Alzheimers support - Can't Convince Mom to go to Assited Living

Author

Can't Convince Mom to go to Assited Living

rwhaynes@verizon.net

2005-11-29, 5:57 pm

Mom (87) was diagnosed a few years ago with alzheimers. ..but has just
shown memory loss in the passed few years. Now it is hitting hard,
forgetting event, dates, meds, couldn't recall Thanksgiving as having
happened. She has had her car keys taken away by an older sister (who
has power of attorney). Sisters have arranged for Mom to go to Assited
Living, a nice place near both of them, but Mom refuses to leave her
condo. If they have to they will declare Mom incompetent but we don't
want to have to take that route.
Can anyone suggest a method to get Mom (she has visited the place once
and didn't like it despite its country club atmosphere...she felt no
one she knew lived there) INTO Assisted Living? Her friends in her
current condo are alerting us to weird things she has been doing in
the neighborhood ane we fear it is only a matter of time before teh
neighbors call for help.

I know, I know, we are supposed to become the adults to treat the
childlike mind of the elderly....but short of hog-tying a stubborn
grandmother, what can we do? Even if we convince her to go peacefully
today, by tomorrow she will have forgotten whatever we said and
remember that she didn't want to go.

answer by email is fine.

Rich

Tumbleweed

2005-11-29, 5:57 pm

<rwhaynes@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lakpo1dchdmn4a1mm7g287ep2cgd2rkn35@4ax.com...
> Mom (87) was diagnosed a few years ago with alzheimers. ..but has just
> shown memory loss in the passed few years. Now it is hitting hard,
> forgetting event, dates, meds, couldn't recall Thanksgiving as having
> happened. She has had her car keys taken away by an older sister (who
> has power of attorney). Sisters have arranged for Mom to go to Assited
> Living, a nice place near both of them, but Mom refuses to leave her
> condo. If they have to they will declare Mom incompetent but we don't
> want to have to take that route.
> Can anyone suggest a method to get Mom (she has visited the place once
> and didn't like it despite its country club atmosphere...she felt no
> one she knew lived there) INTO Assisted Living? Her friends in her
> current condo are alerting us to weird things she has been doing in
> the neighborhood ane we fear it is only a matter of time before teh
> neighbors call for help.
>
> I know, I know, we are supposed to become the adults to treat the
> childlike mind of the elderly....but short of hog-tying a stubborn
> grandmother, what can we do? Even if we convince her to go peacefully
> today, by tomorrow she will have forgotten whatever we said and
> remember that she didn't want to go.
>
> answer by email is fine.
>
> Rich

We lied to my dad and told him he was going there for a check up and would
be there for a few hours. Only way to do it, there was no way he would have
gone otherwise. Initially made the mistake of telling him he was going there
overnight which he wouldnt do, he plainly refused.

Alternatives you could try would be excuses like moving out for a few days
for decoration, gas leak, etc.

Go out with her like you might do anyway, having already put suitcase with
some clothes and stuff in car without her seeing, then go to home, and act
as if it was all planned, if necessary say '*we* are staying over here
tonight due to the fire/gas leak/redecoration (use whatever she will find
most believable & if it doesnt work wait 5 mins and try again).
Alternatively could you be going for a visit to check it out for a friend?
Then just disappear for a few days? It sounds harsh but you are between a
rock and a hard place, alternative is she burns her condo down or wanders
off at 3 am or something.

As you say there is of course no point trying to persuade her in advance, in
fact I wouldn't even try and persuade her at the time, she probably wont
want to from what you say and even if she does will likely forget a minute
later.

Worst case, if she is taken there forceably she'll forget the trauma by the
next day or maybe the next week. Took my dad about a week to 2 weeks and he
had to be medicated for part of that and he was declared incompetent
('sectioned' in UK terms) to make him stay. It was either that or my mother
would have ended up in a home due to the stress and then he'd have had to
have gone anyway as he couldn't cope by himself. Sounds similar in your case
except the harm is to herself.

FWIW, 2 years on, he still doesnt know where he is. Sometimes, sitting
outside, he'll say 'are we going now'....not sure where he thinks he'd be
going. Dunno whether to laugh or cry...well, mostly I laugh as it would be
too depressing otherwise.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Mary_Gordon@tvo.org

2005-11-30, 12:59 am

Don't ask her. Just do it. She's never going to agree with you. She has
a damaged brain and she has no insight into her own problems and
impairments, let alone that she isn't safe living alone. On top of
that, her memory is damaged, so any kind of change, including new
people, is terrifying, even if she was capable of the logic and
reasoning required to figure out assisted living would be a good thing
for her. Seriously. If you are waiting for her to say "Yes, Rich, I
agree, I should move!!" hell will freeze over first.

