriatic arthritis, which means I need to take more than
if I just had mild psoriasis. Anyway, hope that helps....it doesn't work
for me anyway, for psoriasis anyway, so I am beginning Enbrel in two weeks
time....
Sali

Robert

2006-08-03, 2:25 am

Actually this is exactly what Im looking for. To expect that everyone
would benefit from MTX would be I guess Unrealistic. Of course I hope
it does work for me.... When seem to have gotten one thing
backwards... I did the enbrel and it diddnt go anything for me.. But I
wish you luck and hope it works for you.

Thanks
Robert

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:40:30 GMT, "Daffman" <daffman@yeah.right.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>After seeing my dermatologist and rheumatologist, I was told that I needed
>to increase my mtx level to 25mg...in other words 10 pills....I take four on
>Sunday AM, four on Sunday PM and 2 on Monday AM....All my research into the
>drug says the most recommended dose is 30 mg/week, but for psoriasis it
>takes more than psoriatic arthritis, which means I need to take more than
>if I just had mild psoriasis. Anyway, hope that helps....it doesn't work
>for me anyway, for psoriasis anyway, so I am beginning Enbrel in two weeks
>time....
>Sali
>
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Robert

2006-08-03, 2:25 am

Hi

Thanks for your input. I would have responded quite a bit earlier but
I was sort of away from my desk.

I agree about sunlight and I live within walking distance of at least
1 beach and a short drive for 3 others... But its hard to go to the
beach.... Once im in the water it isnt so bad... but as soon as I pop
the shirt off its like everyone on the beach is looking at me... valid
perception or not im not sure.. but it feels like it is.

I guess I was about 32 when the P started to manifest... about the
time my grandmother passed... Might have been the trigger. It started
on the scalp and spread like wildfire. Im 45 now... so it was like 13
years.

I have done fairly well in the local tanning places.... the standard
tan... like at hollywood tans is a very wide UV , Mostly Uva but also
some uvb. The better tan box's are almost entirely UVA and at about 4$
per session of 20$/per month its a lot cheaper then the 50$ a shot UVB
booths... but as with anything.. mileage will tend to vary.

Nice to hear from you

Robert

On 30 Jul 2006 18:51:52 -0700, "movdsouth" <movdsouth@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I have taken methotrexate off and on since about 1982, and am now 47
>years old. I've had some good years with it, some not so good. I have
>varied my doses from 2.5 x 9 pills split over 2 days, 3 at 10pm, 3 at
>10 am, 3 at 10 pm. Spreading it out helps the nausea. I got used to
>being sick 2 days after my dose and just accepted it as part of life.
>In the summer I would lower the dose, up it in the winter and always
>mix it with another treatment from PUVA to UVB to UVA lights to
>whatever other miracle drug of the year was. The drug is not as
>dangerous as it was once thought and most dermatologists are happy with
>a blood test once a month. When I first started they wanted liver
>biopsies, not anymore. I woke up with the disease when I was about 20
>and have tried everything including voodoo and up until last year swore
>to the greatness of methotrexate until I tried to raptiva and have
>never ever ever ever been this clear before. It's expensive even with
>insurance but there are numerous programs to help pay. I get my 20%
>out of pocket paid by a grant. If you are interested please feel free
>to contact me and I will share the few grant programs I know about.
>I still think after all these years and all the pain and embarassment
>there is no substitute better then good old fashioned sunshine. I say
>this even after being 80% covered and crying on my way to the beach.
>
>Good luck to all of us with this annoying disease!
>
>Beth
>Robert wrote:
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Nann Bell

2006-08-03, 4:29 pm

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 3:08:48 -0400, Robert wrote
(in message <q383d29n2vpqs0246lca96ou3pbcru61a2@4ax.com> ):

> Actually this is exactly what Im looking for. To expect that everyone
> would benefit from MTX would be I guess Unrealistic. Of course I hope
> it does work for me.... When seem to have gotten one thing
> backwards... I did the enbrel and it diddnt go anything for me.. But I
> wish you luck and hope it works for you.
>
> Thanks
> Robert

ok, then - I'm another who didn't clear with mtx. Interestingly, my Ps has
always been mild in coverage and fairly responsive to OTC coal tar, as long
as I stay on top of treating the lesions. Of course the scalp and inside the
ear canals were challanges that could only be reduced rather than controlled.
It was NOT bad enough to warrant systemic meds, I went on mtx for my PA
which has been much worse than the Ps. At 20 mg, my P was as active as
before, BUT it did respond to topicals noticeably faster. It did let me
relax a bit in my treatment.