She is not going to like anywhere new, period, even if its the Hilton.

Make the booking and get her a room. Talk to the doc about prescribing
some meds just in case she gets wound up so the staff have it if she
needs it. Arrange for her to go visit someone in the family for a
couple of days. While she's out of the way, get other family members to
pack up whatever is needed from her condo, and have it moved to her new
space in assisted living. Get everything all arranged, unpacked, hung,
personalized, decorated etc. so when you bring her there, there is no
fussing at all - her room is 100% ready for her, clothing in the
drawers, hairbrush on the bureau, pictures on the wall. Share a nice
evening meal with her there, have a visit, and go home.

Tell her whatever you think you need to. There is no point to start
cranking her up far in advance and get her all stirred up with
information that will upset her and that she will forget everytime you
tell her. Make up whatever - that its temporary, that she's there for a
holiday, that she's there for an assessment, that her apartment is
being fumigated or painted, she's helping you out by staying there for
a few days or WHATEVER. Tell her she knew all about this but has
forgotten (which would be true even if she agreed to the idea).

Whatever you do, don't get into arguing with her. Its also better to
distract and divert her if she gets on the subject of wanting to go
somewhere else (i.e. better not to make a big deal about it - just be
matter of fact like the discussion has ended and change the subject!).
Just trust that she WILL settle in and adapt, and that in some ways,
her impaired memory and her inability to organize herself to action are
gifts.

Safety trumps everything else. My mother in law actually did say she'd
move, and we immediately lept on that and made all the arrangements -
and of course, she kept forgetting that she'd ever agreed to anything
and we just didn't bother reopening the conversation. We just took care
of everything over a weeks and pulled all the levers behind the
curtain, and then ta-da, we shipped her off to her sisters and when she
came back it was into her nice new room (we kept all the legwork,
decisions, packing, moving etc. far, far away from her).

I know this is so hard, but we were all HUGELY relieved when we finally
had her in her placement since she really, really wasn't safe in her
own place alone, even with tons of hired and family supports and
services (a part time housekeeper, visiting nurses, visiting
physiotherapist, social worker, meals on wheels, family members over
there all the time etc. etc.). The strain was awful.

Mary G.

LindaJean

2005-11-30, 12:59 am

everyone in here is so helpful. This is great advice

LJ
<Mary_Gordon@tvo.org> wrote in message
news:1133312974.685366.36940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Don't ask her. Just do it. She's never going to agree with you. She has
> a damaged brain and she has no insight into her own problems and
> impairments, let alone that she isn't safe living alone. On top of
> that, her memory is damaged, so any kind of change, including new
> people, is terrifying, even if she was capable of the logic and
> reasoning required to figure out assisted living would be a good thing
> for her. Seriously. If you are waiting for her to say "Yes, Rich, I
> agree, I should move!!" hell will freeze over first.
>
> She is not going to like anywhere new, period, even if its the Hilton.
>
> Make the booking and get her a room. Talk to the doc about prescribing
> some meds just in case she gets wound up so the staff have it if she
> needs it. Arrange for her to go visit someone in the family for a
> couple of days. While she's out of the way, get other family members to
> pack up whatever is needed from her condo, and have it moved to her new
> space in assisted living. Get everything all arranged, unpacked, hung,
> personalized, decorated etc. so when you bring her there, there is no
> fussing at all - her room is 100% ready for her, clothing in the
> drawers, hairbrush on the bureau, pictures on the wall. Share a nice
> evening meal with her there, have a visit, and go home.
>
> Tell her whatever you think you need to. There is no point to start
> cranking her up far in advance and get her all stirred up with
> information that will upset her and that she will forget everytime you
> tell her. Make up whatever - that its temporary, that she's there for a
> holiday, that she's there for an assessment, that her apartment is
> being fumigated or painted, she's helping you out by staying there for
> a few days or WHATEVER. Tell her she knew all about this but has
> forgotten (which would be true even if she agreed to the idea).
>
> Whatever you do, don't get into arguing with her. Its also better to
> distract and divert her if she gets on the subject of wanting to go
> somewhere else (i.e. better not to make a big deal about it - just be
> matter of fact like the discussion has ended and change the subject!).
> Just trust that she WILL settle in and adapt, and that in some ways,
> her impaired memory and her inability to organize herself to action are
> gifts.
>
> Safety trumps everything else. My mother in law actually did say she'd
> move, and we immediately lept on that and made all the arrangements -
> and of course, she kept forgetting that she'd ever agreed to anything
> and we just didn't bother reopening the conversation. We just took care
> of everything over a weeks and pulled all the levers behind the
> curtain, and then ta-da, we shipped her off to her sisters and when she
> came back it was into her nice new room (we kept all the legwork,
> decisions, packing, moving etc. far, far away from her).
>
> I know this is so hard, but we were all HUGELY relieved when we finally
> had her in her placement since she really, really wasn't safe in her
> own place alone, even with tons of hired and family supports and
> services (a part time housekeeper, visiting nurses, visiting
> physiotherapist, social worker, meals on wheels, family members over
> there all the time etc. etc.). The strain was awful.
>
> Mary G.
>

Evelyn Ruut

2005-11-30, 12:59 am

"LindaJean" <lppnp@xyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IN7jf.2144$YT3.722@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> everyone in here is so helpful. This is great advice
>
> LJ

Mary is the best :-)

--

Best Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

> <Mary_Gordon@tvo.org> wrote in message
> news:1133312974.685366.36940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>

Pat Stewart

2005-11-30, 12:59 am

I know it's hard, but I absolutely agree with all that has been said here.
You have to just do it. I know, it's lying to your mom and we've all been
taught that it's wrong to do that. First thing you have to do is get over
that idea. We don't call it lying, we call it "loving deceptions".

I've had lots of families that are right where you are on this decision and
I know how hard it is. I've also been there, done that with my own mom.
You have all our sympathy.

Now...Tell her whatever you know will work with her. Gas leak in her
apartment, bugs that need to be exterminated, the whole place is being
repainted, whatever it takes.

It's for her own safety. It's amazing how fast people adjust to new living
situations. Oh, she may be mad at you. She may be angry at you for awhile.
You may not want to get her a phone right away. Where I work, an Assisted
Living for people with dementia, we deal with this ALL THE TIME! Ask for
suggestions from the administration at the A/L. They will probably know the
best thing for your mom.

Yes, do make sure her doctor has prescribed something for anxiety to be
given "as needed" for your mom. It'll help her adjust and it'll make the
move so much more pleasant an experience for all involved.

You have all our best wishes here. Good luck, and I hope you keep coming
back here.

Patty
<rwhaynes@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lakpo1dchdmn4a1mm7g287ep2cgd2rkn35@4ax.com...
> Mom (87) was diagnosed a few years ago with alzheimers. ..but has just
> shown memory loss in the passed few years. Now it is hitting hard,
> forgetting event, dates, meds, couldn't recall Thanksgiving as having
> happened. She has had her car keys taken away by an older sister (who
> has power of attorney). Sisters have arranged for Mom to go to Assited
> Living, a nice place near both of them, but Mom refuses to leave her
> condo. If they have to they will declare Mom incompetent but we don't
> want to have to take that route.
> Can anyone suggest a method to get Mom (she has visited the place once
> and didn't like it despite its country club atmosphere...she felt no
> one she knew lived there) INTO Assisted Living? Her friends in her
> current condo are alerting us to weird things she has been doing in
> the neighborhood ane we fear it is only a matter of time before teh
> neighbors call for help.
>
> I know, I know, we are supposed to become the adults to treat the
> childlike mind of the elderly....but short of hog-tying a stubborn
> grandmother, what can we do? Even if we convince her to go peacefully
> today, by tomorrow she will have forgotten whatever we said and
> remember that she didn't want to go.
>
> answer by email is fine.
>
> Rich

Pat Stewart

2005-11-30, 12:59 am

Karen

2005-11-30, 10:57 am

Great advice from everyone else. We told my MIL we were stopping to pick up
a book and got her back into the secured Alzheimer's area. Yes, she had
tantrums, fits and hysterics but she was not emotionally stable enough to do
it any other way (we had already tried other ways). She did have to be
sedated, but the mixed blessing of the disease is that 3 weeks later she
decided that she had put herself there and everything was okay from that
point. I think a stable environment, regular good meals and regular
medication had a lot to do with her settling down.