When we added arava to the mix for PA, I cleared completely. Arava and mtx
are NOT generally recommended, but insurance issues made enbrel impossible
for a while. When insurance improved, we traded the arava for Enbrel,
keeping mtx, and I stayed clear. Then some possible liver issues started
showing up in my blood work and we took me off mtx last Feb. Since then, my
genital P has returned and I am now back to using topicals on it. I do
believe it is still responding more readily than it did in the "old" days,
without the Enbrel support.

Even with mild coverage, with the places it has always endured for me, esp.
genitals and ear canals, it was so very nice to be completely clear for 4
years after 30 years of life with coal tar.

--
Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Daffman

2006-08-06, 9:24 pm

well I am glad that this is the information you are looking for. As for
steroid creams and stuff, I use dovanex scalp solution for my lesion on my
scalp. It seems to keep it at bay as long as I keep on top of it. The only
problem with that drug if used in both cream and lotion is that it is a
Vitamin D deficient, so you can become low on Vitamin D and get dizzy
spells. I found this out from a doctor when I started to have really bad
dizzy spells, turns out I wasn't Vitamin D deficient, but he wanted to check
just in case. Anyway, ointment and creams just ruin my clothes, not much
else....I could use Vaseline and it would do the same at raising off the
plaques. As for the PA, 25 mg of mxt works great, actually 20 mg worked
fine, the only reason for the increase is for the PS plaques, which cover
about 35% of my body, really sucks in the summer, I get better with the sun,
but I can't go out for long periods because of the mtx...I never used to
burn and a couple of weeks ago I looked like Christmas Turkey gone
bad....cooked to a crisp on my shoulders, arms, back and chest. I used to
stand on water front all summer and only ever got tanned, this summer I was
out for 3 hours and turned into Lester the lobster.....anyway,.....ttyl
Sali

giurgiu

2006-08-08, 8:24 am

DENIPLANT leader in psoriasis...a therapy with plants without ointments
or diet.
Deniplant is a new discovery in medicine because treates the intern
causes that produce and develop psoriasis and other skin diseases. for
more detailes please visit :

http://www.deniplant.ro or http://www.psoriazis-deniplant.ro

GrandpaChuck

2006-08-08, 4:28 pm

Spam like this is not appreciated and is not permitted on this
newsgroup.

On 8 Aug 2006 04:32:47 -0700, "giurgiu" <giurgiu@deniplant.ro> wrote:

>DENIPLANT leader in psoriasis...a therapy with plants without ointments
>or diet.
>Deniplant is a new discovery in medicine because treates the intern
>causes that produce and develop psoriasis and other skin diseases. for
>more detailes please visit :
>
>
>http://www.deniplant.ro or http://www.psoriazis-deniplant.ro

--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~

The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of August 06, 2006 is 2,592. Americans wounded = more than 18,777 United Kingdom = 115 Other = 115
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most of them by the so-called insurgents.
Today, August 7, 2006 it has been 1194 days since Bush declared,"Mission Accomplished in Iraq." Why do some people still believe what he says?

Robert

2006-09-11, 2:25 am

In case anyone is wondering... on my 3rd month no marked improvment or
worsening... I do have some very nasty cold sores though... Related or
poor dentistry I cant say.