It's almost like when you're dealing with a small child. You know they
aren't capable of making their own decisions and remembering them. The
hazard comes when habit takes over and you start responding to her as though
she were still capable of making those decisions. Hubby and I have found
that having 2 people present helps a lot because when she starts to get
agitated with one, the other can introduce a distraction. "Look at that
flower, what kind is it?" "Come see the view out of this window!" and so
forth.

I have to say Alzheimer's has challenged my creative skills more than
anything else I've experienced. I think we all become proficient in glib
fibs because it's necessary.

Karen

<rwhaynes@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lakpo1dchdmn4a1mm7g287ep2cgd2rkn35@4ax.com...
> Mom (87) was diagnosed a few years ago with alzheimers. ..but has just
> shown memory loss in the passed few years. Now it is hitting hard,
> forgetting event, dates, meds, couldn't recall Thanksgiving as having
> happened. She has had her car keys taken away by an older sister (who
> has power of attorney). Sisters have arranged for Mom to go to Assited
> Living, a nice place near both of them, but Mom refuses to leave her
> condo. If they have to they will declare Mom incompetent but we don't
> want to have to take that route.
> Can anyone suggest a method to get Mom (she has visited the place once
> and didn't like it despite its country club atmosphere...she felt no
> one she knew lived there) INTO Assisted Living? Her friends in her
> current condo are alerting us to weird things she has been doing in
> the neighborhood ane we fear it is only a matter of time before teh
> neighbors call for help.
>
> I know, I know, we are supposed to become the adults to treat the
> childlike mind of the elderly....but short of hog-tying a stubborn
> grandmother, what can we do? Even if we convince her to go peacefully
> today, by tomorrow she will have forgotten whatever we said and
> remember that she didn't want to go.
>
> answer by email is fine.
>
> Rich

A R Pickett

2005-12-01, 12:59 am

My dad moved to a "supported independent" apartment about 3 1/2 years ago.
Prior to the move, he was in his home of some 40 plus years, unable to
drive, completely dependent on calling a friend for a ride. My mother was
in a nursing home about 80 miles away. He owned the new apartment, but had
done nothing about furnishing it or making the move.

He has "vascular dementia" as an aftereffect of several TIA's, or mini
strokes, or whatever you want to call them. His five adult children showed
up, rented a truck, packed it, drove to the apartment and unpacked. We
basically took away from him his ability to stay in the house in a kind of
wierd state of suspension. He is MUCH MUCH better off now, he has more
social interaction with alert pleasant neighbors and friends, he can take
the residence shuttle bus to the symphony, to the store, to the barber, etc.

But he still expresses resentment that when he moved, it was not his idea.
He probably has more mid term memory than your mother { his short term
memory is lousy } but he was completely unable to see clearly that where he
was and how he was living was an impossible situation. We needed to take
the situation in hand, and like the ads say "Just do It!" We are all 100%
convinced that we did the right thing.

Good luck and stick around. This is a fantastic group of people and a great
source of help and support.

--
A R Pickett aka Woodstock

"Sometimes the facts threaten the truth"

Amos Oz, prize winning Israeli author

Read my book reviews at:
http://www.booksnbytes.com/reviews/...all_byauth.html

Remove lower case "e" to respond
<rwhaynes@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lakpo1dchdmn4a1mm7g287ep2cgd2rkn35@4ax.com...
> Mom (87) was diagnosed a few years ago with alzheimers. ..but has just
> shown memory loss in the passed few years. Now it is hitting hard,
> forgetting event, dates, meds, couldn't recall Thanksgiving as having
> happened. She has had her car keys taken away by an older sister (who
> has power of attorney). Sisters have arranged for Mom to go to Assited
> Living, a nice place near both of them, but Mom refuses to leave her
> condo. If they have to they will declare Mom incompetent but we don't
> want to have to take that route.
> Can anyone suggest a method to get Mom (she has visited the place once
> and didn't like it despite its country club atmosphere...she felt no
> one she knew lived there) INTO Assisted Living? Her friends in her
> current condo are alerting us to weird things she has been doing in
> the neighborhood ane we fear it is only a matter of time before teh
> neighbors call for help.
>
> I know, I know, we are supposed to become the adults to treat the
> childlike mind of the elderly....but short of hog-tying a stubborn
> grandmother, what can we do? Even if we convince her to go peacefully
> today, by tomorrow she will have forgotten whatever we said and
> remember that she didn't want to go.
>
> answer by email is fine.
>
> Rich

Ruth

2005-12-01, 12:59 am

"Karen" <kk5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11orbihtduj9792@corp.supernews.com...
> Great advice from everyone else. We told my MIL
>snip<

> I have to say Alzheimer's has challenged my creative skills more than
> anything else I've experienced. I think we all become proficient in glib
> fibs because it's necessary.

"Glib fib" - love it. Who knew that Alz caregiving came with its own
vocabulary!

Ruth

Karen

2005-12-01, 12:59 am

Admit it -- haven't you become better at manufacturing quick tales on the
sly and hearing outlandish explanations without batting an eye? My favorite
remains the reason my MIL's house was so messed up.

She didn't make that mess, people were coming in at night while she was
asleep messing her house up. Uh-huh. My mom swore those same people were
coming to her house too. :-)

If she were capable of retaining and utilizing the truth, I would happily
provide it. I tend to think of it as though her memory bowl has shrunk and
she can't retain enough facts to make a judgement, they spill over and are
lost. Argument doesn't work because any progress you may achieve is quickly
forgotten as the bowl spills over.

It was hard to get used to at first because I'm a truthful sort and I felt
like I was lying to her. I realize now that it's simply what it takes to
get the job done in the gentlest way possible for her. For several years
now, she's been on "vacation" and when she tries to come home with us, I
"remind" her that she has paid for the hotel room for the night. It almost
always works.

Karen

"Ruth" <ruth1417@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:zzujf.55300$uC3.8885@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Karen" <kk5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11orbihtduj9792@corp.supernews.com...
>
glib[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> "Glib fib" - love it. Who knew that Alz caregiving came with its own
> vocabulary!
>
> Ruth
>
>

Dennis P. Harris

2005-12-01, 10:57 am

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:16:32 GMT in alt.support.alzheimers,
rwhaynes@verizon.net wrote:

> I know, I know, we are supposed to become the adults to treat the
> childlike mind of the elderly....but short of hog-tying a stubborn
> grandmother, what can we do? Even if we convince her to go peacefully
> today, by tomorrow she will have forgotten whatever we said and
> remember that she didn't want to go.
>
make all the arrangements. have someone take her for a drive
somewhere for the day, and end up at the new place where her
favorite chair, tv, etc. are all waiting.

it's called "loving deception", and it's really kindness.

and email is not OK --- the group is for sharing.

KatelynRain

2005-12-01, 10:57 am

"Dennis P. Harris wrote:

> rwhaynes wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> make all the arrangements. have someone take her for a drive
> somewhere for the day, and end up at the new place where her
> favorite chair, tv, etc. are all waiting.
>
> it's called "loving deception", and it's really kindness.

I agree w/ all who said you will probably have to use trickery...it's the
most common thing in situations like this. But it's not that simple where
assisted living is concerned. Don't know where Rich lives, but in most
states, if not all, signed consent is required by the AL facility in order
to take the new resident. Not so w/ nursing home care, where sig. of POA is
OK. But to get someone into AL, the person moving in must sign consent form
himself/herself.

A lot of people resort to trickery for that too...and let's face it: some
resort to forgery too. I would never advise anyone to break the law, but
it's unfortunate that sometimes life gives us absolutely rotten choices, and
sometimes when one is in a corner, you just have to do "what you gotta do."
Isn't it true? Once you get the sig. on the form, whatever way you do it,
it's no problem. You get the person moved in and if he/she starts hollering
"I want to go home" and "I don't want to be here" the admin. can get around
that. Usually they say something like "Well, just give it a few days Mrs.
Jones and see how you feel" and no matter how much Mom insists, that's the
line they keep feeding her. Sad, but that's how they get around it.

If it comes down to it and you can't get a sig. on the consent form, the
only alternative will be to go to nursing home care w/ POA sig. It's really
unfortunate too because people who really could do pretty well w/ a "looser"
level of intervention are forced into a more stepped up care setting than
they really need, where they will have less independence and it will cost
more too. It stinks, but that's life.