Robert

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:28:01 -0400, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>Hi
>
>Its been a while since I have been here.... Its been 2 courses of
>Gengraf (with deminishing returns) and then another try at soriatane
>(mad me mad as a hatter).
>
>So now I have been off the soritane for about a month and on
>methotrexate for about the same lenths of time... my first 4 weeks are
>at (3) 2.5 mg tablets on friday and now Im at (3) on Friday and (2) on
>monday.... I have almost no expirence with this particular med as the
>doctor at the clinic when I first tried it.. never let me have more
>then 3 per week.
>
>I am in the midst of a massive flare being off the soriatane and I
>guess im just wondering what to expect from the methotrexate... and
>maybe someone has an Idea how long and how well it might work?
>
>Robert
>
>I originaly posted this in the slightly more defunct psoriasis
>group... when here.
>---
>
>Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Nann Bell

2006-09-11, 9:29 pm

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 0:42:31 -0400, Robert wrote
(in message <67q9g29fse01mfbga16jqbfq6s54dbqn51@4ax.com> ):

> In case anyone is wondering... on my 3rd month no marked improvment or
> worsening... I do have some very nasty cold sores though... Related or
> poor dentistry I cant say.
>
> Robert
>

I don't recall whether I replied to you before or not, but mtx alone did NOT
clear my P. Rather ironic as my coverage has always been mild and responsive
(eventually) to topical coal tar. Mtx DID speed up the response to topicals.
My P has been completely clear only when I've been on 2 DMARDs for PsA.

As for the cold sore, do they have you taking folic acid or leucovorin (sp?)
with your mtx? Mtx depletes flic acid so you need major replacement of it,
mouth sores is a prime indicator that you need more folic acid. I was always
told if I had mouth sores or bleeding gums to increase my daily folic acid.
It worked delightfully fast.

--
Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Robert

2006-09-12, 4:29 pm

Hi

Thanks for the tip... I might even have some folic acid here
somewhere.

Robert

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:09:23 GMT, Nann Bell
<hanbellGOGATORS@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 0:42:31 -0400, Robert wrote
>(in message <67q9g29fse01mfbga16jqbfq6s54dbqn51@4ax.com> ):
>
>
>I don't recall whether I replied to you before or not, but mtx alone did NOT
>clear my P. Rather ironic as my coverage has always been mild and responsive
>(eventually) to topical coal tar. Mtx DID speed up the response to topicals.
> My P has been completely clear only when I've been on 2 DMARDs for PsA.
>
>As for the cold sore, do they have you taking folic acid or leucovorin (sp?)
>with your mtx? Mtx depletes flic acid so you need major replacement of it,
>mouth sores is a prime indicator that you need more folic acid. I was always
>told if I had mouth sores or bleeding gums to increase my daily folic acid.
>It worked delightfully fast.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Robert

2006-09-15, 2:24 am

So far not much luck with the folic acid... Im pretty sure these sores
relate to the MTX as they suddenly got wose after taking it. At any
rate Folic accid is cheap... just over 2$ for a 3 month supply at 400
MCG per day.

How long did it take to help you Nann?

Thanks
Robert

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:09:23 GMT, Nann Bell
<hanbellGOGATORS@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 0:42:31 -0400, Robert wrote
>(in message <67q9g29fse01mfbga16jqbfq6s54dbqn51@4ax.com> ):
>
>
>I don't recall whether I replied to you before or not, but mtx alone did NOT
>clear my P. Rather ironic as my coverage has always been mild and responsive
>(eventually) to topical coal tar. Mtx DID speed up the response to topicals.
> My P has been completely clear only when I've been on 2 DMARDs for PsA.
>
>As for the cold sore, do they have you taking folic acid or leucovorin (sp?)
>with your mtx? Mtx depletes flic acid so you need major replacement of it,
>mouth sores is a prime indicator that you need more folic acid. I was always
>told if I had mouth sores or bleeding gums to increase my daily folic acid.
>It worked delightfully fast.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Robert

2006-09-21, 4:26 pm

Discontinued Mtx today , too many mouth ulcers.

Doctor is trying to get me approaved for Humira.

Robert
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

GrandpaChuck

2006-09-21, 4:26 pm

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:07:39 GMT, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>Discontinued Mtx today , too many mouth ulcers.
>
>Doctor is trying to get me approaved for Humira.
>
>Robert
>---
>
>Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Wow!
Sorry to hear that, but it does give me something to watch for. I had
one on the underside of my tongue that finally went away spontaneously
after over six months.

Good luck to you.
Keep us informed.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of September 21, 2006 is 2,692. United Kingdom = 118 Other = 116.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.
More than 19,910 Americans wounded.
09/21/2006 it’s 1237 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."

Robert

2006-09-21, 4:26 pm

Will do.

The mtx was starting to show some signs of working.
Im a bit bummed... I guess its life.

Thanks
Robert

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:21:36 GMT, GrandpaChuck <GrandpaChuck@B4ME.org>
wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:07:39 GMT, Robert
><not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>
>
>Wow!
>Sorry to hear that, but it does give me something to watch for. I had
>one on the underside of my tongue that finally went away spontaneously
>after over six months.
>
>Good luck to you.
>Keep us informed.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

JXStern

2006-09-21, 9:34 pm

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:42:31 -0400, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>In case anyone is wondering... on my 3rd month no marked improvment or
>worsening... I do have some very nasty cold sores though... Related or
>poor dentistry I cant say.

Presume cold sores are herpes simplex virus.

Not likely related to dentistry.

Could be related to mtx:

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/mtx_ad.htm

The most frequently reported adverse reactions include ulcerative
stomatitis, leukopenia, nausea, and abdominal distress. Other
frequently reported adverse effects are malaise, undue fatigue, chills
and fever, dizziness and decreased resistance to infection.

Other adverse reactions that have been reported with methotrexate are
listed below by organ system. In the oncology setting, concomitant
treatment and the underlying disease make specific attribution of a
reaction to methotrexate difficult.

Alimentary System: gingivitis, pharyngitis, stomatitis, anorexia,
nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hematemesis, melena, gastrointestinal
ulceration and bleeding, enteritis, pancreatitis

....

Infection: There have been case reports of sometimes fatal
opportunistic infections in patients receiving methotrexate therapy
for neoplastic and non-neoplastic diseases. Pneumocystis carinii
pneumonia was the most common infection. Other reported infections
included nocardiosis; histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, Herpes zoster,
H. simplex hepatitis, and disseminated H. simplex

--

Sorry to hear, hope you get approval for Humira, and that that works
better.

J.

GrandpaChuck

2006-09-21, 9:34 pm

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:47:45 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:42:31 -0400, Robert
><not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>
>
>Presume cold sores are herpes simplex virus.
>
>Not likely related to dentistry.

Mine was more like canker sore. In fact that is what I thought it was
until it refused to heal. It was an open lesion. I figured one of the
reasons it too so long is because of my diabetes, even though I have
very good control of my blood glucose.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of September 21, 2006 is 2,692. United Kingdom = 118 Other = 116.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.
More than 19,910 Americans wounded.
09/21/2006 it’s 1237 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."

Robert

2006-09-22, 2:32 am

Hi Jx

Its nice to hear from you... this is not a very good day for me ,
these ulcers make it very hard to eat. When I can eat they tend to
burn like fire. I hope they do go away and pretty fast.

When I first noticed what I thought was a cold sore I did a goggle
search and found much the same information as you have listed below. I
think I even suprised my derm. She said something about every medicine
i try having some bad side effect... or just not working.

But I do look forward to the future with some hope and I hope the
Humira does help just as I hope this tiny thread might help someone
also.. maybe they wont wait so long as I did to tell the derm doctor
about this problem.