Do your best to get her to sign the consent form, whatever it takes. Tell
her the condo association needs her to sign some papers. Or tell her the
bank needs her to sign this form so extra funds can be transferred into her
savings account. Whatever. Chances are, her reading and/or reading
comprehension is poor enough at this point that she won't uncover the
deception. W/ luck, you'll get her sig. If you're not lucky, you're going to
have to make some hard choices.

Oh and btw...once you get her moved, be prepared for her to beg or demand
she leave w/ you every time you visit for maybe quite a while. It makes
visiting time stink, but eventually she'll adjust and quit talking about
it...or at least quit being so emphatic about it.

Good luck.

~katelyn~

Pat Stewart

2005-12-02, 12:59 am

Not sure where you are Katelyn, but I work at an Assisted Living in
Washington State and we are fine with signatures from POA's. That's not a
problem for us, and you don't have to go a Nursing Home.

It's definitely something to check into before moving her in, but it's never
been a problem under our State regulations.

Patty
"KatelynRain" <RainyKate@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bNFjf.2930$nA2.2697@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Dennis P. Harris wrote:
>
>
>
> I agree w/ all who said you will probably have to use trickery...it's the
> most common thing in situations like this. But it's not that simple where
> assisted living is concerned. Don't know where Rich lives, but in most
> states, if not all, signed consent is required by the AL facility in order
> to take the new resident. Not so w/ nursing home care, where sig. of POA
is
> OK. But to get someone into AL, the person moving in must sign consent
form
> himself/herself.
>
> A lot of people resort to trickery for that too...and let's face it: some
> resort to forgery too. I would never advise anyone to break the law, but
> it's unfortunate that sometimes life gives us absolutely rotten choices,
and
> sometimes when one is in a corner, you just have to do "what you gotta
do."
> Isn't it true? Once you get the sig. on the form, whatever way you do it,
> it's no problem. You get the person moved in and if he/she starts
hollering
> "I want to go home" and "I don't want to be here" the admin. can get
around
> that. Usually they say something like "Well, just give it a few days Mrs.
> Jones and see how you feel" and no matter how much Mom insists, that's the
> line they keep feeding her. Sad, but that's how they get around it.
>
> If it comes down to it and you can't get a sig. on the consent form, the
> only alternative will be to go to nursing home care w/ POA sig. It's
really
> unfortunate too because people who really could do pretty well w/ a
"looser"
> level of intervention are forced into a more stepped up care setting than
> they really need, where they will have less independence and it will cost
> more too. It stinks, but that's life.
>
> Do your best to get her to sign the consent form, whatever it takes. Tell
> her the condo association needs her to sign some papers. Or tell her the
> bank needs her to sign this form so extra funds can be transferred into
her
> savings account. Whatever. Chances are, her reading and/or reading
> comprehension is poor enough at this point that she won't uncover the
> deception. W/ luck, you'll get her sig. If you're not lucky, you're going
to
> have to make some hard choices.
>
> Oh and btw...once you get her moved, be prepared for her to beg or demand
> she leave w/ you every time you visit for maybe quite a while. It makes
> visiting time stink, but eventually she'll adjust and quit talking about
> it...or at least quit being so emphatic about it.
>
> Good luck.
>
> ~katelyn~
>
>

Karen

2005-12-02, 12:59 am

Ditto here, we had a POA and signed the papers for her. Mind you, they had
to put my MIL on the locking Alzheimer's side until she calmed down or else
she would have walked home (small town). But after 3 weeks or so, she
decided it was her idea and calmed down some, then they moved her to the
open AL side. We did have to get letters from 2 doctors stating that she
wasn't competent and provide copies to the AL place. Also, the psychiatrist
that was recommended to us from the AL place was worth gold. He managed her
meds, helped us figure out how to work the paper trail and such. We
couldn't have done it without him.

Have you asked the AL place for pointers? (obviously in a private
conversation) Also, I was told that some places don't require a POA, just 2
letters from examining physicians that the person involved is no longer able
to live alone. But I know it eased our way that we had all the paper in
order.