Regards
Robert

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:47:45 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:

>Presume cold sores are herpes simplex virus.
>
>Not likely related to dentistry.
>
>Could be related to mtx:
>
>http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/mtx_ad.htm
>
>The most frequently reported adverse reactions include ulcerative
>stomatitis, leukopenia, nausea, and abdominal distress. Other
>frequently reported adverse effects are malaise, undue fatigue, chills
>and fever, dizziness and decreased resistance to infection.
>
>Other adverse reactions that have been reported with methotrexate are
>listed below by organ system. In the oncology setting, concomitant
>treatment and the underlying disease make specific attribution of a
>reaction to methotrexate difficult.
>
>Alimentary System: gingivitis, pharyngitis, stomatitis, anorexia,
>nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hematemesis, melena, gastrointestinal
>ulceration and bleeding, enteritis, pancreatitis
>
>...
>
>Infection: There have been case reports of sometimes fatal
>opportunistic infections in patients receiving methotrexate therapy
>for neoplastic and non-neoplastic diseases. Pneumocystis carinii
>pneumonia was the most common infection. Other reported infections
>included nocardiosis; histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, Herpes zoster,
>H. simplex hepatitis, and disseminated H. simplex
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

JXStern

2006-09-22, 4:27 pm

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:08:41 GMT, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>Hi Jx
>
>Its nice to hear from you... this is not a very good day for me ,
>these ulcers make it very hard to eat. When I can eat they tend to
>burn like fire. I hope they do go away and pretty fast.
>
>When I first noticed what I thought was a cold sore I did a goggle
>search and found much the same information as you have listed below. I
>think I even suprised my derm. She said something about every medicine
>i try having some bad side effect... or just not working.

Well, there are drugs now that reduce herpes symptoms, if your sores
are that serious (and they might want to test to confirm the are just
standard cold sores), it might be justified to try some drugs. With
the diabetes on top of that ... have you tried Avandia, IIRC that's a
newer diabetes drug they now want to try on psoriasis anyway.

Who knows, there might be some underlying condition, virus or
something, you've had for a while that's aggravated the p, treat the
virus and maybe you'll do better overall. Sounds like a case for Dr.
House!

J.

Robert

2006-09-23, 8:27 am

My situation has quickly moved on to the rediculous.

I can barely talk... my lower lips and hanging and Im drooling all
over the place... I can barely eat and barely drink... and this stuff
hurts.. if this stuff dosent resolve pretty fast im going to have to
go to the ER. On top of this i strongly suspect I also picked up a
sinus infection...

Mtx is not my drug of choice.... to be fair it may have been
pre-existing conditions that the mtx upset but either way its nasty.

At this point the thread is more about the side effect of mtx then P ,
bear with me here.... Im just driping with expirience here... SOrry
couldnt help myself... odd I havent lost at least part of my sence of
humur.

Robert

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:02:25 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:08:41 GMT, Robert
><not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>
>
>Well, there are drugs now that reduce herpes symptoms, if your sores
>are that serious (and they might want to test to confirm the are just
>standard cold sores), it might be justified to try some drugs. With
>the diabetes on top of that ... have you tried Avandia, IIRC that's a
>newer diabetes drug they now want to try on psoriasis anyway.
>
>Who knows, there might be some underlying condition, virus or
>something, you've had for a while that's aggravated the p, treat the
>virus and maybe you'll do better overall. Sounds like a case for Dr.
>House!
>
>J.
>
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Tom Trevathan

2006-09-23, 4:26 pm

I've never heard of such a side effect with methotrexate. I suggest you call
your physician immediately and consider going to the ER.
TomRobert wrote:
> My situation has quickly moved on to the rediculous.
>
> I can barely talk... my lower lips and hanging and Im drooling all
> over the place... I can barely eat and barely drink... and this stuff
> hurts.. if this stuff dosent resolve pretty fast im going to have to
> go to the ER. On top of this i strongly suspect I also picked up a
> sinus infection...
>
> Mtx is not my drug of choice.... to be fair it may have been
> pre-existing conditions that the mtx upset but either way its nasty.
>
> At this point the thread is more about the side effect of mtx then P ,
> bear with me here.... Im just driping with expirience here... SOrry
> couldnt help myself... odd I havent lost at least part of my sence of
> humur.
>
> Robert
>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:02:25 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
> ---
>
> Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

JXStern

2006-09-23, 9:31 pm

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:42:45 GMT, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>My situation has quickly moved on to the rediculous.
>
>I can barely talk... my lower lips and hanging and Im drooling all
>over the place... I can barely eat and barely drink... and this stuff
>hurts.. if this stuff dosent resolve pretty fast im going to have to
>go to the ER.

Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!

J.

Robert

2006-09-24, 2:30 am

Thanks people

I have to hang on a few more hours before I can go to the er or my gf
will be stuck in the middle of the ghetto without a ride... after I
pick her up im off to the ER.

Robert

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:19:00 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:42:45 GMT, Robert
><not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>
>
>Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
>Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
>Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
>Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
>Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
>Robert, I agree with Tom - ER now!
>
>J.
>
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Robert

2006-09-24, 8:25 am

Follow Up.

I did go to the ER but the doctor was pretty sure that I do need some
major dental work... The situation while certainly not unique was in
fact accelerated by the MTX.... If I thought about it before hand I
would have probably not taken it. But then I wont be the first person
with P who clutched at the wrong straw.

Tonight I got 1 gram Of Valtrex and a scrip for 7 days at 3 per day
and I hope that this with the dc of mtx will do the trick... and give
me time to find some social program to help with my denistry.

BTW the Valtrex is good stuff.... After a single Dose I was able to
brush and floss... a major step in maybe breaking this cycle... and
one I hadnt been able to do because of burning...

For informational perposes Il update this thread as I go... with the
warning that if you have really bad teeth you may not want to use MTX.

Thanks for your help.

Robert
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

JXStern

2006-09-24, 4:25 pm

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:24:43 GMT, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>BTW the Valtrex is good stuff.... After a single Dose I was able to
>brush and floss... a major step in maybe breaking this cycle... and
>one I hadnt been able to do because of burning...
>
>For informational perposes Il update this thread as I go... with the
>warning that if you have really bad teeth you may not want to use MTX.

Robert, glad to hear you got it checked out, and wow, I didn't know
that the Valtrex worked that fast!

If you also need dental work, then yes, I guess that could tangle with
the mtx. It will certainly tangle with the Humira, too. You might
find the dentist and/or doctor wants you to take some antibiotics
before having the work done, and after.

These are the dangers, when you turn down the immune system generally
in order to turn down the psoriasis ...

J.

GrandpaChuck

2006-09-24, 4:25 pm

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:47:10 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:24:43 GMT, Robert
><not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>
>Robert, glad to hear you got it checked out, and wow, I didn't know
>that the Valtrex worked that fast!
>
>If you also need dental work, then yes, I guess that could tangle with
>the mtx. It will certainly tangle with the Humira, too. You might
>find the dentist and/or doctor wants you to take some antibiotics
>before having the work done, and after.
>
>These are the dangers, when you turn down the immune system generally
>in order to turn down the psoriasis ...
>
>J.

I am sure you have heard or read "YMMVV."
I have a standing Rx for Valtrex but after having used that for cold
sores and comparing how fast they heal to if I take three 500mg of
lysine per day I have found no appreciable difference. Lysine works
very well for me and is a fraction of the cost of Valtrex.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of September 23, 2006 is TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED. United Kingdom = 118 Other = 117.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.
More than 19,910 Americans wounded.

Nann Bell

2006-09-29, 2:33 am

(I just got back from visiting my mom and discovered I didn't actually post
it after writing it on th 15th.)

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 2:16:46 -0400, Robert wrote
(in message <e3hkg2hap7u2cc8v88pv2h381815uak8pc@4ax.com> ):

> So far not much luck with the folic acid... Im pretty sure these sores
> relate to the MTX as they suddenly got wose after taking it. At any
> rate Folic accid is cheap... just over 2$ for a 3 month supply at 400
> MCG per day.
>
> How long did it take to help you Nann?
>
> Thanks
> Robert

Ah, I should have been more detailed. Folic acid replacement with mtx is
gauged in mgs rather than mcgs. I generally needed 1-2 mgs/day, so that
would be at least 3 of the 400 mcg tabs. I could get by with 1 mg at 15 mg
of mtx, but needed 2 mg of folic acid when I went to 20 mg of mtx.