Karen

"Pat Stewart" <stewartpat@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oUNjf.8011$N45.1876@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Not sure where you are Katelyn, but I work at an Assisted Living in
> Washington State and we are fine with signatures from POA's. That's not a
> problem for us, and you don't have to go a Nursing Home.
>
> It's definitely something to check into before moving her in, but it's
never
> been a problem under our State regulations.
>
> Patty

KatelynRain

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

"Karen" wrote:
> Ditto here, we had a POA and signed the papers for her. Mind you, they
> had
> to put my MIL on the locking Alzheimer's side until she calmed down or
> else
> she would have walked home (small town). But after 3 weeks or so, she
> decided it was her idea and calmed down some, then they moved her to the
> open AL side. We did have to get letters from 2 doctors stating that she
> wasn't competent and provide copies to the AL place. Also, the
> psychiatrist
> that was recommended to us from the AL place was worth gold. He managed
> her
> meds, helped us figure out how to work the paper trail and such. We
> couldn't have done it without him.
>
> Have you asked the AL place for pointers? (obviously in a private
> conversation) Also, I was told that some places don't require a POA, just
> 2
> letters from examining physicians that the person involved is no longer
> able
> to live alone. But I know it eased our way that we had all the paper in
> order.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> "Pat Stewart" wrote:
> never

Oh good! So glad to hear it, and I stand corrected. Either the laws have
changed since I encountered this situation personally, or it's a law limited
to just my state, or possibly some states.

But yes...check into the laws, set up what needs to be done to make the
move, and then set up "The Sting" so to speak. Take her to visit some
friends or family for a few hours, or a ride in the country...something she
will enjoy. Whatever. While you're out w/ her, have a couple of other people
pack up a couple of suitcases of her clothes and toiletries, meds, etc. and
a few familiar, favorite items from home...bedspread, pillows, comfy chair,
lamp, family pics, etc. Have them take them over to the new place and unpack
clothes and set up the brought over items around the room.
You can bring over whatever else she needs in the next week or 2.

When you've been out w/ her a while and you're ready to bring her over, make
up something about wanting to show her some place you want her to see or
people you want her to meet...something along those lines. Take her over,
show her the room w/ her things in it. The staff of these places are usually
experienced w/ this kind of thing and no doubt will help out by creating a
good distraction, most likely getting her into some kind of activity...card
game, crafts project, ice cream social, that sort of thing. Once she seems
sufficiently distracted, make a quiet exit that w/ luck she won't notice.
The staff can take it from there. If she won't be distracted, simply tell
her you want her to "stay there a while" and that you'll "be by a little
later to check on her." And then make a fast getaway even if she creates a
fuss. And yes, she may need something to quiet her. Then stay away for a few
days and give her some time to settle in to something of a routine there
before you go back to visit.

Warning: you will probably feel extremely crummy and guilty after you do
this. Just keep telling yourself that it's for the best for her and that if
there was any other way, you would've done it. Remind yourself as many times
as you need to that really this is an act of love, though at the time it may
feel like an act of betrayal.

~katelyn~

KatelynRain

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

"Karen" wrote:
<snip>
> The next time I warned them that her behavior was erratic about
> something --
> they listened to me. :-)
> MOTTO -- once she is moved in, don't take her back for anything.
> Manufacture any excuse about running late, out of time, out of gas --
> whatever.

I cannot concur w/ this more emphatically. Do NOT under any circumstances
take her back "to see" her old place or whatever way she frames the
request/demand. No good will come of it. She will not feel better seeing
it. She will not be comforted, nor her mind set at rest. All it will do is
confuse her and prolong the adjustment to her new living arrangement. It
will only upset her and she won't want to leave. In summary, Karen is 100%
correct: don't do it for anything.

~katelyn~

Karen

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

I'd have to second this. Hubby and I were both in tears, we were so upset.
Even though we knew it had to be done, even though one of her docs told us
he would call APS if we didn't do something. I know now it was the best
thing we could do for her and my throat still tightens up when I remember
that day. My MIL had a huge tantrum for the next 12 hours and managed to
sustain it through the next few days. She got to a phone and called the
cops that she'd been abducted and was being held against her will, called
several friends screaming incoherently, it was not a pleasant thing. It did
manage to convince a few friends that we were doing the right thing, just by
nature of how she behaved.

A couple of weeks of good balanced meals and regular meds made a world of
difference in her outlook, though. For the next year, whenever we visited,
I kept copies of the doc's letters and photos of how bad her house was and
when she insisted nothing was wrong, I'd show her those. I came to realize
that in her memory, nothing was wrong. If I showed her the letters and
photos, she would quit arguing that she didn't need to be there. And yes, I
had to show them to her several times within one visit but it seemed to help
her see that there was a reason, we weren't just trying to take everything
away from her.

Karen

"KatelynRain" <RainyKate@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xOSjf.2824$Ba6.2380@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
----snip----
> Warning: you will probably feel extremely crummy and guilty after you do
> this. Just keep telling yourself that it's for the best for her and that
if
> there was any other way, you would've done it. Remind yourself as many
times
> as you need to that really this is an act of love, though at the time it
may
> feel like an act of betrayal.
>
> ~katelyn~

Evelyn Ruut

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

"Karen" <kk5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11ovjih9fmj3t2a@corp.supernews.com...
>I just realized I should post a cautionary tale...
>
> We couldn't figure out how to get my MIL out of her small town and nearer
> to
> us, so we left her in the AL place in her town and visited her on
> weekends.
> We did leave permission for a couple that were friends of hers to be able
> to
> take her with them for dinner or shows. At first, this couple tried to
> tell
> us how there wasn't a problem and then we started getting the "evil
> children" routine.
>
> That all changed one day when she talked them into taking her by her house
> to "pick up a few things". We had been cleaning and plowing through the
> piles but it was still a mess and since it was unoccupied, we had
> installed
> a security system and the local cops knew it was supposed to be vacant.
> First, they triggered the alarm which deafened them and called the cops.
> Then, my MIL went hysterical and insisted she wasn't going anywhere
> because
> it was HER HOME. They almost didn't get her back to the AL place.
>
> The next time I warned them that her behavior was erratic about
> something --
> they listened to me. :-)
> MOTTO -- once she is moved in, don't take her back for anything.
> Manufacture any excuse about running late, out of time, out of gas --
> whatever.
>
> Karen

Absolutely correct. No matter what excuses are given, don't do it. You
will NEVER get the person to leave again willingly, no matter how long you
have had them in a new/better situation. It will become a repeat of what
you went through the first time.

When we took my mother in law here, she did bring her strongbox with
important paperwork in it. She took a handful of clothes, but there wasn't
much we could salvage from her clothing. All needed repeated laundering
and were still a mess afterwards with stains set-in, etc.

Her needs were simpler at that point, so we just bought her all new clothes.
Hubby took care of all bill paying, all serious concerns. She would just
obsess and rummage over and over again, so he just took everything from her
and that was that. She soon relaxed and was a great deal happier once her
routine was established, her meds straightened out, she was clean, fed
regular meals, etc.

But we never took her home again, no matter how tempting it was. We hired
someone to look after her while we cleaned and organized everything
ourselves. It took a couple of years to do it, and it was expensive to pay
bills on a house no one lived in, but caregiving and living two hours away,
left us little choice.

--

Best Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

Florence A

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

How true. I still never say I'm leaving..no kisses, hugs , goodbyes. I
leave quietly when he is distracted...
Yesterday he walked me to the door and a worker there knew instinctively
to divert him.
God bless them.
Thanksgiving was at my daughter's house so we avoided all unhappiness.
My kids are good they have also made things happen and taken on the hard
necessary parts ...

Gwen Love

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

Thank God for loving, supportive children!
Gwen

"Florence A" <smada@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4248-43907011-1266@storefull-3318.bay.webtv.net...
> How true. I still never say I'm leaving..no kisses, hugs , goodbyes. I
> leave quietly when he is distracted...
> Yesterday he walked me to the door and a worker there knew instinctively
> to divert him.
> God bless them.
> Thanksgiving was at my daughter's house so we avoided all unhappiness.
> My kids are good they have also made things happen and taken on the hard
> necessary parts ...
>

Evelyn Ruut

2005-12-03, 11:11 am

"Florence A" <smada@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4248-43907011-1266@storefull-3318.bay.webtv.net...
> How true. I still never say I'm leaving..no kisses, hugs , goodbyes. I
> leave quietly when he is distracted...
> Yesterday he walked me to the door and a worker there knew instinctively
> to divert him.
> God bless them.
> Thanksgiving was at my daughter's house so we avoided all unhappiness.
> My kids are good they have also made things happen and taken on the hard
> necessary parts ...

That is wonderful, Florence. I am so glad you are finally having some good
times and peace, knowing he is well cared for and that you have family
support.

When Ida was in the nursing home, we never said we were going home. We
always said Peter had to go to work. She understood that and never argued.

She always asked to go home whenever she first saw us, and we always told
her "in a couple of days" or "when the doctor says you are well enough".
Later it was the "work" story.

--

Best Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')