--
Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Robert

2006-09-30, 2:30 am

Just a quick update.

Cold sores are nearly gone and I think the ER doc is much smarter then
my PCP. Of course my P is back in full force.... no wonder bears use
tree's to scratch.

Robert
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

Robert

2006-10-01, 2:30 am

Furthur Update.

Last night it was about 46F , I had serious pain in both legs. I took
my pa mix and my sleepy/itchy mix... Woke up when for a walk around up
under my computer desk.

A quick quick showed I diddnt do any damage cept now i noticed that Pa
has returned in force to my ankles.

Lucky for me I still have some clinerol which helps at least a bit.

Robert
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

GrandpaChuck

2006-10-01, 4:27 pm

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:31:20 GMT, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>Furthur Update.
>
>Last night it was about 46F , I had serious pain in both legs. I took
>my pa mix and my sleepy/itchy mix... Woke up when for a walk around up
>under my computer desk.
>
>A quick quick showed I diddnt do any damage cept now i noticed that Pa
>has returned in force to my ankles.
>
>Lucky for me I still have some clinerol which helps at least a bit.
>
>Robert
>---
>
>Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

That is a real bummer.
How much Methotrexate are you one and how often do you take it?
You may have mentioned this before and I either missed it or have
forgotten. I refuse to admit it was a senior moment. '-)

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of September 30, 2006 is 2713. United Kingdom = 118 Other = 117.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.
More than 19,910 Americans wounded.

Robert

2006-10-01, 4:27 pm

It was (4) x 2.5mg , (2 days a week).

And it was working.. until i epurpted in cold sores.

Robert

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:25:36 GMT, GrandpaChuck <GrandpaChuck@B4ME.org>
wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:31:20 GMT, Robert
><not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:
>
>
>That is a real bummer.
>How much Methotrexate are you one and how often do you take it?
>You may have mentioned this before and I either missed it or have
>forgotten. I refuse to admit it was a senior moment. '-)
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

GrandpaChuck

2006-10-01, 4:27 pm

That is the dosage I have been on for over two years and have not had
anymore, or less, cold sores than normal. I guess I have been one of
the lucky ones at least for now.

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:46:12 GMT, Robert
<not_safe_to_use_Email@uhuh.com> wrote:

>It was (4) x 2.5mg , (2 days a week).
>
>And it was working.. until i epurpted in cold sores.
>
>Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:25:36 GMT, GrandpaChuck <GrandpaChuck@B4ME.org>
>wrote:
>
>---
>
>Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of September 30, 2006 is 2713. United Kingdom = 118 Other = 117.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.
More than 19,910 Americans wounded.

Robert

2006-10-03, 2:29 am

I had a talk with my Derm Doc and she said it was her fault.... she
forgot about the folic acid... and after some soul searching im back
on the mtx at 20 mg per week and 2 mg of folic acid nightly. If there
is any sign of cold sores im to cd and call asap.

Thanks Nann Good advice all around and Derm agree's with you.

Robert

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:51:23 GMT, Nann Bell
<hanbellGOGATORS@earthlink.net> wrote:

>(I just got back from visiting my mom and discovered I didn't actually post
>it after writing it on th 15th.)
>
>On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 2:16:46 -0400, Robert wrote
>(in message <e3hkg2hap7u2cc8v88pv2h381815uak8pc@4ax.com> ):
>
>
>Ah, I should have been more detailed. Folic acid replacement with mtx is
>gauged in mgs rather than mcgs. I generally needed 1-2 mgs/day, so that
>would be at least 3 of the 400 mcg tabs. I could get by with 1 mg at 15 mg
>of mtx, but needed 2 mg of folic acid when I went to 20 mg of mtx.
---

Klingon Wisdom : Only A Vulcan would fart in an Airlock.